The military is top heavy with too many generals and admirals
Senator Tommy Tuberville, a Republican representing Alabama, has placed a hold on general and admiral promotions. One of his arguments was that the military had too many generals and admirals relative to the enlisted troops under them compared to what the ratio was during World War II. His other argument, perhaps his main one, involves a policy supported by the Secretary of Defense that allows servicemembers to travel to where they could get abortions.
From military.com:
“Experts have known for more than a decade that the military is top heavy. We do not suffer from a lack of generals,” Tuberville said. “When my dad served in World War II, we had one general for every 6,000 troops. Think about that: one for every 6,000. Now, we have one general for every 1,400 enlisted service members.”
Since late February, Tuberville has maintained a hold on all nominees for promotion to one-star general and admiral and above over his opposition to the Pentagon’s decision to cover travel and leave for service members seeking abortions and other reproductive health care.
While a single senator cannot prevent confirmations, a hold significantly delays confirmations because the Senate needs to find floor time to hold lengthy roll call votes rather than quickly approving them in batches in voice votes, as is typical for military nominations.
As of now, Tuberville’s hold affects 184 military nominees, though that number is expected to grow as President Joe Biden names more nominees and the Senate Armed Services Committee processes them for floor action, including the recently announced nominee to be the next Army chief of staff.
As Tuberville persists in his hold, Democrats have stepped up pressure on him to relent.
In the latest move in Democrats’ pressure campaign, Warren took to the Senate floor Tuesday to make a series of unanimous consent requests to confirm the blocked nominees.
“These holds deprive military families of pay increases they have earned because a nominee’s new pay may not take effect until the promotion goes through,” Warren said. “Without formally being assigned a change of duty, families can’t make decisions about moving or enrolling kids at a new school … for the fall.”
Military.com and USA Today provide additional details to the story.
Category: Military issues
Recalling the late ’90s there were more general officers in Germany with US forces Then there were infantry and armor companies. I don’t know if that was ever fixed.
Thats when AAFES got a FLAG officer in charge.
It might actually be worse nowadays. There are 10 Divisions and at each division there are 24 maneuver companies. The Army is kept at 241 generals. So with a few outliers here and there it’s a one-to-one parity Army wide.
Depending on how you define maneuver, there are just more, or many more, than 24 maneuver companies in a DIV. An ABCT has 3 recon troops and 10 tank and mech companies. Three ABCTs to a DIV puts it at 39. If you stretch it (I personally don’t) and add the two ENG Co and three FA batteries per ABCT, that’s 54. The HHCs would be too much of a stretch but the combined arms BNs’ HHCs at least have the scout and mortar platoons and are commanded by a line guy. That puts it up to a high end of 57 but, again, I would really say the 39 line troops or companies. Your IBCT will have 12 rifle companies (inc weapons COs) and three recon troops per BCT. That’s a minimum of 45 maneuver companies per light division and more if you loosely consider ENG, FA, or HHC. OCONUS BCTs have one less line BN which will drive down that count.
An ABCT can take and hold ground so they would count, they normally wouldn’t because that isn’t their normal mission, however they have that capability. Artillery and Engineers don’t. They could possibly hold ground but seizing is an important discriminator.
The maneuver commander always treated my SAPPERs as a combat force, “go recon and secure that hill with no support!” good times.
Well, if there isn’t an obstacle to reduce or breach…
Or something to pilfer.
Damned Engineers!
1st AAFES Command?
I remember several decades ago when they did this and got rid of a bunch of flag rank dead weight. You can pay a whole bunch of E-1’s for what a gen gen makes. Probably get a lot more work out of them too.
““These holds deprive military families of pay increases they have earned…”
Really? As if a general/flag officer needs a pay increase to make ends meet in daily life.
My contempt knows no bounds for these entitled people.
The poor darlings. What will they do, where will they go. To hell for all I care.
It was not too long ago military enlisted were told to apply for food stamps to beat inflation?
https://www.dailywire.com/news/pentagon-tells-struggling-army-soldiers-families-to-apply-for-food-stamps
https://www.foxnews.com/us/army-suggests-food-stamps-soldiers-battling-inflation
Fuck Faux-cahontas!!!
She doesn’t care one iota about the military or its families…
She’s a member of the abortion cult…
Its not a last resort to a desperate situation…
No, abortions are lifestyle choices and a suitable back-up for increasing numbers of young women that are run though hard and put away wet an early age…
The hook-up culture is what is trying to “protect”
<deep breath>
Off my soap box
Full bird colonels, what will they ever do?
*rummages for the nanometer violin*
Here — found one for you:
“General Randy George Picked as Army’s Next Chief Amid Senate Holdup”
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/04/24/gen-randy-george-picked-armys-next-chief-amid-senate-holdup.html
“The Army may have a new chief of staff by the end of the summer after President Joe Biden tapped a nominee to replace Gen. James McConville — but his pick also faces a potential holdup in the Senate.”
“General Randy George, the current Army vice chief of staff, was officially nominated last week by Biden to oversee the service and sit on the Joint Chiefs of Staff.”
“The nomination is now in the hands of the Senate, where a Republican lawmaker is delaying the confirmation of such military appointments under chamber rules due to objections over the Pentagon providing troops leave for abortions.”
“Senator Tommy Tuberville, R-Ala., who is a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said last month he will hold up Pentagon nominations unless Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin rescinds the policy.”
“Biden Taps Army Vice Chief To Be Service’s Top Officer”
https://www.defensenews.com/land/2023/04/24/biden-taps-army-vice-chief-to-be-services-top-officer/
“George is prior enlisted and entered the Army as a private before attending West Point in 1984.”
“The Four-Star General began his career as an infantry officer, graduating from the U.S. Military Academy at West Point in 1988. He served in Desert Storm as a lieutenant in the 101st Airborne Division.”
“George deployed in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom as deputy commander of the 173rd Airborne Brigade based in Italy, and deployed again to Iraq as the commander of the 1st Battalion, 187th Infantry Regiment.”
“George deployed to Afghanistan in 2008 in support of Operation Enduring Freedom as the commander of the 4th Infantry Division’s 4th Brigade Combat Team.”
“After stints as an executive officer for both the 33rd Army vice chief and the U.S. Central Command commander, he took command of the 4th Infantry Division in charge of maneuver.”
“Prior to his appointment as the vice chief in 2022, George commanded I Corps at Fort Lewis, Washington and then served as the senior military assistant to the secretary of defense.”
“George has earned a Purple Heart, the
Defense Distinguished Service Medal, a Bronze Star with three oak leaf clusters, a Ranger tab, a combat infantryman badge, and a senior parachutist badge with a bronze star — meaning George conducted a combat jump in his tenure — among a bevy of other awards.”
Yep, it’s that time for the big shuffle at the Pentagon E-ring. The Chairman of Joint Chiefs, the Chief of Naval Operations, and the Commandant of the Marine Corps are also expected to retire in the coming months.
Those Raytheon, General Dynamics, and Northrup Grumman slots ain’t gonna fill themselves.
CIB second award!!!
Just yesterday somebody was asking about combat jump wings. General George jumped into Northern Iraq with the 173rd during operation Iraqi freedom. He became one of the few other than Panama veterans.
Thank You for sharing, 5JC!
General George is a Mustang.
We hope he does well with his new position!
Lead from the front.
ATW!
Grandpa
My suggestion?
Fire 75% of the Pentagon military and 95% of the Pentagon civilian staff.
They do our military more harm than good, it seems.
Not that anyone cares about that suggestion, but…
I like my idea of getting rid of the standing army all together and replacing it with a massive reserve/Guard similar to Switzerland. This would pry the power of the military out of the hands of the executive and back into the people.
“Fire 95% of the Pentagon civilian staff.”
Graybeard:
True story.
A long, long time ago, when smoking was still the norm in Military buildings and computers did not exist, I did an Army tour at the Pentagon.
Was given a desk sitting next to a Female GS.
Day In and Day Out, all that Female GS did was chain smoke cigarettes and talk on the phone. I NEVER saw her do ANY work.
After getting fed up coming home smelling like cigarette smoke and seething because I witnessed someone taking up space and not working, I finally requested my Chain of Command move me to another Office.
I also asked why that Female GS was there…and NOT working.
Turned out she was protected by some Labor Union. Yep. Somehow, DoD or the Army HAD to keep her in the office so she could contunue drawing her GS Salary.
Also turned out she was a deadbeat who was lazy and took advantage of the OPM system and labor unions. A Cockroach.
When I PCSed, she was still there, smoking away. Always wonder what happened when the Army/DoD implemented the new ROE, “No Smoking Policy”.
Smoking is only permitted outdoors. There’s a designated smoke area in the center courtyard. It looks like a bus stop for some reason.
Vaping isn’t allowed indoors either.
And no, I don’t smoke.
Thank You, Forest.
Yes, we know. The No Smoking policy went into effect in the 1980s.
That was my FIRST tour at the Pentagon. I did a SECOND tour leading up to 9-11. I just PCSed to another unit when the Pentagon was hit. Trying to remember if there was a designated smoking area at Ground Zero (the center courtyard).
Lost a Bible Study friend. Still hurts 20 years later. LTC Dave Scales.
Rest In Peace, Dave.
Ninja, you hit the nail on the head with “the OPM system and labor unions.” I once worked for an Army O-6 who wanted to shed a deadweight GS-9 before his automatic promotion to GS-11. Our way forward was to mobilize the employee for an overseas assignment when both OIF and OEF were ongoing. The employee refused his orders and separated from the civil service. It was an extreme measure, but it ultimately accomplished our goal. It just took a whole lot of time and effort to get rid of the shitbag.
Maine Highlander:
Thank You for sharing!
Another Cockroach!
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👌👌👌👌👌👍👍👍
The former MRS D (a GS-12) had an employee that was nothing but trouble, a complete oxygen thief and all-around waste of skin. Played either the race card or disability card any time an attempt was made to discipline her. She finally overstepped, swung her cane at a co-worker. Separation packet was complete, firing was scheduled for first thing Monday morning, management was ready to celebrate. Monday comes. No show. Tuesday rolls around. Still not at work. Wednesday morning, news arrives that she’d had a heart attack sometime over the weekend and wasn’t discovered until Tuesday evening. Some folks will do anything to avoid firing.
A sad and tragic story, but I did laugh out loud nonetheless.
If every cloud has a silver lining, then every silver lining has a cloud.
No, it wasn’t really.
It’s not sad or tragic, every dead shitbag make the air a little cleaner and the sun a little brighter…old age isn’t for everyone.
I will paraphrase Clarence Darrow; “I’ve never wished anyone (a man-is the original quote) dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure.”
Sounds like the AFGE, the Fed Gov’t Employees Union was at bat for her.
I like it. We fought and won WWII with many more troops and far fewer pentagon dwellers.
Not enough Spec 4’s
😉😎
Can any Flag Officer that cannot bench 225.
Hit the showers the proceed to CIF, Pops…..
We could balance the goddamn federal budget.
While I totally agree the army is seriously too heavy in GOs, the comparison to WWII is useless in and of itself. We have a vastly different force structure, and a whole lot of G-staff billets for GOs in staff billets that didn’t even exist back then. Could we replace GOs with COLs? Sure, and I’m all for it in some specific cases. But Show me the force design updates that implement it, and get them approved. In a side note, a COL has to get out at 30 and a GO gets a few more years use, so we are actually getting some bang for buck in longevity and experience by keeping some around. Again, not opposed to reducing, for good reasons, not just “because WWII!” If WWII is good, I guess the Continental Army would be even better!
Here’s one that will either not make GO…or will be classified “promote ahead of peers.” You decide.
Oh, and I agree with 26Limabeans. Build up the E4 Mafia!
https://www.foxnews.com/us/female-army-commander-faces-wild-claims-she-forcefully-kissed-groped-male-troops
The first rule of the E4 Mafia…if they existed… We don’t talk about the E4 Mafia. A smart NCO can use this theoretical organization to his advantage and accomplish miracles while keeping their hands and conscience clean. Or… they can destroy you, leaving you twisting slowly in the wind, choking on your own arrogance and pettiness. Choose your path wisely.
Ahhhhh, she’s one of the guys
KoB:
Am having some REAL doubts about that story.
So far, I simply don’t believe it.
Having been a victim of false accusations, ninja, I NEVER believe a he said/she said/they said story until ALL of the facts come out. I just happened to run into this while on my search for FGS. A slight stretch but thought it might tie into this thread a bit, Officers being promoted and what not. We have seen too many times where just the accusation of improper behavior can derail a good officer’s career. We have seen too many cases where the accusations were true. I will be interested in seeing how this plays out. And yes, I had a personal experience where a female came onto a young, single, me. I didn’t consider it harassment, I considered it getting lucky. That is until she used her position of authority to cause problems. Management took her side so I left that Company. Got some measure of satisfaction when she got busted a little later on some other nefarious activities. Lessons learned, was cougars are dangerous and don’t dip your pen into the Company Ink well. Some women are very devious, not saying this Colonel is. I wish her luck, no matter how it turns out.
gabn/gabaf/rtr/hbtd
As Always, KoB..
You NAILED IT!!
👏👏👏👏👏
BTW, we signed out at 1700 hours with the CQ since we were on the Duty Roster today (please see the thread about the NY/Canadian Stolen Valor Dude).
Time to head to the Mess Hall for good hot chow!
gabn/gabaf/hbtd/rtr
Saw that. I was so very proud. Is it bad that we gang up on our Beloveds ‘Ed and Mick? Naw, they wouldn’t expect any different from us.
Firebase Magnolia’s Dining Facility will be serving up, Southern Fried Chicken, tater salad, candied yams, green beans, butter beans, johnny cake, mac n cheese, vanilla ice cream over butter pound cake, and naturally, the House Wine…Sweet Iced Tea.
Went and paid respects to some of them Boys That Wore The Gray today in Memory of Georgia’s Observed Date for Confederate Memorial Day. Still a State Worker’s Holiday tho they don’t call it that any more. “‘lest we forget…”
gabn/gabaf/rtr/hbtd
“Army To Discharge Sergeant Convicted Of Murdering Air Force Veteran”
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2023/04/26/army-to-discharge-sergeant-convicted-of-murdering-air-force-veteran/
“The Army has moved to discharge a sergeant that was convicted of murder on April 7 for killing an Air Force Veteran during a Black Lives Matter protest in 2020.”
“A jury in Texas found Sgt Daniel Perry, 36, guilty of murdering 28-year-old Air Force veteran Garrett Foster, on July 25, 2020. Foster was carrying an assault rifle in downtown Austin, Texas during a protest for racial justice, when Perry turned his car into a group of protesters while working as a rideshare driver. During the trial, Perry said he shot Foster with his handgun when the veteran raised his rifle toward Perry’s car.”
“The 11th Airborne Division declined to provide a comment on the move to discharge Perry..”
“Army Moves To Discharge Sergeant Convicted Of Murder In Death Of Air Force Vet In Texas”
https://www.stripes.com/branches/army/2023-04-25/texas-murder-army-soldier-discharge-9916544.html
“The Army has begun the process to discharge Sgt. Daniel Perry after a jury found him guilty of murder more than two weeks ago though the soldier’s defense attorney questioned whether the service is doing so too quickly.”
“The unit is initiating a separation,” said John Pennell, spokesman for the 11th Airborne Division, Perry’s unit at Fort Wainwright, Alaska.”
“But Perry’s attorney Doug O’Connell said until the conviction is official, which won’t happen until after the soldier is sentenced, there is no court record to use as grounds for discharging him.”
“And given the credible evidence of jury misconduct, it’s very possible that Sgt. Perry will be granted a new trial,” said O’Connell, who is a retired Army Special Forces colonel.”
“O’Connell said the Army should slow down on discharging Perry because his sentencing has not been scheduled. More so, the attorney filed a court motion that alleged jury misconduct and requested a new trial, claiming there was outside influence on the jurors because one of them said another brought in printed copies of online research that was done outside of the trial.”
Someone in the Army is too “woke” and wants to get this guy out before he can be found “not guilty” and promote.
Blue Falcons abound.
The Air Force vet was discharged after 12 days if I remember correctly, so he could take care of his girlfriend (the night crawler) he was pushing around the riot in a wheelchair.
“These holds deprive military families of pay increases…”
Waaaaaa waaaaaa waaaaaa
An 0-6 with 26+ years makes over $13,000/mo base. This figure does not include BAS, BAQ or VHA or any extra duty pay.
$13,000+ per month. Basic pay. And general officers make way more.
Cry me a goddamn river.
Too many chiefs, not enough Indians.
You definitely aren’t alone.
“…too many Generals and Admirals” IMHO is like saying that water is wet, fire is hot and shit stinks!
So a General in every pot?
Poor nominees and their deprivation of pay increases…
Have Warren and her ilk not heard of how enlisted promotions (or lack thereof) work? Let’s see, in the Army we often have E4s or even E3s serving as Team Leaders, E5 Squad Leaders, and E6 Platoon Sergeants. Unlike most General Officers, these men and women usually have young families and live paycheck to paycheck. Rather than the next social at the golf course, their worried more about how they’re going to make their car payment and still put food on the table. If they live off-post they make much less in BAH, because that allowance is skewed towards senior enlisted and officers who, again, often have older families and even adult kids.
Moving on up into the senior enlisted positions: E7s are often frocked to 1SG, getting all of the headaches and few of the rewards, especially that E8 pay. Make the list, wait it out for a while, and after the Master Leader Course you might finally officially get that third rocker. From my understanding, E8 to E9 is even worse for many. My last assignment saw an E8 PCS to the Sergeant Major Academy. He had something like 48 months 1SG time as an E7, would be serving as a SGM or CSM upon graduation, and would probably get promoted about two years after making the list. Definitely not the most rapid of upward pay increases.
Contrast that to my CG in my penultimate assignment. He took the position as a BG with under 3 years in grade, made MG almost immediately, and two years later was a LTG. Great guy I’d serve with again in a heartbeat, but very different from the way enlisted and even junior or field grade officers get promoted.
Some of that is probably related to the statutory limits on the numbers of E8 and E9. There are similar statutory limits on GOs, but there are also a ton of special appointments and positions that come with stars.
So we can’t understand why we struggle to retain the E6-E7 ranks whose families live in moldy, shit stained ceiling, base housing.
But a bunch of rich legislators are worried that a bunch of affluent O6 and O7s making a paltry 10-13k a month might struggle to find housing and comfortable decisions about which school their precious little darlings might attend in the coming fall?
The notion that the reality of that first paragraph escapes most of the people involved in being concerned about the second paragraph stands as a testament to all that is wrong with our military and our nation these days.