IVAW goes to the people
Back on March 15th, the Iraq Veterans Against the War partnered with their philosophical brethren, the Veterans For Peace and the Vietnam Veterans Against the War and with the support of the labor unions tried to repeat their performance of the 1971 VVAW’s Winter Soldier. Their goal was to turn back the clock to the 1970s and reestablish the myth that the American soldier (Marine, sailor, airman) is a pathological, unfeeling killer and encouraged by the government to murder innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan indiscriminately.
Despite the huge presence of media types (about 30 different media entities by my estimate), including Al Jeezera and other traditionally anti-US journalists, the image of the American fighting men and women that IVAW was trying to portray just didn’t make it to the public.
It could’ve been because their stories were being fact-checked as they testified and were therefore watered down, or that this time they were being protested against outside their own event. Or it could be that the stories were weak – one commenter on my own blog called the testimony “a wet firecracker”. Whatever the reason, it was a propaganda failure, utterly and completely.
Not only did they fail in this endeavor, but because they’d asked other peace organizations to suspend their activities marking the fifth anniversary of the war in Iraq, those other peace organizations couldn’t assemble more than a thousand people in DC for their own protest later in the week. The whole peace movement suffered because of the IVAW’s inability to deliver on their promise of the final blow against the Bush Administration.
So the IVAW has taken their show on the road around the media directly to college campuses and high schools around the nation. This afternoon, Adam Kokesh spoke in Oakland, CA at the Federal Building, at Marin College and at local high schools. Two more spoke at Perdue University earlier in the week. They’re insinuating themselves into every issue on local TV programs. They’re “counter-recruiting” with Texas students.
Back in March, Evan Knappenberger, the lunatic who threatened to “blow up” Gathering of Eagles events and issued a “fatwa” on the life of Michelle Malkin, talked to high school students about his experiences in the war. Can you imagine this sociopath talking to your own children?
Two IVAW members even held an art show in Vermont depicting images of the war as they’d like us to think as what they saw in the war. As if there was a shortage of cameras to bring back actual images.
VFP and IVAW are still in the game, too;
Sandy Kelson, VFP, who organized two weeks of outreach at Ft. Stewart Army base, which is home to roughly 19,000 soldiers, of which approximately 15,000 are currently deployed, talked about direct outreach at the base. In February, 2008, he and others, stood at a traffic light right before the entrance and distributed 500 copies of “Sir, No Sir!”, the Dave Zieger film about GI resistance during Vietnam, and 385 copies of “The Ground Truth”, a film documenting resistance by the military against the war in Iraq, as well as 1300 packets of leaflets, including VFP and IVAW applications, Appeal for Redress, GI Rights pocket cards, and other materials. Sometime after they did this outreach they discovered that the PX and other locations on the base were discussing the materials that they had delivered.
Thus Spake Ortner at The Sniper discovered the IVAW’s intention to testify in front of a Congressional committee next week to counter General Petreaus’ testimony last month – from veterans who haven’t been in the theater since General Petreaus took command. As it stands right now, both TSO and I intend to team up again and attend these festivities like we did at Winter Soldier to bring you the unvarnished truth.
I guess the point of all this is that the battle for the minds of the people against this insidious campaign to pervert the truth and turn Americans against our returning soldiers, is not over and it may have just begun. We’ve scored some significant victories in the last 14 months, but the battle continues.
Crossposted at Eagles Up! Talon
Category: Antiwar crowd, Bloggers, Iraq Veterans Against the War, Phony soldiers, Politics, Society, Support the troops
I always get a sick feeling in my stomach about what IVAW is doing. I sympathize with their members, because many of them suffered during the Iraq war (of course many people would, as it’s a war, and war is hell right?). But they seem to be completely exploited by these opportunistic types who still think it’s 1968. A sad reality.
Friends,
On the surface, one could view the IVAW US House Congressional Progressive Caucus appearance as a hoax or wishful thinking…..unfortunately, the US House of Representatives has an insatiable appetite for the bizarre so it’s probably true.
The IVAW testimony amounts to little more than, and about as objectionable, as warm spit. The circus (caucus) is nothing more than a left-wing, liberal, biased, anti-America sounding board for whacko, whimpering, sniveling people who will resort to any level to bring discredit on America, our troops, and families.
Take a look at the organizations that supports the Congressional Progressive Caucus (Circus)……does this give you an idea of the 70 or so Congressional membership on this caucus(circus) and how they spend their time?
“An array of national progressive organizations will work to support the efforts of the caucus, including the Institute for Policy Studies, The Nation magazine, MoveOn.org, National Priorities Project, Jobs with Justice, Peace Action, Americans for Democratic Action, and Progressive Democrats of America. Also co-sponsoring the kickoff event were the NAACP, ACLU, Progressive Majority, League of United Latin American Citizens, Rainbow/PUSH Coalition, National Council of La Raza, Hip Hop Caucus, Human Rights Campaign, Association of Farmworker Opportunity Programs, and the National Hip Hop Political Convention. The CPC has long maintained cordial ties with the Democratic Socialists of America, which hosted its website during the 1990s.”
The eyes and ears of thousands will be reviewing closely every word spoken by IVAW testifiers since, according to IVAW press release, the Congressional testimony is billed as being under “oath”. A few calls for “proof” (date, time, place, witnesses, leadership, and unit involved) would be appropriate…generalities may be satisfying to a gullible media or politically correct congress, but when our warriors and nations policy is potentially defamed, distorted, only facts and credible evidence is acceptable.
There was nothing of substance reported at the WSII National Labor College event so we can expect the IVAW tilted crystal ball to fabricate additional fantasy, if this appearance actually occurs.
I took part in Eagles Muster back on March 15 because I was a part of the generation of Vietnam Era Veterans who were maligned by the original Winter Soldier “testimony” and I do not want this present generation of warriors maligned by the leftists and their exploitation of the malcontents.
Most of these people a moral relativists who believe that the end justifies the means and they will do anything in their power to bring their communist utopia to America. The “peace” movement has it’s roots in Marxism. Their true agenda is not about “peace”, it’s about tearing down our country!
RV
Anyone who can say the testimony those brave men and women of IVAW gave “amounts to warm spit” were not there and/or have not viewed the testimony themselves nor have they read of the vetting process that was used to verify the testifier’s statements. You may call it lies and the testifiers liars all you like but the words those people spoke rang true and are verifiable. I have always wondered at the way that pro War folks want to talk about patriotism as if it means allowing your nation to commit crimes against it’s neighbors, proudly. For many decades we led the world in human rights promotion, but with torture, Guantanamo and secret prisons we don’t have a right to speak anymore. We call down and depose Hussein for being a tyrant yet tolerate a President who ignores whatever laws he wishes and writes in exceptions of over 750 new laws simply to accrue more and more power to the executive. When did it become patriotic to become as our worst enemies? I find it quite amusing that RV speaks of means justifying the ends. If you support this illegal occupation of Iraq you’ll have a good job to explain to me how current policies represent anything different. In 1998 the NeoConservatives published and launched the “Plan for the New American Century” or PNAC. Look it up on the web. Their every move since has been to make that plan a reality and 4000 US and 1.2 million Iraqi deaths later the means that are being used are rightly a matter of International concern. I cannot imagine the mental gymnastics that allow an individual to support ANY person or entity who commits horrible crimes against his/her people and neighbors simply for it’s own gain. The USA supposedly took out Hussein for things the USA is doing daily! Why is it better when we do it? Why do we hang them for war crimes and give our people medals for doing the SAME THING? No, I am not saying Saddam was a good guy. I know he was a terrible… Read more »
Mal,
Then you should absolutely sign the petition and urge EVERY one of those like minded to yourself to do so as well.
If such crimes ARE being committed, they cannot be tolerated.
If the charges are baseless then those placing them should be exposed as the crapbags that they are.
Mad Mal Says:
If you support this illegal occupation of Iraq…
Typical leftist lies.
Here’s the truth:
The US Senate voted 77-23 to authorize the president to use force in Iraq.
The US Congress voted 296-133 to authorize the president to use force in Iraq.
Those weren’t close votes, they were overwhelming margins that granted the President the authorization to finish the job in securing Iraq.
rochester_veteran:
“Authorizing use of force” is NOT the same as a declaration of war.
We went to war to enforce a United Nations resolution. Anyone who has fought for this country–and taken the oath to defend the Constitution of the United States–is justified in their outrage at the subversion of our Constitution to UN authority.
Jonn, to demonstrate where the war is illegal, one need only understand that the Constitution is the highest law of the land…and going to war in violation of the Constitution is therefore illegal.
Nowhere in Mal’s comment did she disclose her political leanings. That you classified her as a “leftist” is an act of convenience, not conviction.
Jonn wrote: “”Authorizing use of force” is NOT the same as a declaration of war.” Now that’s “an act of convenience”. What do you understand “use of force” to mean? Standing on the border with Kuwait and shaking our fists? Oh, and I didn’t call Mal a “leftist” did I? You’re not nearly as brilliant as you think.
Harry, thanks for the video statement you gave during the Winter Soldier testimony at Silver Spring: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzJhIylMpWI (comments welcome)
If only all of your GOE members could be so professional and follow your example as they go speaking about their passionately held beliefs. The same goes for us peace mongers too. As I showed your statement to many of my pro-peace friends, I was surprised to hear some of them mention that they thought your group was the same group that was going to the military funerals and cruelly disrupting the ceremonies. We both know that isn’t true. I also hear from the pro-war crowd accusations that VeteransForPeace members are the ones disturbing the funerals. That isn’t true either. I’ll do my part to stop this disinformation, and I trust that you will too.
Back to Winter Soldiers, thanks for being there with your members and graciously providing your statement to me on video as you protested our presence outside. We disagree about many many things, but I felt that despite that, we could probably sit down together, have a beer and have some interesting conversions about politics.
As far as I know, none of the testimony given has been proven false. I was proud to be there and support these Veterans, not because I “hate” America, but because I want to do what is right. Take care,
Gordon
“Jonn wrote: You’re confused, Mal. What those IVAW members are doing is no where near “brave”. Brave is having the courage to rid the world of evil, not defending evil.” I think you need to keep your apples and oranges straight JOnn. Torture is evil. Corruption is evil. Waste is at best stupid and at the level it is taking place could easily be deemed evil. These soldiers stood against those things. I call that brave, I most certainly do. The Constitution states that any treaty the USA ratifies is the supreme law of the land (Art 6.2) and the Nuremberg Accords are such a treaty as well as the Geneva Conventions. The Nuremberg Accords definitions indicate the actions the USA has undertaken in regard to Iraq as “Aggressive war” amongst other things and that is a breach of the Accords, therefore it is also a breach of US Law. That makes the invasion and occupation of Iraq illegal on their face. The Geneva Conventions describe acts that an invading/occupying entity must perform such as rebuilding of any damaged infrastructure and ensuring adequate food, water and shelter are available to the occupied population and the USA has utterly failed to do so. Look under the portion that refers to the laws of “usufruct”. I will direct your attention to http://www.veteransagainsttorture.com/Lancet/Lancet.htm Extrapolation of this number of casualties over the period since it was written and other subsequent studies place this number at over 1 million. “I was there at the Winter Soldier Theater, and it amounted to warm spit.” I was there too Jonn. What I saw, all 3 days of it, was far more than warm spit but nobody needs to take either of our word for it. Even a casual perusal of the videos available by going to YouTube.com or IVAW.org can dissuade a person from the idea that this testimony had nothing to it. I will leave you be to call me names and such without actually rebutting my statements now. Jonn wrote: Have I called you names yet? Be very careful…if I’m accused of doing something I… Read more »
The “leftist” rebuttal was aimed at rochester_veteran.
My understanding of “use of force” is irrelevant when you classify our present situation in Iraq as war. If we are able to go to war to enforce UN resolutions, how can you NOT be outraged at the subversion of our Constitution? Equating “use of force” with “war” sounds rather Orwellian to me.
I accept your acknowledgment of my brilliance and thank you for your candor.
Jonn wrote: “The “leftist” rebuttal was aimed at rochester_veteran.” No, it was aimed at me. Read your comment.
Ah, I see, then you do indeed consider standing on the border of Kuwait shaking our fist at Hussein the limit of “use of force”. Not equating “war” with “use of force” is childish and willful ignorance.
Yeah, I think you’re a real rocket surgeon.
Hey Gordo, we have a People’s Warrent for your Citizen’s Arrest for the crime of treason.
Why should you nutcases have all the fun?
Let me know how you VVAW wackos make out with your citizen arrest warrants against Bush and Cheney.
JONN, Winter Soldier 2.1 (Winter Soldier 2 was held October 71) is better described as a fumble by the IVAW on their own 1 yard line.
Jonn wrote: It’s not really a fumble if they never had possession of the ball.
Gordo,
” I also hear from the pro-war crowd accusations that VeteransForPeace members are the ones disturbing the funerals. ”
But VFP are psychologically torturing the wounded at Walter Reed. They have set up funeral wreaths up out side the main sign at WRAMC, while displaying a coffin. And VFP leader John Grant gives a speech with that as a prop. Kevin McCarron, a VFP leader, persoanally displays a “Maimed For A Lie” or “Enlist here And Die For halliburton” sign to the wounded arriving in stretcher bus from Andrews AFB
You clowns repeat the PTSD matra all the time yet nobody has a clue that those props are harmful? Of course you don’t, because supporting the troops isn’t your cause. Those props make sense only when your cause is something OTHER than supporting the troops. That’s why you use those and don’t give a damn about it’s effect on the wounded.
From the War Powers Act of 1973
INTERPRETATION OF JOINT RESOLUTION
SEC. 8. (a)
Authority to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities or into situations wherein involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances shall not be inferred–
(1)
from any provision of law (whether or not in effect before the date of the enactment of this joint resolution), including any provision contained in any appropriation Act, unless such provision specifically authorizes the introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities or into such situations and stating that it is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of this joint resolution; or
(2)
from any treaty heretofore or hereafter ratified unless such treaty is implemented by legislation specifically authorizing the introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities or into such situations and stating that it is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of this joint resolution.
The Joint Resolution that was overwhelmingly passed by both Houses did in fact authorize President Bush to use military force and a State of War already existed at the time of the Resolution.
It’s not an illegal war and…
I accept your acknowledgment of my brilliance…
You seem to think quite highly of yourself, a legend in your own mind, so to speak.
Um, I wrote the comment. No worries, though. Give it a few moments and I’m certain you’ll understand.
Go ahead and equate “use of force” with “war” if you want, I respect your right to do so. But please, don’t put words into my mouth or jump to ridiculous conclusions about me. Your binary approach to foreign policy may make sense to you and others like Ray, but as yet you’ve offered *nothing* of substance to back up your conclusions.
“Yes, you stick to your conveniently extrapolated statistics. ” Conveniently extrapolated statistics eh? The BASE study calls it 1,000,000 conservatively! What are you saying here? Please don’t bother me with the facts? The research done by the WORLDs most reputable medical journal? That’s not a worthy response. The reason the mainstream ignored WSII was because the most monolithic media ownership ever in history decided it would not engage the topic, not because of lack of impact. Whoever said that media was liberal didn’t look up who owns it and what they have said publicly about their support of the Bush/PNAC agenda. You keep mentioning nobody who’d been in combat would think this stuff anything but pedestrian. I must ask you to clarify- does that mean such acts of corruption or assault or denigration of opposition prisoners or infliction MST are so commonplace and accepted that they are no big deal or did the delivery of testimony on these things seem lackluster? (for those not in the know MST stands for Military Sexual Trauma, the latest politically correct way to refer to rape of female (and sometimes male) soldiers) You admit these people mostly did not lie, so…? Jonn wrote: The Lancet numbers have been disputed by nearly every serious group of scholars – excluding Lancet, of course. But like I said, you believe what you want. Do you think that shooting 200 rounds of .50 cal into a building is an atrocity? Do you think because one marine (Turner) said he had a “choking hand” (not that he ever choked anyone with it) is an atrocity? Have you asked yourself why Adam Kokesh suddenly became anti-war when he was busted for smuggling an Iraqi pistol back from his first tour and was denied a second request to return? Is KBR firing bean bag rounds at Iraqis to keep them away from US property is an atrocity? I heard not one atrocious thing the whole time I sat in that room. Neither did you – you made it so in your mind, because that’s what you wanted to believe. You were… Read more »
Damn man, what smells like hippie in here?
I feel for you guys, I really do, but the 60’s are over, and you aren’t kids anymore. Find something new to do than bemoan the media and smoke dope. You know, get a hobby. But make it an old person hobby because I really don’t want to run into you in the club or the pub.
Maybe badminton?
rochester_veteran (not Jonn):
Fine, except that there’s a pesky document called the Constitution that, as the highest law of the land, supercedes the War Powers Act.
Then again, some people (like ol’ Bushie) think the Constitution is just a “G D piece of paper.” Are you in that crowd?
Perhaps learned Juris Doctor Allen Woods, you could tell us what part of the Constitution is violated by the War Powers Act, and then go into great length to discuss how the Supreme Court is in fact wrong on this case, but right on Roe v Wade etc which you cherish.
Looking forward to it. And don’t skimp on the law, I have a law degree and am eager to whip it out.
BTW- Case meaning instance, like not taking up a challenge to the WPA, not case as in legal case or case name.
Since it has been ruled unconstitutional by you and no one in authority, I presume you are the chief legal body in the land now.
A Declaration of War has not been enacted since 1942. Congress has chosen to authorize the president to use force by “A Joint Resolution.” There’s been no rulings by the Supreme Court that have declared these “Joint Resolutions” unconstitutional, has there?
Then again, some people (like ol’ Bushie) think the Constitution is just a “G D piece of paper.” Are you in that crowd?
You’re BDS’ing is quite unbecoming of you. Take it up with Congress then or better yet, get a case going to the Supreme Court to decide the matter.
I happen to admire President Bush, he made the right call on this and did his job as CiC. We haven’t been attacked since 9/11/2001 and have the Islamofascist terrorist reeling and in disarray. We did what needed to be done.
“Your binary approach to foreign policy may make sense to you and others like Ray”
What you fail to realize is that you are the one with a Black or White view, whereas John, RV and others realize that simple answers don’t answer complex questions. “Withdraw all our troops from around the world” is a simplistic and flawed concept.
Jonn/Ortner,
Is it just me or does talking to hippies and moonbats resemble being in a real live “Dead Parrot Sketch” from Monthy Python?
Jonn wrote: Close. I wonder where they all went? They were all so damn smart yesterday.
“Jonn wrote: Close. I wonder where they all went?”
Pajama Party at the Code Pink House.
OK, you are getting your wish. Folks who testify in this fashion are sworn, are they not? *** Congress has heard from politicians, pundits, and generals, but not, up to this point, from the average boots-on-the-ground soldier. On May 15th, Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) and the Congressional Progressive Caucus (CPC) begin the process of righting this imbalance with Winter Soldier on the Hill. Nine members of IVAW will testify under oath before the CPC about rules of engagement, the killing and abuse of civilians, the use of drop weapons, and the true consequences of the “surge.” Winter Soldier on the Hill will allow the US Congress to be more fully informed about the situation in iraq through soldiers’ eyewitness accounts of the on-going military occupation, while they debate (more than likely for the last time during the Bush-Cheney administration) the funding for U.S. military operations in Iraq. Who: Iraq Veterans Against the War & The Congressional Progressive Caucus What: Winter Soldier on the Hill – An Open Forum When: 15 May 2008 9:30 am – 12:30 pm Where: 2261 Rayburn House Office Building THE POINT IS NOT TO PHYSICALLY COME TO DC. JUST CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN AFTER YOU READ THIS!! Winter Soldier on the Hill testifier bios Jason Lemieux: Originally from Tupper Lake, New York, Jason Lemieux served as an Infantryman with the Third Battalion, Seventh Marines. He served three tours in Iraq, serving in Karbala, Husaybah and Ramadi. He was honorably discharged from Active Duty with a Good Conduct Medal and a Combat Action Ribbon on July 9, 2006. Lemieux will testify on loose rules of engagement, the killing of innocent civilians, and the hiding of these killings through falsified reports and cover-ups. Scott Ewing: Originally from Providence, Road Island, Scott Ewing took a leave of absence from Brown University in 2004 to enlist in the army as a cavalry scout. He deployed to Iraq with the Third Armored Cavalry Regiment in March of 2005. He has been awarded a ?Karen T. Romer Undergraduate Research and Teaching Assistantship to do research on the culture of recruiting in… Read more »
I read all this with great interest. The reality is this: Despite their Commander In Chief having the lowest rating of any president in recent history and despite polls of Americans saying their confidence in American leadership is at the lowest in memory, the war/occupation goes on. Despite their bunker mentality, the Bush Gang still holds the reins of power and, thus, can keep the war going — given an ineffectual majority of Democrats in Congress. So naturally GOE folks like our friends, here, are cocky in their mission to debunk the antiwar/peace movement, a movement that shares much with the Greek figure Cassandra, a prophet doomed to speak the truth and not be listened to. But the Truth has a way of catching up to raw Power
Jonn wrote: Yeah, you’re a regular Socrates, Grant. The whole point is this; you haven’t been in Iraq for nearly five years…what could you possibly have to say that is relevant to the discussion?
As I was saying…
Truth has a way of catching up to raw Power. Of course it is not fast enough for most of us on the Left, but we’re already seeing the shifts, and the appearance of groups like the GOE and their claims that the peace movement is “stabbing our troops in the back” only underline that reality. We know who bamboozled us into this war, and it wasn’t the peace movement. Winter Soldier: Iraq and Afghanistan was a magnificent, truth-telling effort, a group of young soldiers sent off in the name of the American people to invade and occupy a major Arab nation coming home to tell of their experiences in that occupation. Whether the war is “legal” or not, or whether they were recounting “atrocities” or not is irrelevant to the nature of the testimony. The much-polled fact is a vast majority of Americans are fed up with this war, its delusions and all the propaganda and secrecy that supports it. Once the Bush bunker is finally emptied and hosed out, air will enter into the realm of debate. In the meantime, we do need to be vigilant.
Jonn wrote: Like I was saying…You’re a real Socrates.
Jonn,
I wonder if this is the John Grant that sat through 7 hours and 43 minutes of a Hugo Chavez speech and raved that every second of it was magnificant?
That John Grant in addition to being a Chavista, at West Chester we call him “Baby Hugo”.
He’s also a VVAW puke, but to ashamed to ever be seen in VVAW regalia. Something about being despised by all other veterans groups it seems.
And IVAW isn’t IVAW, it’s VVAW Junior Varsity.
I noticed the argument that if you’re not a combat vet and/or you haven’t been in Iraq in the last x years, your view point or even evidence means less or will be entirely discounted. Does this count for both sides?
Jonn wrote: Let me explain this so you can understand. The veterans who haven’t been in theater for two years+ are going to the Congressional Progressive Caucus to counter the progress report Congress got from General Petreaus. Now since the General’s report covered the period from September to March and none of these folks were in Iraq during that period, how can their “testimony” be relevant? John Grant hasn’t been in Iraq since 2003, so how is his mindless drivel about when he was a colonel’s driver five years ago germane to the discussion? I hope that was clear enough.
Jonn,
John Grant, VFP Philly and VVAW embarassed was at WS 2.1.
Too bad the VVAW Gestapo SS (Security Service) didn’t let you independent bloggers talk to anyone. Even the VFP National President (also VVAW embarassed) was a red shirt at WS 2.1.
Jonn wrote: I met Mr. Grant on my YouTube channel. He’s an arrogant, pompous, self-centered, pseudo-intellectual sociopath.
JONN, JONN, JONN…..Marsha..
“I know the VFP and VVAW are getting pretty upset that they’ve been branded lying bastards (because they associate with lying bastards)…”
Associate??? VFP is the rock under which the VVAW cockroaches hide.
VFP’s leadership and it’s most active traitors are VVAW. National President Elliot Adams is VVAW, but on the VFP website, not a word. David Cline, immediate past President, VVAW too and was Bill Davis.
Scott “Let’s Asssinate Congress” Camil goes around wearing VFP colors as does John “On The Road Like Bob Hope But I Smear Not Enetertain the Troops” Beitzel likewise hides in his VFP PJs.
VFP = VVAW Stalking Horse.
In the Delaware Vally (Philly) a breakaway from VFP calls themselves Delaware valley Veterans For America. I suspect VFA is a Bobby Muller plaything when he’s not making plans plans to honor Ho Chi Minh’s grave.
Jonn wrote: I met Mr. Grant on my YouTube channel. He’s an arrogant, pompous, self-centered, pseudo-intellectual sociopath.
I’ve met Mr. Grant in real life – see him every week in West Chester – and he is exactly the same outside of YouTube.
Here is a link one of my YouTube videos higlighting how John and associates behave in West Chester:
Wow. You guys need a life. I know Raoul and he is a devout slanderer. I expected this would flush him out. Yes, I went to Venezuela and yes I sat through a long Chavez TV show and, yes, the man’s endurance and intelligence did impress me. The point was not Chavez worship but to learn something; ie. that the US has its hands full and needs to deal with Chavez in a different, more intelligent, less militarist way than it has. I do not expect someone like Raoul Deming to get that. I’m used to his attacks; he seems incapable of debate. Jonn, I’m not sure where you get your information, but I have never been a “colonel’s driver.” You are right that I was in Iraq in 2003 and 2004 — as a veteran/civilian observer, trips in which I learned a lot that still has value. You guys seem to just make stuff up — it’s incredible. Finally, to suggest General Petraeus’ report was somehow objective and that anyone who has not been in Iraq during the last 10 minutes has no credence to discuss the matter is simply nonsense. We all have many sources, and some of us sociopath Socratic types read a range of things on the topic. The general running an occupation like ours in Iraq cannot be the sole source of information. While it is clear he’s a brilliant man, it’s also clear his report is self-serving. What’s he gonna say other than we’re making progress? The facts are much more complex and citizens need to hear a better debate. Jonn wrote: Yes, I got you confused with the other IVAW member I had contact with yesterday, Millard. So you weren’t a colonel’s driver – small point, very small, tiny, insignificant point. The rest remains true. I didn’t discount your testimony because you hadn’t been in Iraq in the last ten minutes. I discounted your testimony because you weren’t in Iraq for even a minute of the period on which General Petreaus was testifying to Congress – that period being September to March. What… Read more »
Jonn,
You can discount John Grant’s Iraq “testimony” because he was there with Code Pink. He’ll show his lack of intergrity by splitting hairs and say with a staright face that he was with Global Exchange. Code Pink = Medea Benjamin and Global Exchange = Medea Benjamin. And when Medea reported out on that trip, her byline was Code Pink not Global Exchange.
John Grant,
Why don’t you send Ortner and Jonn the video/audio of your appearance on Chavez’s “Alo Presidnete” show? That would be an interesting window into your diseased America hating soul. Just let the sunshine in, send them that video/audio and let them make up their own minds about you.
Ortner,
The 60’s are over, Woodstock is now a condo development, the remaining Weathermen have sold out to The Man in exchange for tenure. All the hippies like Grant have left is Sex, Drugs and Geritol.
“I expected this would flush him out”
Really Grant, as I was here long before you were, it would seem your the one getting flushed.
“he seems incapable of debate”
Tell us again how your participation in the protest at WRAMC where you gave your screed using black funeral wreaths and a coffin as stage props.
I believe Syke’s post above is the YouTube record of your previous lies on the subject.
Jonn, I hope this is coherent. Your absolute reliance on Petraeus for information is very narrow. We’ve gone from fighting Sunni insurgents to fighting against one Shiite faction (Sadr’s militias) in hopes of blasting them out of the running for the October elections. Pre-election campaigning by aerial warfare! Maybe we ought to try it here. And the funny part, Jonn, is the Iranians are lovin’ every minute of it, since they’re tight with Hakim and the Maliki government and slammin’ Sadr too. But, then, I suppose you’re all for increasing regional conflagration and for Bush to attack Iran as his last mad act from the bunker. It’s your blog so I’ll leave it at that. Adios.
Jonn wrote: I don’t depend on General Petreaus as my only source. Not as long as I have Bill Roggio, Michael Yon, Blackfive, and the Milblog community. But, you’re short-sighted and your worldview is so immature that you don’t think we should defend ourselves. We’ve been at war with the islamic Republic for thirty years, but only recently have we had the opportunity to start killing them. You’re right, I think we should put the mullahs out of business before they become a world-wide threat. But nothing I can say can convince you because you’ve found your niche among the hairy-legged hippie chicks. As long as you can appeal to their own undeveloped and emotional worldview, you’ll always have an audience. But I’m sorry, that’s no way to run a foreign policy
“Pre-election campaigning by aerial warfare! Maybe we ought to try it here.”
With your friend Chavez being so tight with FARC, I’m surprised Veterans For Peace Chapter 31 hasn’t tried it already.
Fear of flying Grant?
I was Honorably Discharged 29 years ago and this sh!t is still going on with Iran. It’s ironic that the lefties do their best to demonize President Bush and the US Military in the call to liberate 57 million people and lead them to freedom and self-determination. We currently have the biggest threat to Middle-Eastern Peace and our sworn enemies, Iran, surrounded. How is this a dumb move?
John Grant, why would you cavort witha marxist dictator such as Chavez and not be in agreement with him? Is this some sort of intel mission you’re on?
Grant’s Denialpalooza – Enjoy!
Guys,
To understand Grant you have to remember, he’s V.V.A.W. who says that Winter Soldier “was a good thing” and that he’s “proud of it”.
RochesterVet said we desire to “liberate 57 million people and lead them to freedom and self-determination”
Please tell me you all have a better understanding of foreign policy than that.
If that is really what people believe than we really are going down the rabbit hole.
You really gotta get out of Rochester more brother.
Lets think about these quotes for a moment. Politics is once again more important than what is right. Dems and Repubs both play the political game, not the “what is right and good” game. “You can support the troops but not the president.” –Rep Tom Delay (R-TX) “Well, I just think it’s a bad idea. What’s going to happen is they’re going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years.” –Joe Scarborough (R-FL) “Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?” –Sean Hannity, Fox News, “[The] President . . . is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation’s armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy.” –Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) “If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy.” –Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of George W Bush “I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning . . I didn’t think we had done enough in the diplomatic area.” –Senator Trent Lott (R-MS) “I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our over-extended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started… Read more »
Seems “Anonymous” has nothing to say for “Anonymous”.
I’ll take their advice when they quote “Anonymous”…