Recruiters’ lives matter
I’ve been telling anyone who would listen to me that I expected a major terrorist attack in the coming weeks. It’s just a feeling that I have, because the national conversation about terrorism has been so muted by conversations about our differences, rather than our similarities. We are divided against ourselves and this is a prime time for a major attack.
This blog has advocated for the arming of military folks when they’re on the job since 2009 when Nidal Hasan, an Army major, murdered and wounded a number of soldiers at Fort Hood during his own personal jihad. A few months before that, Carlos Bledsoe, a recent convert to Islam who had trained in Yemen with al Qaeda, murdered Private William Long and wounded Private Quinton Ezeagwula while they were at work at a recruiting station in Little Rock. Soon after that, Nidal Abdo, an Army deserter, was arrested for plotting to attack soldiers at Fort Hood. French soldiers have been murdered by jihadists in Toulouse, France, British soldiers have been murdered in the streets of that country. Canadian service members died in that country at the hands of Islamic extremists.
Clearly, the war against Islamic extremism has followed the troops home, and the troops are completely unprepared for this new war. While they’re being warned to lower their social media profiles on the internet, the Office of Personnel Management is turning over their personal information to a foreign entity and I’m not completely convinced that the Chinese are the intended end-user of that information. And, oh, by the way, someone in the National Guard Bureau, released the personal information of every Guardsman who has served since 2004.
The President yesterday called the attack on Marines “heartbreaking” which is pretty much an understatement. The fact that American service members are being killed while they are at work in their country, in their communities and they have no way to defend themselves and their workmates is criminal negligence.
The Clinton-era administrative rule that prevents service members from arming themselves on military installations is an antiquated rule, a pre-9-11 rule. It’s outdated and nonsensical. As nonsensical as not allowing the troops to have loaded weapons by their side three years ago when they were being killed by those “green-on-blue” terrorists in Afghanistan. The Department of Defense came to their senses back then, it’s time for them to lobby the President for common sense to intervene in this instance as well.
Yesterday only confirms that because we weren’t willing to fight terrorists over there, the terrorists are more than willing to fight our troops here – it’s time to arm ourselves against this new tactic. It is no longer a strictly law-enforcement problem, it’s a national security issue. Law enforcement, especially in this case, is unable to prevent a lone gun man who keeps his mouth shut from committing attacks like we saw yesterday.
By the way, Jim Hansen, recently known as “Uncle Jimbo” from Blackfive, was on Fox News talking about the same thing this morning;
Category: Terror War
Yeah, I bet President Obama is just grief stricken right now.
So grief stricken that he released a statement praising Pisslam and about the end of Ramadan before anything about our service members being murdered.
And then he went to play golf.
President Obama has been under a great of strain lately. I would suggest that our Commander-In-Chief take some time off and tour the Mediterranean, especially the French Riviera. Beautiful this time of year. Sunny, hot and dry. Temperatures in the mid 80s. Plenty of golf courses, too.
http://www.frenchriviera-tourism.com/golf/
correction: a great DEAL of strain
Only because he four-putted on the 15th.
Jonn, I have to semi-disagree with you. It is time for these United States of America to show some leadership from the front not the rear. It is time to kick some ass and put an end to this bullshit. Having said that, I plan to carry tonight when we go to the Trump dinner in Hot Springs. One immigrant group plans to protest and the escaped drug lord threatened to kill Trump. No sense in being an unarmed target if something goes down.
They will disarm you, you know……..
Nothing will change; our personnel in recruiting offices and reserve centers/armories and other facilities will be left defenseless as before the attacks as they will be after the attacks. I have lost all faith in the Pentagon doing anything to protect our personnel; as for obamao and his gang, I never had any faith in them whatsoever to begin with…
One thing I want to add, Jonn; can we finally get rid of this PC bullshit? When we want to keep tabs on the Italian/Sicilian mafia; we don’t start frisking people named Johnson and we don’t watch who goes in and out of Taco Loco. We profile. When they want to keep tabs on the IRA, they don’t follow Norquist around. These are muslims, start tracking muslims. It’s not racist, or bigotry; it’s common fricken sense.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
He said “common sense” in relation to Gooberment policies.
Ain’t gonna happen. Not for a loooong time, if ever.
Lock this boy up in the psycho ward, right alongside Dinesh D’Sousa.
(first half, fact. second half, /sarc)
But, but, but, they might be offended. /s/
Might be offended? I don’t give a fuck.
Behold, the field in which I grow my fucks.
Gaze upon it and see that it is barren.
THAT’S piss your pants funny!
I do beg, on bended knee, to borrow that from you.
Use it all you wish!
I, too, wish to borrow that.
I am busting a seam laughing.!
I can just see that line being delivered, with great seriousness and dignity, to some PV2 saying “But Sarge! I had plans for the weekend!”
I may frame these three comments.
Re the below – Claymore, please make sure the family knows of the prayers being offered and thoughts on their behalf.
How the Times have changed.
FLW in the late eighties.
Had more ord under my bed and in my pickup truck than the arms room.
To CO’s angst.
Loaded but not locked.
Weekends were camping free fire zones.
Good times.
The family changed its TTP a while ago. Until recently, it was realitivly easy to identify us as a military family. When the alerts came out about military families being targeted, I started carrying concealed, and the wife started the process to get her CCW permit. Now one or both of us are carrying. As a matter of fact, I’m at Jr’s swim team practice now with a handgun and none of the swim team moms have any idea. I’m not saying that if some kid pulled up with an M4 and opened up that I’d have the drop in him, but I’m in a better position than those recruiters. At this point, it all our responsibilities to start carrying.
My Commander size 1911 is in service, my wife insists on it. And that’s all I’ve got to say about that.
The wife and I don’t even talk about carrying anymore because we both know that we both are. The only time it is mentioned is when we have to go to my kids school and we have to remind each other that we cant carry there.
Can’t carry there?
And just WHO in the name of unholy fuck is going to stop you and frisk you?
A “gun free” death zone is the place where you want to carry most.
ANYTIME I’m outside of my workplace, chances are VERY high that I’m carrying concealed, either .357 magnum or .45ACP (My beloved M1911). Methinks it’s MUCH better to be judged by twelve than carried by six, and I gave the much-beloved Mrs. Proud infidel®™ a nice .380ACP with Crimson Trace®™ Lasergrips for her birthday! She prefers to carry that, and other stories I’ve read say that “that red dot” goes a long way in taking the fight out of a would-be perpetrator.
The youngest Marine killed was my neighbor’s son. Please keep the Wells family in your prayers as they try to work through this.
Awe shit. Absolutely, Claymore.
I am so sorry to hear that Claymore. My condolences to them.
Jonn had a feeling of an impending terrorist attack and I had a sickly feeling that one of us would personally know one of the Marines killed. I don’t know why this time I thought that, but I did. And it was Claymore. I will certainly say additional prayers for the Wells Family.
He went to Sprayberry High School just up the road from the house. He’s was in band. He was active in his church. This is basically my son, just slightly older. Hitting me pretty hard for his family. Having a tough time understanding, but I don’t want this to be about me…please focus on SKip and his family. Thanks everyone.
You know, Claymore, from time to time when Hondo reports the identity and repatriation of former MIAs, I try to learn something about each, to let others know something more about the background of the Fallen. Whether anyone reads those write-ups, I can’t say, but it requires me to stop and think about each man as someone who was known and loved by others. All this is to suggest that, when the time is right, please consider a separate posting here dedicated to Skip. To paraphrase what one of the MIA families wrote on a memorial to their son in the 1940s, a son who fell at Tarawa, the measure of a life is taken by deeds, not years.
Claymore, my condolences to the family and you.
I know your name. I thought you were a nut during my investigation into John “Gundog” Woodward. CLAYMORE AS IN BOMB..so I contacted our Mary. Oh, he’s real. What happened to SKIP? Am I missing posts? So you fellas know, many of your names are on the trust list. I’m adding the rest of you.
Claymore,
I’m sorry very sorry for your loss…because it is your loss too. Here, let it be about you so you can be there for the family…for all of us.
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/who-was-the-cobb-marine-killed-in-chattanooga/nm2Qx/
At the appropriate time, please let the family know that prayers are coming for them from all over the world. (Please define “family” in the most generous sense there, Claymore.)
Prayers continue for all the families, of course, because each of the families need us to support them in every way that we can.
Indeed, prayers from this family to all of the families, Claymore.
Prayers sent and all my best thoughts and wishes for all the families affected by this tragedy.
Damn. I will. Damn that freak to hell and back.
My thoughts and prayers go out to the young Marine and his family, as well as yourself.
Claymore, please assure your neighbors that their son is and always will be in my memory and that they are in my prayers for God’s peace and comfort in their grief and sorrow. I add this as well for all of those killed.
Peace be to them, and GOD Bless, Claymore. DITTO for the all the other families that lost their beloved Warriors.
And what are the talking heads and politicians blabbering about? Yep, more “gun control” because that is the frickin answer to EVERYthing. sigh. Kimber on my hip, XDS backup in my pocket.
Of course they are, because that’s the only arrow they have in their quiver. Ask them how that is working for the illegal drug problem? Oh, they want to “legalize” all drugs, that way it won’t be illegal? Ask them if they want to solve the gun problem the same way?
See what I did there?
Jonn what “Clinton era rule” are you talking about? Weapons have been banned on military installations for as long as I can remember and I came in under Carter. I’m pretty sure that any ban on weapons goes back to at least the 1980’s. I know when I was at Fort Benning in 80-81 soldiers who didn’t live in family housing had to have their weapons either off-post or in the company arms room and that’s why when I bought a rifle I kept it off post.
And I’ve never been aware of a time when soldiers were allowed to conceal-carry firearms unless their specific duty required them to do so.
I dislike Clinton as much as anyone else here but calling this a “Clinton-era” rule is misleading and incorrect.
The only place I ever saw guns in the 1960s was at the Bolling AFB shooting range, which was open to everyone based at Bolling or NPC.
@ EX-PH2:
“Guns”?
“GUNS”?
It may have been a local post requirement.
FLW I kept my own vaults in th BOQ.
And carried all over post.
Looking back it may have been my own version of DADT.
I wasn’t an officer but IIRC the BOQ was essentially an apartment complex and for purposes of storing weapons, was treated the same as family housing. Enlisted personnel like me were theoretically required to register our firearms with the Provost Marshall and store our Privately owned firearms in the Company arms room where they would be entered into the official inventory. If we wanted to get them out on weekends to go shooting we were supposed to put in a request through the 1sg who then would detail an armorer to open the arms room (which required notifying the staff duty, a call to the MP station, etc.) It was a total PITA and that’s why AFAIK nobody did it (nobody that I knew anyway.) Some ran the risk of UCMJ by keeping their firearms in the barracks or in their cars, others simply had a buddy who lived off post keep them at the off-post residence. My solution was a variation of the above: Every military installation is surrounded by “self storage” facilities. When I got to my first duty station, my first stop, before I even reported in, was to a self storage site where I rented a storage unit and stored my guns and ammo there. This worked fine in CONUS and when I was in Germany and Korea my solution was even simpler: The guns stayed with my brother in the US and I got them when I returned to CONUS. It should probably be pointed out that in the pre-gun control hysteria, Pre-OKC bombing, Pre-Fort Hood and pre-9/11 days, regulations regarding firearms were generally winked at by a lot of commanders. Technically I was breaking regs every time I entered Fort Bragg or Fort Lewis with weapons in my car headed to the shooting range (I was out of reg because post regs required that any firearm that was to be transported on post had to be registered with the PMO.) Lewis was a “closed post” which meant you had to stop at the gate and have a post registration sticker or an ID card,… Read more »
I had a PITA politician of a 1SG when I was stationed on Ft. Benning who ordered me to leave my personal firearms at home when I went on leave one year. Instead of that, I “sold” them to a good trustworthy friend who lived off-post for $1 apiece, he was a die-hard firearms aficionado as I am, and everything worked out fine, he “sold” them back to me for a bottle of rum at my unofficial ETS Party, everything worked out fine, sometimes one has to say “FUCK THE SYSTEM!!!”
I still had to register them with the PM. Filed out little index cards. Still have my copies to this day. Handy for inventory.
The HHC CO CDR (I was the S2) was a nervous fellow and kept telling me how he wished he could offer me to keep them in the vault.
Snopes to the rescue. Interesting reading – a couple of good links also.
http://www.snopes.com/Politics/clintons/baseguns.asp
Thanks, nbcguy54ACTUAL, I was away from the computer for a spell and couldn’t answer.
Jonn – wish we COULD blame Clinton…. I’m sure there’s something else that’s his fault in regards to this mess that we can hang on him (like NOT taking out OBL way back when we had the chance).
When I came back from Viet Nam, I was stationed at Hunter Liggett Military Reservation (which today is Fort Hunter Liggett), assigned to Instrumentation Company, Combat Developments Experimentation Command (CDEC).
One of the guys in our barracks wore a revolver, because he was a police officer in King City, California.
I don’t remember his name, but I think I remember him being the guy who was in charge of our Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape course.
Anyway, somebody in the chain of command made some waves, and he was forbidden to wear his pistol in the barracks.
Does anybody here remember CDEC?
Or Hunter Liggett Military Reservation?
Or Miller’s Ranch?
Or the experimental “Cheyenne” helicopter gunship prototype?
Or Jolon?
Or the cowboys branding calves?
Or Los Padres National Forest?
Or that herd of wild burros?
Or Camp Roberts?
Or Fort Ord?
Fort Ord was our headquarters, but it’s been closed for years.
I don’t know if CDEC still exists.
After returning from Viet Nam, when I first arrived at Miller’s Ranch on Hunter Liggett Military Reservation, I hated it, and immediately volunteered for Korea.
But, as time went on, I grew to love being in California, for I spent a whole weekend at DISNEYLAND (!), learned to drive a car, got my California driver’s license, bought my first car, and had a girlfriend!
Life was goooooood!
But then, just when everything was perfect, I got my orders shipping me back to the Far East, to the Republic of Korea, the Land of the Morning Calm, where I was actually hoping a war would start, as I hadn’t yet gotten over being in the old Republic of Viet Nam.
Here’s something that might help slingshot the conversation a little further.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/allow-military-personnel-well-military-veterans-conceal-carry-military-bases-accordance-local-laws
I NEVER sign online petitions.
Did this one.
Along with F’N Boot one.
I signed up about half hour ago. Petition needs over 95K signatures by 15 August. Only about 5,100 right now. Let’s go people! Sign up!
Like H1, I NEVER sign online petitions (well, almost never) but my wife and I signed this one. I also sent a heads up to a buddy out in Guam who has the damnedest email list I’ve ever seen. He’s a retired AF E-8 but he swaps stuff with admirals and generals all the time. I also sent it to a retired Army friend in Texas who also has a helluva email list.
Thank you Flagwaver. I added my signature.
I definitely signed, and will pass it on!
Outside of the gun debate, there were things that could have been done that might have saved some lives in this instance. That recruiters office didn’t have the protection of a local Walgreen’s pharmacy. Get rid of the glass wall, or put in protective glass. Narrow access to the main office area. Put in a “holding area,” an atrium that can be observed by camera before personal contact is made. That open store front office is just turning our recruiters into fish in a barrel.
Prayers out once again to the families. I wonder how many times B. Hussein 0bama has called for us not to jump to cnclusions about muslims while he and his ilk want to infringe as much as they can on OUR 2nd Amendment rights? Nuthatch muslims are only one reason I carry these days, druggies are another.
I remember (as I wonder if some of the older guys on this site do) of serving the first part of my Army career during the Carter administration. I remember pulling guard duty armed with a freaking mallet handle. Yes America sleep safe. No way will the Soviets attack, our guys are armed with sticks.
Guarded a temporary ammo dump armed with an axe handle.
Guarded and empty warehouse with an M-16 and one 20 round magazine of ammunition….this was in 1978…in New Jersey…
Makes sense, you guarded live ammo with a stick I guarded an empty building with live ammo…
In the 1980’s when the Army was supposedly worried about left wing terrorist groups in Europe, we guarded the back gate of Hindenburg Kaserne in Ansbach with unloaded M-16s. We weren’t even allowed to have a loaded mag with us, just an empty mag in the rifle held at sling arms. Stuff a couple socks in your ammo pouches to make them look full, that’ll keep the commies away! 😀
That’s about as useful as having rubber duck M16.
Pulled Guard Duty once with an M16 and a full magazine full of ammo. The catch? No bolt. We were to show the magazine to those who thought we were unarmed….
Locking and loading could have been interesting.
Guarded a heliport. From what? Buffalo, I think.
When the Red Army factions were active, they increased the guard presence at the kaserne motor pools. We had little billy sticks a foot long. Later as an NCO, as long as we had our guns registered with the Provost Marshall’s office we could retain our privately owned weapons in married quarters, both on-post quarters or out on the German economy.
Deployed to Iraq/Sadr City in 2008 with an M16A4 that was single shot. Might as well have been a mallet
Some cities have put police officers outside military recruiting centers. Boston and Chicago are two of them.
http://www.wcvb.com/news/precautions-taken-at-local-recruiting-offices-after-tenn-shooting/34210082
and this: http://wn.ktvu.com/story/29569447/chicago-police-place-officers-at-citys-military-facilities
I’m not sure that it does anything but reinforce the feeling that they ‘did something’.
Governor of Oklahoma has authorized arming AGR OKNG personnel:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/07/17/oklahoma-governor-authorizes-arming-certain-military-personnel-on-military-installations/
Anyone who has fought in any war and keeps tabs on what the hell is going on in our crazy world is PREPARED. I haven’t been in the military but was raised by several people who did serve and we’re prepared for whatever comes our way.
There’s been more attacks in America since 9-11 in small groups but I see it growing.
I was floored that someone posted Obama went golfing after his so sorry it happened. When is he leaving office. That’s too long
We’ve reached the point where US service people working in these “soft” off-post facilities need to covertly arm themselves regardless of current policies, regulations. Yes, yes- it is illegal to have a firearm on federal property. We’ll have that inscribed on your tombstone. It is obvious the islamists are coming after “soft” military targets and DOD will do nothing effective to stop it.
Smaj…Roger That! It’s better to ask forgiveness when you’re still alive, than have your family asking about your burial benefits.
Like the saying goes, “It’s much better to be judged by twelve than to be carried by six.”.
And the first incident of a troopie defending themselves in this manner will be tried in the court of public opinion.
UCMJ be damned.
Government officials have police protection and some number, by entitlement of office or choice, have personal guards. The Supreme Court has its own police force and we all know about the Capitol police, Secret Service, and other little protection services particular to an agency. At the state level, the state police usually guard the gov, lt. gov, and, perhaps, some other folks we simply could not do without. Local police guard mayors and other chief executives and so on. Which ones will be a target, if any? I don’t have a clue. But they are all protected, just in case. Well, as we are all saying here and elsewhere, our uniformed military personnel are targets. Are we to simply hope that the next terrorist bastard drives up to a main gate and announces himself? In a sense, that’s what our “leaders” (spit!) expect, isn’t it? Otherwise, all of the potential targets would be guarded or armed.
Well, I do recall in the 1970s we were told to not wear our uniforms off-base because of protesters. My niece said the same thing after 9/11/01 when she wanted to fly from WDC to home – do not wear uniforms off-base, because there was chatter that military were being targeted.
We were told the same thing in the mid- to late-1980’s in Europe. I disregarded that recommendation and wore my Class A uniform when I went home on leave flying out of Nuremberg and Frankfurt in 1988 and when I PCSd home in 1989. I also wore my class A’s when going home on leave from Fort Lewis in 1990.
Don’t know if it’s still in effect, but for the Army folks, here’s a section from AR 190-14:
2-2. Authority to carry firearms
a. Due to the serious responsibility imposed on persons authorized to bear or use firearms, such persons must be selected with care.
b. Authorization to carry a firearm includes the authority to permit or require the firearm to be loaded. Unless otherwise specified by local policy, authority to carry a loaded firearm will be implied by issuance of ammunition with the firearm.
c. Authorization to carry firearms may be granted to personnel authorized to —
(1) Conduct law enforcement activities including cases or investigations of espionage, sabotage, and other serious crimes in which DA programs, personnel, or property are involved and investigations conducted in hazardous areas or under hazardous circumstances.
(2) Protect classified information, systems, or equipment.
(3) Protect the President of the United States, high ranking Government officials, DOD personnel, or foreign dignitaries.
(4) Protect DOD assets and personnel.
(5) Guard prisoners.
d. DA military and civilian personnel may be authorized to carry firearms for personal protection when the responsible intelligence center identifies a credible and specific threat against DA personnel in that regional area. Firearms will not be issued indiscriminately for that purpose. Before individuals are authorized to carry a firearm for personal protection under this regulation, the authorizing official must evaluate —
(1) The probability of the threat in a particular location.
(2) The adequacy of support by DA or DOD protective personnel.
(3) The adequacy of protection by U.S. or host nation authorities.
(4) The effectiveness of other means to avoid personal attacks.
“Gen. Ray Odierno, chief of staff of the Army, told reporters that arming troops in those offices could cause more problems than it might solve. ‘”I think we have to be careful about over-arming ourselves, and I’m not talking about where you end up attacking each other,”’ Odierno said during a morning breakfast. Instead, he said, it’s more about ‘”accidental discharges and everything else that goes along with having weapons that are loaded that causes injuries.”’ (Fox News Online)
Well, there you go. Absent a kick in the ass from Congress, Ray Ray won’t trust US soldiers with firearms. He also doesn’t like the term “lone wolf” to describe assassins who do the deed alone. He prefers (please, put your drink down NOW)…a “surprise shooter.”
Dear General Ray;
http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/suprise-mother-fucker–3.png
This confirms my comment above. Absolutely nothing will change; our personnel will continue to be defenseless sitting ducks…nothing will change…
A surprise shooter? What does he think this late and not lamented scumbag was? The Fuller Brush salesguy?
I forgot to add ‘motherless bugfucking hagfish-spawned bastard’ to my question. My bad.
Just out of curiosity, are his nuts in bodaprez’s golf bag or moochie’s purse?
A “surprise shooter”? Are you fucking kidding me right now!?!? I had to take a couple minutes, after reading that, to process that much stupid all at once.
Just tell me, for my own assurance – OhDearNo is an actual Army general, right?
I mean, he seems to be the very model of a stump-sucking, incompetent loony-tune who got lucky and should be encouraged to retire, before he does any more damage.
Risk aversion at its worst.
How about asking the service member who’s ass is on the line how they want to correct this discreptory?
Some would opt in and others decline.
Bad guy would not know who was or was not carrying.
And move on to other soft targets.
All these military elites and P C politicians who want one thing for us and another for them, you can kiss my ass.
Wonder how many serious combat veterans have ever used a weapon with malice in mind after leaving the service? Not one chooses to, but most all are prepared.
Oops, better add to that last post. Most all are prepared to defend if need be.
And the second order effects have started.
Whether it is sustainable is questionable.
The optics are outstanding… http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/29572644/hiram-watch