LBJ’s ghost
The Wall Street Journal reports that Lyndon Johnson is alive and well and living in the White House situation room;
“The U.S. military campaign against Islamic militants in Syria is being designed to allow President Obama to exert a high degree of personal control over the campaign, going so far as to require that the military obtain presidential sign-off for any strike in Syrian territory.”
[…]
“The requirement for the Syrian strikes will be far more stringent than those in Iraq, at least at first, to assure the Syrian air campaign remains strictly limited, in an attempt to mitigate the threat that the U.S. could be dragged more deeply into the conflict, according to the U.S. officials.”
The lesson of the 1st Gulf War was supposed to be that the politicians explain their goals to the generals and the generals are allowed to fight the war to attain those goals. The lesson of Vietnam was supposed to be that politicians can’t plan and fight wars as well as the soldiers. But everything old is new again with this administration.
Category: Barack Obama/Joe Biden, Terror War
Scary.
Agreed.
Predictable.
Though there is a fair body of circumstantial evidence that shows Obama never really attended any classes while in College, if he DID attend any, then he certainly didn’t attend the one on Vietnam.
Or maybe he did, and he plans to try and outdo both LBJ AND Carter in micromanaging our military into another disaster.
But can our military – or our country – even survive another such disaster?
Those appear to NOT be unintended consequences…..
If I remember my history, Hitler micromanaged his army also. We know how that turned out…
I was thinking the same thing.
Yep. I was thinking the same on top-down/Hitler/WWII/micromanaging/”mommy may I” and LOSING!!
I didn’t even make it through the post before “Operation Barbarossa” popped into my head. At least Hitler had some experience with and sympathy for his military. Not antipathy.
Hitler hated his military like no one before or since. He hated all of them – the generals because they tried to bring up strategy and logistics, the field commanders because they tried to convince him that his troops could not fight without winter clothes and that the Russians were tough, and his troops because they did not win. He hated his military before the war and during the war.
Hitler only hated high ranking officers. Because they almost always are despicable.
Yeah – just look at Eisenhower, Marshall, Patch, Puller, Truscott, Patton, Bradley, King, Nimitz, Halsey, Arnold, Ridgeway, Gavin, and Schwarzkopf. Such a bunch of blackhearted rogues who cared for nothing but themselves!
Yeah – just look at Eisehower, Marshall, Patch, Puller, Truscott, Patton, Bradley, King, Nimitz, Halsey, Arnold, Ridgeway, Gavin, and Schwarzkopf. Such a bunch of blackhearted rogues who cared for nothing but themselves.
As if this clown could find his buttocks … with both hands.
Dear Lord, our poor troops …
You forgot the map and compass.
O’Bammy couldn’t pour water out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel.
…and a flashlight…you both forgot the flashlight…
Don’t forget the stripmap…
Guys,relax. He’s got this under control. He has plenty of military experience and expertise. It’s not like he is some community organizer or anything.
Yup lessons learned and one two three FLUSH!
All better or more gooder from the common core books.
I wonder if the current POTUS will brag about being the approval authority for bombing outhouses, too.
You beat me to it. How I remember that statement. Perhaps he’ll authorize… nah the heck with it. I’ve been down this road, seen this movie, what an imbecilic group of people. Have we anyone to play McNamara and the whiz kids?
Bad link, bro.
Yeah, Google Books seems to have now made that page not readily viewable. Try this source instead (see p. 55 and related endnote).
http://www.ibrarian.net/navon/paper/THE_REVOLT_OF_THE_MAJORS__HOW_THE_AIR_FORCE_CHANG.pdf?paperid=18362636
OK, you can pound on LBJ all you want to, but he was a bombing mission observer in the Navy in the South Pacific during WWII. 😛 He at least HAD some military background. (Resigned his commission in 1964.)
When were the bombing runs in Vietnam? It was AFTER he left office. That was Nixon’s gig. Nixon was also in the Navy. 😛
But this news? Geez, I thought the worst case scenario was a few weeks away. I was mistaken. It’s right under our noses. God help the troops when push comes to shove.
Ummm, LBJ strong armed a commission in the Navy and then forced himself on a bombing run where the bomber had to turn back before it ever reached it’s destination, never came under fire and then he got himself written up for an undeserved Silver Star. To say that he was a Bombing Mission Observer lends one to think he actually had that job throughout the war. That is not true. LBJ, then a member of Congress, had persuaded FDR to send him on an inspection tour of our forces in the Pacific. The trip was a political stunt by a politician who wanted to burnish his credentials in anticipation of future campaigns for higher office. Johnson, who had been the first congressman after Pearl Harbor to sign up for active military duty, had agreed to fly as an observer on a single bombing mission over Lae, New Guinea. But before the plane could reach the target a generator went out, forcing the pilot to turn back home to base.
No other crew member received a medal for the mission that LBJ received his Silver Star for….
Yep. Political stunt to join (first!), and political stunt to find a mission. Immediately afterwards, he was pulled back to safe rear assignments.
LBJ also arranged to have the medal presented to him multiple times at public occasions, presumably as a PR stunt.
Screw him.
MK75Gunner…Wow. So, LBJ pulled a John Kerry for his awards? Who knew?
Yep. It was covered up for many years. CNN actually did an expose years ago about it. Back when they weren’t complete Communist cheerleaders.
MK75Gunner…CNN stands for the “Crescent News Network”
I stand corrected.
IIRC, the B-17 turned back due to mechanical issues, then got lost over central Australia. The crew were tossing guns, ammo, everything but the radios to lighten the plane and stretch their available fuel. LBJ got worried and started pacing the length of the plane, constantly throwing off the trim (he was not a particularly lightweight individual) at the worst possible time, the pilots being preoccupied with not running out of gas over the least-inhabitable desert on Earth. Finally, a waist gunner (PFC) told Johnson to sit his ass down and stay put for the good of all aboard, LBJ included. Johnson took offense and tried to pull rank. The PFC supposedly said, “If you don’t stay put, you’ll crash the plane. So you either sit down and stay there, or I’ll throw your fat ass out the window, *Sir*.” Or words to that effect.
I’ll have to dig up the book that had that story.
B-26, actually.
Unfortunately, only the first few pages of the pertinent chapter from Caro’s Means of Ascent (Chapter 3, “In the Pacific”) are available on-line on line at this source. My recolleciton is that the return flight was uneventful, but I’ll have to check with my copy at home tonight to confirm. Been a while since I read it.
The previous chapter (which is available on-line) and the first few pages of “In the Pacific” that are available on-line makes it clear that LBJ was being cynically political in both volunteering for active duty and to fly in combat as an observer. He initially asked for an assignment in Washington, and got one; he went to theater when people started asking why he hadn’t. He was also similarly cynical in requesting to go on a “combat mission” – he only did so after he got word that FDR was going to order his recall to DC in the near future.
My apologies, Hondo. It seems my somewhat sleep-deprived brain combined two stories. After reviewing the ol’ library, it turns out the story I referenced is from “Flying Fortress” by Edward Jablonsky. Great book, by the way, essentially a biography of the B-17.
During 1942, MacArthur and other HMFICs in the SW Pacific theater were in the habit of using B-17s as staff taxis. It made some sense, given that Japanese fighters were not unheard of in Australian airspace at the time. One such transit flight had LBJ as one of a half-dozen high-ranking passengers. They got lost over the Outback, and the rest of the story transpired pretty much as previously stated.
As far as Johnson’s integrity (/sarc), it was pretty clear that he was the inspiration for the character of Congressman/Commander Neal Owyn from “In Harm’s Way.”
Thank you for pointing out my mistake.
No ball-busting intended, amigo. Wasn’t sure, but I didn’t think the Navy flew any B-17s during the war – and I distinctly remembered it being a Navy mission. I had to look up the type of aircraft to be sure.
If I had to pick one POTUS who I thought was the most thoroughly distasteful individual ever to hold office, LBJ would be that man. He’s also high (if not #1) on my list of US Presidents whose Administration did the most long-term damage to the nation. IMO even Carter and the current Occupant, 1600 Penn Ave, pale in comparison. Ditto Nixon, Harding, Pierce, Buchanan, or most others judged historically to have damaged the nation. Only FDR IMO comes close. And FDR didn’t manage to blunder us into a war we never should have fought, screw it up royally, then quit in the middle of same when the going got really tough.
I guess it’s obvious I don’t like LBJ – either as a man, or what he did. (smile)
Completely agree with your assessment. Even other presidents who did serious damage either did something good which balanced out the scale or did not have such complete disregard for anything outside what served him well.
The only thing I can say remotely in his defense is that he may not have been willfully driving the country to ruination, more just having the good of the country behind what was good for LBJ. And Carter, while clueless in so many ways, had the good of this country at heart. Not sure that the survival of the country makes the list for the current occupier. It certainly is not a priority.
OWB: Not sure I can even fully agree with your last statemenet above re: LBJ much caring about what’s best for the nation. Getting a nation into a war via dishonest means, then continuing for years a war of no strategic interest or importance solely because ‘I am not going to be the first president to lose a war’ and instead continually escalating it, doesn’t exactly strike me as caring that much about the nation’s best interests.
Maybe if I had capitalized the MAY in that sentence? 😉
No argument at all, Hondo. Not convinced either that he cared about anything other than himself.
And you’re also wrong on the bombing of Vietnam…Operation Rolling Thunder, launched in March 1965, after President Lyndon B. Johnson ordered a sustained bombing campaign of North Vietnam. The operation was designed to interdict North Vietnamese transportation routes in the southern part of the North Vietnam and to slow infiltration of personnel and supplies into South Vietnam. During the early months of this campaign, there were restrictions against striking targets in or near Hanoi and Haiphong, but in July 1966, Rolling Thunder was expanded to include the bombing of North Vietnamese ammunition dumps and oil storage facilities. In the spring of 1967, it was further expanded to include power plants, factories, and airfields in the Hanoi and Haiphong areas.
The White House closely controlled Operation Rolling Thunder and at times President Johnson personally selected the targets. From 1965 to 1968, about 643,000 tons of bombs were dropped on North Vietnam. The operation continued, with occasional suspensions, until President Johnson halted it entirely on October 31, 1968, under increasing domestic political pressure.
Yes, I did forget about that.
Okay, I was wrong. I’m not perfect. I do not have holes in my hands. I was just trying to make a (lame) point, that’s all. I’ll go sit in the corner now.
Ever hear of something called “Operation Rolling Thunder”, Ex-PH2? Or “Operation Barrel Roll”?
In point of fact, bombing of North Vietnam was widespread during the LBJ administration. All areas were open to bombing prior to prior to the partial bombing halt Johnson announced when he pulled out of the 1968 election on 31 March 1968. And bombing south of the 20th parallel continued until 30 October 1968 – when LBJ cynically stopped the bombing to try and swing the election towards Humphrey.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/johnson-announces-bombing-halt
http://www.lbjlibrary.org/exhibits/the-president-announcing-his-decision-to-halt-the-bombing-of-north-vietnam
Saying that bombing of North Vietnam was “Nixon’s gig” is, to be blunt, bullsh!t. The US bombed North Vietnam under both Johnson and Nixon. (Nixon, however, didn’t micromanage it like Johnson did. He didn’t have to approve bombing outhouses.)
LBJ deserves no type of “pass” whatsoever regarding Vietnam. That lying bastard got us into Vietnam without letting the US public (or Congress) know what he was doing. He did it by deceit, trickery, and subterfuge until we already had massive ground forces involved and no easy disengagement was possible. And when things began to go bad, he quit – and left the mess for his successor to clean up.
Screw him.
And, for what it’s worth: LBJ had a whopping 7 months of active duty during World War II – Dec 1941 to July 1942.
Nixon served for close to 4 years (June 1942 to Mar 1946).
Ex-PH2: Operation Rolling Thunder comes to mind, immediately. March 1965-1968
All LBJ. All Day and all night.
Oh, hell, I can’t even use senile dementia as an exucse, can I?
Hell, Ex-PH2 – we all have brain cramps from time to time. No sweaty-da, GI. (smile)
…You know, if you think about it – for politicians of the President’s political persuasion…the way Vietnam turned out was a victory for them. Why shouldn’t he do it the same way?
Mike
So Obama wants to personally sign off on all Syrian bombing runs. Huh. What surprises me about that is Obama is more famous for NOT taking responsibility for anything and always having a “blame buddy”. I would not want to be the military adviser in the situation room giving him strike coordinates. Might as well tell the poor guy, “hey you see that silver charger on the table? Yea, well, it’s for your head when shit goes south so, BOHICA…Sir.”
It’s jabberwocky! If he is required to sign off, nothing will ever be done. By the time they find him, brief him, deliberate, call together a contemplative study group, then take a poll, the potential target will be long gone.
SOG had a mole and many of their trail watch missions were compromised by that guy. But he was assisted by the requirement that every SOG trail watch mission be approved by the White House and the ambassador to Laos. It took time to get those missions approved so the NVA had time to get set.
Here I am talking to myself again … because OpSec was not tight enough, most of the later SOG recon missions were attacked during insertion or shortly thereafter. Attacks against the earlier missions were less frequent and less successful, probably because the bad-guy communication was still being developed and because at that time the NVA were not able to reposition troops fast enough.
Did we learn the OpSec lesson?
I assume that the raids won’t launch without authorization and they will launch from far away so there is no need to worry about attacks when they take off or return.
If Mr. Obama thinks that he is going to stop ISIS this way, I think that he is literally out of his mind.
I guess Valerie Jarrett doesn’t trust her puppet to pick the correct targets. Between this and her efforts to turn the Military into the peace corps I seriously wonder how many troops will be left before the end of this administration…
Considering everything, what if they gave a war and no one volunteered for it?
Hmm. Might be able to make a story out of that. Or maybe a movie . . . . (smile)
How many names will they etch on this wall?
What was op barrel roll? Was it the New Jeresy with those big ass guns. The 1st time we heard the battleship fire those huge shells, everybody hit the dirt and tried too dig a hole w/their hands. those shells were huge and sounded like a VW was shot thru the air. The craters left by a single shell made the craters left by B52 look small.The most scary sound and effect of the war. Joe
Joe: Barrel Roll was the air campaign against the Ho Chi Minh Trail in North Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia. Rolling Thunder was the air campaign against North Vietnam proper.
This is a little over a year later, and look how things have changed.
Is bodaprez still itching to sign off on all bombing runs over Syria?
Does he even give a flying fart in the sand about it?
No, but he is ONE with Paris. We’ll ALWAYS have Paris, and we can blame it on him, instead of Bush.
So, now that the military is going to be turned into a Medicaid facility for people with personality disorders that exist prior to entry (don’t see them lining up yet), will that still be in force with the next elected individual? Or will we be so busy defending ourselves at home that no one will give a crap who dresses how or claims which sex?
I’m concerned that push is going to come to shove sometime in the near future and we are truly unprepared to face it.