VA’s solution to backlog; destroy claims records
I saw Concerned Veterans for America CEO Pete Hegseth on Fox this morning talking about a recording of a meeting at Veterans’ Affairs in which they discussed a solution to their serious backlog of veterans’ claims. That solution was to toss records, because they were beginning to look bad, according to a whistleblower, Oliver Mitchell, also a former Marine, as reported at The Daily Caller;
VA Greater Los Angeles Radiology department chief Dr. Suzie El-Saden initiated an “ongoing discussion in the department” to cancel exam requests and destroy veterans’ medical files so that no record of the exam requests would exist, thus reducing the backlog, Mitchell said.
Audio from a November 2008 meeting obtained by TheDC depicts VA Greater Los Angeles officials plotting to cancel backlogged exam requests.
“I’m still canceling orders from 2001,” said a male official in the meeting.
“Anything over a year old should be canceled,” replied a female official.
“Canceled or scheduled?” asked the male official.
“Canceled. … Your backlog should start at April ’07,” the female official replied, later adding, ”a lot of those patients either had their studies somewhere else, had their surgery … died, don’t live in the state. … It’s ridiculous.”
Here’s the recording;
When Mitchell blew the whistle on the operation, he was transferred to another department. The VA OIG simply made the department aware of Mitchell’s complaint instead of taking appropriate action. When Mitchell went to Congress with his complaint, he was fired from the DVA. Mitchell claims that the practice was not only a local problem, but rather a nationwide solution to the DVA’s backlog problem.
Here’s Pete Hegseth on the issue at about 3:50 into the video;
Category: Veteran Health Care, Veterans Issues, Veterans' Affairs Department
If I remember correctly, when the prez said that the backlog would be addressed, TAH correctly predicted that this would be the outcome.
Welcome to single payer, America. Cause and effect can be a real bitch.
This has nothing to do with VA Disability Claims. This was a VA Hospital in LA discussing a backlog of appointments for Radiology exams. (Not that it excuses what happens, just want to be clear on what did occur)
There was a backlog nationwide and the solution was to eliminate from the system all request older than “6” months of patients who had received the imaging services or those services were no longer needed, and those that were still needed were to be rescheduled.
No “Medical Records” were destroyed. Medical Records are not the same thing as the “electronic request” being discussed. I work in HIMS for the VA, and we do not destroy records, we archive the inactive and deceased records, and are in the process of preparing to scan into the electronic record those Patients who are currently active and have paper records here at the VA. again, Medical records were not being destroyed, the appointment request was being removed from the system.
Also VHA(Veterans Healthcare) does not handle claims. All Claims Records are maintained by the VA Regional Offices, to include the VA Claim Medical Record. cancelling an appointment for any reason would in no way effect the actual medical record.
What happened out there in L.A… sounds like they went over the top and had a huge backlog with regards to medical care for veterans and they took the opportunity that the directive presented to them to purge themselves of the backlog entirely. Hoping someone gets fried for it, if that is in fact the case of what happened. Even though no records were destroyed, delaying care by eliminating those request for radiology services certainly could have negatively impacted a veterans care and health.
The VA IG are worthless.
Better yet, assign an unqualified physician to administer the tests.
Par for the course.
“But they are out there, though. I just did one today from 2002.” That statement refers to a patient whose test paperwork should have been destroyed to eliminate the backlog–but wasn’t. Immediately thereafter, Doktor Suzie El-Saden says that these patients are probably dead or out of state or something so…. This is outlandish. This is sickening. Phukers.
I’m glad they got this on audio. If not, that old Jedi mind trick could have been used. And may still yet be used if the VA can get some other wag the dog tale going. Why is the beret guy still around?
@3. Whaddaya mean no records were destroyed? When Veterans are on a list for an exam or test and the lists are subject to a “massive purge” what do you call the purged list? I call it destroyed.
“I work in HIMS for the VA, and we do not destroy records, we archive the inactive and deceased records, and are in the process of preparing to scan into the electronic record those Patients who are currently active and have paper records here at the VA. again, Medical records were not being destroyed, the appointment request was being removed from the system.” Yeah, I get it. As you said recently, end odf story.
Rb325th, while what you say is accurate, it is still suspicious. My medical jacket has never been found. I’m not the only one, either. I know of at least four other service members who have the same problem, and that’s just at the local VA where I live in Oregon.
If this had the whistle blown in one place, it is going on in others.
Semantics. Wordplay. Games. These requests or orders for tests were for real human beings, some of whom presumably died with the order or request unfilled. And I can speculate, just as Doktor Suzie did about the patients’ disappearances, that some of the deceased Veterans died because their tests WERE NOT DONE and what the tests would have revealed was not found in time to save them. So, while Doktor Suzie is directing her underlings to purge the lists of tests orders or requests older than 2007 (!), one of her little putschniks tells her he just handled someone from 2002.
The Medical record was not destroyed, and this had nothing to do with the Claims Process or veterans Claims backlogs.
It was only meant to apply to Patients whose appointment request was unfilled after 6 months and who had already recieved the exam, or no longer needed it, and all others were to be resubmitted.
As I stated, if it indeed happened in LA that they used it as an means to eliminate wholesale their backlog then they should be fried for it.
There is a HUGE difference between a request for a procedure like a radiology exam and the Medical record. They are not one in the same and no patients Medical Record was destroyed as is implied by the articles title and the opening blog post. Nor as implied, was this used as a means to eliminate a backlog at the VBA. Completely separate issues.
@10. I am not arguing that what happened in LA, if it did indeed happen as claimed was not wrong. We have veteran dying because of delays in colonoscopies for fucks sake. What I am saying is that what is being stated about medical records as most people know them being destroyed is wrong, and that this had nothing to do with the claims process as was stated. Capice? Believe me, I am not defending the VA about the LA case, but it just was not what was claimed. It has nothing to do with VA Claims, and Medical Records as most people understand were not being destroyed. @9 I have a missing record as well, and that is an entirely separate issue to what has been discussed. Missing records are a huge problem, and there is no doubt about that. The records system VA wide was not uniform and even within regions it is extremely inconsistent. A huge part of my job right now is trying to track down and locate missing records, and many that the computer says exist are ghost records. They were created on the system but never physically created. Then we have Records created before the current computer system used that do not exist in it because no one thought to add them into it. Granted most of those are for veterans WWII or prior and many are likely deceased but we are trying to get them to where we can get them to the Archives. I have records with bar codes on them from in one case 5 different VAMC’s… so you look up the record in the computer and it tells you there are 50 Volumes, only 10 really exist though. Or someone created a Volume 3 and there are now 10 but Volume 3 never really got made… but you cannot eliminate it because some volumes are here, others at another VAMC locally and others on the other side of the world or in the Archives already. Oh hell, let’s talk about the Archives… They changed the system for how boxes of… Read more »
Remember kids, this is the kind of healthcare system that the low-information voters wanted, and put their main proponent into office.
Twice.
Open question, did anybody hear the word resheduling for the Vets? Hmmmm Joe
The VA lost my records twice..Once I can forgive, but twice is inexcusable. I made copies of all my records, and when they wanted my copies I told them flat out, you can have copies of my copies but I’m not giving you another chance to screw the pooch. 2 years later I finally got my claim but only after getting a Senator involved because they were dragging their feet. I do not have much faith in the VA right now.
rb325th: While intellectually I understand what you are saying. HOWEVER If they are willing to delete appointment/procedure requests as a viable means of “clearing the backlog”, how we we know the same isn’t happening with initial claims?
I’m not saying they are, I’m just saying that the optics aren’t very good and combined with all the other “issues” the VA is having it is very clear that no matter how many times they tell us: “we are working to fix the problem(s)”, nothing could be farther from the truth.
How can we trust the VA anymore, when the people who are trying to fix/ raise awareness of the problem(s) are transferred/fired, the people perpetuating the problem are left alone, and the VA IG can’t seem to find its backsides with both hands?
While I know there are good people working in the VA, the department as a whole needs some serious help.
-Ish
Enough is enough? Says who? The president? Eric Shinseki? Dr. Suzie El-Saden? Oliver Mitchell? Spec4 Joe Smith?
How many presidents, congresses and VA Directors doses it take?
Toss a RICO statute on the VA and go for some federal indictments or simply privatize. Something has to give. Well status quo is what it is…
Last year I requested a rating exam. As always, I have the DAV running point for me. It took them 4 months to schedule the 1st appointment (there should have been two, for two separate issues). I arrived and the rating exam was performed by a Physician’s assistant who was, to put it charitably, “having a bad day.” She rushed through the exam and when I had a couple questions she told me bluntly that she didn’t have time to answer my questions, that SHE would be asking questions. She also informed me that she wanted two further tests done in order to help her make her recommendations. Fine, I said.
Imagine my surprise when, not 6 weeks later, I get a letter from the VA telling me that the board has concluded that there is no change in my condition, and no increase warranted. They hadn’t even scheduled the tests the examiner wanted! Eventually I was scheduled and the tests were done. The DAV filed an appeal on my behalf (last November) and just yesterday I received a letter from the VA that they’ve received my request and will be scheduling a rating exam for me. Facepalm.
Certainly one way to “clear the backlog” is what they did for me. Quick in&out exam, declare no change warranted and BLAMMO! Problem solved.
I am in complete agreement that a RICCO case ought to be brought against the VA and a bunch of heads start rolling.
I have NEVER had a problem with the VA as far as my primary care physician, or with any of the times I had surgery, etc. The doctors and nurses were all really good people, and I have no truck with them. It’s the bureaucracy that’s the problem. THAT is where the RICCO case should focus.
Here is my question, and correct me if I am wrong/reading too much into it, because this line sticks out at me:
“Canceled. … Your backlog should start at April ’07,” the female official replied, later adding, ”a lot of those patients either had their studies somewhere else, had their surgery … died, don’t live in the state. … It’s ridiculous.”
If they are ONLY cancelling appointments (and it seems to be appointments) of of those Vets who are deceased, had surgery, moved, etc. etc. then I don’t really see a problem. That would be freeing up spots for other Vets who need appointments. And really, how is a deceased Vet or Vet who has transfeered to another state/VISN going to keep or make it in for an appointment? Then the issue becomes why wasn’t the VA cancelling these kinds of issues and appointments years ago to free up more spaces?
However, if they are arbitrarily cancelling appointments for those who need them to clear a backlog and look good on VA measurables (and I would not put it past the VA), then yes, heads need to roll. Many heads need to roll.
@16 I have no clue what goes on in the Regional Offices regarding Claims. VA is broken down into three completely separate and autonomous Agencies. VHA(healthcare), VBA(claims), VCA(cemetery).
I think the comments in #18 pretty much describe how they run things…
I spent 45 minutes on hold trying to get an answer on why it is going to take them up to 16 months just to fix a dependents issue never mind the other parts of my claim. Every decision I have been given by VBA has been appealed and increased on appeal. I cannot complain about the Doctors I have seen during Comp and Pen Exams, they have done their jobs professionally and efficiently, the hang ups seem to be once you get inside the JFK Building in Boston.
[…] […]
@18.
The VHA blames the VBA and the VBA blames the VHA.
All the while unqualified personnel are practicing outside the scope of their license(s).
@21,
Yup. And the circus just keeps rolling on.
How governmental… (Civilians will love this with healthcare reform now.)
@22.
There are people in the system that genuinely care about Veterans and their health.
The problem lies in senior administration operating with impunity and absolutely no accountability.
When you raise a question, the game begins.
Then they come after you and paint you as being problematic.
Circus is right.
Calling Alex, Army of Dude to clarify…This is a clusterfuck, period. I have several American Legion peeps who can’t get help because of this. Now I know I need to have someone running point!! Mother effers.
If you can use the smaller VHCAs and you will get better treatment faster in my experientence. This unnamed VHCA can only handle 800 requests per month. They get 3000 reqests per month but only have rescoures for the 800. Some allotments need changing or requests for more money from HQ. Joe
I worked in the Vet Center from 80-92. What I saw out of the VARO’s was, especially in Winston-Salem, the fastest way to process a claim was denial. Not one of my patients in all those years got his rating on the first try. NOT ONE. I hear what rb325th is saying. Even in retirement I tell vets that the hospitals and clinics have nothing to do with the VARO’s. If your doc says…”you have PTSD”, they don’t report that to the VARO. You have to file a claim and put where you’re being treated, then the VARO must contact the clinic/hospital and request the records. I’ve heard so many vets say, “well the hospital said such and such…how come nothings happened?” My basic point is that I believe the VA denies claims to speed up the process then makes it up to the vet and the NSO’s to sort it out later.