Army opens field artillery jobs to women
Bobo sends us a link to the Military Times which reports that Army Chief of Staff Ray Odierno announced that the Army will open most jobs in the field artillery field of endeavor to female soldiers;
With the exception of the 13F military occupational specialty, “we have decided … we are not going to ask for a waiver to keep it closed,” said Army Chief of Staff Gen. Ray Odierno.
This decision, which opens up MOSs such as cannon crewmember (13B) and field artillery automated tactical data system specialist (13D), comes just weeks after the Army opened the combat engineer (12B) MOS to women.
It also follows a decision from more than a year ago to open all field artillery officer positions to women.
The 13 Foxtrot Military Occupational Specialty is Fisters (fire support specialists) who are usually assigned to support infantry and armor units, so I guess they’re waiting to see how those career fields fare in the realm of social engineers.
“We’ve done a lot of pilot programs, we’ve done a lot of physical testing, we’ve done a lot of testing on how we integrate women into units, and those are all going well,” Odierno said. “We want the best person, if they’re qualified and meet the standards, we want to give them the opportunity to do whatever they want.”
I can go along with that as long as they slap the hands of social engineers away from that standards thing.
Category: Politics
I hope that those women can meet the physical demands of the MOS.
Otherwise there are going to be some VERY unhappy survivors of the failed request for fire support looking to “talk” to them when they get back to the FOB.
IF they get back to the FOB. “Helluva price to pay for being stylish”
Those 155mm rounds must have gotten lighter.
Pretty sure the 155mm HE round still weighs just under 100lbs – without propellant. But the 105mm HE round still only weighs about
3342 lbs.Take the ones who can drag two boxes of 105 ammo (2 per box), for half the day, and policing brass and filling sandbags the rest of the day. I wonder if they know how much physical labor is involved.
Gimme’ 12 smokin’ hot Arttilery type female and I can get that calendar I have been working on for years!
Adds new meaning to the term “Gun Bunnies”, doesn’t it? *UH-OH* Political Incorrectness, gotta watch out for ARCOM-hungry finks again! 😀
It’s okay. You’re safe. Your deal with Bernath to smoke screen you with 8 different aliases worked perfectly.
lol
MCPO,
Here’s your January Gun-Babe … and probably the new “Patron Saint of Artillery” (step aside, St. Babs)
This IS my point and most people here get it!
As long as we don’t lower standards, there will be a decent handful of smokin’ hot female types who can and will!
I do not believe SPEC OPS, TIER 1 and or other units should be fair game.
I want to see the few snake eating and bullet spitting females with creds to set the same standard and insist on it while attracting like females …
We will be then, at least comforted that those who led the way, were the best!
Much un-like the way we peeled the female pilot issue!
Tragety first and selection and testing second is not how to do it!
Anyone know what I am talking about from a Navy point of view?
You talking about the female pilot who was pushed through and given wings despite her marginal to below acceptable performance in training? Sher endingf up getting killed off the coast of San Diego when she couldnt land her bird?
If I remember correctly, she circled around the carrier three times failing to properly approach for a landing and crashed into the stern.
I spent some time at COP Waza Khwa with a Field Artillery platoon and a Combat Engineer platoon. There was no other military presence there but for those two platoons (well there was Lt. COL and MSG that were a 2 man PRT)… no FETs. I am trying to calculate the additional layers of complexity that would have been necessary had those two platoons included female soldiers at such a small and remote COP.
I forsee a lot more female MLRS crewmembers vs tube artillery. FDC also.
Ya think?
We have had a female 13M in Alpha battery (HIMARS) for the last two years. She is a good troop no drama. We have drama with some of our male troops. As far as 155mm rounds go, I believe they are considered a two-man…er two soldier carry operation. I have not been in a 155 unit since we had the M109A5s, and they were all manual, and it was one man per round operation. The hydraulics usually crapped out after the first couple fire missions.105mm round are lighter, but they come in two-round crates, and there is a buttload of containers to unpack to get the rounds assembled. On top of the shit-ton of dunnage left over. Molly Pitcher will not replace St Barbara as our patron saint.
Loading is a three man job. Two cannoners put he round on a loading tray and set in on the opening of the breech. A third man uses a rammer staff to mush the round into the breech, one man takes the tray away then the other grabs the rammer staff and two men ram the round fully into the breech.
Seat
Home
Ready,,,, RAM.
Carrying the rounds from the ammo truck to the guy is a one man operation. If you were lucky trhe Ammo truck was anble to get close to the gun.
Handling a 200 lbs 8 inch round would have been fun to watch, especially while getting it in and out of the Special Weapons 109 van…
Yeah, three man evolution. When everything is working right, and the section is fully manned. I have executed hours of fire missions with a Gunner, and myself as a section chief on a M119A2 howitzer. Beef on trails and everything. Troop to task matrix, Ha. Reminds me of being snipe in the US Navy. A shitty no-glory job that nobody wants. We always parked the 548 right behind the howitzer, but usually one of the other guns would go down, so we had to pissant their ammo to our gun. Work with what you got.
“and the section is fully manned”.
The only time you’ll see that is on a mortar crew.
Isn’t this a job that you have to request, but only if you qualify for it?
If The Big They get no ‘volunteers’, are they going to assign women to these fields, even if they don’t want to be in them?
Artillery is a nasty job, targeting and being targeted. I do hope the women in it understand the risks and the hazards involved.
Is there any place I can file a complaint about wasting my tax money on these kinds of experiments, if they don’t work out?
Ex, I’ll try to answer your questions.
Yes, Yes, and Yes.
1):I’m sure female 13 series MOS’s will eventually become an enlistment option.
2): Once you have signed on the line, you become just another item in the inventory and at the convenience of the government, they will issue you out as needed to fill requisitions./sarc
3): Easy to file a complaint. Request to see the CMCPO/1SG and ask for a TS slip/chit. Then go see either “The Hair” or your local chaplain to get the chit/slip punched. The complaint won’t go any further than that, but you’ll get a warm fuzzy feeling that you’ve “stuck it to the man.”
Easy answers to easy questions.
Thanks, CLAW131.
Like I said elsewhere, this is a perfect MOS/job/rate for a male TG who self-ID’s as a girl. Where size and strength do matter, they’ll excel and you won’t have to worry about any of them getting/claiming preggers.
Yep, that’s going to work. No problems. The have the weight of a 155 howitzer down to just under 10,000 lbs. That’s better than the 98’s at 14,410 lbs.
With the average weight of one 155mm round being just over 100 lbs these days that should help too. Plus the power charges are only about half that now. I mean what can go wrong with this idea?
When they get their ammo drop a few hundred meters away they can probably roll the shit to the ammo pit given enough time.
It’s not like they have to provide their own local security or get turned into instant grunt with a call from Battalion. Nah, no problems with this so far.
They should probably try it somewhere a little farther away from Chicken Rd at Ft. Bragg and see what happens.
I would paint the bitch with red and white stripes and use her ass a an aiming stake. That’s about how useful they will be.
Yeah, but look at the bright side, DH.
It’s the perfect job/MOS for a TG who self-ID’s as a girl!
Okay, the aiming stake crack made me laugh. It might also be entirely accurate. When I went through BOLC, we had females present, and while they were fine humping one or two 155mm rounds 30m to the gun, they noticeably fell off if the numbers got any higher.105mm might be lighter, but that just means you can carry more at a time. Beef on trails? Forget it!
Now, in the FDC might work, so long as they have a thick skin and don’t go crying to the LT whenever the chief gives them the rough side of his tongue (mind out of the gutter, you).
This is not to say I haven’t met some farm girls who could hump ammo all day or salty broads who would make the roughest Gunny blush, but they tend to be thin on the ground and don’t always go into the artillery. In the end, biology is a bitch and I fear this will cause more problems than we really need
I agree, MB. But it appears the powers that be value PC over military effectiveness – so I’m reasonably sure it’s gonna happen, and “It will not fail.”
I am sure the Corps does things a bit different. For LF6F I had all my FDC, Comm, MT, people trained on the gun line. I had my Gunners and A-gunners trained in the FDC and Comm.
I understand the requirements of a MAU and BLT for LF6F are probably not the norm. I understand you intention with the farm girl comment but I have never met one that could hump ammo like that.
It really is bad enough with all men doing it. Artillery with a MAU are often instantly converted to grunts in order to meet the mission requirements.
Men are men and women are women, not greater or less than each other but different in their capabilities. No amount of social engineering will ever change that.
No argument, and to be perfectly honest, I’ve only met one I thought could hang for any amount of time. Of course, she became a comm officer….
Our FDC (HHB)is loaded with females, and they pull their weight. They do present a unified front whenever they have grievances, but so fa, all their complaints have been legitimate.
Out of curiosity, what MOSs do they hold?
Alpha has a couple 13M, and the females in our FDC are 13P. I think it is the same thing as 13D except for rockets.
I’m sorry folks but I am laughing my ass off over here! For all my cannon cocker brothers, this is going to give a whole new meaning to “Red Legs”, when it’s “that time of the month” for the ladies! 😀 😀 😀
How about “Cannon Cocker”?
It could add something to the terms “Cannon Cockers” or “Gun Bunnies”! *OOP!*, I gotta watch out for ARCOM-hungry finks again!!
Maybe not, I DO have a DD214, ya know!! 😀
Not to mention the phrase “laying the battery” – which does (or did) exist, is/was commonly used, and does/did NOT have a sexual implication.
Don’t forget “Base Piece”
That too. Along with a few similar terms. (smile)
Swab the tube
I thought they did that at sick call after you were a bad, bad boy . . . . (smile)
I hear one gets barrel droop after that.
I think that was for the Sad Sacks that failed the “Short Arm Inspection”!
Well, I guess this will give a whole new meaning to the term “Servicing the King of Battle”
They did this to Air Defense Artillery what, 25 years ago? It should work out the same this time. After all, they both have Artillery in their name.
Yeah, I’m sure it’ll work./sarc
Maybe Infantry and Artillery could flip flop chess piece names.
Don’t forget “fire in the hole” – you have to go to sick call for that one.
During our last AT, A young female soldier came up to me, and asked if I had the Donkey Dick. I sent her to SPC Snuffy, telling her that he was the one with the Donkey Dick. The PFC working with me started laughing (he is a member of LDS), and said that was the funniest thing he had heard since he joined the US Army (NG). I had to explain what the Donkey Dick was. He said,”still”. I am an old timer, but I have to give the young women some credit, they are tougher than expected.
My money thinks lots promotion’s for FA females. It will help out with EO and if you promote them fast a far enough they don’t have to do any heavy lifting with the gun teams.
p.s Buy getting rid of all our combat vets their is more room social experiment’s.
13F are the only part of artillery that should really be considered combat arms anyway.I’m not too worried about 13B and other artillery jobs opening up to women. This is probably the least damaging social experiment that has been done thus far
I wonder how the FA Units are going to fill vacancies for a deployment as soon as a number of their Female Personnel conveniently get pregnant shortly after the orders are posted or said females say “I think in pregnant!” to avoid going on a field problem, I heard women bragging about that stunt when I was AD and they opened the 12C MOS (Engineer Bridge Crewman) to females. Part of that MOS includes assembling Panel Bridges which includes a LOT of heavy lifting (That happened during the Clinton Curse).
AS a 12b I got the horror story’s from my 12c brothers about going coed. When it came time to build a bridge it was almost impossible.
Yep, especially an MGB (Medium Girder Bridge, known as the Mean Green BITCH) where the lower panels weighing 350 pounds apiece are carried by four personnel, worked up and down while being latched, and ditto for the upper panels weighing 200 pounds apiece and have to be hefted above one’s shoulders doing the same!
Half of our support battalion’s ambulance platoon got pregnant between the time we were alerted for DS/DS and the time we deployed. They all had abortions (we were in Germany) before we got back. A good number of the ambulance platoon who did deploy turned their ambulances into vehicles of ill repute and drove around to the battalion FOBs selling their wares at $75/pop.
There were volumes of stories of female personnel doing “Business on the side” on both of my ME Deployments, having them around turned camp life into a living soap opera!
And if there were women who didn’t do that, they were lesbians, right?
Instead of having some morals, they were either whores or lesbos.
Got it. Heard it before.
So LAME!!!
No, Ex-PH2 – some female troops on deployment were decent people, and had good morals.
Some didn’t. And a few in that group periodically decided to make a financial profit from the situation.
I thought that all female soldiers and Marines were lesbian and that those who were not stayed in the closet.
They were, except for those who were not.
That’s funny.
Yeah, but that was the common theme about women during the Vietnam War. Ask any nurse who was stationed over there, ship or shore.
That’s true. Never heard the same said for Navy or AF women, though.
No Ma’am, I saw and served with a fair share of Women who were fine Soldiers, I also had to put up with a number of self-crowned Snowflake Princesses who thought the Army owed them everything for nothing because of their gender, and yes, I heard that line from other Male Troops I served with.
Yep, “if the crackerbox is a rockin, don’t come a knockin” (until it’s your turn)
Just augmenting their G.I Bill.
So I guess every unit has a Slut Maintenance vehicle and every Barracks a Suzie Rottencrotch.
Conduct in a Combat Zone needs to focus on maintaining proper social conduct. We need to set the example during combat to win the hearts and minds of those we encounter.
The battle is not just won by killing the enemy, we need to win on the progressive social front as well.
CC DOD, SMA
I thought proper conduct in a combat zone was kill as many of the opposition as you can see, reach, smell or hear, and avoid getting yourself killed.
Go Away, Lars !!
Yeah, when I was AD, Barracks Trollops were in nearly every unit’s AO after hours and on weekends.
I’m pretty sure the above is satire, folks.
Did you just refer to the Progressive Policies that today’s military empathizes on proper interaction between warriors as satire?
What does that mean in English?
Sorry, you didn’t CC that comment to the DOD or the SMA.
No ARCOM for you !!
WHAT? No ARCOM? Well that does it, I’M OFFENDED!!
*Pacing around the room*
/sarc
Your words, not mine.
My MRBC (Multi-Role Bridge Company) deployed to Afghanistan in 2012. We had some females in both bridge platoons. We assembled panel bridges that were 20% bigger than the old Baileys. The panels and transom were moved into position mechanically. The female Charlies pulled their weight.
Well, yank my lanyard! It’s so empowering! And if the women can’t do what is now required, well sexist pigs wrote the standards so, naturally, they were written to exclude women. (It’s so easy to write that tripe.)
After an exhaustive probe into the matter, I might need to massage the thought until I am not so rigid with the thrust of my opinions.
It might not be all bad.
*DROOL*, now those are some “Gun Bunnies” I’d share my foxhole with ANYDAY!! 😀 *WHOOP!*, did I just say something that could piss off some thin-skinned ARCOM-hungry PC internet finks? I hope so!
Well, womyn would have been in this field long ago.
Well, except *math*
Can you make doilies out of old powder bags?
You probably could. But I wouldn’t recommend putting them anywhere near an ashtray, candles, or another source of sparks. (smile)
When an Arty Battery gets ammo delivered ALL HANDS should pitch in.
Pretty much anything you deal with, the guns themselves, ammo, section gear and nets weigh a lot.
Nobody wants a delicate princess sitting on their ass while everyone is sweating like a Mississippi preacher.
Yeah, but with all those TGMs who self-ID as women beating down the recruiting office doors to get into the military for snip-and-tuck procedures, this should be the perfect job/rate/MOS for them.
Solves the entire sexually-dysfunctional male soldier problem and fills the PC police force’s need to add wimmins to jobs that require extreme strength.
Hey, some women never forget how to have fun:
http://nypost.com/2014/04/08/elderly-residents-wanted-those-strippers-nursing-homes-lawyer/
When Big Army started talking about integrating females into Combat Arms MOS’ it was made plain that they would be integrated at ALL levels. Since then I’ve been waiting for the time I have a female 1SG who was involuntarily reclassed to 11Z from 92Z and/or a branch detailed 2LT who knows she’ll be in a comfy S1 position after a year or two. Worse would be battalion level and higher. Imagine CSM Teresa “No Slack” King (remember her?) as the CSM for an Infantry battalion or BCT.
I kinda hope to get Benning if this Drill Sergeant thing works out. Then again, I realize that I’ll probably be training some of the first females who enlisted for CMF 11 or 19 MOS’. As an NCO I’d embrace the challenge, but until such a thing happens I dread the thought.
Teresa king has been polishing up her Wikipedia page a lot. Its still the white Devil’s fault.
Well, now that I’ve assessed all of your complaints about wimmins in the combat zone, I can only say the following:
1 – The term ‘hookers’ allegedly comes from Civil War-era camp followers who trailed along behind Gen. Joe Hooker’s troops, although that term had been in use since 1945.
2 – Some will complain about their periods and cramps. Some will complain about damage to their manicure. Some will complain just to hear themselves complain. Some would complain if they were hung with a brand new rope.
3 – Expect the same thing from TGMs who self-ID as wimmins, but since they’re dysfunctional idiots, just treat them like 3rd-class citizens.
4 – Some men are special snowflakes, too. They’re called goldbrickers. When you ask them what they’re doing, they will sometimes respond with ‘as little as possible’. Most of the time, they hang out and yack and avoid work. And they will always take the last cup and first cup of coffee out of the pot, but never make any themselves.
5 – Some of my species are good, willing workers who don’t act like damned fools and pull their fair share of the load, but we get a ration of shit from the slackers, which we do not appreciate. A smart LPO/1SGT will know who we are.
EEEKK! TYPO!!!!
‘1945’ should be ‘1845.’
But the 64 dollar question yet to be answered is:
Can they break track all by themselves?
Until that is answered, all attempts at social engineering women into Combat Arms are just exercises in futility.
Until they’re assigned to do it, we will not know.
You don’t have to be assigned a Combat Arms MOS in order to break track.
You can be a medic, a supply weenie, a personnel admin clerk, a commo wire dog, or any number of other combat service/support jobs and still have to break track. I’ve even seen Chaplain’s assistants and Intel geeks break track.
Breaking track is an equal opportunity employer.
These days we refer to “goldbrickers” as “shammers” or “sham artists”, same thing, different name.
I’ve read about all I wish to read from the above blogs and I will say one thing, either some of you are playing with your better part of your brains, or you know very little or nothing about the fine arts of how the Arty. works, or if females are ready to handle the job in being a crew member on a 90 mm Anti aircraft M1A1, and what it take when the order comes to “March Order”. I spent 2 years as a Gun Commander with the 705th AAA Gun Bn. during the Korean war, and I will tell you one thing, the female is no person to be counting on when its time to move one of these 90mm from one inplacement to another. I’ve been hearing all this bull shit about Women In Combat,etc. and to this day I still say, the womens place is still home in the kitchen doing what she does best, and not out in the field getting her boobs blowen away, END OF STORY.
No Reply is needed, I’am heading back to the fields, I’ll be back later on to see just what some of you think about my blog, as if I give a shit.
Where the tall corn grows
AAAWW c’mon Sam, take a deep breath and tell us whatchya really think about this! /SARC
Sam, if you’re able to get into your fields there in Iowa, you’re doing a hell of a lot better than my folks are back in Indiana. Still way too wet in many places.
Good luck and keep her high and dry.
You’re nothing if not a sweet talker, Sam.
The “Big Lie” has a life of its own now!
I was a 13D for 24 years retiring in 2008 and I currently work on Ft Sill. Knew it was going to happen a couple of years ago, with the combining of the 13D and 13P MOS’s this would allow females in every unit whether rockets or cannon. Now I don’t know how the horn dogs I had in M1068 in 2003 in Iraq with the 3rd ACR would have reacted to females in the section, would have been interesting.