Soldier’s Certificates
Another bright idea from the Army’s leadership – a certificate for completing basic combat training. It’s not quite as bad as the ribbon that the Air Force hands out to basic trainees, but it’s right up there. Probably worse than the meainingless gesture, is how the Army arrived at the certificate, according to the Army Times;
The idea for the certificate came from a summit early last year, when then-Army Under Secretary Patrick Murphy charged senior leaders with finding a way to amp up the Soldier for Life program. The program, which falls under the Army G-1, has focused a lot on transitioning out of the Army and less on the early stages of Army life.
“How can we highlight these activities — really get after the mindset that you earned this, and you will continue to be a soldier through your military career and once you’ve left the service?” Coleman said.
A handful of TRADOC working groups later, the certificate was born.
Ya know, it’s bad enough that most of the civilian population is ignoring the fact that we’re at war, but when TRADOC (Training and Doctrine Command) is wasting their time on working out these brainfarts, we have a real problem. There’s nothing really wrong with the certificates, what’s wrong is wasting time and money that should be applied to fighting our numerous enemies. I hope Secretary Mattis straightens out a few of these good idea fairies.
Category: Army News
Don’t you still get a shiny Army Service Ribbon when you graduate Basic?
Enlisted receive the ASR when they graduate from AIT. Officers receive the ASR when they graduate from their Basic Course.
Thanks; guess it’s been awhile.
😉👌 We all learn from one another, epecially on TAH. Thank you for serving our country!
Hell, in the Navy, all I got out of basic was sores, bruises, skinned places and a tiny piece of seaweed!
I know my son got the ASR after Basic in 2012.
Per AR 600-8-22, 5-5, the Army Service Ribbon is awarded to Servicemembers of the U.S. Army for successful completion of initial entry training. For most folks, that’s BCT + AIT, but if you transfer in from another service and are awarded an MOS, then it’s awarded after four months of active service.
I’m guessing that either your son went to OSUT (BCT and AIT combined in a single program), or else perhaps you’re remembering he was awarded the NDSM?
The ASR and the NDSM, it’s not like they give that shit to everybody
Do you still get a paycheck when you join & complete Basic? Maybe they could frame the LES.
You are not alone. My first thought was that continuing to get paid was more than ample recognition of my showing up where I was supposed to be and doing what was expected of me.
Conjuring up this sort of nonsense is a waste of time which could, and should, be much better spent on readiness. Whoever came up with this and all similar good ideas obviously needs some retraining and reassignment.
Somehow, it isn’t the same thing as high school graduation.
Move your Beret Flash from the left to the right? Or was that right to left. I can never remember…..
If a person doesn’t have the mindset that they are a soldier at the end of basic, maybe they need to toughen it back up a bit.
YES!
When I joined almost 30 years agothey had the Army soldierization program. It meant you were not considered a “soldier” until 6 months service. Before that you were a recruit/trainee.
You got a certificate at 6 months for meeting all the requirements for soldierization (PT, RUCK, discipline). Essentially the same crap different name.
I am not sure why you guys are trying to shame the Army and ridicule new troops for something that is essentially just a new name to shit they have been doing for decades.
“There’s nothing really wrong with the certificates, what’s wrong is wasting time and money that should be applied to fighting our numerous enemies.”
BINGO!
Just think of the number of meetings/conferences and PowerPoint presentations were done to help “leadership” come to this conclusion – and at what expense to the warfighter down range.
And most, hopefully all, of them knew this was all smoke and mirrors to make the boss happy. Joy, joy, joy. Couldn’t one of them have said, “Sir, this is a stupid waste of time better spent elsewhere.”
I am waiting for the feedback memo from Mattis which will read, to quote: “YGTBFSM”
I’d bet on that one, David!
jeebus…another item for the poser supply companies to falsify
Powerpoint and Photoshop,the two greatest inventions in military history…
Is this retroactive? After all the time in the Middle East, Europe and retirement, I just don’t feel like I have accomplished anything – a shiny new certificate will be just the thing to make me feel like a soldier again. What’s next, hug stations in the field?
The Navy already tried it and had to start putting women on maternity leave.
This is what happens when you let the G-1 make decisions.
Someone needs to apply copious quantities of Good-Idea-Fairycide to the operating environment there.
Who in the hell thinks that soldiers need a participation certificate? That dumbcluck needs a hard dose of reality – preferably in a hostile environment.
Oh, shoot! A 12 mile ruck march on Fort Jackson would probably tighten their shot group enough that all three would hit the paper that is operational reality!
It wouldn’t be fair to put them down range in an actual hostile environment where they could get someone else killed—especially whomever was gifted this from the Good Idea Fairy probably has enough rank to really make a mess!
True dat.
Make it 15 miles with a 45# ruck, add a PT test at the end, then an obstacle course and shooting requal on top of that.
In August.
Does July count?
Only at Benning….otherwise it needs to be January at Drum…
Nah. They’ll probably get an ARCOM.
The phenomenon of cheapening a recognition occurs in the military as well as the civilian world, I see.
Bling-chasers are gonna chase bling. Posers gonna pose. At least Jonn et al gets to expose the posers.
And don’t forget Scotty, The Poser Disposer…
For any entrepreneurs here, I offer this idea:
Create a canned “air freshener” that smells like burning cordite. (Or WP or napalm)
Label it “Good-Idea-Fairycide”.
Sell it in the local PX and watch the money roll in.
I received a Diploma from Infantry OSUT… Its on the wall along with a couple others from Fort Benning School For Wayward Youths.
I have no problem documenting accomplishments, just stop a half rotation of the Earth away from parting a sea.
Oh, and don’t put it on your wall with a Combat-Proven Team Leader, unless you like triceps of fire.
Ha! I just realized I hung all my Army shtuff, INCLUDING the Basic/AIT Diploma but not my Associate Degree…
Accomplishments are relative.
My Associates, Bachelors, AND Masters are stuck in storage somewhere. But I still have my Gunnery Sergeant warrant and MSM in a place of pride on my wall. You’re right, accomplishments are relative. If they implement this program, I wonder how many certs you see being left on the graduation deck or rolled up in the bleachers once it’s done?
Well, shame on them. At Reception they made it a point to tell us over and over “don’t throw out nothing, you might need it in 20 years” and I took that to heart. I still have my weapons quals from 15 years ago…
Just imagine going to retire and a glitch took you off roll.
Stupider things have happened.
@ ROH-DOG:
You wrote:
“Well, shame on them. At Reception they made it a point to tell us over and over ‘don’t throw out nothing, you might need it in 20 years’ and I took that to heart.”
_______________________________
Since a certificate and a citation accompanied my Bronze Star Medal and my Army Commendation Medal, I threw away the original orders because I thought they weren’t necessary.
At the time, I didn’t know there were frauds out there pretending to be veterans, and forging certificates to back up their stories.
But, of course, the awards are also listed on my DD-214 (which can also be forged), and my Form 20, which posers don’t even know about, so I doubt it ever would be forged.
If you had a good S-1 the orders number should be on the cert, then a little FOIA-fu should get you the originals…YMMV
I knew some guys that had to get their CIB orders that way due to being in more that one company during a deployment.
I still have my hard-copy LES’s from 1986… Ya never know.
I kept 3 or 4. . .
I still have my initial issue inventory from 1974, just in case they ever want it back.
Wow you got a DIploma?
All I got was a Blue Cord and a Blue Scarf…well not the whole scarf, just a blue square with a thin strap that goes around your neck…you have to make it look like a scarf when you tuck the square….we didn’t get those cool berets either….but it was a long time ago…
I’m surprised to learn that this hasn’t already been done. The military awards certificates for lots of lesser accomplishments; why not for completing Basic?
Rather, why not quit giving certificates for lesser accomplishments?
The award for completing Basic is that one has completed Basic and can now start working toward some meaningful advancements.
Something better than a certificate:
http://www.breitbart.com/news/michigan-vietnam-vet-is-trumps-1st-medal-of-honor-recipient/
the only “certificate” I ever wanted was a 1059.
HA!
I love it Jonn the good idea fairies
How I miss the Army on some days
Then they pull this crap
And I think how lucky I am I’m retired
I thought we already had a recognition for graduation from Basic: the continued right to wear the uniform.
You know, that outfit that is supposed to mean something?
In Infantry OSUT, we were permitted to hear the camouflage helmet cover once we qualified with the M-16. When we transitioned from what was the “basic” phase over to the “AIT” phase, we were permitted to wear, in garrison, the BDU cap instead of a brain-bucket. We were ceremoniously told, casually, by a Drill Sergeant “You are no longer ‘training to be soldiers’ but are now ‘Soldiers in training'”. (And were promptly dropped for an extended smoke break.)
My understanding is that once one graduates Basic, one is awarded the title “Soldier”. I infer the other services have a similar custom for their “one of us” term.
-That- meant something to -me- anyway. (I still have that BDU hat. It is long past wearable, but I will keep it until I pass on.)
Why not focus on that? Take 5 minutes out to put on the hat, re-recite the Oath and Code of Conduct, and, being Soldiers, go right back to the mission of the day.
YES!
I believe when my son graduated basic he got to wear the blue cord. I don’t know if they still do the other stuff you mentioned (I’d have to ask him, and he may not remember) but the blue cord and title of soldier means something.
Blue cord was for completing infantry AIT. Which is a phase after basic but basic training and infantry AIT blends together at Benning.
Yes. That would be “OSUT”. I cannot recall ever hearing the term “AIT”, referring to us, when I was in OSUT. There were “phases” seldom mentioned.
The “turning Blue” seems to be new. We were just handed ours and told to put them on for a Class A uniform inspection shortly before graduation. It was the first and only time we wore class As there, since we were fitted for them. We graduated in BDUs, because the BN CO said that is what Infantry wears.
-Graduating- as an Infantryman, and being treated as a -soldier- by Sergeants and Officers I respected, after I had pretty much screwed up most of my life before that, moved me -deeply-.
The only reason the diploma and blue rope mean anything, is they remind me of -that-. Because three -outstanding- NCOs taught me what it all -meant-, and how to -live- it.
Not because someone got my name right (finally) on a piece of paper.
Next we’ll be handing out little trophies of a ruck sack for completing BCT.
Why, they don’t even ruck in BCT anymore do they?
👍👍👍
They better, somebody has to pay me back for all those miles we did back and forth. When the bus would show up at the range to take us to the barracks and the DS would send it away and have us walk back every damn time.
It was only really irritating when the other platoons would pass as on the road in their bus.
???
I feel like something is being lost in transmission here. AFIAK they were already handing out certificates for completing BCT. I received a certificate of completion or something like that when I graduated from BCT a couple of years ago (Benning, but not OSUT), another one for OCS, and yet another one for BOLC. They’ve been in the manila folder they came in ever since. I guess I’ll double-check once I get home, but I’m pretty sure they are talking about introducing something they were already doing.
I will have to check my stuff, I think we were given certificates for completing Basic/AIT at Knox back in 79 as well. I do have my AOB Diploma somewhere accessible, its the only time I was on the “good” side of the Commandants List…:)
Hmmm, I get recognizing accomplishments, rites of passage, and going the extra mile, day after day. I guess Im kind of a hardass, graduation from basic, AIT, AOB, and courses like that are the minimum requirement for the job (the expectation is that we do the best job we can; isn’t it?).
I think Ive been on the receiving end of more “ya done good, but you fucked up” counseling sessions than I have been “front and center…”
Real historians will hopefully set me straight; but wasn’t the Medal of Honor the only medal awarded up until around 1910-ish? I know there are campaign medals for the Spanish American War, Indian War, and such from back then…but those were for campaigns, not for heroism…although, given the time, living through the campaign may have been a pretty heroic deed in itself.
I do like the comment about framing your LES or whatever its called now…:)
“I guess Im kind of a hardass, graduation from basic, AIT, AOB, and courses like that are the minimum requirement for the job (the expectation is that we do the best job we can; isn’t it?).”
I fully agree with that. Back in WW2 real heroes came home with maybe five ribbons/medals. Nowadays we hand them out for completing the most basic tasks and doing our jobs. It’s no surprise then to see NCOs and Junior Officers sport enough fruit salad to rival banana republic dictators at a pride parade.
We got a 214 from basic and a certificate from my two AIT schools
Ft Sill 06 and Ft Knox and lost in the woods 06
And I was wrong I did get a fancy certificate
“And the right hand never knows what the left hand is doing!”
What no participation trophy or medal to go with the certificate? They give you a graduation certificate for completing Ranger School, but it doesn’t mean much if you don’t get awarded the tab. Just ask someone who only received the certificate, if they will admit to it. It looks like the deleterious effects of the King Putt regime are still in play at Big Green.
What is the issue with this? When I graduated basic training in 1989 I received a certificate. I have seen these go back to at least the early 80s.
These look nicer than the ones we received but this is not some new “huggy army” thing.
It is just a piece of paper and you spend the 8 weeks looking forward to graduating. Handing grads a piece of paper does not seem like it should produce outrage.
I call this bullshit whining and outrage on those complaining about it. You guys whine about the left whining about stupid shit. Well, whining about soldier’s getting a certificate when they graduate basic is pretty fucking stupid.
You get a certificate for completing tons of meaningless courses in the military. Even week long 40 hours courses usually hand out some locally printed piece of paper with a border and a signature on it.
Seriously, why the whining?
Marines also give out a certificate for boot camp.
Seriously, WTF is the issue?
I honestly wonder if people posting complaint these outrage articles ever fucking served.
I am certain that the vast majority of you received certificates for completing basic or boot camp.
Marines were getting these since at least 1982 for completing boot camp.
We didn’t get one we got 214 and a kick in the ass
I stand corrected get one pice of paper that had my class number and year I passed
BCT
I figured. I probably would not have remembered getting one except that it was windy and it had been raining.
When my drill sergeant went to hand it to me it blew away and quickly skitted along the muddy field.
Rather than chase it down I shrugged it off and fell back in.
Later he walked up to me and handed it to me. It had his boot print on it. He must have chased it down and stomped on it to keep it from continuing to fly away.
I thought it was cool that he got it for me and funny it had his boot print on it.
So I remember mine.
I am not sure where it is now. Probably in a box in my storage unit. I would not have thrown it away.
You did not get a 214 when you completed basic training. If you did you were a reservist or national guardsmen on temporary active duty for basic training.
Was a reservist after I was done went over to Big Army
It’s funny (sad) how he tells us what we received or didn’t receive.
Lars is…
Well we all know how Lars is
He is correct about the DD-214 though. AD doesn’t get one for completing Boot.
That he is, I was a DEP Guard with a option
To go active after one year from initial
Training instead I choose while I was at AIT
And how much time did TRADOC spend on this decision, instead of allowing the local training commands? How many clusterfuck meetings, VTC’s and PowerPoint presentations? That’s the point – some technocrat at higher command micromanaging what’s done at lower levels.
BTW, assclown, I did serve for a Hell of a lot longer than you. If you want to question my service, go right ahead, I’ll provider the info for Jonn or Dave Hardin to run me through NPRC.
I never said you didn’t serve. But if you did in the last 35 years you that giving people certificates for completing basic or boot camp have been for more than 30 years.
They are a good thing. They do nothing to harm the services.
And this was not a “hard” choice requiring strategic thinking by big army.
Handing out certificates and even ribbons and medals has always been partially in order to increase motivation, loyalty, dedication, and moral.
Sure some awards are meant to recognize exceptional action. And those have the most prestige. But certificates have been handed since WWII for appreciation or merely recognizing reaching specific standards.
This is nothing new at all.
“I honestly wonder if people posting complaint these outrage articles ever fucking served.” You posted it – don’t ever question my service again, Lars… I have no qualms to sign any document for Jonn or Dave to run me through NPRC and pull my service record.
So, genius… what did this accomplishment do for the guy or gal that’s downrange in Iraq or Afghanistan? That’s my point in this matter.
BTW – the Navy didn’t give out certificates for boot camp back in 1982 in San Diego – if you were the company honor recruit you got one, along with an entry in the service record and orders to your next command.
I just enjoy seeing Commissar speak in absolutes about subjective matters. I can only imagine the spike in his mean arterial pressure when he types such things. 🙂
Yeah, you can tell when someone finally got on Commissar’S NERVES because the cussing starts, everyone but Commissar is an idiot, and no one but Commissar knows anything about anything at all, fer sure!
See below. 🙂 🙂 🙂
Some days I wonder if Lars is one of these Admin guys we had
They Talk like a duck
Walk like a duck
And smell like a duck
I swear they are the some people
Maybe the Piuperdink will blow a gasket or a valve one of these days.
It’s the threat to his perceived station in life that compels him to constantly display his ability to be the Compleat Social Moron.
Fuck off. You decided to be outraged over people getting certificates.
I believe you served. But certificates are a petty thing to be upset about.
And your bullshit spin that “resources” are wasted that could be used to win in Afghanistan is ridiculous.
First, these certificates increase moral and a sense of identity as a soldier. Identifying as a soldier is a huge aspect of what makes a professional army work and be disciplined. Dress blue uniforms and ribbons, stripes on trousers, shiny low quarters etc do not do anything to help us win down range either. But they are part of the pride and camaraderie and sense of identity and accomplishment that goes into being a soldier – which does translate to a more effective force.
The dissonance you display about people wasting “resources” to give certificates to troops sure as shit makes you seem out of touch with the military. And the ridiculous notion that you assumed this required massive amount of leadership decision-making time and effort is also ridiculous. The Army has done a lot more than decide to issue certificates with almost NO time and effort wasted in the decision making cycle.
This decision was inconsequential. In fact it looks like all they really did was order basic training commands to issue their certificates using a uniform format across TRADOC. All of these individual basic training locations were already issuing certificates and had been for decades.
It sure as shit did not require staffing and an MDMP process to make this decision. Probably just a memo with a file attached with the TRADOC format for the certificate.
“Certificates are a petty thin to be upset about.”
Wow! Someone definitely struck a nerve in ol’ Commissar’S left elbow! Those precious little pieces of paper – those participation trophies! – are probably the only thing he reads at night when he snuggles into his corner with his binkie.
No. Wrong again. I have dozens of certificates and none are framed.
I know they are somewhere in my storage unit but have no reason to look because they would be a bitch to get to.
The “nerve” that was struck is a bunch of people bitching about an inconsequential thing brought to their attention by a misleading Article intended to embarrass and ridicule the Army.
Maybe you don’t give a fuck when someone writes a bullshit petty misleading article to shame the Navy. But I think the Army should only be called out when it actually fucks up. Not because it is doing something inexpensive and probably fairly effective to increase moral and a sense of identity as soldiers among new recruits.
The more you talk the more a realize how inconsequential military service is to you. You even posted more than once that being career military means someone never had a “real job”.
In summary; go fuck yourself.
And THERE IT IS!
Right on schedule!
Poke a nerve and the SJW howler monkey is banging the empty gas can, screeching the loudest, because NOBODY except COMMISSAR Commissar has the right to say anything or be up at his imaginary level of whatever!
The title of Social Moron of the Year (possibly decade) goes to Commissar!!!
I can’t go fuck myself, Idiotstick. I don’t have a penis.
Every time you address one of us in your usual disrespectful way, this is what you say:
And you could not have served much longer than me since the E8 retention control point is 29 years.
Oh! Oh! Oh! No one on earth can possibly have EVER served as long as DER COMMISSAR Commissar! The competition for FIRST!!!! is gut-wrenching!!!!
Piuperdink, you haven’t even the vaguest idea how ridiculous you are.
He is a REMF civil affairs reserve bitch. I doubt he has served more than five years, if that long, on active duty.
False. I have 15 years active. Six of them in LLVI/SOTA. Neither are REMF. And Civil Affairs is not REMF either dipshit. How the fuck do you not know that? Do you even know what Civil Affairs is?
Civil Affairs….Oh, that explains a lot. Got it.
Really SARC?
I expected more from you than disparage an entire military career field. And it is not the only one I served in.
LOL…Oh lighten up, it was a joke.
FFS know your operational environment. 🙂
You think I don’t get Squid jokes working on Fort Bragg?
OK, I should have recognized the joke. You are one of the members of this board I know to be reasonable and one I respect.
No worries.
The post below with the Rally Point link was director at RGR769.
I knew my explaining civil affairs would have had no value to him so I posted a link to others explaining it.
Maybe these guys can help explain it to an asshole like you that disparages an entire career field that you do not know fuck all about.
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/what-exactly-do-civil-affairs-38b-do
Yes, but quite a few REMFs are very useful people who do their jobs well. Not everyone ends up in the war zone.
What I don’t get is this fascination he has with pieces of paper. He is, however, more and more consistent about his efforts to belittle everyone he addresses and the desperate need to drop the O-ganger title into the mix.
I don’t mean to denigrate REMFs in general, just one particular one. Or, those who claim to be something they are not, like our never ending supply of posers/embellishers.
I knew what you meant, rgr769.
I was not REMF. Your lack of understanding of non-infantry jobs is your error. Not mine.
What is an O-ganger?
And if you are referring to my having been an officer. You guys are the ones constantly bringing that up. Not me.
You don’t know shit about what the High Year Tenure is for Navy personnel, Lars… go fucking look it up cocksucker.
You’re just a fucking congenital asshole – you prove it ever damn time you post here at TAH. You sure as Hell don’t like it when you get your ass handed back to you or if someone has a different opinion that you do.
You’ve got a fucking problem – your alligator mouth overloads your hummingbird ass every damn time you post here. Someday, you’re gonna open that cakehole of yours in front of someone and they will pop you in the mouth.
Go fuck off, Commissar… you lost any respect I had for you a long time ago.
Lars,
For me at least, “the point” is that we had “then-Army Under Secretary Patrick Murphy charg[ing] senior leaders with finding a way to amp up the Soldier for Life program…” and “A handful of TRADOC working groups later, the certificate was born.”
That is – at least how I read this – we had a TRADOC group meeting several times to meet some fuzzy “goal” of an Army Under Secretary to, from all appearances, make the boots feel better about themselves for getting out of Basic.
If, as you say, they get a certificate anyway, then what in the world did this exercise do? It was a waste of time, energy, and resources, all to recognize the kids for doing something they are expected to accomplish as a minimum by signing up to start with.
It has the look, feel, and smell of a “participation trophy.” Totally meaningless. And more, evidence of the mindless waste of resources on the part of Murphy and TRADOC. Stupid to the nth degree.
The way I was raised, your “reward” for doing your job was that you got to continue doing your job and getting a paycheck. Your reward for doing your job well was that you get to promote and, sometimes, get a bigger paycheck.
Your reward for doing a job that few others have the capability or willingness to do is recognition from your peers, and in special cases some formal form of recognition.
Anyone who raises their right hand and takes the oath is expected to make it through Basic. If they cannot because of medical reasons – no shame. If they cannot because of being stupid – well it depends on how stupid. But it is a minimum requirement, not some extraordinary achievement.
The whole thing is a stupid, meaningless waste of time and resources.
I get your point. But I do not think this article is an accurate representation of what happened because it is generating outrage out of an inconsequential issue. First, those working groups would have been focused on a hell of a lot more than a certificate. Second, certificates were already being issued for basic training by all the basci training bases and had been for decades.So the outrage over the certificates is clearly bullshit. All that happened is TRADOC provided a uniform certificate format. Third, any military plan to address something like “Amping up the soldier life program” would have have more line of effort than a certificate. Do you really think whatever commander had this task land on his desk would have been fine with his subordinates floating a certificate as a complete and sufficient plan? No, the certificate is one aspect of a larger effort to amp up the soldier life program. And it is being spun by a BULLSHIT article to embarrass the Army. This whole thing reminds of all the whining and bitching over the BOSS, Better Opportunities for Single Soldiers program. Old timers whined about how “soft” the Army had become (while they drove home to their wives and base housing with full suburban amenities). BOSS resulted in hundreds of changes. Including better gyms, better rec centers, more barracks space, better chow facilities, Single E6s and above being treated like adults and being allowed to move of base into their own apartments (to increase living space for E5s and below in the barracks), small refrigerators in the barracks rooms. Now if one of those changes were taken out of context, like the addition of healthier snack like fruit and a frozen food section added to the shoppettes then it would look like BOSS accomplished very little. But it was more than one change. Most quite small, but in aggregate soldiers lived significantly better within 4 years. It also significantly increased rettion and allowed for the Army to more selective in promotions opportunities. It also significantly reduced fights and alcohol related incidents among soldiers. Since being… Read more »
You sure have a way of absolutely failing to measure up to the basics of rational respectful conversation. You have well demonstrated you -can- discuss things reasonably and respectfully, so you are obviously -choosing- to behave like a petulant child. Really? “whining and outrage”? I was reminiscing about some OSUT moments that meant something to me. I have paperwork for some “finished what I started” stuff, and a few ‘attaboy!’ items I never expected. But some of the “in the moment” stuff means more to me than all of the paper and bling, by far. The respect of NCOs and officers who outranked the **** out of me, and actually -listened- to my advice when I had something to contribute. Heard me out and sometimes took it. As a n00b PFC. They -allowed- me to be in the fraternity, as long as I -earned- it. Respect. Belonging. What is a certificate compared to -that-? -That- is the “morale” that builds an Army and conquers the enemy. Not pieces of paper tacked up in a barracks or stashed in a box. Paper doesn’t make the soldier. …. But you seem to see everyone through the mirror of your own deficiencies of character, -Respect- being central to it. Most any difference of opinion you raise is some sort of emotional slap-fest outburst or accusation of major deficiency of character on the part of the others, requiring most often your signature childish tantrum response that keeps earning you nicknames like “Impotent Rage”. You apparently wouldn’t know “officer and a gentleman” if one slapped you upside the head. Yet you -were- one. If you are going to keep name-dropping the title here, then how about living up to it -here- a little bit, huh? You still -have- a commission, right? It doesn’t say “only on weekends” right? You didn’t resign it, right? Act like it. You don’t need to -agree- with the denizens of this forum. Actually, it is useful that you do -not-. Orthodoxy should always be challenged, lest it become invalid to reality. But you are near totally ineffective due to “rage… Read more »
Just a little bit… The Reverend Franklin’s daughter Aretha says it all.
I am calling out people that are whining about this for bullshit outrage for whinning about this. If you are not whining then it does not apply to you. Why do so many members of this board WILLFULLY CHOOSE to assign themselves as wronged parties if I call someone else out for doing something that the other person did and they did not do? If I called out thieves for being shitbags and you are not a thief, THEN I AM NOT REFERRING TO YOU. Just because you potentially see them as part of your tribe does not mean you have to own everything they do and take it personal if THEY, not you, are called out for their bullshit. Also, I don’t name drop my rank. YOU GUYS DO. You just did. People looked it up and YOU guys name drop it constantly. Second, I have tried to have actual conversations on this board. And my posts get inundated with nonsense troll posts. Infidel’s constant stream of incomprehensible name calling while flat out ignoring the substance of my posts as a response to anything I say no matter how much I try to explain my position typifies the behavior I see to my posts. There are several others that have equally ridiculous substanceless troll posts to anything I say. It does matter whether I try to make a reasoned argument on this board. Even on issues on which I am objectively and verifiably correct I get relentlessly trolled and attacked for hours. The recent clownshow of the regulars on this board not recognizing or understanding the difference between Ranger School and Ranger Regiment is an example. They were falsely accusing someone of stolen valor and no amount of facts or argument was going to dissuade them from their idiotic position. Even when OTHER members of this board chimed in to it explain it to them they STILL refused to relent for hours. And they never retracted the stolen valor accusation against the person in question. Another example was my calling bullshit on a regular who was accusing a WWII… Read more »
Geezuz are you trying to bore us to death?
Really, COMMISSAR Commissar, if you don’t like the reactions you generate in other people – people who do NOT think you’re nearly the authority you think you are – then find another place to play. No one is forcing you to stick around.
You are only interested in pissing off other people. That much is clear. When you can’t have YOUR way, you switch gears, change the subject, and curse at anyone who disagrees with you, or find your way to another column to start the same crap there.
If that is not so, then why else did you move back here, when you’re only interested in starting another pissing contest OVER NOTHING.
Lars, why do you have to “be right” all the time? If I say giving a certificate for graduating boot camp is bullshit, why can’t you either just let it go or say that you disagree? I see stuff posted all the time that I disagree with, but I’ve learned a long time ago you never change peoples minds on the internet.
I think you like the attention, that you love getting all pissy and blustering.
You don’t come here for the bear hunting in my humble opinion.
Commissar,
The guys in the Commo shop taught me one of the single most useful pieces of wisdom about communications I ever learned.
When the message doesn’t arrive, or is garbled, the first place to look is the -transmitter-.
Consider, that your delivery may need some work.
Another gem, highly useful: when the OPFOR is jamming, or screwing with your net, -never- acknowledge it or confirm it.
…
Just think about how the folks you respect here, react to your reasoned posts. And do you honestly expect anyone who is an actual troll to stop being one? If so, is that rational?
Which do you want? Respect, or the satisfaction of endlessly flinging poo? It is a slow moving projectile. Sidestep, maybe flip off the flinger, and drive on.
Lars wrote: “Marines also give out a certificate for boot camp”.
Since when?
Gee, when we graduated from boot camp, we got a company group photo, a striker’s badge if going to “A” School stitched over the rating badge, and a set of orders to the next duty station.
I was the company honor grad when I went through – got a certificate for that and mentioned in the graduation program. Even a pic in “The Anchor” company book from RTC San Diego.
I got a picture and a “cruisebook” from Great Mistakes…we paid for those though.
I have no idea where they are or whether I lost them in the aftermath of one of my divorces. Doubt I’ll ever, after 24years of service, have to prove I actually gradumated boot camp.
Hell, all I wanted was off “Tank Hill ” at Ft. Jackson. My orders to AIT was enough for me. Oh happy day!
Hmmmm We get some form of paperwork that says we completed “Whatever Military” school. This has been going on for a pretty long time.
I think the issue here, at least for me, is what kind of resources did the Army spend on a redundant project… Soldiers graduating from whatever rank appropriate basic course already get their certificate, the ASR, and the NDSM (?). Very cool.
Why spend the time and money to come up with something new? Back in my day, when I was sentenced to being an Adjutant (S1) we spent a whole ton of time on FAMILY CARE PLANS, and ensuring that every soldiers SGLI info was correct. I imagine a whole ton of time is still spent on the 2017 version of the Family Care Plan.
Could the bucks and time spent on a new certificate of completion been better spent? I think so, but then again, Ive been out of the USAR since 1998.
killing trees is probably the biggest waste, but the gubbament always does that in one way or another
The trees used for paper production are known as pulpwood (softwood and hardwood) and are grown in plantations.
No Ents are harmed in the production of paper products.
I do have (somewhere0 my certificate from “A” School at NATTU NAS Pensacola in 1967, and another from some race relations class at NS (gag me) Orlando, but that’s about it.
I received a Cert. back in 69 when I completed Basic at Ft. Jackson. I see not harm in it
Exactly. I find is suspicious that so many a feeling outraged when most people who served would have received a certificate for basic training or something similar during their time in service.
I received them for several one, two, and three week courses.
Hell, Airborne has a pretty decent certificate and it was 3 weeks and a hell of alot easier than basic. Air Assault was only two weeks. .
Like my old sergeant major used to say:
“People expect the Army to do in eight weeks what the parents,the priests and the cops couldn’t do in eighteen years.”
At my son’s graduation at Benning one ol’ fella selling souvenir stuff said –
“Y’all all need to thank these Sergeants ’cause they did something y’all were never able to do: make your boys pull up their pants.”
I put in for the Cold War Cert. I was there for a good chunk of it and thought what the hell. So I sent in copies of my DD-214s and imagine my disappointment when it arrived, signed by Chucky Hagel.
Into the circular file it went.
You waited too long to apply.
I applied when it first came out and it was signed by William S. Perry.
Yep. And if I reapply, you suppose it’ll be signed by Mattis?
That would rock!
Apologies if this is repeated, but I did not see it post.
So the Marines have been giving them out since 1982? I graduated in ’86 and did not receive one…don’t know anyone who has. But then again, I retired in 2010, so things may have changed. I will have to ask my son if he got one, he graduated Dec 2015.
I know they existed because one of my old platoon sergeants (in the Army) was a former Marine. He had one up in his office. He took pride in having not been to Army basic training. And would drop in in conversation.
I just went on EBAY to see if someone was selling one of their old boot camp certificates to find a vintage one.
Apparently people are not selling them. Makes sense. Not something someone would want to sell or likely something anyone would want to buy.
There was a vintage certificate for sale that was issued simply for being accepted by the Marines. http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-CERTIFICATE-OF-ACCEPTANCE-UNITED-STATES-MARINE-CORPS-HONOLULU-HI-1967-/351103638224?hash=item51bf685ad0:g:TQ4AAOSwrmdTqt31
Since they were issuing certificates like the notion that at least some of the boot camp commanders were issuing certificates. I saw one. He was an E-7 with more than 10 years service. This was early 90s. So I assume the latest he was in Marine boot camp was 1982.
So this guy posted a copy of his from 1966.
http://www.rogermarty.com/timeline.htm
Click the link for “graduated boot camp” it has an image of his certificate. Clearly locally generated and issued by the recruit battalion.
Army was issuing these locally until this new change as well.
Maybe your recruit battalion was not issuing them when you went through?
Commie,
Once again you have answered to call for ” ignorance above and beyond the call of stupidity”.
Let me school you on those two links you posted for “certificates Marines get for graduating recruit training”.
Both are actual certificates.. as a matter of fact I have one of them myself.
The first one clearly states that the person has been accepted for enlistment. I have that one somewhere.
This is something recruiters give out to people they recruit who have met the moral, mental and physical requirements and taken the oath of enlistment.
The recipient is not a Marine, has not done any training whatsoever.
Its a recruiting tool to keep poolees pumped up. When I signed up to go in there were three of us that got those on the same day.
The other two never shipped out.
So, sorry Lars you are completely off base on that claim.
The second certificate is bona fide as well.
However if you look at it, it was awarded to one particular individual. He was the top recruit, or Honor Man in his Platoon. Certificates can also be awarded for having the high PFT Score and high Rifle Score in the Platoon, Series and Company.
In closing all Marines DO NOT get a certificate just for graduating boot camp.
Are you in line now Lars?
On the plus side my daughter was voted most popular or most likely to succeed or something by everyone so gained a rank at the end of basic by vote.
Good ideas seem to have taken hold
The reason I know I did not get one, is that I had received a certificate for PLC Junior course a couple summers before(motorcycle accident on the way to Senior course kept me from attending then decided to enlist). I figured we would be getting one for bootcamp, but never happened.
I’d be much more interested in a certificate that says I’m qualified in emergency first aid/CPR. That’s got some backing to it.
You can get that at a local Red Cross 1st aid course in weekend.
I use to be a Red Cross first aid CPR instructor back in my EMT days.
Ex-PH2, My Instructor quals are current…just relax and follow my instructions. 🙂
I wasn’t talking about the ARC course. I took that a long, long time ago. I am more interested in this.
https://www.wildmed.com/wilderness-medical-courses/
http://www.deploymentmedicine.com/courses_OEMS_files/DMI_COURSE_OEMS.pdf
That’s a fun time.
SARC, that looks like an interesting course! How long is it, and where? I have a little formal training in first aid and spent a lot of time in ER’s.
If I mention I know you can I get a discount? 🙂
I haven’t sent anyone to it in years. I used to send the 8404s that worked with me to give them a taste of the kind of fun they would have if they went through the SARC pipeline to become 8427s.
http://deploymentmedicine.com/oems-courses/ that’s the current schedule
Bookmarked. Thanks!
Looks like a great course for preparing for natural disasters too.
Everything I learned about wound care I learned from a large animal vet.
I learned everything I know about it from Hannibal Lecter.
With some fava beans and a nice chianti?
I’ll pass on the liver, thanks.
My son took one from NOLS for Wilderness First Responders and did well at it.
https://www.nols.edu/en/courses
ARC has a Wilderness and Remote First Aid that you can sometimes find locally provided. Those near Houston and part of a youth-serving organization can find them at http://www.scoutcpr.org
I see Lars has decided to show his ass again.
Marines DO NOT Receive a certificate for completing recruit training.
A Marines reward for completing training is the privilege of wearing the eagle globe and anchor.
You need to stop flapping your cock holster about things you don’t know about.
You are nothing more than a twat waffle who likes to attempt to confront anyone you think is on the right side of the political spectrum.
This article was pretty straightforward. The idea of awarding a certificate for completing basic training is redundant and wasteful. There is already a higher award in place, the ASR. Even that, in my opinion is redundant as a person who completes basic has earned the title of ” Soldier”.
False. individual Marine recruit training battalions do and have issued certificates at various times. I posted an example of one already.
As has Army basic training battalions.
The Army change is that it is an official standardized policy for the Army now.
The fact that you guys want to spin this as a huge controversial issue and use it to try to ridicule the Army is absolute fucking bullshit.
You just cannot admit you are wrong can you Lars?
Did you not read my post that explained what those two examples were?
Commie,
Once again you have answered to call for ” ignorance above and beyond the call of stupidity”.
Let me school you on those two links you posted for “certificates Marines get for graduating recruit training”.
Both are actual certificates.. as a matter of fact I have one of them myself.
The first one clearly states that the person has been accepted for enlistment. I have that one somewhere.
This is something recruiters give out to people they recruit who have met the moral, mental and physical requirements and taken the oath of enlistment.
The recipient is not a Marine, has not done any training whatsoever.
Its a recruiting tool to keep poolees pumped up. When I signed up to go in there were three of us that got those on the same day.
The other two never shipped out.
So, sorry Lars you are completely off base on that claim.
The second certificate is bona fide as well.
However if you look at it, it was awarded to one particular individual. He was the top recruit, or Honor Man in his Platoon. Certificates can also be awarded for having the high PFT Score and high Rifle Score in the Platoon, Series and Company.
In closing all Marines DO NOT get a certificate just for graduating boot camp.
Are you in line now Lars?
And Crickets from Lars, or is it crow feathers?
The 2017 version of the Participation Trophy for the little snowflakes.
Fuck me running.
As opposed to the ones they have been issuing for more than 30 years for completing basic training?
And you are talking about new soldiers. It is an asshat thing to do to call them snowflakes, Silent. It is not them that made this TRADOC policy. Now is this policy divergent from what basic training battalions were already doing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXCc3l8Jg6c Lars, you need to stop flapping your lips about what the Marines get for graduating boot camp.
Your biggest character flaw is trying to tell others what they know. I already posted TWICE about your bullshit claim that all Marines get certificates for graduating.
This is what Marines get.