Another Indicator of the VA’s Culture Issues
Jonn wrote an article yesterday discussing how at least some VA employees “don’t get it”. If you still have doubts that the VA has a cultural problem – well, here’s yet another indicator that it does.
One of our regular commenters sent me this photo some time ago. The photo was taken last May at the Compensation and Pension (C&P) office of a VA facility the individual visits periodically.
In case it’s difficult to read, the cartoon’s caption reads, “Hello! How can I not help u“.
As of about a month ago, the photo was still there. I’m guessing it’s probably still there today.
My guess is the cartoon is a somewhat misguided attempt at humor – much like the antics Jonn talked about yesterday. Now, Lord knows I’ve got nothing against humor, even offbeat or dark humor. A humorless place to work is . . . brutal.
But I don’t think this is appropriate for someone whose job involved dealing with the public. Anywhere.
An “honest mistake” involving “poor English skills” IMO isn’t to blame here, either. A person would have to be monumentally stupid to truly not understand the message that cartoon and caption sends.
So . . . that photo IMO indicates a cultural problem. It does so in at least a couple of ways.
First: why would any employee – government or private-sector – serving the public think it’s OK to display that cartoon where the public they’re paid to serve could see it? I mean, really.
Sure, the individual posting such a cartoon – and their coworkers – might “get” the joke. But how about members of the public meeting them for the first time? What are they going to think? Maybe the next person to see them takes it as a joke; maybe not.
And speaking of their coworkers: didn’t any of them think to say anything – either to their coworker, or to their supervisor? Did they all think this was “just fine and dandy”?
Let’s just say this is not exactly my idea of how to make a good first impression on the public you’re paid to serve.
Second – and in my view, more significantly: the cartoon remained displayed in plain view of customers for at least roughly 9 months, and likely longer. That means VA management at the facility is either (1) OK with that cartoon being displayed where it can be seen; (2) completely oblivious to what’s going on at their facility; or (3) are too damn lazy to do their jobs as supervisors.
Any of those conditions being true is IMO a Real Problem – and yes, the capital “R” and “P” here is intentional. It’s one that needs to be fixed, pronto.
No, this really isn’t a “firing offense”. But it’s something that needs to be corrected, as well an indicator of bigger problems. IMO, it’s an indicator the VA’s organizational culture needs some changes.
Seeing stuff like this – and the stuff Jonn wrote about yesterday, and the recent “imprecise statement” from the VA Secretary concerning his military record – makes me think it’s gonna be a while before the VA un-f**ks itself, at least on the admin side. It takes time to fix a bad organizational culture. And doing that generally requires replacing a fair number of the incumbents holding leadership positions, too.
Category: Veterans' Affairs Department
May their car horns suddenly become stuck constantly honking while they’re right behind a group of the biggest and meanest Outlaw Bikers that ever lived.
Good one !
What the hell! I thought they hired a Special Forces Captain/CEO/industry giant to fix this?
I have it on good authority that this type of behavior is due to gerrymandered voting districts and campaign finance.
This is indicative of a larger problem in government. I am an at will employee. My company can terminate me for not performing. Were I working for the government, that would not be the case. The fact that a government employee can work the system and remain employed for years while they try to terminate said employee is absolutely ridiculous. With a lack of accountability comes sloth. As a First Sergeant, I could inspect rooms and tell you who the good platoon sergeants were. Their Marines had squared away rooms. Why? Because that platoon sergeant did his job and held his Marines accountable. Conversly, you could tell by looking at the rooms which platoon sergeants didn’t care. It was relflected in their unit’s rooms. Same thing here on a larger scale. One way to fix it would be to get rid of the federal employee union. The whole concept of public employee unions is absurd. Kind of like a Lance Corporal union. Can you just imagine the negotiations for a contract there? I was a Lance Corporal once, and greatly respect what Lance Corporals do, but like government employees and people everywhere, if not held accountable, will reach their happy place (usually lower than the institutional standard) and mestastisize throughout the organization. Like we see here on a national level. And the VA is not the only federal organization with this problem; just one of the most public.
I wouldn’t go quite so far as saying shitcan their union altogether. It has its place, though that place definitely shouldn’t be exceeded. You’re right in that an at-will employee is motivated to keep their shit together, but there’s also potential for abuse. Without some kind of representation, a bad boss can run you out on a rail with no recourse, discipline you without cause, and generally make your life miserable if they feel like it. Maybe their superiors will review their performance and correct them, or maybe not. A union is *supposed* to provide some checks and balances against the boss being a dick. Where the problem comes in is when the union (as they frequently do) forgets what it’s there for and becomes self-serving. When their staff start driving BMWs and the workplace becomes one where “scabs need not apply.” This is true of private- and public-sector employee unions, with the public-employee unions often adding the twist of trying to make their membership untouchable. I’m a government employee (state-level) and a union member. My department doesn’t really have what you’d call a “union culture.” They print a newsletter and tell us to vote for democrats (as if it was still 1956), and we pretty much ignore them. They do some collective bargaining, and we’re still in top 5 lowest-paid fire departments on the West Coast, despite the fact that they’re bargaining with the same democrat governor they endorsed–take from that what you will (several Republican, Libertarian, and independent candidates were much friendlier towards us, including the front-runner. What are ya gonna do?). Their most recent “big success? A slight salary increase mandated by law to keep up with minimum wage (to be fair, when I was a brand-new pup on the back of the engine my salary WAS about $1.25/hour below minimum wage, also under a democrat governor with a democrat legislature). Their primary purpose for us is representing individual personnel in disciplinary procedures. In that capacity, they’re actually pretty good. They don’t impede necessary discipline while still maintaining the checks and balances. We have a few fat,… Read more »
A government employee can be fired and it’s just like the process for getting the unsatisfactory Marine out of the Military. It takes paperwork and time. A Marine can’t be simply fired on the spot, and it’s the same concept with all government employees. A DOD employee can be relieved of duties until the paperwork goes through, if the action of the employee is severe enough. Of course it takes a supervisor willing to do the paperwork.
First: why would any employee – government or private-sector – serving the public think it’s OK to display that cartoon where the public they’re paid to serve could see it? I mean, really.
In my shop they wouldn’t last out the day they put the sign up. I’ve explained a thousand times that without clients there’s no need for employees. We have slowly been able to weed out the turds and non-hackers, and now we have a customer centric workforce that understands those customers, however annoying they might appear at times, the means to make payments on a house, cars, whatever.
I’m still working on a few of the less intellectually capable employees to explain the concept of profit and how it affects raises and our ability to offset health insurance costs and how waste or reruns take directly from the profit.
I believe of few of those poor souls think we have a money tree in the basement that we can use to pay for any raise or piece of equipment we want…they don’t understand the volume of sales and net profit margins required to keep putting new equipment on the floor that costs millions of dollars per machine. But I remain hopeful.
The interesting thing is that all the veteran hires I make seem to understand that aspect of the business implicitly.
A rather refreshing dose of reality.
I’m headed to the Martinsburg VA today, so I’m expecting hilarity – especially since the last time I called they hung up on me.
Remember when robots were supposed to be the ‘front desk’ part of the work force? No, that didn’t work, either.
I betcha the regular who sent you that is one major throbbing SOB!
Yeah … as of last week it is still there!
VAMC, Comp and Pen Office, 23rd Street, New York City.
The photo is included is several correspondances to Congress.
BTW … it has been in the same place since at least 21 MAY 2014.
I can say my experience with the VA in Syracuse is actually darn good. TRICARE is a bag of shit to deal with, they seem to auto-deny any claim first, then make my doc work to justify it.
Sometimes you’ve gotta be an SOB though, otherwise people don’t understand where you are coming from.
Word.
Sometimes direct action is called for. Wait until the offending party is away from the desk, and either leave the cartoon where it is with a big “F*ck You Very Much” written across it in red Sharpie, or simply shitcan the cartoon.
What ???
I am really torn on this topic. I have seen it from both sides and, right now, I am working a telephone support line. I identify with both my customers and my company. I think that my customers paid for support and they damn well deserve it so my company should make sure that adequate resources are available to help. My company has to make a profit or they go out of business. If the company fails because we spend too much money on support, I don’t get paid and that support that we promised our customers won’t happen. So the company cannot spend infinite resources to meet support center demands. So right this moment, I have Dilbert cartoons about stupid development processes and stupid client support people on my desk. For many years I was 3rd line support or development and I did client support. This is not a new problem. I recall a specific case in 1990. The help desk was overwhelmed with calls. It was 7 pm, 2 hours after go home time, and we were still on the job. The phone rang, one of the help desk people picked up the phone, said something very rude to the caller and hung up. Everybody has limits. As a “customer” (you might think, “victim”) you might think that you have a right to be treated better. I don’t know, I haven’t called the VA since the late 1970s but your stories suggest that you are right. But maybe some of those people you call are just as frustrated as you are. Or maybe they are just stupid. For sure a system where people cannot be fired does not motivate competition or quality. Anyway, think about the poor bastard on the other end of the phone line. If you are their pain in the ass problem for today, don’t expect to be treated like a fricken princess. if you are being reasonable and they are being a pain in the ass, maybe they have a boss who doesn’t need a letter from your congressman on his desk. Is this… Read more »
The C&P process is a joke.
And so is Allison Hickey.
This board is making false assumption about the message the cartoon is making.
VA reps do not wear uniforms, and veterans do not provide services.
Since the image is in uniform it looks to me like it is criticizing the service branches and pentagon’s lack of support and cooperation with the VA.
Yes, we’re making an assumption as to the intended message. But unless you know the individual in question, you have no idea whether or not that assumption is false.
Common sense and personal experience with the VA leads me to believe it’s likely a bad attempt at a joke – and is indicative of a problem with the VA’s corporate culture. Moreover, recent press reports of various VA issues support the latter assertion.
Try again. Maybe next time, you can manage to find someplace to include “Workers of the world, unite!” into your comment. (Yes, that’s a reference to your comments on another article.)
Exactly, we have no idea what the message is, or what the context is. All we have is that it is a cartoon found in a drawer at a VA office.
Yet you guys are using it as an indicator that “the VA has a cultural problem.
The image is clearly that of someone in uniform passive aggressively saying they are not intending to be helpful.
Since nobody in the VA wears uniforms (except the VA police) then why is everyone assuming the image is that of a passive aggressively unhelpful VA rep?
It does not look anything like a VA rep.
Do I think the VA needs work? Hell yes. But this is not an indicator of anything negative about the VA.
First off, that drawing isn’t “found in a drawer” Taylor. Its hanging from a computer screen and if someone can take a picture of it, it is visible to a “common” area.
I’m going to take a stab that you also think Slick Willy’s asking “what is the definition of “is”? was plausible too.
Hell, I bet you will say the same thing about the elf hanging from a cord. “Well, there aren’t any vets that are ‘elves’ so that doesn’t indicate a real suicide because elves aren’t real.” or something to that effect?
Go back to smoking crack or heroine or whatever you use to get screwy in the head.
He’s cool with Slick Willie because the people that believed Slick Willie’s bullshit were motivated for the public good. Public good, like gun free zones, small capacity magazines, and no folding stocks. .. all those things that have made places like Chicago so safe. Yep, Lars Logic.
I am not a fan of of the assault weapons ban. And I despise California’s even more restrictive measures and believe 100% they are unconstitutional regardless of the California court of appeals ruling.
I do not like the fact that I have to keep a few of my weapons out of state where I do not have positive control over them.
Background checks are reasonable. I have mixed feelings about gun registration.
So you only jump on the “public good” bus when it aligns with your own selfish interest. Got it.
//hypothesis confirmed
What the hell are you talking about?
Do you even know what a public good is?
And what in my post above justifies you comment?
I may not respond to you much in the future. These drive buy potshots you make that demonstrate severe comprehension issues are tiresome.
Example: Public good = If we save one life, isn’t it worth it = gun free zones and assault weapons bans = thousands of dead kids in Chicago. “Public good” policies often have repercussions and unintended consequences.
And that is just one example of public good. War on poverty would be another. National healthcare would be another.
As far as drive by potshots I don’t feel compelled to match you paragraph to paragraph in volume. I think you are smart enough to connect the dots. I don’t think you are stupid, I just think you are logically inconsistent, i.e. a hypocrite.
Your understanding of public good is all over the place. There is two primary notions that fall under “public goods.” Economic idea of “a public good”, And the political idea of “the public good” Most theories justifying governance claim that government should make decisions consistent with ‘the public good’. Banning guns is not inherently consistent with ‘the public good’. So being opposed to various policies with respect to gun control is not necessarily opposing ‘the public good’. “War on poverty” is just a soundbite that represents countless different and ever changing policies at all levels of government in all communities in the US. To make the sweeping generalization that all of them are in ‘the public good’ is not accurate. Some are some are not. Each policy and its effects would have to be weighed to make a overall assessment about whether the policy is more or less functioning in the interest of ‘the public good’. And that assessment is often as much political ideology as it is empirical evidence. Same for national healthcare policies. The concept of “a public good” as opposed to “the public good” is at first pretty straightforward. It is those things that are non-excludable and non-rivalrous. Meaning the consumption by one individual does not necessarily mean there is any less to consume by another individual. Things like knowledge, national defense, over air broadcasts, public space lighting, and fresh air are common examples. Government is expected to help provide or facilitate the provision of these goods because everyone can share in their benefits without leaving anyone out and thus they are hugely utility maximizing for a society. It gets fuzzier after that. There are several ‘goods’ that are also considered public goods but they are potentially excludable or rivalrous. Police for instance. Some communities get more or less, and if one neighborhood is ‘using’ a police patrol the others cannot. Fire fighters is another. Clean water, Bridges, roads, schools, libraries, parks, etc. All these are usually considered public goods but are potentially rivalrous and excludable. The reason these potentially excludable and rivalrous goods are considered ‘public… Read more »
Silly me. I thought a government taking care of the daily needs of the populace was something called a “welfare state”, and was generally a characteristic of Socialist nations. “From each according to his ability; to each according to his need” – or something like that.
And yeah, in theory it’s great – until you run out of OPM (other people’s money) to pay for it all. Then things tend to go bad.
Count me among Jefferson’s “That government is best which governs least” crowd.
Lars, thank you for the rebuttal. I am now re-thinking my wording in which I said “I do not think you are stupid.”
Your side of the aisle has tried to sell Gun Control as a “Public Safety” issue for years. More recently they have tried to sell it as a “Public Health” issue.
The War on Poverty and Great Society policies have killed and enslaved more than the number of children killed in Chicago, a Gun Free Zone.
If you like your Doctor, you can keep your Doctor.
I am done wasting time on you because frankly, you are not worth the effort. Good luck in your continued efforts to properly conjugate the “be” verb. You’ll need those skills when you write your two autobiographies.
As always, ol’ fathead lard changes the subject to control the thread and feed his useless ego.
Gun control has nothing to do with this thread. An offhand remark is just that, offhand remark, nothing else. But because lars the numbskull must control what others think, he takes one tiny word out of a collected group and now it becomes all about gun control, even if it isn’t the thread subject.
Anyone else can see, clearly, that GDContractor made generalized statement but lardass is incapable of doing that.
What a shame that all those neural ganglia of his have atrophied so badly.
Oh, yes – while I’m thinking about it: the term ‘war on poverty’ is NOT a sound bite.
It was coined by Lyndon Johnson in 1964 as a title for his policy initiative, which had two parts, one long-term and the other short-term, and it is ALWAYS written as the War on Poverty. ALWAYS.
Either use it correctly or do not use it at all.
And apparently you do not know what a “soundbite” is either.
Soundbite: “A sound bite is a short clip of speech or music extracted from a longer piece of audio, often used to promote or exemplify the full length piece. In the context of journalism, a sound bite is characterized by a short phrase or sentence that captures the essence of what the speaker was trying to say, and is used to summarize information…”
It was not the title of his policy initiative. In his state of the union address introducing his policy agenda he used the phrase; “This administration today, here and now, declares unconditional war on poverty in America.”
The media used the clip of that statement on the news that night, and used the quote in print media to ‘capture the essence of what the President was trying to say, and is used it to summarize his policy agenda’
That soundbite became the unofficial name of the policy agenda which was in the form of dozens of pieces of legislation, regulations, executive orders, and other initiatives.
Delilah,
I didn’t bring up gun control, or the public good on this thread. GCDContractor did to ridicule me. I responded, he responded….and so on.
Every post you have flung in my direction has either been flat wrong, or based almost entirely on your not understanding what a word or phrase meant.
Its obnoxious.
“Since the image is in uniform [because I, Lars, say it is]…”
Really? You see a uniform? Please elaborate.
I think what you really see is a way to weasel out of your argument that this type of behavior is due to gerrymandered voting districts and campaign finance. They’re not going to fear you Lars if you keep bending over backwards to give them a pass.
I have a great idea. Let’s do this “scientifically”. Can we have a consensus among the readers as to whether or not the image is in uniform?
The image is definitely not in civilian clothes. How do you not see the uniform?
Sleeve braids on cuff. Military cap.
You guys will disagree with me about anything.
Military uniform ? Nope, but could be a:
Amtrak Conductor
Trailways Bus Driver
Ritz-Carlton Red Cap
United Airlines Pilot
Princess Cruise Lines Purser
I was thinking maybe Western Union Telegraph Delivery Man … which used to be a great job until the the sociopaths in the GOP broke up their union. Now you hardly see them any more. Oh the humanity. Damn Republicans. Anyone know where I can buy a good buggy whip?
Candy-Gram for Mongo?
Sure, it could be any of those things. Maybe the VA employee was disgruntled over his last Carnival Cruise line trip they took.
I am just confident the image is not intended to be a VA rep who is unwilling to be helpful. VA reps do not wear uniforms and I am confident that the image is wearing uniform.
Looks like a Metra conductor: Show your tickets please!!!
Yeah, its probably true – I would disagree with you about anything. Could be our passive aggressive reaction to you being a jackass but maybe that is just me.
If you want a little respect, maybe it would help if you stop writing things like, “veterans do not provide services”. If you want a little respect, sometimes it helps if you show some.
Veteran’s are not providers in the VA system, they are the beneficiaries of the system.
You have exceedingly limited reading comprehension issues if you could not interpret what I said to the context of the VA and realize that I was saying the veterans are beneficiaries of the VA system not the veteran services providers (though some VA employees are veterans).
And I am a veteran. I know we provided and often continue to provide a service to our country.
But the context was VA services and that veterans are not the providers of VA services (unless they happen to be VA employees).
And another thing Lars, in regards to your FB comment above. The artwork was not found in a drawer, it was on a desk and I think it was facing the public, i.e. facing away from the VA person who sit (and presumably works) at the desk.
There’s a throbbing SOB who will correct me if I am wrong…. he always does.
Ok, I stand corrected. I can’t find the details of how or where it was found, but since it is taped to desk I think you are right.
It does not really change that the image does not appear to portray the attitude of an unhelpful VA rep since the image looks to me to be in uniform.
i wish we had some info on what the artist was trying to say.
We have consensus. Quit being a denier. Fix gerrymandering and campaign finance so we can sing kumbaya and make them fear us.
What artist? This is a bunch of bullshit. Someone at the VA thought this was a funny cartoon to post in their workspace because they are an idiot. There is no art or hidden meaning to it. It’s a jackass being a jackass, simple and to the point. I don’t need to analyze the “artist” intentions here.
Then you apparently didn’t read the freaking article above, or have serious problems with reading comprehension and/or your eyesight, Lars. The article – taken together with the photo itself – clearly indicates that the photo was observed openly displayed and taped to an inbox at a VA C&P office. Since comments above clearly indicate it was photographed by a person visiting said office, it’s also also obvious that it was in an area where the visiting public could view it.
The more I look at that cartoon, the more it resembles a cartoon figure from the Reader’s Digest or the Saturday Evening Post, from the late 1950 or early 1960s.
Almost looks like a bellhop at the Palmer House in the Loop, too.
Lars, you’re right in one aspect, veterans don’t provide services. At least not in VA where the workforce is overwhelmingly non-veteran. 73% have not served, which VA proudly posted on Facebook.
Lars you are a veteran it seems but your tangent logic to most every thread puzzled me. Then, I found this perfect example you your reasoning.
Make that “example of your reasoning.”
Sparks, you could at least post a spew alert! 😉
BAZINGA!
The real problem with the VA is not its union. It is essentially a megacorporation with thousands of poorly-motivated employees whose job is to provide service.
Changing that attitude toward the megacorporation’s customers (vets) won’t happen overnight, by any stretch of the imagination. There is no real motive to improve service to the customer (the veteran) by the go-between (whoever sits behind the desk). You can’t force people to care about their jobs. Sandcrabs are notorious for not wanting to do one tiny bit more than is necessary. It isn’t the doctors or the NPs, it’s the desk jockeys who deal with the customers (vets) up front. In some places they’re good; in others, they are troglodytes.
I have no idea how you go about changing that other than cleaning house and starting over.
[…] Conservative: Scott Walker Hits Back At Obama Over Workers’ Rights This Ain’t Hell: Another Indicator Of The VA’s Culture Issues Weasel Zippers: White House Goes To Condition Squirrel 4, Obama To Hit Late Night Talk Show Circuit […]
It is only one data point but I had a great experience on the phone today with two VA folks trying to straighten out a pay matter. One chap was especially helpful and creative. Didn’t hurt that he was also Army retired.
Just to give credit where it is due.
I don’t understand why that caption would upset anyone. It’s a statement of compassion, “How can I not help you?” meaning ‘you are in a jam and I can’t let you flounder.’
?????????? U spek nu inclesh?