How to formally arm our troops
The terrorist organization known as ISIS has made it clear that a part of its jihadist war plan against America is carrying out so-called “lone wolf” attacks aimed primarily against members of our military and possibly their families. The attacks in Chattanooga by an apparent Islamic lone wolf are the latest result of that terror tactic. We can only guess as to what the future holds for American warriors and their families. We should not wait to find out.
Our first step should be to end this foolishness of sending our military personnel out into harm’s way unarmed. ISIS cells and individuals operating in this country are well aware that military recruiters are sitting ducks in their glass-paned, storefront offices, as was made evident in Chattanooga. They also know something that most Americans do not: the incredible reality that our reserve and National Guard personnel serving in their armories and operations centers spread throughout this country also are unarmed when conducting their routine duties and training. There may be weapons present, but they are secured and signed out to personnel only when they are conducting combat preparation training within the boundaries of official military installations, or when they have been ordered into policing duties following community disasters, when armed looting prevention may be required.
One of the first objections to allowing these military personnel to go armed, even from those serving, is that many, especially the newer troops, who are usually the youngest members as well, do not have the training in personal security defense to allow them to carry firearms safely. As some combat warriors have pointed out, even those who have served in combat zones are not necessarily trained in personal security in a working environment surrounded by unarmed civilians.
Accepting that as true, why not train those who are potential targets of terrorist attacks in effective armed responses to such attacks? Completion of the initial training should be noted in their permanent records. Annual requalification training such as is now done for all arms training in the active forces should be a requirement to maintain their status as Personal Arms Qualified, or PAQ. This training should be uniform across all services – active duty, reserves, and National Guard – for those personnel whose duties place them at risk of terrorist acts. Importantly, PAQ should not be limited to off-base personnel. Every active unit should have most of its members qualified, with PAQ duty being rotated so that several troops are armed and on heightened alert at any given time. PAQ should permit service members to carry their weapons off post so that they are armed 24/7, affording protection to their families. States should be urged to accept PAQ as equal to their own permitting requirements for the carrying of weapons.
Just as with the training, PAQ should be formalized across all services, with a universal qualification badge to be awarded and prominently worn by all service members on all service uniforms when their duties require them to go armed. Basic Personal Arms Qualification should probably involve sidearms only in its initial phase, with advanced training and qualifications in shoulder-fired automatic weapons to follow for key personnel so designated by their commanders. Such qualification could be shown by imposing crossed rifles on the PAQ badge or by other means. There should be a minimum of one person so qualified and so armed on duty at every off-post military work site when troops are present.
When lone wolf or group attackers begin to be met with a full-on barrage of automatic return fire augmented by semi-automatic pistol fire from behind better fortified workplaces, their effectiveness and their lifespans will be greatly diminished.
Crossposted at American Thinker
Category: Politics
“not necessarily trained in personal security in a working environment surrounded by unarmed civilians.” yeah cause there weren’t any civilians down range, complicating ROE.
Big Army will totally go for this plan once they get to the part about a new badge though
[…] leaders of this nation have got to be the biggest morons I have ever seen in my life! AGREED… How to formally arm our troops : This ain't Hell, but you can see it from here For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the […]
Let’s use this as a starting point for discussion: aren’t federal agents and law enforcement at the state/county/ community levels allowed and/or encouraged to carry when off duty? Why shouldn’t this apply to the military on duty?
LEOs are allowed to carry in accordance with LEOSA which trumps local and state laws. It has a narrow scope that doesn’t include the military. Drafting a similar law for military personnel off post is the way to make that happen. It needs to be done.
We have many full time National Guardsman come off post to eat and shop every day in our town. I’d love for all those guys to be armed. Most are combat vets from combat arms branches.
We were required by our Rules & Regulations to be armed while off duty….and yes, there were a few exceptions.
A few points: NG/Reserve armories are different situations from recruiting stations. Armories and reserve centers are federal or state military installations, so the federal or state authorities have both the responsibility and authority to secure them. This could be DoD or state police, which would be expensive, but probably a more viable option. Recruiting stations are in strip malls or other commercial properties. Local and state police have both the responsibility and authority to keep these areas secure. They also have the ability, especially if the federal government allocates funds. Not sure about other services, but Army Staff Duty Officers were armed in the late ’70s and early ’80s, but it was for protection against the troops, not against an external threat. Drug use use and violence in the barracks in the post VN drawdown military was that bad. Existing policy prohibiting POWs in the barracks exists because of the high levels of violence among the troops. Keep in mind that the deadliest terrorist attacks on military installations in recent history have been carried out by military personnel. You have literally thousands of young people selected and trained for their aggressiveness getting drunk and stupid every weekend. Arming recruiters briefs well and makes us feel like we are taking action, but there are several problems we would have to work through. In the end we would be better off funding local police or assigning MPs or USAF SF to provide security- even hiring private security. -Authorities: While every citizen has a right to defend themselves, uniformed troops in the commission of their duties are not acting as private citizens, and do not typically have law enforcement authorities. The exceptions are some MPs, CI Agents, etc, but this is a question of federal law, not DoD policy. An individual in civilian clothes in the U.S. would have to be presumed to be a U.S. person, which complicates things. This creates a potential for a federal troop to shoot and kill a U.S. Citizen on public ground. . -Training. Most ground service troops (Army and Marine) recruiters are trained in small arms.… Read more »
These dickless wannabe not-warriors are going to pick anything they see as a soft target, not just military personnel and/or their families. The attack on the shopping mall in Nairobi, Kenya, last year is something that should taken as a warning to all of us, military or not, that we are considered too ineffective and fearful to defend ourselves from harm.
The flip side of that is that we aren’t like that at all, as has been pointed out regularly on TAH and other blogs that feature people stopping heinous acts as they happen.
Sure, my Walmart and Aldi are vulnerable. But so is the gas station out on the highway. And so is the restaurant where I can spend all afternoon on a cold, rainy day editing and proofreading a manuscript, one that is regularly frequented by military people from a nearby base.
It does not take arms and armor to defeat these people. It takes a prepared mind, a willingness to step up as did that former Marine/now firefighter when he stopped a thief from robbing a gas station, and a pissed attitude that says “this is MY country, not yours, scumbag”.
The idea that we are soft and weak and fearful is a delusion that ISIS feeds itself, probably because they watch too much CNN and not enough FOX. 🙂 Those cary videos of gruesome murders of the innocent? They have no idea what we are capable of when we are pissed off Americans.
We started laughing when it was confirmed that American idiots who joined ISIS’ and were killed during a firefight, bodies weren’t claimed by family members. As one father stated “he disgraced our family, I don’t care what they do with his body”.
i do not have an issue with anything that you said and am all for the training.
BUT, I feel like every civilian has the right to protect selves without the training, why should it be different for a citizen just because they happen to be a service member?
My feeling is that any military personnel is already trained better than any civilian. Go ahead and give them the right to defend themselves and anyone around them
In other words, if a civilian has the right to carry a firearm for protection without specialized training, a military member should too.
Civilians have lots of rights soldiers do not. While I support these soldiers (or at least some of them) being armed on duty, I don’t think having everybody allowed to carry all the time is remotely sane. Weapons in the barracks instead of the arms room is a terrible idea.
And there’s the liberal pantywaist coming out yet again.
I would imagine that a good policy for barracks would be appropriate and I am certain that whoever is on CQ or the runner being armed would suffice for anything except a full on platoon sized attack.
Go back to Madison, Berkeley or Seattle or wherever you used to live and tell them all your stories of doom that came from those of us that are serious about protecting ourselves and out country at the same time…
Libs… Sheesh…
Dude are you insane or unable to read? CQ would be on duty and having the CQ be armed makes perfect since. Having every fucking Pvt in the Bs armed all the time is a disaster. you have clearly never been in a barracks. So I will take myself back to Ft. Bragg where I used to live with my tales of how drunk and stupid 18 y/o Pvts are. I am not talking about expanding unconstitutional gun control laws, I am talking about good order and discipline in a unit. Idiot.
I bet you post angry comments on DuffelBlog to don’t ya?
Much the same reason that any civilian can carry on his own time, but he may be forbidden from doing so by his employer. That’s perfectly legal and not an infringement on anyone’s rights.
I served eight years and never fired a pistol until I became a cop. Military experience does not always equate to proficiency with personal weapons. Training is the key. I agree it should be incorporated into basic training and then upheld through semi annual training.
Shooting is a perishable skill; I would add that semi-annual weapons qualification isn’t really enough to maintain proficiency.
You hit the nail on the head. Training is key.
These days, everyone that thinks that they should or can carry a firearm believes they an expert in all things related. While some may be, most are not. Proficient in the weapons system; yes, Proficient in all things potentially related; no.
Its the intangibles that are key. Situational awareness, proportional response, coordination, economy of force, target detection, threat alleviation, etc.
Just wait until an errant round (God forbid) strikes a baby carriage in the background. In the box it happened and no one back here gave a damn. Watch what happens when it does at the intersection of Main and Maple Streets.
I actually agree, as stated, that SM’s should protect themselves. But these other assets listed above MUST be taught. Cavalier attitudes are not going to help the SM or bystanders in the event of Allahman crashing through the door (and God forbid they do not start using VBIEDS). Training, technical proficiency, disciple and “battle drills” will.
Oh, and get ready for the background and PTSD (the public will insist)checks for folks carrying off post. Those “interim SC’s” are not going to cut it anymore.
I don’t believe there is a boot camp anywhere that doesn’t have firearm training…ARM THEM!@ and someone kick the pervert bubba clinton square in the ass, he is the one that disarmed our military on base, and he is personally responsible for every one of these deaths, including fort hood! The coward in the white house disarmed our military IN A WAR ZONE, because the chicken shyt was going to visit there!
When I was a supply sergeant, I carried my pistol going to and from the Armory. During the duty day, it was right beside me in my desk drawer. When I went to the “warehouses” to drop off or pick up supplies, it was on my hip. I also know that most of the AGRs (active guard reservists) carried to and from. Yes, we were violating regulations, but each of us would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
We even all set aside time to “qualify” with it in the indoor range at the armory in front of the 1SG (who also qualified with his). Just to make sure we knew how to use it if we had to.
This was long before those magic unicorn shields that were the gun-free zone signs. Back when we knew they were going to attack us where we were vulnerable. Too bad the career politicians would rather believe their view of the world than the reality outside of their plush offices.
Before I was retired I was given USAREC As a job site that being said. Almost all of us that had a combat arms background and a few others had guns, we all saw the writing on the wall….
http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/521056p.pdf
All someone in the multi-sided building has to do is grow a pair and implement this DoD directive.
Why have a directive if it won’t be used??
As it stands now, the average Sailor is definitely not trained adequately to do this. I went to boot camp when John Paul Jones was a recruit, but I can’t imagine the minimal weapons training we got has changed much. Certainly not to the level of the USA or USMC. I am damn sure the USAF is in the same boat the USN is.
Having said that, I am 110% for training them up. The faster, the better.
Bullshyt! I had firearm training in the Navy and I also had an opportunity to fire .45’s for a pistol team tryout!
IMO
Their will no time or budget allotments to train the troops in self defense. The five side asylum is gonna give a 112% of everything to welcome the trans genders into the force. New barracks new power point briefings and lots of sensitivity training.
More trigger time is required. Quarterly re-quals is what I think makes better shooters. That means ranges have to be scheduled, ammo requisitioned, DA 581s have to be filled out, residue turned in, blah blah blah. The qualifying factor for arming troops should be (quality)range time, and participation in the details involved in making it happen. There should be other controls also, lack of NJP, personality dispositions etc… We should be armed because that is what we are (armed forces), but some knuckleheads can not be trusted with a car, or alcohol let alone a firearm.
In the 70s and prior in was general practice for the OOD, SDNCO, and SGT of the guard to be armed.
A return to that type of policy is warranted and appropriate (at the current time) to the threat.
I can see it coming, and so can you. How long before the trannies & “others” are going to start complaining about being “offended” by the sight of a weapon in the immediate vicinity?
Truth of the matter is this: none of our damned politicians, including Obuckoff, give two damned cents about anyone in service or anyone who has served. They care less about anything except themselves; it’s all about them, nothing else! When will the public finally wake up and see ALL these POS are leading us directly into the path of destruction? This country used to be a respected leader among countries. Now it is a cave-in follower with no back bone. Look at Iran. ANY fu____g idiot can see the intention there. Anyone see where they gave even a tiny shit about the four Americans being held there in prison? We are being led down the path to quickly becoming the laughing stock of the world. And we let it happen!!! My belief is that most who post on this site really know the truth, but they have yet to understand the word “ORGANIZE” and how it can turn things around.
How long/ This is my ‘give-a-shit’ face. Jarhead.
I hope they are DEEPLY offended, so much so that they avoid the military like the plague.
If a Service Member is offended at the sight of a weapon, they should be given a Less Than Honorable discharge and told to get the fuck out of the ARMED Forces. Maybe they would feel better as mall security.
They’ll keep getting elected because they give particular groups what they want to hear during their 12 second attention span before they cast their vote.
Sure, there are millions who get free stuff out of politicians they vote for as well, but that’s how they become career politicians and stay in DC for 30-50 years. And those politicians have millions waiting for them once they finally do retire.
Something like this already exists. The USMC has (or had) a course called “High Risk Personnel”, taught by the Weapons Training Battalion at Quantico. The course was designed to prepare people like Defense Attaches and other DOD personnel who might be deployed to high-threat locations overseas and might have to carry concealed weapons for self-protection. It was five days long, completely focused on concealed carry defensive pistol, with the first four days being live fire (mostly on steel plates with a PACT timer), and the final day scenario-based force-on-force with simunitions. It was a good course; if DOD simply copied it and spread it out to all the services, it would be a good way to achieve this objective.
But that would cost too much money and make the military way too mean and capable of killing. Who would want that?
They are too busy spending money to recruit the LBGT crowd, coming up with expensive new mandatory training for troops to do and paying the NFL to be “patriotic” by buying spotlight time. I could mention all the perks, benefits, travel, etc., that the high mucky-mucks do, but that’s a given.
I don’t understand the purpose of the “badge” you suggest. Why? Why not let the jihadis guess who’s Matt Dillon and who’s Festus? There’s too many badges on uniforms now as it is.
OldCorpsTanker72….assuming you were 1811, we might have another perspective in common. That being, a CCP to me is my choice over an Open Carry Permit. Not only to have the hidden element of surprise, but also not to go looking for controversy or trouble.
I would suspect we probably have a lot of perspectives in common. But I was an 1802.
By any freak chance, any time with 3rd Mar Div between ’66 & ’69? Better yet, USMCVTA member?
Tanker, to get the attention of the perfumed princes in the Pentagon, it helps to dangle something bright and shiny in front of them.
Also, at the present time all the services have their own distinct means of demonstrating weapons qualification. A service-wide badge would eliminate that confusion plus it might help the services get on board with such a program.
Regarding the issue of too many badges, perhaps the establishing regulation could specify that the PAQ badge be worn only when the person is carrying or in possession of a weapon and in lieu of any other marksmanship badge.
Believe me Tanker, this old Vietnam vet does not have answers to all the objections, I’m just trying to come up with something to protect our young troops. Every politician on television is saying we have to arm the troops but no one is saying how. Being a former NCO, I know the insanity of a universal arming of the troops so a medium ground needs to be established. That’s all my piece is, a suggested starting point.
How about they just qualify and don’t tell anyone? It goes into their records. The Navy gives out ribbons/medals for pistol/rifle stuff. The Marine Corps has its dingle-dangle bling.
Why make it easy for someone who is looking for a target and wants to pick a fight with large or small arms? The element of surprise always works better.
I can’t remember where I read this, perhaps it was the Book Pacific about the Marines island hopping across the pacific. One of the young marines mused that here he was, storming an enemy held beach protected by only one layer of cotton poplin. At least he had something to shoot back at the enemy. Our boys go into a no gun zone protected by only one layer of gaberdine or one layer of polyester blend. And they can’t shoot back.
If One Out of the Five or six recruiters had Been ” ON Duty” and armed The situation May well have ended differently. The NON Military commenters ASSUME that Our Shore duty Marines, sailors, Airman and Soldiers, would Be carrying weapons 24/7/365… Not True, or necessary. AS a recruit instructor in the 70’s and eighties, each “compartment Had a Forward Compartment watch symbolically Armed…with a Deactivated A303(1975) or an Inactivated M1 Garand in the 1983… Imposition of Military discipline and the use of ACTIVE arms would Not be Much of a step to take.
There mere fact we are even having to justify having military members armed because they are forced to be unarmed while in uniform with zero force protection just shows how unbelievably fucking retarded our society has become.
If you can’t supposedly trust someone in the military to carry a loaded weapon without shooting everything within 100 yards either that person shouldn’t be in the military or you need to grow a pair and quit being afraid of firearms. It’s that simple.
I mean what are we going to do next start deploying troops without weapons because of a hypothetical what if and sit there trying to check off every possible training scenario class and accreditation before?
Good fucking grief.
U.S. Grant had the perfect mindset when dealing with his opponents. During the 1864 campaign His staff officers were planning and talking about Lee may do this,,, Lee May do that…
Grant finally got fed up and told them to stop worrying about what Lee was going to do, figure out what They would do to Lee.
Bottom line is is our POTUS had any balls he would be having airstrikes hitting ISIS until their assholes were sucking buttermilk
Old Dog, do you REALLY expect bodaprez to exhibit any kind of leadership after all this time? Seriously?
He’s just marking time until he can fly back to Hawaii and play endless rounds of golf. He doesn’t even have enough interest in the so-called presidential library to show up for more than 15 minutes to support locating it somewhere.
Why would you expect him to show any kind of leadership at all, especially now?
There is someone shooting at you. He wants to kill you. You are his target because you wear a military uniform of the US Armed Forces. He doesn’t want your money. This isn’t a personal grudge. He doesn’t know you. He simply wants to kill you because you are wearing a uniform. WTH is there to discuss? The only question should be how quickly recruiters and others most likely to be targets can be trained and issued weapons to protect themselves. This may mean having to put transgender issues aside for a few weeks. I understand that, but even the Pentagon has to make sacrifices sometimes.
BIG Question..when ISIS sneak into America, “will the Military ask Veterans who served, and those retired to return to activate duty? A friend said the Military could order them back to service.
The answer is yes.
Ex-PH2, Thanks for your answer.Knowing they’ll get retired Military reliefs some anxiety. I know the National Guard and retired law enforcement will be called in. I worry about JOE civilian who has no clue about weapons, security of their homes, etc. Way before 911, we stocked up on everything from thick plywood, nails, duct tape, plastic, dehydrated food in five gallon buckets, everything that would be needed to survive. During the years it took fill the place up, my son said “what about our friends who didn’t prepare”? I still don’t have a good answer. WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
Here’s my plan:
1. All NCOs must become qualified with a pistol. All NCOs must go through some sort of personal defensive weapons course. Add the training to NCOES as a mandatory event for all levels, E-5 through E-9, so that it is retrained periodically. It becomes a BAR/FLAG event if you fail to maintain qualification.
2. All Staff Duty NCO’s and CQ’s if they are NCOs will be armed with a side arm. Personally I’d do it old school with a white pistol belt and holster. Weapon is maintained at an amber status with appropriate ROE for upgrading that status. I’d also consider arming all guards. Nothing wrong with arming the motor pool guard or the AHA guard, ect… but I’d start with Staff Duty and CQ
3. No concealed carry while on-duty unless specifically authorized by CO.
4. Allow off duty, on-post concealed carry. No weapons in the barracks for E-4 and below.
5. Same training requirements, but require one NCO on recruiting duty in a recruiting station to be armed. Maintain a safe in the station to secure the weapon. Its a rotating duty that prevents the NCO from leaving the station, he would do admin paperwork on that day. He would be responsible for security of the recruiting station that day.
Here’s a thought to consider. Go into a recruiting center and nobody is armed. All, by the way, members of the armed forces.
Go into any police station and every single swinging dick is armed to the teeth.
So answer the question before I ask.
Everyone is walking around with their weapons in every cop shop. IT SHOULD BE EXACTLY WHAT THE RECRUITERS SHOULD BE DOING. I understand that their in a office, but isn’t it considered a part of the Military?
If a robber/thief were to rob a recruitment office (not knowing the only cash is in the wallets of the recruiters) is it a Federal/Military crime? If the answer is yes, then they should carry weapons.
“One of the first objections to allowing these military personnel to go armed, even from those serving, is that many, especially the newer troops, who are usually the youngest members as well, do not have the training in personal security defense to allow them to carry firearms safely.”
That this is not taught in Basic to ALL troops of EVERY service is a disgrace and an utter failure of the entire chain of command.
And it doesn’t take SWAT- or SPECOPS-level training to be prepared to defend oneself or others.
EVERY military member should be armed at ALL times and ALL locations, no questions asked.
If there’s a problem with personnel reliability, you get rid of the unreliable people, and court-martial the fuckwads responsible for accepting them, passing them on, and not previously getting rid of them.
If there’s a lack-of-training problem, you train the personnel to an acceptable standard, get rid of the ones who can’t be trained, and hunt down those responsible for the lack and, after a fair trial for treason and sabotage, execute them. (That would be Brass, Civilian admin AND Congress-fuckwads.)
Problem- SOLVED.