“I thought you were bigger”

| July 31, 2018

A story by  Brendan O’Byrne first published in The War Horse

This article is well written, I hope you find it worth a read.

A small line of people formed in front of the stage. Some of them offered a handshake or a thank you, a few wanted to tell me a story about their own experience, and others asked a question or two.

Light blue specks of splattered paint polka-dotted her faded jeans. She wore a light-colored fleece and thick-framed reading glasses. She had aged kindly. The corners of her eyes and mouth wrinkled to show years of smiles and laughter. It seemed like some of those small lines were damp. Gray streaks highlighted her black hair.

She carried a copy of “War,” by Sebastian Junger, with my face on the cover staring out at nothing. She’d tucked the book under her arm to keep both her hands free to grasp mine.

“I just wanted to thank you for your service and your honesty up there on stage today,” she said as she took my hand with both of hers while maintaining direct eye contact. She wore a small, sad smile and didn’t blink. “The fighting you boys did for … us … .” Her voice trailed off as she tried to find words. “Well, no one should have to go through what you and your friends did.”

It humbled me into awkwardness for my experience to be honored by my elders. I quickly thanked her as I studied my dress shoes. I may have even told her it wasn’t so bad out there, just to make her feel better. I was aware that she was old enough to have possibly said the same words 50 years earlier to an entirely different group of returning veterans, maybe even to the man standing beside her.

“It would be an honor if you could sign this,” she said, releasing my hands and untucking the copy of Battle Company 2-503rd’s story.

She made small talk about my speech and said she’d watched the documentary, “Restrepo,” as I signed my name underneath the big block letters of WAR.

“I have to admit, from the movie, I thought you’d be bigger,” she added.

I finished signing the book and handed it back while thinking of how to respond. Her kind eyes told me no harm was intended. It was just an observation, yet I wanted to defend myself.

I wanted to tell her that the bigger the guy, the bigger the target. I wanted to tell her how the men who could walk like goats through the Hindu Kush mountains with 100 pounds on their backs were shorter than her, which I guessed to be just a few inches over five feet. I bit my tongue when I began to tell her that “Restrepo” wasn’t a movie and there were no actors cast for the part.

My emotions in check, I told her that most of the men I had served with were no bigger than me. I added, politely, that the legendary Spartans averaged five-foot-six.”

With more people in line behind her, we said our quick goodbyes.

But her observation bugged me the rest of the day, and I couldn’t understand why. It bugged me so much that I began my next speech by asking the audience, “By a show of hands, who thought I would be bigger?”

Between the chuckles, dozens of hands raised. I laughed with them.

Around this time, 2013, I was speaking regularly around the country about my combat deployment and the journey back home to a range of people: veterans, college students, mental health professionals, and anyone else who would listen.

After the encounter with the woman, I began each speech with that question and received the same response.

At the end of each speech, the little line formed with the same kind of questions and the same kind of praise, “Your friends and you are our country’s heroes.” Or something very similar.

The almost universal reactions, observations, and questions from the audiences exposed a misconception in our country about veterans, and more broadly, about how we define “hero.” It wasn’t just the audiences that were confused about veterans and heroes. I was, too.

I had strong mixed emotions about what service to my country meant to me. I served six years in the Army, and in May 2007, I deployed with the 173rd Airborne Brigade to the Korengal Valley, Afghanistan, for 15 months. I lived those long, hard months with my own well-being and needs second to those of the group. That is the mentality in combat; it is always “we.”

I was and am proud that I served honorably.

Yet, at the end of our deployment when a Bronze Star was given to all the men who had served the full 15 months, to all the men I had fought alongside for 15 months, I was given a lesser award. An Army Commendation Medal. There was no explanation why. I have repeatedly asked my former leaders for a reason, but the closest thing to an answer cast blame on Army bureaucracy.

I didn’t care about the award itself, I cared about what the award represented: the Army recognizing the sacrifices and honoring the job we did. I was there doing the same job and sacrificing the same as everyone else, but when the Army recognized me with a lesser award, it effectively told me that my service wasn’t equal to theirs.

It shattered my idea of what my service meant to me and to the Army I’d fought for. I felt betrayed, making my last few months of service more miserable than any war could.

I left the military in December 2008 with an honorable discharge and a lot of questions about what my service meant to me, the Army, and my country. It helped me to see that the crowds I spoke to were filled with a lot of the same kind of questions.

A couple of years after finding out I was too small to be me, I was living on the eastern edge of the U.S.A. in Provincetown, Cape Cod. The small coastal town, as old as America’s story, was port for the Mayflower before the ship continued west to mainland Plymouth, Massachusetts.

Nowadays, visitors come to Provincetown by road rather than by sea. Provincetown is at the end of the 60-mile-long island, which draws two distinct types of people to the small town by the sea: ones who are incredibly lost or ones who have made the choice to be at the terminal point of a 60-mile island.

I was both as I dealt with a failed marriage, coped with the death of my father who’d died a year after my return from war, and tried to get a handle on a crippling alcohol problem, all while trying to find meaning in my now peaceful life. With combat’s constant deadly threat, to be alive and keep each other alive is meaning enough. Without that pressure, meaning became harder to define.

While living in Provincetown and dealing with those issues, I continued to search how best to honor my military service, which had become harder to do as I struggled to reconcile being called a hero by the public, knowing what the Army thought of my service. I didn’t know who was right or if they were both wrong.

I was living illegally inside of an old, bare building that had been a ship-refitting wharf until a bunch of returning World War I veterans who wanted to make art and hang out with each other bought it and turned it into an artist club.

They’d hardly changed the inside of the building, besides adding a huge fireplace, some long dinner tables, and a pool and billiards table. Nearly 100 years later when I lived there, the walls still hadn’t been insulated.

During the winter, it became so cold in the building that the top layer of the toilet water froze; I kept a stick next to the toilet to break the ice in order to go to the bathroom. I was given a studio with free room and board in return for taking care of the place and cleaning up the weekly dinner that had been eaten every Saturday since 1916.

I slept in the studio’s loft on a worn mattress. From my window, I had a view of the harbor and the boats moored in it. I tried to create beautiful things from chunks of wood and stone; I sculpted the moored boats, figures of nude women, and primitive wooden clubs. It is the most healing place I have ever lived.

I also spent a lot of time on my leaky 25-foot fiberglass sailboat, The Irish Mist. When I lay in the boat’s damp cabin bed, rolling on the protected harbor’s swells, I felt so far from the country I had fought for and the questions about my service and honor, and so far from the feeling that my country and I didn’t know what the word hero actually meant.

My Provincetown P.O. box had a surprise waiting in early 2015, when the town was dead and there was hardly any news at all besides the howling winds of approaching nor’easters.

The letter was from Cape Cod’s American Red Cross. Eight years separated the last time I had received a Red Cross message. The previous message found me at the tail end of a fighting season in the Korengal in October 2007, informing me that my younger sister was seriously hurt and that I needed to come home to possibly say my goodbye.

Eight years later, a dread washed over me as I opened the letter in the post office lobby. Luckily, the envelope contained no threat of possible goodbyes; rather, it shocked me to find a note congratulating me that I would be honored by Cape Cod’s Red Cross as a “Local Veteran Hero.”

I received the news with trepidation.

Before I could accept it, I needed to know what they were giving me the award for. If it was for my military service, I didn’t want it. Not that it wouldn’t have been an honor; it would’ve been. But it would have come from the wrong people. The Army should have honored and recognized my service to the country. I hadn’t reconciled those mixed feelings when the Red Cross letter came in the mail, but by that point I no longer wanted any award for the violence of war.

The Red Cross award started unraveling years of confusion for me about why being called a hero for my service hurt instead of feeling good. That woman with the book tucked under her arm, and all the ones who followed her, the audiences, and the country in general had a perception of me and my service. They thought I should be bigger, and they thought what I did overseas had made me a hero. On the other side of the spectrum was the Army, to whom I was just another number.

But to the local Red Cross, and my community, I was more. Through phone calls and emails with a Red Cross representative, I was relieved to learn they didn’t want to honor my military service directly. Instead, they wanted to honor my honest speeches about war and homecoming, the volunteer work I’d done with returning veterans, and the peace I worked toward in myself and my community.

The award helped me clarify what a real veteran hero looks like and what it takes to become one. Serving honorably during combat, I’ve come to believe, is only the beginning. The next step starts when you return home, bringing with you the lessons you learned. In war, I learned that the most human thing we can do is put our own needs, wants, and ego second to the community we live in.

The fallen in war have learned combat’s most profound lesson, and their deathly silence demands that we learn the cost of war. The living have valuable lessons about war’s toll as well, though, and I’ve hardly been asked about mine.

It finally clicked as I was writing my speech for the award ceremony that I hadn’t served the Army; I had served my country, the United States of America. To honor my own contribution, I’ve started taking my own advice and reminding myself that my service isn’t over yet. What I have learned is that I don’t want to be recognized and honored only for my contribution in war.

We veterans have so much more to give and teach our country than just what we did overseas.

To honor our service, civilians who haven’t served need to ask what we’ve learned, and veterans need to speak.

Category: Military issues, Terror War

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MCPO NYC USN Ret.

Hard to read, but glad I did.

What a Soldier!

ChipNASA

Annnnnnnnnnddd *Mic drop*.

How can I event intelligently comment after reading all of that?

Rather impressive, I must say.

AW1Ed

Old saying, “Physician, heal thyself” meaning that before attempting to correct others, make sure that you aren’t guilty of the same faults. I think it’s appropriate here, and it seems he has.

2/17 Air Cav

When I was a kid, I imagined that every one of the MOH recipients was 6’2″ and 220 lbs of solid muscle. I think that Audie Murphy, standing 5’5″–probably with very thick socks on) was my eye opener. Thereafter, I learned that very many of our bravest and fiercest fighting men have been of diminutive physical stature.

2/17 Air Cav

Chesty Puller was 5’7″ and MadDog Mattis 5’9″…My own personal hero, Charles E. Getz (VN: DSC/Seven Silver Stars…) stands about 5’6″

Mason

Hadn’t heard of BG Getz. Just looked him up.

http://www.veterantributes.org/TributeDetail.php?recordID=839

Now that’s a look that’ll eat the olive drab off a tank. I’d hate to be the guy that disappoints that man. And look at all those valor awards! His DSC citation is incredible. Entrenched enemy sending withering fire at his helo and he’s like “set me down over there.”

2/17 Air Cav

Thanks for looking. Now one more knows about this man among men. He was the real deal and is, today, alive and (I hope) well.

26Limabeans

Two ARCOMS side by side.
One with multiple V devices
The other plain jane but certainly earned.

Randy Newman’s song not withstanding

USMC Steve

A letter to his congressman would most likely have gotten him his answer as to why Big Army shafted him over, along with some well deserved stress for them. Nobody at Big Army likes Congrints.

MSG Eric

At this point in life, Big Army really gives a fuck about anyone from Congress asking a question. They’ve become desensitized to “Congressionals” and barely pay attention to them. Perhaps a few years ago, when Restrepo happened, might’ve been different.

Timothy Hurley

I have a matter with the VA and the Army Review Board and have had my Congressman and Senator look into it and they have blown both of them off.

MSG Eric

Not the first time I’ve heard that about the Review Board.

HMC Ret

11 years working for the VA and I know the above statement is true. Congressional correspondence was treated with the same indifference as was mail from Joe Smo.

2/17 Air Cav

“I was there doing the same job and sacrificing the same as everyone else, but when the Army recognized me with a lesser award, it effectively told me that my service wasn’t equal to theirs. It shattered my idea of what my service meant to me and to the Army I’d fought for. I felt betrayed, making my last few months of service more miserable than any war could.”

I think those two lines can explain why he didn’t receive the Attaboy Bronze.

Mason

That was one of the reasons I didn’t re-up. I watched people get medals for being smoke break buddies with the right people. Meanwhile, I worked my ass off and didn’t take a break every hour and never got any individual awards. Even went out of my way to make the big time screw up in our flight look competent (so we’d all look better as a team) only to hear a full bird ask why he hadn’t been given his staff sergeant stripes yet, because “he deserves them”. Well, ma’am, when I work his mouth like a ventriloquist dummy, he does a good job.

2/17 Air Cav

Isn’t that true everywhere, inside and outside of the military? Who you know, not what you know. The trick is to be satisfied with your own performance, do the job well, and take quiet satisfaction in knowing that the people who count, those you serve with or, on the outside, those you work with, know what’s what. When the shit hits the fan, it’s not the asskissers who are looked to.

2/17 Air Cav

Speaking of not looking to the asskissers, have you ever noticed how many recipients of major valor awards were anything but the model of decorum and military deportment? Some had one foot in the stockade half the time.

Mason

I suppose that’s true. Obviously I’m still a little bitter, but it’s only been more than a decade. 😉 I shouldn’t be. I did my job, did it well, and served when most of my generation wouldn’t even consider it.

I have spent the years since trying to make sure I point out and adequately recognize the good work of those around and under me. Not everyone is motivated by a ribbon or a plaque or certificate. For those that are, a $.10 piece of paper with a signature can make them your best employee (as Napoleon once said). For those that don’t, at least it’ll help when they go for a promotion or another job. Resume padding never hurts.

2/17 Air Cav

Two? Numbers again.

2banana

Way too much time wasted and hard feelings in getting an ARCOM over a Bronze Star.

Nobody cares either. A “V” device or a CIB means so much more.

And if you took care of your soldiers in your charge.

USMC Steve

Honestly, a Bronze Star these days without a “V” device doesn’t mean all that much. Even in the Marine Corps, I saw officers routinely getting these things. The entire 4th MEB officer staff got them after Desert Storm.

2/17 Air Cav

Everyone likes to be told that they did a good job. Some people need to hear it and, if they don’t, they’ll tell you how wonderful they are. (I can think of one guy here who does that in every comment. It used to bother me. Now I just laugh.) What! He got a trophy?!@ I’m as good as he was! I have no use for such people. I’m glad this Vet got his shit in order. I hope that it stays in order and that he does not make the mistake of defining himself by what did or didn’t happen in service.

Steve

It’s so common man. Like, seriously common. My good friend is still kinda like that. When we hang out, the conversation just naturally drifts that way again, to the deployment. He won’t shut up about it sometimes.

It’s weird because I think a lot of guys go through that when we first get home. Eventually you just kind of realise that you’re being one of those guys that does what you said ‘defining themselves by the fact that you *used* to be in the Army’.

Kinda like the ‘professional veteran’ article from Duffelblog (very funny btw).

It takes some people a bit of a kick up the arse to get their shit in one sock again and crack on.

2/17 Air Cav

Service is a life-changing experience and, for many, it will be the most important and challenging thing they do in life. Hell, in many cases, months after you’re done playing high school sports or having a teacher call mommy about your bad behavior, you’re doing some serious shit that can get you or someone else killed. That’s a helluva hello to adulthood. But as Jonn used to point out, a great many people who served and had issues, arrived with those issues. The service didn’t implant them. Moving on with life can be tough for some Vets, but that’s precisely what must be done.

Mason

Steve, in some groups it’s hard for the conversation not to go there. Get in a room full of vets (even from multiple eras) and pretty soon you’re sharing funny stories. I think part of that is that you need to be in that group of those who “get it” in order to tell those stories. A civilian might find it humorous that a guy shows up to formation on percocet and starts wigging out and dancing around claiming to be hallucinating, but a vet will think it’s a lot funnier.

Let’s face it, a lot of military stories can not, and should not, be told to outsiders. What happens on TDY (TAD for you naval-types), stays on TDY. 😉

MSG Eric

Funny thing, when I received my MSM for duty in my last unit years ago, I was at a new unit with an acting battalion commander. After the little ceremony finished, I was in his office talking to him and the S-3 and the S-3 was like “wow, so how many of those do you have?” “This is my first one”.

This Major blurts out, “Well, it doesn’t mean anything. It is an award for being stateside. I think only awards you get downrange mean anything.” I didn’t know what to say, but then the S-3 said, well that’s still a big deal, I don’t even have an MSM, do you? And that guy said, “no, I don’t.” That’s all I needed to know as to why he felt that way. A lowly E-7 had an MSM and he didn’t.

I used to think it was a big thing to have that higher award. But, I got to a point after Afghanistan I didn’t even want another award because buying a new rack is so f’n expensive. As a Senior NCO I can’t just go to supply and ask for stuff to put together myself, I need to buy a professionally built rack and it adds up.

SFC (R) Blizz

The lack of a higher award probably was a rank thing. They want the award for service to be in keeping with the responsibility of the recipient. What happens is a SPC working as a team or squad leader gets less of an award then the other SGT team leaders. Its crap, but that’s how it works unfortunately. I was able to get 1 of my SSGs a bronze star as opposed to a ARCOM but I had to fight tooth and nail, write statements, ect.. to get it approved. Service awards for combat deployments have always been an issue. It was before, it is now, it will be in the future. When has the Army ever been completely fair about anything? You hit the nail on the head at the end of your article. We want the recognition from the Army because its something you care about, you committed your life to it for the time you are there. To not be recognized in keeping with what you felt your service deserved is a tough pill to swallow. What I’ve learned as a civilian is we’re the only people who care, veterans. Civilians have no understanding of medals, awards, even what you do. When they thank you for your service, they’re thanking you for serving your country, not for humping mountains in Afghanistan or rolling through the streets of Baghdad. They have no frame of reference, they have nothing that it compares to in their life. They know the military through movies, TV, the internet, and video games. Its unfortunate that its that way in our country. We’re the reason for that, the military has done a superior job at confronting threats away from our shores. Our citizens have never had a rampaging Army pass through, they’ve never been shelled, and its been that way for countless generations. Be proud of who you are, what you did, and the simple fact that you volunteered to serve your country. If you can find satisfaction in that, you’ve begun to understand life. Great article.

Steve Weeks

I was Drafted in 69, spend 13 months in Southeast Asia, left with a Good Conduct Metal and very happy to be alive. I did not get so much as a Thank You from the Army. I am proud of the fact that I was able to service my Country. I do not need a Thank You.

2/17 Air Cav

Welcome home.

Dave Hardin

Rah

26Limabeans

Trying to reconcile what you think of your service with what others think of of it is an exercise in futility. They have their own concept of your contribution.
Nothing wrong with an ARCOM either.

Yes, well written and easy to follow with all the points connected.

charles w

He kind of made it sound as if he were singled out. Maybe, maybe not. Having seen Restrepo he was interviewed quite a bit. When I was in, an ARCOM was not exactly a gimme. I fortunately was awarded one for a deployment to Honduras. One of two for the whole company. Someone thought I deserved it. Maybe, maybe not.

OWB

Yeah, that’s what I got, too. It makes more sense if he was specifically excluded from something everyone else there got.

MSG Eric

When I was in Afghanistan in 11-12, AAMs and ARCOMs were submit as a roster on a memo for the end of tour award. (which you’d get as long as you didn’t get NJP, Courts-Martial, flagged, etc.) If you wanted to do something higher than that, you had to do the old fashioned DA 638 with a “narrative” enclosed.

But, I don’t know how long prior that policy was in place. And honestly, we really don’t know the deal of what happened with his award. It might’ve just been a paperwork glitch. It could’ve been something deeper. There are a lot of possibilities there.

Roh-Dog

Man… that honesty about a fellow Veteran’s suffering has it a bit dusty in here.
Personal opinion(s) alert: With the help of the media, I think our community too often focuses on the failures among us as opposed to the successes, such as Mr. O’Byrne.
Maybe we expect too much of ourselves and each other to laud ourselves…
Regardless, f**king proud of that guy and all of you degenerates!

Yef

Cry baby wants a meritorious bronze star as end of tour award?

He can eat shit.

I have never meet an SSG or below who got one as a end of tour.

This dude does not understand the award system.

Steve

Sheesh.

26Limabeans

“I have never meet an SSG or below who got one as a end of tour”

Two Spec 5’s in my last assignment got them and went on to further AD. I got the ARCOM and DEROS’d. Trust me, they earned them.

Some “lesser” awards carry a great deal of pride to those who earned them. Just the simple phrase “in support of the United States objectives in the Republic of Vietnam” tells me all I need to know about my own service. I get to stand next to everyone else in the group photo.

Mason

Or he does understand the awards system and doesn’t like the political nature of it.

MSG Eric

I put an E-5 on my team in for a Bronze Star in Afghanistan and he deserved it for what he was doing.

They are out there, just because you haven’t met one doesn’t mean they don’t happen. Regulations don’t say “in order to get X award you must be X rank”, even if that’s often how it happens.

Sounds more like you’re upset you didn’t get one yourself?

Yef

In order to get a bronze star medal as end of tour award you have to be E-7 and above.

Don’t confuse end of tour and PCS award with valor and meritorious awards.

And I have a valor award, but I don’t like talking about that.

Ex-PH2

Yef, we DO expect you to be the BIGGER person about this.

Don’t you have paper clips and staples to sort? If not, I’ll get you some.

Mick

“And I have a valor award, but I don’t like talking about that.”

Well, you did just talk about it, Yef.

If you “don’t like talking about that”, then why did you bring it up in this thread?

Yef

MSG Eric said I was crying like a bitch because i didn’t get an award.
My bitching is not about me, i got mine, but about the people that think they deserve an award because they don’t know how awards work in the Army.

You don’t get a medal for just doing your job.

Claw

“You don’t get a medal for just doing your job.”

Total Bullshit. I received multiple medals for “just doing my job.”

Day after day after day, the same routine. My job everyday, all day.

Quick, don’t think too much on it. What medal am I describing?

OWB

Don’t know what award you are describing but USAF awarded several things to me for just showing up where they expected me to be and doing what they expected me to do. I am grateful that I never earned any for getting hurt.

MSG Eric

I got a medal for showing up and getting a passing grade.

I got another medal for showing up during a certain time frame.

I got another medal for being around for 3 years, then every 3 years after that.

I got another medal for being around during a certain time frame.

I got yet another medal for being around during a certain time frame, for a specific amount of time.

I got another medal about 9 times for going TDY to Korea for more than 8 days at a time.

I got yet another medal for being in Korea during a certain time frame for a certain amount of time.

I got a medal (again!) for being around after a couple plans got flown into buildings.

The others I had to do actual deployments to the Balkans, Iraq, Afghanistan, but I think that gets the point across. 😉

And you were being a cry baby about someone else you claimed was being a cry baby, excellent irony right there.

Mick

“i got mine”

That’s right, Yef; that says it all right there. You got yours. No further explanation is necessary.

You posted the statement “And I have a valor award, but I don’t like talking about that” above precisely because you want everyone here at TAH to think that you have a “valor award”.

You appear to believe that a “valor award” is some sort of merit badge that validates your worth as a soldier and proves that you are somehow better than your fellow servicemembers.

It doesn’t, and you aren’t.

Your service isn’t any more special or significant than that of any of the other veterans here at TAH.

This may come as a surprise to you, but there are numerous combat veterans who have received “valor awards” here at TAH; you’re not the only one with that experience. It would serve you well to remember that.

Start showing some humility around here, and stop the incessant, disrespectful whining regarding other veterans’ awards.

26Limabeans

“You don’t get a medal for just doing your job”

Sure you do. I’l bet you have at least one.
I’ll bet you have at least a couple of gold bars on your right sleeve also just for being “there” wether you did a good job or not.

MSG Eric

So I looked at AR 600-8-22, dated 25 June 2015 and it mentions nothing about a rank/grade requirement for receiving the BSM as a “meritorious” award (which you are calling end of tour). If there is a written regulation from anyone else that specifically dictates that “ONLY E-7 and above!” can receive a certain level of award for a deployment, that’s a violation of AR 600-8-22 and an IG complaint, unless there’s a newer version published that I didn’t see. When I PCS’d from one duty station I was told I’d be submit for an MSM, I got an ARCOM in the mail. I asked my old boss about it and his response was, “Well, ‘the they’ said only E-8 and above would be getting MSMs from now on.” All I said was, fine, send me the written regulation, email, etc., that specifies that. Please. No one could because it’s a violation of regs to select by rank and nothing was written in a policy or email about it. And I submit my E-5 for a BSM as his tour award and it was approved. He’s not the only one I’ve seen receive one as an EOT either (Which, for CA units are approved/published through a BCT HQ, per the awards regulation.) At the end of the day, you can submit an E-1 for a Legion of Merit because they graduated Basic Combat Training. Will it get approved? Maybe during the last administration it might have, but not now. It’ll just be downgraded, if it is approved at all. You submit awards as YOU see that the Soldier should receive. If they want to downgrade it, let them downgrade it and then go back and ask, WTH? Usually you can have a conversation before they publish the award. “If I need to make it stronger, I can make it stronger. The Soldier deserves it.” Granted, some commanders / approving authorities think that giving a Soldier an award will cost them money out of their paycheck, which is bullshit and they are dirtbags for thinking that. But, that’s a whole different… Read more »

SFC D

Aaaaand that rank requirement is stated in exactly what AR, Yef?

Get your ass back on that buffer. I’m revoking all your attaboys. Stop by supply first, pick up your week’s supply of midol. Counseling will be recorded on DA Form IMT WF1.

Yef

In other words, MSG Eric, you cannot award two medals for the same thing.
Even if you get a MOH during a deployment, your end of tour award would still be an ARCOM if E-6 and below.

If one of your Soldiers did something that deserves an award, then you have to process it separated from the end of tour award.

MSG Eric

Huh?

SFC D

Hush, Yef. Grown folks are talking.

MCPO NYC USN Ret.

You lost the point Yef.

1610desig

I really didn’t “get” the award thing he griped about. I vividly recall eating in a 3rd ID DFAC in Iraq and seeing a plaque of rememberance honoring unit soldiers KIA…those too numerous soldiers had each received a Purple Heart and Bronze Star for valor. I think he’s much better off with his ARCOM. And, the “bigger” thing just didn’t register whatsoever. Some people say silly, nervous or misinterpreted things. We all receive those and perhaps deliver them on occasion as well. Anyway, I hope he really does work it out and move forward. Many others who gave more either did or simply didn’t have the option.

Dave Hardin

The Marine who ran screaming the alarm to warn as many as possible seconds before the Beirut bombing got a Purple Heart, a few hundred stitches, months in rehab, and orders to the Drill Field.

The Corps did not used to give out Valor Awards for following your 8th General Order.

I understand the young mans resentment and I am glad he has moved on from it. As William Money said, “Deserves got nuttin to do with it”.

Skyjumper

“I thought you were bigger” That’s what she said! ( Sorry, but someone had to say it) (grin) From my own experience, most of my soldiers and I knew that our job was to work hard to up-train ourselves to properly perform any mission given to us or to train others so that, when the time came, use that knowledge for themselves or to pass unto others so they also would become proficient in their duties as a soldier. There wasn’t much if any thought given to the idea about receiving an award for performing our job even if we went above and beyond. We worked as a team, trained as a team and trained others as a team. Sure, at times the weather & conditions sucked, hours were long, trainees were “difficult”, essential equipment broke down or wasn’t available, command could be a pain in the ass (dog & pony shows out on the ranges) and at times we got on each others cases. But, despite all of the negatives, when it was over, we knew that we had all come together and performed our duties to the best of our ability & conditions and made a difference. That stood for when we were training or on a mission. We were a team. No one could ever take that away from us. One incident in particular still floats around in my head. This happened at Fort Hood back in the late 80’s. We had just finished up running a cycle of privates thru rifle marksmanship. It was hot, dusty, dealing with big ass multi-colored centipedes that loved to hide in the foxholes under the sandbags (which we had to check every morning before “Snuffy” came out to shoot), scorpions, chiggers and long hours. We were at the range the last day, all grungy & sweaty cleaning up the range for the next cycle, when the Capt. tells us that our presence was “requested” at the auditorium for an awards ceremony. We tried to get out of it because we knew what was going to happen plus we just wanted… Read more »

AnotherPst

Skyjumper, you wrote:

“This happened at Fort Hood back in the late 80’s.”

“….there was even a Bronze Star awarded to a Chaplain’s Assistant (don’t ask cuz I still don’t have a clue why).”

This is interesting since the Bronze Star is only awarded during a wartime mission. The only “wartime” mission I could think of that occurred in the late 80s was OJC.

Also, I thought Chaplains and their assistants did not carry firearms.

Am confused 🤔

Skyjumper

Another Pat, sorry about the delay in getting back to you.

Hope it doesn’t sound like I’m backtracking on my story, but you are right about the Bronze Star (non-valor) being awarded only for meritorious achievement, or meritorious service in a combat zone.

Maybe chalk it up to bad memory, but I do recall he received a rather high award (ARCOM?) that made all of us look at each other & say “what”?

As to a Chaplain or his assistant carrying firearms. Some Chaplains do qualify if they wish to, but in the US Military they are not allowed to carry. Although, there have been reported instances where a few Chaplains did in the European Theater during WWII.

Chaplain’s assistants however, are armed.

Sorry about the confusion with my initial post and thanks for bringing it to my attention, AnotherPat

AnotherPat

Thank You, Skyjumper, for the clarification…no need for apologies…I understand now (still enjoy your story about coming in from the Range to attend the Award ceremony..😉).

Learned something new again…this time being that Chaplain’s Assistants ARE armed…guess they have to take care of their Boss…😊

Appreciate you getting back to my inquiry. Thanks again, Skyjumper! 👍

MSG Eric

After I became an E-6, I found out that Chaplain’s assistants can go to all the super cool schools because they are the only protection for that chaplain on the battlefield. So if they want to go through schools commensurate with being in a Special Operations Unit, they can go.

If I’d have known that when I started, I might have tried to become a Chaplain’s assistant just for the, “oh I get to go to all these cool schools, then come back and carry this bag for the Chaplain and that’s about it.”

Ex-PH2

Awards? Awards??? You want awards? I got a paper bag full of them from competing over fences on the back of a horse. They’re all so faded the colors are nearly gone and the gold ink has leached away into time. I’ve got a box full of cat show ribbons, too, for ‘Best Household Pet’.

Geezo Pete, I can go to a fabric store, buy some grosgrain ribbon and glue, hit the surplus shop for a bunch of gedunk ribbons and those multirow bars, and make up my own awards, and confuse the living daylights out of the general public.

It may be obvious to most of us, but when someone gets the head butt or the pat on the back and you don’t, it does NOT mean you didn’t do a good job. If you know you did your best, but someone else got the cookie or the Eskimo pie, then you need to be adult enough to say ‘Congratulations’, instead of doing what those obnoxious Olympians do when someone got they gold and they didn’t.

PLEASE don’t pull a Tonya Harding on anyone… EVER!!!.

Ex-PH2

I’d like to add to my rant by reminding all of you that Adolf Hitler had to hand an Olympic gold medal to a black man named Jesse Owens.

That must have really curdled his curds and whey.

MSG Eric

It also goes to show how good he was at propaganda while he was in power. He told Germany to treat every person from every other country with respect and courtesy, etc etc., and not treat them how he really felt about them needing to be exterminated.

If there were a youtube back there, you know at least one person would be secretly taping him going on a rant about how all the black people kicked butt with his select few and uploaded to the internet.

MCPO NYC USN Ret.

Who in this group wants to lead the effort to upgrade his ARCOM to BS?

It starts with one dedicated leader … and it is not me or Dave.

And we don’t need anyone’s permission either.

MCPO OUT.

AnotherPat

Skyjumper, you wrote:

“This happened at Fort Hood back in the late 80’s.”

“….there was even a Bronze Star awarded to a Chaplain’s Assistant (don’t ask cuz I still don’t have a clue why).”

This is interesting since the Bronze Star is only awarded during a wartime mission. The only “wartime” mission I could think of that occurred in the late 80s was OJC.

Also, I thought Chaplains and their assistants did not carry firearms.

Am confused 🤔

OWB

Chaplains don’t carry firearms but their assistants do. It is the job of the assistant to protect the chaplain. Among other things.

MSG Eric

We don’t technically have to be at “war” for someone to receive a BSM, with or without a V. (Technically we aren’t at war now, even when it was called the ‘global war on terrorism’, later renamed to ‘contingency operations’ because GWOT sounded too mean.)

During “peacetime” it only requires “military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force” (where the US is not the belligerent).

There were a lot of little events during the 80s that could’ve met that requirement. (Just Cause, Grenada, etc.)

streetsweeper

One might consider the single, greatest award you would ever receive for a tour or several in combat is, coming home alive. Just saying.

IDC SARC

The awards system…yeah, after 24 years of seeing it, I have nothing nice to say.

RM3(SS)

Ok, I know except in time of war us bubbleheads don’t get much in the way of awards, although my Chief had a couple rows (including a PUC from his time in the Riverine force Vietnam).
When I EAOS’d in 1975 I was given the best award I could ask for~A DD214 and Honorable Discharge Certificate. My 214 didn’t even reflect the ribbons I should have, but I didn’t care.

SFC D

Bubbleheads don’t get awards because if you’re doing your job right, nobody knows you’re even there…

FatCircles0311

Haha this is where the marine corps shines. They don’t give out shit, so you can’t really dwell on not getting pieces of flair. Although I was present for an award ceremony for a fucking badass being recognized for his actions in combat resulting in saving other marines lives, he only got a Navy achievement medal…. it was pathetic. Also I saw NAM’s given out for literal drawings. The marine corps is silly but I don’t think anyone ever dwelled on the lack of awards. When I got a certificate of commendation I’ll admit I was kind of purplexed why it wasn’t a NAM, but I wasn’t upset or bitter about it. I still have that certcom and am proud as shit about it though. I value that over many ribbons I have in which I have no idea why I have them.

The veteran identity is strong and a life long one. Sadly the responsibility, comraddery, and purpose really isn’t found in many other civilian occupations and it’s something every veteran has to come to terms with. I still feel out of place over a decade later myself and I’m not sure if I’ll ever find such a clear purpose in my life again. I feel like this is the central issue facing vets today that is only increasing due to wars never ending(not having closure) and the massive divide culturally between national service and the vast majority that has no clue.

SFC D

I had a very similar incident with an award. Last trip to Iraq (2015), it was pretty much a done deal that PSG’s got an MSM. Bronze stars just weren’t gonna happen ‘cuz we don’t do a lot of stuff in Signal to warrant that award. Award time comes around, SFC D gets an ARCOM. I was kinda grumpy about it, I just chalked it up to the fact that I was a tremendous pain in the ass for my incompetent, ass-kissing 1SG both on the deployment and prior. You know the type, “it’s better to look good than to be good”. I wasn’t all that upset, but my platoon of 45 cable-dogs pretty much lost their shit over it, and that was greater to me than any award I could have gotten.

MSG Eric

It is kind of tough to deal with the “why?” of awards when you see some get something and/or when you set an expectation for a particular level of award.

You stay in long enough and you experience getting a lower level award than what someone else did, often for far lesser results.

Knowing what you’ve done is “fine”, but still getting recognition for what you’ve done is still a necessity at times.

The frustrating thing in that is, usually recognition is so fucking easy to do. Even writing up an award for someone is easy. But how accepting should we really be if higher ups are lazy about it as a recurring event. It can be taxing on the motivation.

Mick

“The frustrating thing in that is, usually recognition is so fucking easy to do. Even writing up an award for someone is easy.”

Shack.

I used to put my deserving Marines and Corpsmen in for awards (based on individual combat/meritorious actions) whenever it was warranted, and with the current automated systems, it took very little actual time and effort for me to do so. Some awards were subsequently downgraded, but I don’t remember ever having one completely disapproved.

The looks on the faces of those Marines and Corpsmen as they were busting with pride while they were standing out in front of the formation receiving their awards was something that money simply cannot buy. A small effort by leadership to recognize well-deserving Marines and Sailors paid big dividends in motivation and morale.

MSG Eric

Fuckin’ A.

AnotherPat
Bruno Stachel

Read the citation. He got a medal for JUST DOING HIS JOB as an infantryman. He didn’t do any more than countless other infantrymen have done in Iraq and Afghanistan.

CIB, and maybe an ARCOM. No more than that.

Another obvious case of award inflation.

DefendUSA

Indeed. With faith, love, grace. Service.

Denise Williams

Two thoughts.

First, I would have answered his question, “…because every time I meet a warrior who is not 6’8″ I find it incongruous a smaller frame can contain the magnitude of honor, service and integrity of a warrior.”

Second, he said everyone who did the full 15 months received the Bronze Star. Later, he references receiving a Red Cross message to come home because of his sister. It’s not clear that he went home, nor is it clear if his unit was receiving those 10 day midtour R&R rotations. Perhaps if they did, and he did his and then he also had a Red Cross leave, it was felt he didn’t do the same full 15 months as everyone else.