Sinking CNN refloats the swift boats
In the media kerfuffle regarding Donald Trump’s stupid remarks about John McCain’s Vietnam service, the ratings-sinking CNN noted that while Jeb Bush had condemned Trump’s boorishness, he had long ago defended the swift boat veterans’ attacks against John Kerry. Had CNN been content to leave their news article with a passing reference to political history, I wouldn’t be writing this. But no, they just had to follow with a couple of pernicious lies that have long been poisonous serpents in that increasingly fetid swamp called the Democratic Party.
From the article:
All of the charges were contradicted by official military records and almost all of the men who served with Kerry came out in defense of their former crewmate, praising his courage. Only one of the swift boat critics served with Kerry.
Kerry received several medals for his service in Vietnam, including several Purple Heart medals for injuries he sustained in combat.
The CNN writer, perhaps a student at the time, apparently has no real knowledge of those records, or he would know that John Kerry cherry-picked for release those parts of his military records that were supportive of his heroic fairy tales, while refusing to open his entire records for media examination. When called out on that by the many men of the swift boat veterans organization who actually did serve with him – not the one man claimed by CNN – Kerry repeatedly promised to sign an authorization form allowing the Navy to release his full records. The operative words there are repeatedly promised. And then he promised again. And again, and again, and again and again, but guess what! It never happened throughout the course of the campaign, because John Kerry knew that what was in those records would torpedo his prospects as a presidential candidate.
And what might that torpedo be? Most likely it was a dishonorable or other form of unfavorable discharge given to Lieutenant Kerry for his traitorous behaviors in treating with the enemy. Kerry was still a commissioned junior naval officer when he met with North Vietnamese negotiators in Paris in May 1970, an action that could have brought charges of treason and a lengthy prison sentence. During the 2004 campaign, there was speculation by those investigating Kerry’s discharge that Jimmy Carter had reversed Kerry’s bad discharge in 1977 and issued an honorable version. That would have been an unusually long time between an officer’s separation from service, 1970, and the issuance of his discharge in 1977.
The fact that John Kerry to this day has never released his military records is quite telling when one considers the fact that upon losing the 2004 campaign, he vowed to sue the members of the swift boat veterans organization for defamation. After all, those sailors who had served with him in Vietnam had publicly challenged virtually every claim to valor and wounds that Kerry had made and ballyhooed during the campaign, effectively calling him a liar and a fraud, a candidate for president who had committed the later to come crime of stolen valor. Those were serious charges, and they were made quite prominently and quite publicly. Most importantly, they likely cost John Kerry the presidency of the United States of America.
If those swift boat charges were untrue, then John Kerry had himself the biggest, most publicly and financially damaging case of defamation the world has ever seen. There were of course the lost prestige and the need for vindication of character and valor, but more importantly, think of the financial losses. Kerry’s lawyers could point to the tens, maybe hundreds of millions made by Slick Willie since he left office, using that as a template for determining monetary damages. John Kerry could have won the largest defamation lawsuit in history, except for one thing: discovery. In any defamation suit against the swift boat veterans, John Kerry knew full well that first among the documents subpoenaed by the lawyers for the swifties would be his full and entire military records.
The primary defense against defamation, libel, or slander, any of those torts against demeaning and damaging a person’s character or performance, is truth. If what they say about you is true, then you can’t sue them successfully for saying so. John Kerry knew that not only was truth on the side of the swift boat veterans, but there might also be further disclosures in those records that he did not want to see made public. That has to be the only reason that John Kerry’s long-promised and repeatedly threatened lawsuit against the swift boat veterans never came to be.
John Kerry is and was a phony hero. Of course, the fact that he lied about his military service and caused truly good and faithful sailors to be demonized by the liberal media actually qualifies him for heroic status in the Democrat party’s pantheon.
Crossposted at American Thinker
Category: John Kerry, Media, Politics
Never liked him. And still don’t face looks like a Cal-Condor
Way to go.
Ahem….Mr Kerry….
He is, and always will be, an asshat of the first degree.
I read an article yesterday that indicated what Trump actually said isn’t what got reported, and if true, the media is doing its usual best to trash a candidate they don’t like.
And as far as Kerry is concerned…Why can’t someone get his military records with an FOIA? Is there some kind of restriction that prevents his military record being accessed like others can be?
Here’s the link to the article I saw yesterday:
https://sharylattkisson.com/fact-check-the-washington-post-on-donald-trump-and-john-mccain/
One can get substantial information from Kerry’s – or any vet’s – records with a FOIA, PN. However, what’s releasable without the individual’s consent is limited. I detail the items that are fully public record info in this previous article
Unfortunately, the full military record is only releasable with the consent of the vet (or their next of kin, if deceased). And with Kerry, therein lies the rub.
Specifically, the type of discharge, any discharge upgrades, most disciplinary actions short of court-martial, and paperwork related to same, are NOT among those items releasable without the vet’s consent. Many such items will indeed be in a vets military personnel records if they exist – along with many other admin documents like evals. But getting those requires the consent of the individual concerned.
As Poetrooper notes, in spite of repeated promises, Kerry’s never given the consent for public release of his full military record. All he’s ever done is to allow 3 friendly reporters a one-time look at his official records, back in 2005.
This is great website for those interested.
http://www.wintersoldier.com/index.php
Thanks for explaining that. I always wondered why there was such a mystery about his records.
If military records are only available with a person’s consent, then how are the records we have seen on this site over the years complete? I can’t imagine anyone who is accused of lying about their service or their medals would consent to allow people to search said records.
Now if someone didn’t serve at all, that’s one thing but many on this site have served but sought to embellish. Forgive me if I missed something. Please explain to a non-vet and a reporter why Kerry’s records aren’t fully available because he will not consent to release but others who were in the service, theirs are.
Andy Kravetz, reporter
Peoria (Ill.) Journal Star
akravetz@pjstar.com
Andy,
See Hondo’s reply above. A FOIA request will get you the meat and potatoes of someone’s service.
Dates of service, training and awards, as well as assignments.
Andy: the full, unexpurgated record is not available w/o the individual’s consent (or that of his/her NOK, if deceased). However, as JaOD observed, substantial info about EVERY vet’s military service is public record and available to all on request. That’s usually more than enough to prove/disprove allegations of stolen valor.
The article I linked above lists the items that are public record and are available to all on request.
Hondo, if Kerry did get an “Other Than” discharge that was later converted to an “Honorable”, there would likely be a letter from SECNAV or some other high poobah so indicating, would there not? And the original discharge information would be there as well unless Carter or SECNAV ordered it purged. It’s such an unusual situation that we really have no precedents with which to operate.
Another issue for Kerry would be his medical records which possibly could throw some less than heroic light on those Purple Hearts.
When you think about it, Kerry was just like the typical SV fraud exposed here daily in that he simply assumed that no one would question his claims and was caught with his pants down when the Swift boat vets did precisely that.
Andy, it’s good to see reporters following us here. You guys are the ones who best can expose these turkeys.
The same type of letter would IMO be there if he were involuntarily separated due to 2x nonselection for O4. See my comment below.
I’d love to think that Nixon “hammered” him for his stunt in Paris by ordering his dismissal (which he had the authority to do) from the USNR, and that his records would show such. But I’m forced to conclude that very likely didn’t happen.
Guess we’ll just have to stay alive for the next 25 years to find out. At 62 years after discharge – or in 2040 – the individual’s full OPMF becomes archival and a matter of public record.
Hondo so what you are saying mr Hondo is we will have to wait until the Chinese of the Russians Hack in to to system to find out the truth… LMAO ! ! ! ! 🙂
That, or until 62 years after last military service. At that point, the records go archival and become public.
I’ll bet Snowden has a copy
Yes,of course, now I remember. The three one-time reporters allowed a one-time peek were as follows:
Ray Charles
Little Stevie Wonder
Blind Melon Chitlin
That last one ought to wake up a couple of you!
Blind Melon Chitlin? Now where have I heard of him before? Oh, Yeah:
Wasn’t he that old boy who was so old that he shits dust and farts rust?
Claw: not knowing your age, B. M. Chitlin might have been before your time. Think old Cheech and Chong.
“Goin’ downtown, gonna see my gal . . .” (smile)
Another one of Blind Melon Chitlin’s classics
Nixon wanted to try the phony for treason if he stayed in office! Just goes to show, one phony can spot another lol
Seriously that Trump article is so much bull. Watch the video for yourself. It is very clear both in words and tone what Trump was saying. The fact that your source left out the “i prefer people who don’t get captured” line is very telling, as is the fact that she is one of vaccine conspiracy whack jobs.
I have not really weighed in on Trump putting his foot in his mouth regarding John McCain… but. When he says, “I prefer people who don’t get captured”, how is that different to saying, “I prefer people who don’t get killed.” Or how about, “I prefer people who don’t get injured.” Or maybe, “I prefer people who do not get their limbs blown off.”?
His asinine comment seems logically indefensible to me. IMHO, you wear the uniform, you do your duty and carry your own weight, you ARE a hero… end of story. All gave some, some gave all.
I prefer my presidential candidates that know their monster comb-over looks like shit. Go away Donald. Your fired.
Seriously how could anybody write, or believe an article suggesting he wasn’t talking shit, if they have seen the tape? I am not exactly the biggest McCain fan, but shit that is some off limits stuff right there. Trump is the 2nd biggest threat to the republican party, 2nd only to people dumb enough to want him to be their nominee
DRC is slways accepting new applicants. Lawsuit may still be a possibility! Paging Dan Bernath.
A few points….. who gives a shit what CNN says about anything? Who here watches CNN – except in the Sun Tzu-ian sense in order to “know your enemy”? Exactly. The only folks who do are Apparatchiks working and living in D.C and its suburbs, “Manhattanites”(that’s code for- well, you know), and Bourgeois Socialist urbanites in Atlanta, Baltimore, Chicago, etc. 100, 000 at a time. Out of a population of 350,000,000-ish. Nothing. And who cares a rat’s ass what these idiots say about the Uber-Idiot Mr. Heinz? Exactly. And as for Trump and McCain…..Whatever. At least Trump is being nasty to the assholes in the Media. Good stuff. As for McCain: a Vietnam War Hero. Yes. POW, “guest” in the Hanoi Hilton, where he continued to serve his country honourably and well. Check. NOW, a Washington Big-Government fixture, supporter of open borders, amnesty, etc. A man who refused to fight like a man against Obama in ’08. Disgraceful. Couldn’t care less what nasty things Trump says about him. Its not what you WERE, its what you ARE. And McCain is currently a disgrace to himself, his legacy, and his country. That’s about it.
Max, I wouldn’t have known about it except for the fact that some friend sent my wife an email bitching about it. I am now nor ever have been a watcher of that crapass network.
i have to agree with Max on the “knowing your enemy” statement. I watch CNN once in a while to see what they are up to. For a laugh I’ll even flip over to MSNBC sometimes.
BUT,, Bill Maher pisses me off so bad that I have to avoid his show. If I flip a cross his show while it’s on, my dogs leave skid marks on the floor getting away from me for fear of feeling the rath set forth from hearing Maher’s BS.
I don’t think anyone chooses to watch CNN or MSNBC. Instead they are simply selected for waiting areas like hospitals. Libtards don’t even watch those stations because they have to be perpetually outraged about everything and you can’t do that when you’re watching a delusional echo chamber.
Hospitals, doctor’s and dentist’s offices, McDonald’s and airports all subject those confined inside to CNN.
McCain is the definition of a political hack. My Grandfather served in Korea, and was shot down and served as a POW. He commanded an F4 squadron in Vietnam. I grew up listening him spew hate about John McCain and his service in Vietnam and his detainment in Hanoi. The old man had friends who ended up at the Hilton, he never hesitated to throw the stories at us when McCain showed up on TV.
Clown. (H/T GT)
So tell me, has no one filed a FOIA on ol’ Horsehead? I don’t care if he is a “public figure”, the sould not be sitting on them. Or are the records just not there?
No characterization of discharge available via FOIA I think.
Correct. See my reply above to Pinto Nag.
I don’t watch TV news but I blocked CNN, MSNBC, and Al Jazeera so that no one in my household accidentally watches them. Yeah, that’s right, I’m the king of my castle.
(when my wife says it’s okay)
ME TOO! (When my wife says so)
Your wives actually let you???
Lucky bastards…
Yeah. How do they get them to do that?
i just assumed it was because my wife understood how lucky she is and didn’t want to rock the boat.
You’ll have to excuse me now. I need to get away from the electronics before lightning strikes my immediate vicinity.
Kerry is a cowardly two hole licker and always has been. He’s also a traitor in my book. CNN…screw them and I hope to see their ratings swirling down the toilet along with all their turd commentators. Wonder who will hire Wolf Blitzer? Maybe…PBS.
I remember the SNL skit with W and Kerry swapping wives. Kerry wanted to show his scrap book from vietnam, and when asked why it was only 2 pages “I was only there 3 months”. Oh, this is a nice picture, ” that was a wore house I visited on leave”
One serious factual error in the news article about Squarehead requesting and getting his medals reissued…
“But when a dishonorable discharge is issued, all pay benefits, and allowances, and all medals and honors are revoked as well.”
Medals are never “revoked”… the single exception being the Presidential Guard Badge.
Cock-Jaw needed to get the medals to put on the wall after he was elected into office. He threw the originals away in a protest.
The full disclosure of his records would include his original discharge and documentation, as well as his (probably less the stellar) fitness reports.
Just an Old Dog: ‘fraid that’s not the case. From SECNAVINS 1650.1H (2006):
The applicable Army Reg says much the same.
Believe it came out years back that the “medals he threw over the fence” belonged to someone else
Correct.
Though I’m not defending Kerry, I do have to take exception with the Lipscomb and Lively articles posted above by Poetrooper. They are IMO not accurate. After careful consideration, I do not think he ever received a “bad” discharge. Both Reserve and Active Component officers serve in general without defined separation dates. In particular, Reserve officers are NOT automatically discharged on completing their military service obligation; for discharge, they have to resign their reserve commissions. Otherwise, if not assigned to a reserve unit they typically are assigned to the IRR – and remain on the rolls. However, even in the Reserve components there are “up or out” policies for officers. Specifically, a reserve O3 2x failing selection for O4 is almost always discharged involuntarily. And for officer promotions, the promotion board that considers officers’ records for selection/nonselection is indeed a “board of officers”. Promotion nonselection by such a board for the second time would appear to qualify as a recommendation by a board of officers for involuntary separation. Federal law in general mandates that reserve officers who are 2x nonselects for O4 are to be separated NLT the 1st day of the 7th month following their second nonselection for promotion. In short, both Lipscomb and Lively are IMO wrong. The “board of officer” consideration may well refer to 2x nonselection by a promo board vice a discharge upgrade board. The timing indicates that’s very likely what happened to Kerry. He’d have been considered for promotion to O4 the 1st time somewhere around 1975 or 1976 (probably the latter, with the post-Vietnam drawdown and accompanying slowdown in promotions), and the 2nd time in 1977. Promotion boards often meet during the spring and/or summer, with results not approved for some months. Assuming his 2nd board met in the spring and the list took 3 months to be approved, that’s July or Aug. That’s quite consistent with a release from active duty in early 1978 for 2x nonselect to O4. While I’d love to think Nixon cashiered him for his shenanigans in Paris in the early 1970s (the POTUS has the authority to… Read more »
Hell they admitted Ted Kennedy!
Before Chappaquiddick, as I recall. And Ted Kennedy did have an honorable discharge from the Army.
True, admitted to the bar in 1959. Before he killed Mary Jo, but after he got kicked out of Harvard for cheating, which was the cause of his enlistment.
Yep. That’s why he went to law school at UVA instead of Harvard – the latter wouldn’t readmit him, if I recall correctly.
And Ted Bundy!
Hondo, that would all make sense except for this from the Lipscomb article:
“The “board of officers” review reported in the Claytor document is even more extraordinary because it came about “by direction of the President.” No normal honorable discharge requires the direction of the president. The president at that time was James Carter. This adds another twist to the story of Mr. Kerry’s hidden military records.”
Also, can you imagine the apoplexy of the Chief of Naval Operations upon being informed that a junior reserve officer was in Paris in 1970 talking with the enemy that his Navy was currently engaging in combat? You are saying the Navy would allow him continue to serve in ANY capacity and review him for promotion six or seven years later?
I’d like our Navy component here at TAH to weigh in on that.
Pretty sure that the “By direction of the President” language is standard boilerplate language. I think it was used on all invol Naval officer separations due to board action – which includes RIFs and 2x promo nonselects.
Remember: Reserve officers of that era were appointed by and served “at the pleasure of the President”. ANY action discharging a Reserve officer was technically done under Presidential authority – or, if you prefer, “by direction of the President”.
Pretty sure the bad discharge you’re looking for it didn’t happen, PT. Occam’s Razor et al. (smile)
Agreed on no “Bad Discharge” but involuntary separation based on conduct unbecoming? That seems to me to be more of an Occam’s Razor explanation.
Hondo, he’s hiding something more than what has already been disclosed by the Swifties or he’d have filed that lawsuit long ago. But something in those records is so damaging that he couldn’t expose them in any attempt to vindicate himself AND win all that money, which he didn’t need but would severely punish his avowed enemies.
Moreover, he wouldn’t or couldn’t release his records when doing so might have won the presidency for him. As I recall there were Democrats urging him to do so as well as file suit for defamation. That is where the bad discharge suspicions originated because it was about the only thing “bad” enough to make him refuse to disclose those records.
For a presidential candidate, anything other than an honorable discharge would probably be a campaign killer. And Jimmy Carter, if he was in fact Kerry’s savior, had become a very unpopular ex-pres by 2004.
I have a final question. Can you imagine any other officer doing what Kerry did without being involuntarily separated?
Hell, PT: we’ve seen a guy manage to retire from the Reserve components as a freaking LTC who was a self-admitted polygamist who went public after getting fired from his LEO job.. He did that crap reasonably early in his career, too: 20+ years before he retired. And after getting fired, he had the audacity to sue the state of Utah in Federal court regarding losing his job as an LEO – and lost. http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=35749 Of course I can imagine Kerry getting away with what he did. He was no longer serving on active duty, and what he did in Paris didn’t really come to light until 1971. By then he was nearly done with his MSO, and had become a public figure. I’m guessing the USNR – if anyone in USNR personnel even noticed Kerry was still a non-drilling USNR officer not assigned to any USNR unit – probably said, “Screw it; he’s gone soon, and he’s a public figure. It’s not worth the effort to go after him.” So they ignored him. My guess is they never even caught the fact that he was still a USNR officer. He wasn’t drilling, and they had literally thousands of IRR and other non-drilling records to worry about while the Navy was getting somewhat smaller as Vietnam drew down. After his MSO was complete in 1972, I’d further guess that Kerry never got around to resigning his commission – if he even realized he had to do that. My guess is he was so clueless in the matter that he though he’d be automatically discharged from the USNR, and only found out he was still technically in the USNR when he got notified in 1978 that he was being honorably discharged. Maybe I’m wrong. But I suspect there’s something else in his file he doesn’t want people to see instead. My guess is something to do with one of his Vietnam decorations. I’ve heard that one of his Purple Hearts was initially rejected by his CO, then pushed (by Kerry) through “alternate channels” to get it approved. If that’s in his… Read more »
In 1971 there was no internet so the great majority of people would not know about Kerry. Most communication was done via typewritten letter – I typed a lot of them. This “public eye” thing is different today.
Have you seen Barack’s college transcripts, Hondo? See? Even in this age of the Internet, when it comes to presidential level politics, there’s all sorts of cover-up that can be accomplished if there is enough money to do it.
Kerry-money???
Kerry played the Navy and Vietnam War very cleverly to provide him a war hero springboard into politics and you think a schemer like that left his separation from service just sort of dangling out there, a loose thread that could be pulled by a future opponent?
Sorry, but while I think John Kerry is a worthless fucking traitor who should be hanged or shot, I do not think the man is stupid. Despite all our animosity, he’s done very well for himself. For crying out loud, he schemed himself one election away from the presidency and only missed it by a small margin. You don’t do that without a constant eye towards the details.
Clueless doesn’t necessarily imply stupid, PT. It merely means unaware. Many people are unaware that officers don’t serve for a fixed term and must resign their commission to leave the service, including Reserve officers. I’m saying Kerry was in that group. He obviously didn’t much care about “playing by the rules” during his military career other than to use them to game the system.
My take on Kerry is that he’s an attractive, glib (with a prepared speech), and persuasive opportunist that’s managed to be at the right place at the right time – or have the right friends – most of his life. His marriage to his current wife is an example. Ditto his appointment as SECSTATE.
Kinda reminds me of a couple of other recent POTUSes, actually.
Kerry’s ASVAB scores – which he inadvertently released during the 2004 campaign – clearly show that he’s only somewhat above average intelligence. George W. Bush appears to have been actually substantially more intelligent – best estimate I’ve seen was about 10 IQ points. But Kerry had one advantage – he had better verbal skills, per his ASVAB scores.
Politicians live and die by shoveling BS. So that made up for many of Kerry’s other intellectual shortcomings.
Great article. I’m sharing with one of my local radio talk show hosts back in my hometown. Still too many people out there that don’t understand the depths of scumery that this guy stooped to while in uniform.
In 2004 I was able to participate in The Kerry Lied rally in DC.
I was privileged to meet and talk with men who had served with sKerry. Some became longtime friends.
That he has been able to rise to any sort of prominence in our government continues to cause me a kind of physical pain.
The way to solve this is to ask John Forbes Kerry on national TV: “Does the statement “You, John Forbes Kerry did not receive an honorable discharge from the US Navy.” meet the legal definition of being a defamatory statement?”
If he answers “Yes”, then you say “You, John Forbes Kerry did not receive an honorable discharge from the US Navy.” And you say “Please sue me for defamation now.” The result of which his records would have to be produced.
If he answers “No”, well ….
Problem solved.
GDC. I am suprised at you. You know the drill. He will respond:
“I will not dignify that question with a response and I personally resent your asking it!” [APPLAUSE]
Darn you 2/17… there ya go interjecting reality again. What if we could get Diane Rehm to do it? She asked Bernie Sanders if it was true that he is an Israeli citizen LOL. All we would have to do is hack her teleprompter. I think getting Lurch to sit down to an unscripted interview is going to be the hard part. But I can dream!
Sorry GDC. You know how some guys are said to be all crusty on the outside and soft on the inside? Well, I’m all crust. Seriously, when I walk I leave a trail of crumbs.
… and as Secretary of State it is beneath my dignity to address your question …
Problem is – there is damn little beneath his dignity. That is what seems to escape most people who donate a few moments to think about Mr. Kerry.
And it would begin an entirely new period for the statutes of limitations which long ago expired for the Swifties.
Good thinking Contractor.
…but…but…but…he has the hat. To this day, he has the hat!
(You know, the one given to him by the CIA operative who was with him when he spent Christmas Eve, 1968 inside Cambodia, listening to President Nixon giving a speech on the radio.)
And, he was there on the orders of President Nixon. It’s seared into his memory.