Argentine Navy submarine may have ‘imploded’
The missing Argentinian submarine has been discovered 2,600 feet deep in the Atlantic Ocean.
photos show wreckage on sea floor
By Travis Fedschun | Fox News
The Argentine submarine that was lost deep in the sea with 44 crew members on board may have suffered from a partial implosion close to the seabed, a senior official said Sunday as officials released photos of the wreckage.
The country’s navy announced Saturday that the ARA San Juan was discovered at a depth of 2,975 feet in the waters off the Valdes Peninsula and was surrounded by a field of rubble, with underwater turbulence making visibility difficult.
Naval Capt. Enrique Balbi said the working theory was that the vessel had partially imploded while at sea, deep down near the seabed, Sky News reported.
Photos released on Sunday showed the wreckage of the submarine in the Atlantic Ocean, with sections of the vessel lying on the ocean floor. Parts of its propellers were buried and debris was scattered up to 230 feet away.
The pieces of the submarine, which included a propeller and the sub’s bow with torpedo launching tubes, had been “crushed inwards,” according to Balbi.
Fair winds and following seas.
The rest of the article may be found at Fox News
Category: Navy
Rest in Peace, Sailors. Fair winds and following seas.
If it’s been down at that depth for a year, I don’t think there would be much left of the remains of the crew. The Sea is a very harsh mistress.
The families have my sympathies in this.
Fair winds and following seas.
Believe it depends on microbial life, Ex. The deeper you go, the fewer microbes there are to dispose of bodies, while pressure, absence of air, and absence of sunlight also apparently inhibit decomposition. K-129’s crew supposedly showed barely any decomposition when the wreck was surveyed by USS Halibut’s ROV in 1969, despite having been down there most of a year. The bodies recovered by the Hughes Glomar Explorer during Project Azorean are said to have been identifiable from their ID pictures five years later. Of course, K-129 was waaay deeper than ARA San Juan.
I was expecting the Dharma Initiative to be involved.
This is all you could come up with as a comment?
Gallows humor keeps some of us going.
Its a combat arms thing.
Amen.
Gallows humor is appropriate among friends to blunt the realities of losing people held close. I may have some experience in that even though I’m not ‘combat arms.’
So thanks for your input, but in the future keep the gallows humor where it belongs, and where it is appreciated. Drowned Argentine Sailors isn’t it.
Rest in peace Sailors. God comfort your families.
Peace be unto the families of these sailors. At least now they know. Explosion from internal source or explosion from going below crush depth? Bubble heads get much respect from this landlubber. SnL was a tea kettle operator on boomers, he transferred from the fast attacks.
Click the link. Sea water and battery acid are a deadly combination.
USS Bonefish suffered a similar causality during an exercise off the Florida coast in the mid-80’s. Fortunately they were able to surface the boat and evacuate most of the crew, but they still lost people.
To my knowledge, the US Navy hasn’t operated a Diesel/Electric boat since. Bubbleheads, keep me honest here.
Yeah I did click, all of them, I usually dig thru all the linkies, always digging for the rest of the story. Even clicked the links within the links. Guess my question(s) were more on, (a) they seemed to have a handle on it (b) something else went tits up (c) took on water and went below crush depth (d) implode would break up the ship like an explode? Either way, not a good day for those boys at all. Hope Mark Laur is right. “They didn’t feel a thing.” Gonna see SnL this week up coming. I’ll get him away from daughter and get his take. Again much as I like for Go Army Beat Navy, I have much respect for bubbleheads. I mean the whole idea of Navy vessels is to keep the sea on the outside. In order to dive, you gotta take on water, right? From what I understand, the sea will try very hard to kill you. Much respect also for them fellers that take off and land on a postage stamp in the middle of BFE Ocean. Even more for them SAR guys that may have to go out in all kinds of blowing rolling ocean to pluck them out of Neptune’s Domain.
Another question is why any one would want that type of sub now a days? How long would it last in any war with the ASW capabilities that we, the Brits, Ruskies, et all have. Even being quiet like the electrics are, 1st torp out the tube and the ASW troops be all a swarmey on their ass. Whose Navy they gonna fight? Brazil? Venezuela? Chile?
I believe most countries use diesel subs because they are cheaper to build and the training and operation is easier. I hear the US Navy’s Nuclear Academy is one of the hardest schools to get into.
Diesel/electrics are very quiet boats, and are especially useful in coastal waters. In fact a modern diesel/electric is quieter than a nuke boat, which has to keep the reactor coolant running at all times. If memory serves some Aussie d/e boats gave us fits in some war games a while back.
That’s not to mention our anti-sub capabilities have become damn near non-existent since the end of the Cold War. Once the Soviet Navy disappeared, our sub-hunting resources did the same. Our mine-sweeping capabilities are nearly as bad. Problem is this kind of stuff isn’t nearly as sexy as a new stealth bomber next-gen carrier, so it doesn’t get the votes in Congress.
Dolphin was around for a while after that.
But nukes have batteries too. Big fucking ones. Just ask anyone who was on the Guitarro.
Word. Scariest thing I remember hearing is “Seawater in the battery well”. Well that and when our main hydraulic pump took a dump while doing angles and dangles.
The Bonefish fire was in September 1988.
USS Darter was the last diesel ‘attack’ sub, and was decommed 12 December 1989.
Dolphin was an AGSS (diesel auxiliary [or experimental]) sub and was decommed 15 January 2007 following a flooding and fire incident in May of 2002.
Of additional note, the ROCS Hai Shih (SS-791) [the ex-USS Cutlass (SS-478)] was first commissioned 17 March 1945 and is the oldest submarine still in active service.
Knew I could count on you guys to back me up. Thanks.
Attn AW1ED
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/texas/2018/11/17/vintage-world-war-ii-plane-crashes-parking-lot-fredericksburg
Tragic. I was admiring that particular aircraft several months ago at Dallas Musem of Flight. She was a beauty.
That’s tragic. However I find some comfort in two B-17 drivers going out together with their boots on in one of the fighters that helped protect them.
Thanks GDC. I’ll do some research and post up in its own thread tomorrow.
Fair winds and following seas, Airmen.
Well, just damn. Peace be unto the families. Survived the “Hun” and everything since. Lot to be said for dying doing what you loved to do.
Damn. This the first I’ve heard of it.
The Collings Foundation has a dual controls
Mustang that can be “Guest” flown.
Not many WWII pilots left.
https://www.collingsfoundation.org/aircrafts/north-american-tp-51c-mustang/
“Implode”
Not the word you ever want to hear when talking about a submarine. The only good thing you can say about that is, they didn’t feel a thing.
God rest them.
Generally speaking, how deep do subs operate?
My bubblehead nephew ain’t telling. But I know it is deeper than I like to be.
Is 500 feet plausible?
The answer varies by Hull and class. The test and crush depths are secret.
>800 feet, >25 kts.
How much more, I forget. And I got the signed Page 13 to prove it.
Unless its the old Alfa SSN.
It also depends on what the sub is doing. Transiting, on-station, hunting another sub, evading detection?
An exercise with a Japanese diesel boat, we flew for three days and never caught a wiff of him. Why? He picked a corner of the OPAREA and bottomed there. Sneaky bastard.
According to Wikipedia, the max depth for the Virginia-class submarine is over 800+ feet. But I think your guess of 500 feet is a good estimate for the average depth where they would usually operate (most likely) when not being pursued or depending on the mission being performed.
Very plausible.
I honestly believe that these and any other WWII planes be grounded, permanently.
They should all be listed as designated Historical Artifacts and given places of honor to be displayed that is out of the weather and given the funding to keep them in near perfect condition or at least the condition they are in at the point of designation.
They are truly places of Honor and deserve to be treated as such.
There is no point in flying them anymore except to just do it so you can say that it was done.
They are obviously over 70 years old and no doubt there are things that are not going to work as they should…
Do B-17’s have Prostate glands ????
I just think the ones that survive today have worked long enough and hard enough and they are so valuable as to be absolutely priceless…
They have done it for numerous ships now, it’s time to retire these birds…
I put it up in the wrong place, but I think you get my intentions.
I mean no harm to anyone with these or any of my words, except larsy-boi and hope that no offense is taken.
Unless you are larsy-boi, then I hope the fleas of a thousand camels infest your top dresser drawer…
Well, you certainly have me riled up.
https://www.collingsfoundation.org/aircrafts/boeing-b-17g-flying-fortress/
I have flown on the “Nine 0 Nine” many times. Mostly ferry flights to the next show. The crew is always superb and the aircraft is a pleasure to ride in.
There is an FAA chase plane (Mooney) that follows it around making sure they do nothing to warrant citation. I have high resolution photos of the FAA plane following us at eight 0 clock 1/4 mile.
Photos of the Liberator alongside.
I even flew on that bird with my dad, a B-17 Gunner/Togglier. We crawled through it nose to tail in flight.
The only safety item I would impose is
the wearing of ear protection.
Steady 26Lb, steady. Many thanks for these linkies. Both of them. Much respect for these planes, the folks that built them originally, the men that flew and maintained them, and the people who restored, fly, and maintain them now.
I have to side with you on this one. There are a number of these vintage aircraft on static display around the country. Having one that will actually get into the air, and show people what the Americans could and did do for freedom is priceless. We built, what, some 12K + of these and how many are flyable? Having one ready to take off and not flying it would be like being married to a world class super model and not sleeping with her. Never had the chance to go up in one, but would love to.
Thunderstixx, no self respecting flea would come within 100 miles of Larsy-boi’s chest of drawers. Even fleas have some self respect and pride.
Hat tip to the other postings on the sub questions.
The Navy Test Pilot School is here at Pax River where I work, and every couple of years they’ll lease the B-25 Mitchell “Panchito” for the students to “test.” One of my pals on active duty even got to fly in it as an observer. Now that’s a log book entry to be proud of!
It’s good to gain perspective by controlling something that is not fly-by-wire.
It did implode. Whether that was before or after the crew was dead is probably moot. Probability is they had a second issue with the other battery pack, which released chlorine gas. I’ve talked to folks that I trust, who analyzed the audio tapes and heard it go.
God bless the sailors in the arms of Davy Jones locker, and their families.
Hopefully this brings some sort of closure to the families of the crew.
Rest in peace, shipmates.
I’ve been thinking about the gallows humor comment and the response to it. I suppose that there is a difference in how sailors and soldiers view certain things, such as the loss of their counterparts, even in time of war. Sailors have a common enemy and friend in the sea and naval history is rife with sailors of different nations helping one another when the sea turns on them. Maybe I’m off base. I don’t know. I’ll leave it to the sailors to explain it, if they wish.
I think we as submariners know the risk, and accept it. We are confident, sometimes cocky, but we know the cost of even a single failure is unacceptably high, yet we’re still willing to take said risk.
That or we’re just some crazy fuckers. Maybe that’s it.
I thought the comment was juvenile and not appropriate for the post. Sailors use gallows humor as well, pretty often really, but among “the family.” Put the shoe on the other foot, Cav. I doubt you would take it kindly if a sailor made such statements about an Army tragedy.
Excuse an ignorant Marine, but what exactly did 2/17 say that was so fucked up and inexcusable?
The comment in question was from Sapper3307 near the top of the comments, not 2/17 Air Cav.
We never practiced ‘gallows humor’ about those who were killed. Our gallows humor was always directed at our living friends.. “You’re not going to make it, so name me the beneficiary of your SGLI policy… and tell me what you want me to whisper in your girlfriend’s ear” sort of stuff.
Somehow, this has changed to gallows humor about our own people. I can tell you w/o knowing him personally, that Sapper never would have written that about our own. I have no doubt. Is it different if it’s the Argentinian Navy? To me, yes. To him, yes. To others, not.
I can’t say what he was thinking, because I didn’t digest his comment that way. The comment went over my head.
My comment is about gallows humor in general. It’s a minefield. If used, it’s best kept tight, and among friends. We used gallows humor about imaginary victims all the time, but left the real dead in peace.