Oregon shooter was discharged from the Army for being suicidal
NASDAQ reporting for the Dow Jones Business News says that the fellow who shot the people at the community college in Oregon last week had been discharged from the Army because he was suicidal.
The details of the suicide attempt haven’t been made public. But it is the latest indication that […]—described by former friends and neighbors as a disaffected loner who loved firearms and disliked religion—had been deeply troubled long before opening fire on fellow students and a teacher in Oregon.
The Army discharge didn’t affect […]’s ability to legally purchase firearms. He didn’t receive a dishonorable discharge, which would have required a court-martial, according to an Army spokesman. Because he didn’t have that type of discharge, often deemed equivalent to a felony, he wasn’t precluded from buying guns under existing federal law.
The nature of his administrative separation is protected by privacy laws, and an Army spokesman said it could have been for a wide variety of reasons.
So, I’m not sure who is to blame here. Maybe the Department of Defense needs some sort of special dispensation to add these people’s name to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) if they put them out on the street.
Thanks to Chief Tango for the link.
Category: Army News
Well, I’m no shrink but it occurs to me that suicidal and homicidal aren’t synonyms. If he had been precluded from owning or possessing a firearm, his choice of weapon may have been a Buick and his target a school playground. Who the hell knows? I just wish he had acted on his suicidal tendency first.
Yep
Why do these types not just shoot themselves first and save a few steps?
They do, you just don’t read about it in the news.
I disagree.
I consider suicide and homicide to be identical.
Whether the murder is of one’s self or of some other human being, it is still murder.
There may be mitigating circumstances in some cases (such as Masada? or keeping secrets from an enemy power?), but it is still murder.
I don’t know if it still is, but I remember when attempted suicide was a crime, for which a potential survivor could be prosecuted.
So does God….our body is not for us to destroy! I read about a nurse that tried to off herself, she survived but was shown while out that people that commit suicide are destined to live the life they tried to escape from over and over and over!
Sounds like the young man was determined to have had a disqualifying condition that existed prior to entry. My guess would be some form of personality disorder.
Unless there’s clear evidence the condition was worsened by military service, what Uncle Sam owed him afterwards can be found between “diddly” and “squat”. And the Army was completely right to cut ties with him; someone who is so psychologically fragile the can’t make it thru basic training without trying to off themselves is IMO simply not suitable for military service, and needs to look elsewhere for employment.
That may sound harsh. It is. But the military is a harsh profession.
I agree with you, the Military is a hard profession.
If you say a harsh mistress as well, I’d agree with you completely. But you eithr make it or you don’t.
Frankly, considering the behavior of people like Manning, would it be fair to say that this heinous slimeball was after attention just as much as offing himself? He waited until he’d been shot twice by the sheriff’s deputies and then made a display of shooting himself in front of a captive audience. If it was only about suicide, he could have done it earlier without an audience.
The use of the term ‘suicidal’ looks to me like another bit of sensationalism by the media, mostly because hyperbole is their meme, and always has been.
I submit the term “narcissist” for this contest.
Of course it was ‘worsened’ by his military service. He was rejected. Rejection can most certainly be seen as something that exacerbated his condition.
So did every woman that rejected a relationship with him. Every acquaintance that shunned a friendship with him. Every clergy member that chose not to engage with him. Every teacher that chose not to connect with him.
Does that mean they are responsible for what he did. Of course not, but they all contributed in some manner.
We have allowed our social environment to become rabidly against any form of confrontation to behavior or beliefs. That is until, there is some act so egregious it can not be ignored.
The man singled out those of the Christian faith, made them stand, ridiculed their belief and shot them. There seems to be a lot of dancing around that fact. It has become an elephant in the room to me.
The military rejected him from service, as they probably should have. I could write an entire blog on the tenacious nature of this event we as a society do not want to talk about.
Lets not talk about the religious implications of what he did. Not a word about his repressed sexuality. Nothing about being shunned emotionally. Definitely no mention of his family enabling his behavior. We can not discuss any of those issues in a meaningful way because if we do then it will be shut down by hysterical claims that it is being done to justify his behavior or shift the blame away from him.
Fact is, there are a multitude of people that contributed to this event. He is ultimately responsible. Let us continue this social strategy of polarizing ourselves into diametrically opposing camps so we can blame the other side.
That strategy has been working so well.
I have an idea, lets blame the guns. Ya, thats it, its the access to guns that caused this problem. Terry Nichols and McVeigh used fertilizer, Cain killed Able with a rock. It would be refreshing and maybe even productive if we talked about causality without excusing the act.
The questions will always be “Why” and the best answer will always be “Because–and nothing follows.”
Currently, I completely agree with that. The question should probably always be “why”. There probably, even most certainly, is never going to be “A” cause defined.
Even an idiot like me learned as a junior NCO, Identify the problem, gather information, implement a solution. That shit is NCO 101.
“The” problem has been identified by you in such a succinct manner; “and nothing follows”.
The correct answer to ‘why’ is ‘because he could’.
Great Britain banned guns, they now have knife attacks out the wazoo, far more than they had gun crimes before the ban!
Add to your list the father he hadn’t seen in 2 years. A man who blames the guns rather than his disturbed son or himself.
I read where the squirrel was only in for about 2 weeks?
I would say its a 50/50 that he played the suicide card to get out of it. Decided he made a bad choice and the only way out of it was to play “I’m going to kill myself!”
There was at least that rate who said they were just to get out of being in the army, from my recollection.
Problem is, those medical records of them being suicidal (real or pretend) get protected by HIPAA laws where only specific types can get to them.
I see it all the time with my job. Not cutting it, cant seem function being away from family for a drill weekend, whatever it is to get out of duty. All of a sudden it spikes to suicide or conscientious objector. Got to goggling how to get out of the military and get all sorts of good advice from the internet RSP forums. Gets the spouse to write a letter about how his behavior changes around drill weekend. See them three months later and they are fine as can be. I feel sorry for the spouse that knows they are married to a wussy. It escalates to tragic shooting because you cant hold on to that rejection or feeling of inadequacy for too long before it breaks you down.
YEP, I saw a couple of those during my time in Basic & AIT!
I’ve had one dealing with one of these in the Army and it was no fun having to baby sit the jack ass
He should have made the cord around the neck and buffer out the window urban legend a reality.
The nature of his separation is protected by privacy laws? Someone doesnt know what a reenlistment code is or how to find it. You’re telling me that no -ahem- “resourceful, fact-finding journalist” can get this piece of shit’s DD-214? Shit, I know a couple of 79R’s….they could have that in no time.
In all seriousness though, someone should explain to whomever wrote that article that the Army doesn’t administratively separate you for attempting suicide. They separate you for the pre-existing condition that should have kept you from enlisting to begin with which resulted in your incompatibility with military service. The same condition which your recruiter should have sussed out during processing. Goddamn 79R’s and their specious paperwork.
And now I’ve come full circle. G’night.
So I supposes in the next couple of days we will be inundated with news media articles of how entry into the military is a gateway to suicidal / homocidal ideation just because it was discovered this turd was chapter separaetd from the Army and he was butt hurt over it.