Senators Kelly and Duckworth on the need to continue to support Ukraine

| July 24, 2023

Most interesting NPC I do not always claim that Russia is winning the war.jpg

Senator Mark Kelly, and Senator Tammy Duckworth, provided an opinion article in the New York Times detailing their argument for continued support for Ukraine. One point they made was the need for cluster munitions on the front lines. The Russians, anticipating that the Ukrainians would go on the offensive, had months to prepare their fortifications. Cluster munitions would help clear the strengthened fortifications. As commentators following the events in Ukraine have noted, a collapse of these fortifications would lead to larger Ukrainian advances into Russian-controlled territory.

From the New York Times:

War is dynamic. It requires us to look around the next corner. We heard from President Volodymyr Zelensky and met with other Ukrainian officials, and it was clear to us that Ukraine needs not just guns and ammunition but also other, newer capabilities that can decisively alter the direction of the fast-evolving conflict. In the early weeks of the war, Javelin and Stinger missiles were needed to blunt the advantage of Russian armored vehicles and aircraft. Then long-range, mobile artillery to hit Russian positions. After that, High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems to strike strategic targets farther behind Russian lines and then main battle tanks to break them.

Not every weapon system can come off a warehouse shelf and quickly be put to use on the battlefield. That is certainly the case with the F-16. We have both flown in combat. It took hundreds of flight hours to learn to fly the aircraft and more to master the range of different missions we’d be asked to carry out, whether that was dropping bombs on a target or conducting combat search and rescue. That’s why we encouraged the Pentagon in March to analyze what it would take to train Ukrainian pilots and maintainers on modern F-16 fighter jets to replace their aging fighters such as MIG-29s and understand their specific uses in the context of this war. Last week the United States reiterated its commitment to supporting its allies to train Ukrainian pilots to fly the American-made F-16 — a great step toward strengthening Ukraine’s capabilities in the long term.

In all of these cases, the United States had to assess not just whether certain weapons would be effective but also how urgent each priority was relative to others, how quickly Ukrainians could be trained to use the weapons and whether the equipment could be sustained over the course of the war. The more complex a system is, the more difficult to keep it working.

The same assessment went into the administration’s decision to provide Ukraine with cluster munitions, or rounds that disperse smaller explosives. While some oppose this decision because of the risks to civilians associated with using cluster munitions, Mr. Zelensky and his military leadership asked for these weapons because they see them as critical to their nation’s survival. Russia has used cluster munitions — with dud rates as high as 40 percent — since the early days of the war, very likely firing tens of millions of small bombs on Ukrainian soil, including in civilian areas. Unlike Russia, Ukraine has promised to deploy the weapons (U.S.-made cluster munitions have significantly lower dud rates) only in self-defense and away from civilians and to document where to facilitate cleanup after the fighting ends.

The New York Times has the rest of the opinion piece here.  The full article is available via Firefox if the link shows “subscription required.”

Also, it appears that the Ukrainians have expanded their beachhead on the eastern side of Dnieper (Dnipro) River. I remember someone telling me that the Ukrainians would never do this. However, even Russian analysts are acknowledging that the Ukrainians are getting closer to taking control of a major town on the eastern banks of the river.

Category: Russia, Ukraine

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Roh-Dog

aspartame is safe”weapons of mass destruction are in iraq”the christians in action had nothing to do with JFKnegative interest rate policy doesn’t create asset bubblesjoe bribem wonyuck reign is worthy of our investment and is holding its own ‘gainst the RF
Well…

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Last edited 1 year ago by Roh-Dog
Roh-Dog

Underlining and bullet point formatting loves to revert back.
That and having to scrub copy-n-paste back to plain jane text or risk losing words is getting annoying.

Maybe it’s just me and my antique OS?

5JC

I can’t tell the difference between that and your regular babble.

Roh-Dog

So helpful.

Don’t you ever change.

5JC

You have enlarged my mind. I should have been a pair of ragged claws scuttling across floors of silent seas…

Roh-Dog

{rubbing bald head}
Are my methods…’unsound’?

5JC

I don’t see any method at all.

Roh-Dog

maybe invest in a palantír?

discounting man’s will to destroy is a negative yielding proposition

Anonymous

More and better mine-clearing capabilities the Ukrainians could use… it’s not always the cool sexy tanks, planes, etc. that wins wars.

Hack Stone

No, the key to success in battle is Diversity Equity and Inclusion. And recognizing White Rage. And recognizing the contributions of transgender troops.

Anonymous

Butt piracy to the rescue!

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Army-Air Force Guy

Don’t forget proper pronoun usage as well. 🙄

5JC

The CO has stalled out. For the very reasons that were brought up months ago. The very things that Biden didn’t want to give them for fears of “Escalating the war”.

No long range fires to disrupt logistics.
No intercept aircraft to stop the Russians from dropping ordinance at stand off range.
No effective way to reduce obstacles.

Russian officials have stated numerous times that they ARE at war with NATO and the West. Biden’s Vietnam failure thinking has created a meat grinder stalemate.

If they are serious than they need to over ride Biden and give them what they need to finish the fight. Otherwise it is a stalemate forever war, may as well pull the rug out on them now instead of the long slow band-aid rip off like in Vietnam, Afghanistan and several other places.

Roh-Dog

With that last paragraph it looks like you’ve finally arrived.

Congrats for being 500+ days late to the party!

Now, define ‘finish the fight’ because I have yet to hear a rational expectation on what that looks like from the UKR perspective.

5JC

Didn’t really need to arrive, I’ve been there all along.

Now, define ‘finish the fight’ because I have yet to hear a rational expectation on what that looks like from the UKR perspective.

Really? Not really following the war are you?

Bottom Line: Russia Leaves.

This is interview is pretty simple and to the point. There are hundreds of others out there for those who are media challenged that say the same thing.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/03/09/ukraine-endgame-volodymyr-zelensky-wolf-blitzer-primetime-sot-intl-hnk-vpx.cnn

But details have been out there for almost a year.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/what-is-zelenskiys-10-point-peace-plan-2022-12-28/

Seems perfectly rational to me. But I am just a little man.

timactual

Well, that’s nice. Has Zelensky forwarded his wish list to Santa Claus?

Now, how about the Russians? They have a little something to say about any peace settlement, and I doubt it would include leaving Crimea, Luhansk, or Donetsk. Any of Russia’s details available? It might be relevant. I admit I have not been following this war very closely.

5JC

The Russians? That is pretty simple. Putin would like the entire world to lay down arms and become a part of the greater Russia or (if suitable) or a member of Putin’s harem. Everyone will be guaranteed full independence and 15 kilos of potatoes a month.

timactual

“Putin would like the entire world to lay down arms and become a part of the greater Russia”

You really should think about getting professional help with those paranoid fantasies.

QMC

Two crooked governments duking it out with each other.

Yes, Russia invaded and is the aggressor, but let’s not pretend that the Zelensky regime is white as the driven snow (shutting down churches, cancelling elections, etc).

I don’t know what else this guy has on the Biden crime family, but it must be good to keep the gravy train coming in.

I would rather go on a date with Lizzo to an all you can eat buffet, than see one more cent spent to drag us closer to World War III over this.

5JC

It’s hard to say they are crooked for not having an election when they are following the constitution which states that no election will be held while the country is under martial law, which they are under because you know, invasion.

It’s also hard to say what he has on Biden. Zelinsky wasn’t elected until years after the Bidens quit taking bribes from Burisma. That is why Trump asked him for assistance in finding out. He figured he was clean and might help out. Then of course Vindman picked the wrong side.

With sleepy at the switch and the hooker in the bullpen everyone is looking to take an advantage while there is a good chance they will be too dumb to do anything about it. We are getting drug closer to war whether we want it or not.

Russia attacked Ukraine. Iran is seizing oil tankers. China is fucking with Taiwan. Norks are Norking. This is happening because we appear weak. Certainly no one was messing with us when Trump was in charge.

Last edited 1 year ago by 5JC
timactual

Oh, okay, as long as they are under martial law it’s okay. I am curious, though, why Zelensky needs martial law in areas controlled by Ukraine.

5JC

Zelensky didn’t establish it, the parliament did.

timactual

And I still hear the echoes of Zelensky’s howled objections. Before they forced him to be in charge.

rgr769

He has also shut down media which doesn’t fully support him.

5JC

Don’t be modest. He turned all of Uke network TV and radio into a “Democratic Party cheerleader alike CNN” for him and the war effort. He seems to have forgotten what happened to Churchill.

Anonymous

And cracks down on folk enriching themselves at state expense:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/zelenskyy-resorts-enrichment-officials-mps-194151108.html

timactual

“I would rather go on a date with Lizzo to an all you can eat buffet”

As long as there are separate checks, I might go. I would also prefer separate tables, though.

jeff LPH 3 63-66

Does anyone know what munition companies Kelly and Duckworth have stocks in. I would like to make some moola shmoola $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ from them.

5JC

Duckworth holds stock in Verizon, Disney and Illinois Tool Works.

Mark Kelly has all of his holdings in a blind trust and presented a bill in senate to ban stock trading by members of congress and their families.

Blaster

I wonder which companies they own stock in that will see Ukraine buying stuff from with all of those taxpayer dollars !?!?

Crooks!!

Skippy

In other news the Biden campaign is out with a new campaign sign

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Anonymous

Hunter approves:
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Odie

Stol..er, reappropriated.

Forest Bondurant

As I recall, when Jen Psaki was the WH liar back a couple of years ago or so, she said the WH viewed Russia’s use of cluster munitions as a war crime.

Obviously it’s not when Biden sends them.

Skippy

It’s alway ok when a democrat does it
Not a republican

5JC

Don’t be silly. They are very, very consistent. Why just a couple of years ago gun control fanatic Ted Lieu proposed cutting off cluster bombs to the Saud and then no longer sending them anywhere. Amy Kloboucher sponsored legislation to ban them in the US.

https://lieu.house.gov/media-center/in-the-news/human-rights-groups-say-saudi-arabia-misused-us-made-cluster-bombs

They would never, ever, ever walk that back……

🤗

https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/press-release/mccaul-kean-wilson-keating-lieu-golden-introduce-bipartisan-resolution-urging-immediate-transfer-of-atacms-to-ukraine/

🚀

ah fuq it….

A Proud Infidel®™

How much in kickbacks are these politicians receiving?

Sapper3307

“If we got checks, we got money!”
Duckworth

Anonymous

On Gateway Pundit: It’s not the Chicoms (yet) but the Ukrainians who are exercising “leverage” to get what they want:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/07/breaking-update-zelensky-associate-was-present-biden-bribery/

Last edited 1 year ago by Anonymous
Odie

Not the gateway pundit. Somebody will be by shortly to say they are the equivalent of a grocery store rag posted in the checkout line.

MarineDad61

Odie,
It is what it is.
What next?
Gospel truth according to National File?
lolol

timactual

“Cluster munitions would help clear the strengthened fortifications.”

Not really. They may be marginally more effective against troops in trenches without overhead cover than air-burst proximity fuzed conventional ammunition, or troops & vehicles in the open, but that’s about it. They are designed more for area targets.

Anonymous

DPICM is easier to disable a unit of tanks (plus kill the accompanying troops, but who’s counting?) in a single volley with than to take awhile to get hard kills on all those tanks with multiple volleys of larger unitary rounds.

Last edited 1 year ago by Anonymous
timactual

I think that would come under the heading of “troops & vehicles in the open…They are designed more for area targets.”.

Old tanker

There has been so much propaganda from both sides, as well as the US media, that I no longer have any confidence in any reporting as to the status of the conflict.

Anonymous

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fm2176

This…we’re fed propaganda and only the highest levels of government and military officials know what’s really happening. We, the taxpaying public, need only cough up more money to defeat Bad Russia and help Good Ukraine. Unless we get our news from other sources, in which case we’re helping Not-So-Good Ukraine defeat Bad Russia. I don’t really see much support for Russia’s actions anywhere, but any talk against Ukraine makes us Russian apologists.

The “media” in this country swings widely Left and will spout whatever talking line Biden and his ilk spew out. You can tell how annoyed KJP gets whenever she’s challenged during a press conference, and her predecessor, Psaki, wasn’t much better. Then again, you can look at both sides of the spectrum to see where a WH Press Secretary goes once their time is done. They go into politics themselves, a la Huckabee Sanders or move on to their respective MSM “media” outlets, like Perino and McEnany with Fox or Psaki with CNN and MSNBC. Some, like Sean Spicer, go on to less-mainstream channels like Newsmax.

The talking heads who officially represent our government, whether elected or selected (politician or spokesperson), as well as those who make TV appearances to give “news” and opinions, are little more than propagandists and hardly better than Baghdad Bob above.

Last edited 1 year ago by fm2176
KoB

Too bad these Kongress Klowne Kritters don’t have the same commitment to defending OUR borders as they do participating in a war between a coupla despots. I’m more concerned about the barbarians that are already thru OUR gates than the barbarians that are at/thru some one else’s gates. We’ve already nearly depleted our supply of 155 mm shells, what is the next resource that we will be asked to deplete? The blood of our young men and women?

The MIC grins.

Odie

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A tutorial for those not familiar with the size of different rounds of ammo.

MustangCPT

I wouldn’t kick either of them out of bed for eating crackers…

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