Does the Second Amendment Protect Only White Gun Owners? | American Civil Liberties Union
The ACLU has become so caustic with their Anti-Trump nonsense nobody pays attention to their Grand Standing even when they talk about something that does need to be fixed.
I have said that the more people we have carrying guns the more incidents we are going to have because of it. That seems like common sense to me.
It’s nearly impossible to cut out the Literary Lepracey that the Libtarded spew when writing about something. It is shameful they cannot control themselves, particularly when they try to discuss a legitimate issue.
The most common refrain from gun rights supporters in the wake of mass shootings or other gun violence is that the best response to a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Yet in recent weeks, we have seen two Black men, a group already disproportionately victimized by police use of lethal force, shot and killed by police while protecting those around them with guns they were legally allowed to carry.
It turns out that not only are unarmed African-Americans more likely to be shot, but those who seek to follow the advice of the National Rifle Association and others to arm themselves may only make themselves more vulnerable. It is especially troubling that gun rights proponents have largely been silent when police kill Black people for lawfully using their guns.
For example, the NRA and President Trump — despite their embrace of the social media bullhorn — have not condemned the police for killing unarmed Black people. Moreover, they have yet to denounce police officers who kill Black people for possessing guns they’re legally entitled to carry.
The police killings of legally armed Black citizens, and the refusal of leading gun-rights proponents to sincerely defend the victims, raises the same troubling question that both Martin Luther King Jr. and the Black Panther Party also confronted when they tried to exercise their rights to bear arms: In practice, do Second Amendment rights protect only white gun owners?
The most recent example is Emantic Fitzgerald Bradford, Jr., a former Army recruit and a licensed firearm owner in Alabama, an open-carry state. The police department has yet to release the video of the incident, but we now know that Bradford was carrying his gun at a mall on Thanksgiving night when someone else began shooting — the kind of situation where gun proponents often claim that being armed will save the day.
Bradford responded by drawing his gun and “directing shoppers to safety,” reported The New York Times. But when the police arrived, witnesses say they shot him “within milliseconds.” The police department initially asserted that Bradford was the mall shooter and lauded his killer as a hero.
But it was wrong.
The department has since admitted this statement was “not totally accurate” in at least two ways. First, the officer shot the wrong man, and the mall shooter was actually still at large. Next, police admitted that Bradford had not “brandished” the gun but simply had it in his hand when officers approached. An independent autopsy has revealed that Bradford was shot three times from behind.
President Trump has had nothing to say about this tragedy. The most to come from the NRA is spokesperson Dana Loesch tweeting her surprise that the police have refused to release the bodycam footage. But even that statement took more than a week. As Black Alabamans and racial justice allies protested in the days following Bradford’s death, the organization said nothing about the reality of race in America or about how Black men are denied the right to bear arms that others enjoy.
Instead of acknowledging Bradford, a real-life good guy with a gun, it tweeted a quote from its executive vice president, Wayne LaPierre: “To preserve our values and protect our freedom, America needs the good guys to step up like never before.”
And Bradford’s death isn’t even an isolated incident.
Just two weeks prior, police officers killed Jemel Roberson, a Black security guard and registered gun owner, who responded when several men began shooting at the Illinois nightclub where he worked. When the police arrived, Roberson was doing his job: He legally had his gun out and had subdued one of the men with his knee in the man’s back.
It didn’t matter.
The officers shot and killed Roberson, even as witnesses warned them he was a security guard. Roberson has widely been lauded as a hero, and even the police department later conceded Roberson was “a brave man who was doing his best to end an active shooter situation.”
But again, gun rights proponents have been quiet.
When Philando Castile was killed in 2016 after telling the police officer who stopped his car that he had a gun and a license to carry one — the recommended procedure for announcing the presence of a gun to an officer — gun rights advocates were again silent. The NRA said nothing about Castile’s case for more than a year.When Loesch finally did offer a statement, she stopped short of criticizing the police officer, cryptically saying that “… there were a lot of things that I wish would have been done differently.” She suggested that an NRA Carry Guard card could have prevented his killing. But the officer shot Mr. Castile while he was reaching for his driver’s license and registration, so it’s not clear how having an NRA card in his wallet could have possibly helped.
This equivocation is unprincipled. Whatever one’s view of the appropriate scope of the Second Amendment, it ought to extend to all equally, without regard to race.
Americans that will pull a weapon in defense of the innocent are everywhere, law enforcement better learn to deal with it or be held accountable when they do not.
Killing brave Americans is unacceptable.
Source: Does the Second Amendment Protect Only White Gun Owners? | American Civil Liberties Union
Category: Gun Grabbing Fascists, Guns, Liberals suck
Note that the first gun CONTROL laws were enacted to disarm former black slaves… the NRA is pretty much color blind and advocates for legal gun possession by law abiding citizens of any hue. It should be noted that they also advocate that unless you are actively engaged in a defensive fire situation, you put your gun DOWN so police aren’t faced with making a wrong decision under stress, especially if you match the description of the shooter. Both of these cases involved poor police work, though, although pretty much anyone acting similarly would have been shot or come damn close to it.
Oh, and if you watched the Castille tape, the officer told him repeatedly (like at least three times) to STOP reaching for his license and registration which were inside his jacket.
Yeah, their gross mis-representation of the Castile case leads me to question their other assertions.
Agree with David. Also hope that Concealed Carry instructors are not telling people to inform an Officer of the Law “they have a Gun”, just like you don’t use the word “Bomb” in an airport or plane!
State clearly with your hands clearly visible “Officer I am a licensed Concealed Carry Holder… what do you want me to do?” Wait for his/her response, and do only what they tell you to do!
I don’t know enough about the Roberson case to speak on it. But I think training, or better training, would have helped in the Bradford and Castille cases. Not just better training for the officers, but for the gun owners also. When I read the Bradford accounts I couldn’t help but ask myself why in hell he was yanking his handgun out when there was no threat to be seen? The Castille case has been gone over and over again, so I won’t rehash it. But there again, training, or better training, would have helped. And that goes for all people. I read a story yesterday about a grandfather who was shot by police after he successfully defended his ten year old grandson against a creep who tried to rape and drown him. The old man walked out of his house, with gun in hand, straight into the police who shot him when he raised his flashlight.
Except that wasn’t always true, they liked the laws in California that were designed to disarm the Panthers. The NRA today is perhaps different than the NRA then, but even Reagan said back then he saw no reason why any citizen should be carrying a loaded weapon on the streets of his state.
Reagan had his flaws. And his state has changed since he was in charge… 50 years ago.
“Whatever one’s view of the appropriate scope of the Second Amendment, it ought to extend to all equally, without regard to race.”–Carl Takei, Senior Staff Attorney, ACLU’s Trone Center
What a ludicrous statement. Perhaps his copy of the 2nd A excludes non-whites. Mine doesn’t. So long as there are firearms, ladders, cars, lawn mowers, carving knives, flammable liquids, power tools, and people, there will be negligence and criminality that results in injury and death from use of those things. It’s as simple as that. Police have mistakenly shot innocent people who were unarmed and they have mistakenly shot innocent people who were unarmed. I suppose one answer is to disarm police only, but that’s not quite practical. But I do wonder why Takei didn’t suggest that as long as he was going to wade into the fool’s pool.
Not a big fan of the ACLU, but they sometimes get it right. A number of my black friends, that are CCW holders, do not carry all of the time for these very reasons.
Black, white, red, green, yellow, or purple a number of these cases are due to poor training of the officers. In many case, especially smaller, rural areas, the budget doesn’t allow for it. Fault the city/county/state politicos for this.
You also, as you pointed out Dave, need to be aware as a CCW. When the popo arrive, they can’t always tell the difference from the sheep and the goats. That makes everyone with a weapon a goat. A true tragedy this armed lost his life as a result of “friendly fire.” The local popo needs to “man up”, admit their officer screwed up and work on training the officers AND educating the public so this may not happen again.
IIRC the 1st gun control was actually in more of a response to the Nat Turner uprising of slaves 1832 (?) and concerns from the result of the Haiti uprisings. Might have been more of a state thing v a national. Many states, prior to the WBTS had state law banning blacks from even being in the state, Illinois was one.
Rocket Man, there’s a very good reason they won’t freely come clean–you can bet the farm they are being warned by their city’s legal counsel and the company that insures them for liability to keep their mouths shut. A clear admission of fault leaves them wide open to a humongous settlement or an even larger award from a sympathetic jury. It’s going to cost them, no matter what happens, but they’re just trying to mitigate that cost.
^word^ The city is screwed either way and so is the officer and especially the armed dead citizen.
Only winners in this case will be the lawers.
All men are created equal.
It’s only five words. We all know what those five words mean.
The other problem is, we don’t ever see the actual numbers in regards to how many “positive” stops police make with people of color. We don’t see how often they don’t shoot the “wrong” person. We don’t see all their interactions on a daily basis with all types of people where nothing bad happens, there’s no racism, there’s no poor training to be blamed, etc. I’d bet there are Millions of interactions that happen each year that we don’t see. We only hear about the few times (in comparison) where bad shit happens.
Training is definitely a necessity and better training really is a requirement. It’s tough to say there’s ever too much training, unless of course it is mandatory annual training. But how tough is it to get all that training done with all the other work having to be accomplished as a law enforcement member?
A Sheriff Clarke points out, who is in these communities dealing with the crime victims, fighting crime, and making the neighborhoods safer? It ain’t Jesse Jackson or the ACLU. It’s the cops.
MSG Eric, in a related discussion we do however, occasionally see the dead or harassed white guy who was also doing the right thing (it just doesn’t make the national news). I keep seeing the video (USCCA advert) of a white male who was pulled over by the police, they found out through their linked registration that he was also a concealed carry license holder. One of the Officers than asked him if he was currently armed…at which time they took him in to custody. There was no indication he was a threat until this, and they did not ask him anything else until they got to the station.
In some states, the CPL holder is mandated to advise the police that he/she is armed, if stopped. The penalties may include being arrested for violation of the law.
http://concealednation.org/2015/07/do-you-have-a-duty-to-inform-when-carrying-concealed-we-look-at-all-50-states-for-the-answers/
That training goes both ways. I think it’s incumbent upon the gun owner who chooses to carry to get training also. That training should be comprehensive to include state laws concerning carry and use of a firearm, threat recognition, and interacting with police, to name a few things. Whether that training should be mandatory is another discussion. But we as gun owners should recognize the need for training and seek it out. Military training or a basic civilian course isn’t enough. And where one lives is hardly an excuse. Even in the rural area I live in, there is excellent training available inside a 45 minute drive.
I don’t know how many of you watch the show Live PD. I would highly recommend you do. It shows the reality of police work. You get to see the good and the bad, but mostly the good and kind things that police do every day! The old adage of walk a mile in my shoes comes to mind. Nobody is perfect including police.
The officers involved in the Bradford shooting were screwed either way. You’re responding to an active shooter, receiving little if any information on the suspect. You arrive and there’s a man with a gun. I’d be shocked if the officers just opened fire without making some attempt to get him to drop it. In the heat of the moment, with tunnel vision and auditory exclusion, Bradford might not have heard it.
So the cops have two choices, let a man with a gun in an active shooter scenario go (risking untold other lives) or engage the armed individual. It’s a no win scenario.
First rule of carrying concealed is to obey the uniforms when they show up. When I got trained to work plain clothes, that was the biggest fear put into me. Undercover cops get shot by cops because they don’t know they’re cops and it’s just a dude with a gun. The problem is that most civilians aren’t trained to maintain their situational awareness while in such a high stress situation.
What he said!
The police can’t determine who the good guy or bad guy is when they roll up on a scene. Those who carry need to get appropriate training. Know when to pull your gun and what to do when the police arrive.
Correct. It is a warning that is given in all police training, that if you are undercover and there is nothing on you to show clearly that you are police, you get on the ground and stay on the ground. If you are in plain clothes but not working under cover, that badge comes out and you are yelling that you are police. If there’s a windbreaker with POLICE on it and you can get it on, you get it on. There is nothing new under the sun. The point is that it is easy when bullets are flying to shoot the wrong person.
“First rule of carrying concealed is to obey the uniforms when they show up.”
It doesn’t matter if you’re carrying concealed, open carrying or unarmed when the police show up, OBEY THEM, regardless. Failure to do so likely will end badly for any citizen.
I don’t carry on my person because I don’t like the inconvenience–I know, I know, better to be inconvenienced than dead, but I’m an old geezer and I know there are plenty of younger folks carrying in this state. However I do always have multiple weapons in my vehicles and I often worry about how to deal with that fact should I be stopped by the police. Under Arkansas law, I have no legal responsibility to inform an officer that I have weapons in my car–the law requires them to be cased yet not concealed as in a glove compartment or console, whatever the hell that means. If they’re cased and the case isn’t labeled, “GUN CASE” then they’re concealed.
Gun law in Arkansas is badly muddled with various authorities interpreting existing law in multiple ways. However, an October 18th ruling by the Arkansas Court of Appeals has apparently made constitutional carry legal in the state. How that will effect vehicle carry is any citizen’s guess.
Regardless, whatever a cop tells me to do, I’m going to obey.
“Regardless, whatever a cop tells me to do, I’m going to obey.” That’s always the smartest move. In some states, including mine, there is no legal obligation to mention that you’re carrying. Cop wants me to get out of my car? With my hands still locked on the wheel at 10 and 2, I say, “I have a firearm in a holster on my right hip.” Why? Just as police don’t know who they are stopping, I don’t know the police officer who stopped me.
Was working nights and on the way home, I sort of went over the speed limit by maybe 10 miles before the Atlantic Beach bridge in Nassau County when the roof lights on the police car showed up in my rear view mirror. I pulled over, shut off the car, turned on the inside over head light and took the keys out and put it on top of the roof so the officer could see it then held on to the wheel. I gave him my drivers license and Brink’s Id. Before he even looked at the Id’s, he asked me what agency I worked for. He spotted my blue light on the dash and I told him I was a Volly in the Long Beach FD and turns out he was a member of the Inwood Volly FD on his side of the bridge. Just watch the speed he said and I was off. I also wasn’t paying attention one time and ran a stop sign going into work through Queens NYC right in front of two NYPD parked cars. Lights go on and I do the key on the roof routine showed my Licence and Brink’s Id and told the Officer I was trying to get into work driving a different way due to a road closure and wasn’t paying attention to the sign. Another be careful and watch the signs she told me. Telling the Officer that I did stop when I didn’t stop makes the Officer the liar saying that I didn’t stop and that pisses them off. A friend of mine who was a 115 PCT told me never to lie to the officer who ever pulls you over. Another short story I just made long.
It’s pretty common for cops to come across armed citizens. It’s not a big deal in most cases as long as it’s not a surprise.
I always told people, even if you aren’t legally required to notify the cop, if you don’t tell them and they see it, they’ll assume it’s an illegal gun.
Nothing like having ten squads show up and pull everyone out of your car at gunpoint with K9s barking at you to drive that point home.
It’s the same for off-duty cops when they get stopped and are armed. Notify the officer, follow their directions. The problem will be most people carry their gun and wallet on the same side. So just do what keeps the cop comfortable and ask before reaching.
What I sweat most is getting stopped out of state. I try to research gun laws for each state I’ll be traveling through but the damned laws are changing constantly to the extent that even law enforcement may be unaware of the most recent changes.
And don’t think you can rely on the NRA for up to date changes in gun laws. They weren’t clued in on the recent Arkansas Appeals Court ruling until I sent them an email. They still have some caveats based on the pre-ruling statutes that I and many others, including a gun law expert on the UA law faculty, believe are likely invalidated. under this latest ruling. In fact many are saying the only real requirement under that ruling is that you have no intention of doing unlawful harm to another.
I have this on my phone. Its a great app all you do is enter all the permits you have and it tells you where you are covered.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ryan.ccw&hl=en_US
Nice app. One-stop shopping.
Make sure you carry the app with you and show it to the cop if you get stopped. They like that.
Just downloaded that app. Very smooth operation.
The NRA does need to step up their game, but they are likely trying wait until they can confirm the individual was in the right (liability). In the case of the Security Guard in Chicago I don’t believe it was ever in question.
Of course they may be just ensuring they are registered members first!
It seems the NRA is in a ‘damned if you do, damned if you don’t’ situation. When the NRA spoke out against police excess, the Democrats and others on the left ripped into them. When the NRA stays silent, the left rips into them.
“Of course they may be just ensuring they are registered members first!”
As an endowment member I rather doubt it.
The NRA does not “register” members.
It’s not just blacks. Right here in CO a white, male, Army veteran gun owner was shot and killed in his own home by Aurora police immediately after he shot an armed intruder who was assaulting his grandson:
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/crime/da-no-charges-against-aurora-police-officer-who-shot-killed-homeowner-who-had-just-killed-intruder
Maybe a little remedial training for the cops is in order here. In a nation where people have the right to own and possess firearms, the fact that someone at a crime scene has a gun in his hand ought not be a license for the cops to execute him on sight.
Bingo!
This was not an execution. The responding officers had little information, just going to an intruder in the home. Gets there and confronts a man with a gun. Man refuses to drop gun, gets shot.
The cops know there are other people in the house (they’re the ones who called). You want them to let a non-cooperative, armed suspect wander through the house, down that hallway, towards the hiding victims/callers?
What more training would you suggest for the officers?
Well, I dunno, maybe identifying yourself as a police officer would be a good start (which the cops never did and that is confirmed from their own statements.)
Precisely, Jumper. The responsibility cuts both ways and I would wager that a civil jury would find a greater duty on the part of the police because they are the trained professionals.
The Police bodycam’s are a great help to sort out what happened and what didn’t happen. There is no panacea with this situation or anything like it. The rules are simple, tell the cop you are an LTC (License to Carry in Texas concealed or in the open. There is one thing they teach in the LTC course and that is that you are always better off telling the cop that you have a license and then let him decide what to do. Make your movements slow and use the opposite hand to touch the firearm if they ask to see it. Usually they say that it’s fine in the door pocket, but always just keep your hands on the wheel. If outside and if you have been involved in an incident where there has been a shooting, be ready to follow the police orders, to the letter and to not say anything until you have been checked out by an EMT and have contacted your attorney. You have just been through a traumatic incident and need to be checked out at an ER as heart issues can be common following one of them that could cost you your life. The statement that there will be more incidents since there are now more people carrying firearms than in the past. Not true, more people have discovered that carrying a firearm is not as hard as people think and that usually just the sight of a firearm is enough to put a halt to the aberrant behavior. My life was saved by a firearm, twice and no shots were ever fired. It’s easy to make generalizations, but the facts themselves typically are less likely to be the original generalizations than not. The NRA has no bearing on who can or cannot join their organization. None whatsoever as they have the belief of our Founding Fathers that no matter what your beliefs are, you have the same rights to self defense as everybody else. There are more blacks, Asians, Indians, Russians, even French people that are members of the NRA. Well over… Read more »
On the gripping hand, when the ACLU spend as much money and time on my Second Amendment rights as they do on transsexual bathroom rights I’ll give a shit about what they think.
Exactamundo, DaveP. That covers my feelings about this issue and the American Communists Liars Union. Although I doubt that I’d give a shit even then.
“The responding officers had little information”
That seems to be a common comment. I agree. That is also a very strong reason for the police to be extra careful before opening fire. Take an extra second or two to get a grasp of the situation before pulling the trigger. Too much risk? Tough shit. Find another job.
I don’t know about REtraining, but the police certainly need a lot more training and a lot more REALISTIC training in the situations they are likey to run into, and how every person holding a gun is not a target.
According to the US Gov’t., police officer is not even one of the ten most dangerous jobs. Until it is, police can afford to be a little slower on the trigger.
Just for kicks, here is one of my favourite police execution videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ooa7wOKHhg
This one is gonna cost them:
https://bangordailynews.com/2018/12/11/news/bangor/man-whose-house-was-blown-up-and-shot-by-police-seeks-120-million-in-damages/
Cops shoulda followed Aretha’s advice: “you better think…”bout what you trying to do….yeah yeah think…”
I see your house and raise 64 houses. (I think that record still stands)
What an absurd bunch of indefensible assumptions the ACLU makes on this one. Given that it’s the ACLU, no real surprise there.
It can be amusing to watch the contortions they execute to justify the choices they make. Really funny sometimes.
Where were all the cries for sympathy when a Hispanic American brandished a weapon and killed an African American whilst the African American was beating the crap out of him?