Washington Post blames US Troops and Bush for Iraq

| June 13, 2014

Pat and Chief Tango send us links to the Washington Post in which they do their best to deflect blame from the current administration for the failures of the Iraqi Army in Iraq this past week. Greg Jaffe, the WaPo journalist who told us at the last Milblog Conference that we have outlived our usefulness in the information business because he knows as much about the military now as we know, begins the blame game by blaming US troops for losing Iraq;

The Iraqi army’s collapse this week marked a stark failure for the U.S. military that trained it and for Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki’s government, which has struggled to address leadership and morale problems that now threaten the force’s ability to defend the country.

Although they far outnumbered the insurgents and had greater firepower, Maliki’s troops have fled by the thousands in the country’s north, allowing the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) to take the city of Mosul and start an ominous march toward Baghdad.

Yeah, nice try, Jaffe. The troops did their jobs. They went above and beyond what they could do given what they had to work with. Fareed Zakaria, in another Post article, takes the more popular position of blaming Bush;

But how did Maliki come to be prime minister of Iraq? He was the product of a series of momentous decisions made by the Bush administration. Having invaded Iraq with a small force — what the expert Tom Ricks called “the worst war plan in American history” — the administration needed to find local allies. It quickly decided to destroy Iraq’s Sunni ruling establishment and empower the hard-line Shiite religious parties that had opposed Saddam Hussein. This meant that a structure of Sunni power that had been in the area for centuries collapsed. These moves — to disband the army, dismantle the bureaucracy and purge Sunnis in general — might have been more consequential than the invasion itself.

Um, Maliki has won popular elections in Iraq at least three times, the most recent was last month. That’s how he came to be Prime Minister. Leaning on Tom Ricks isn’t helping you. Ricks is taking the Obama position on Iraq, he’s decided that he’s ignoring it.

The problem in Iraq isn’t a failure of the troops to do their job or Bush’s planning for the war. The failures came before the war began when liberals decided that a war against Iraq by a Republican Administration was unacceptable. It was fine during the Clinton Administration, but in 2003, not so much.

That told the insurgents that all they needed to do was wait us out and we’d leave. Saddam Hussein gave his generals each copies of the “Black Hawk Down” DVD as an instructional manual to defeat American will.

The insurgents in Iraq thought that the 2006 midterm election was a great victory, misunderstanding the US’ political process and the Iraq Surge surprised them. The 2008 election was their real victory – the Obama Administration wanted the US out of Iraq before the 2012 elections, regardless of the cost. Well, those chickens came home to roost this week.

The Weekly Standard reminds us that Joe Biden once called Iraq one of President Obama’s “great achievements”. Withdrawal was their only strategy, much like it is in Afghanistan now.

Category: Barack Obama/Joe Biden, Terror War

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Former 11B

Sorry Jonn, but I have to disagree with some of what you wrote. Zakaria isn’t wrong about the boneheaded decision to dismantle all of the Sunni power structure. Although I would put that more on Bremer than Bush.

Maliki is a hardline sectarian Shiite. And he’s been getting payback against the Sunnis since he became the MFIC. One of the reasons ISIS is gaining ground so quickly is because Sunnis see ISIS as preferable to the Malaki government. Malaki may have won those elections, but he’s the candidate for the largest Islamic sect in Iraq. He only cares about Shiites, the Sunnis and the Kurds are SOL.

In a country as divided as Iraq you need to guarantee some sort of power for the Sunnis and the Kurds lest they fall victim to the tyranny of the majority. Completely purging Sunnis from the government was a mistake that is coming back to bite us as well as anything Bronco Bumbler has done.

Green Thumb

Arm the Kurds.

Recognize the Kurdish state (Kurdistan).

Let them open their “gas station”.

Problem solved.

On a personal note: Way to go KRG and Peshmerga.

Rock on. About time.

MustangCryppie

Yup. The Kurds are A-OK in my book. When the Iraqi Army unsurprisingly ran for the hills, the Kurds unsurprisingly have stood their ground. They deserve their own state.

UPNorth

This load of crap must be the White House talking points for June 13, soon to be followed by the talking points for June 14.

Sparks

Greg Jaffe can GF himself with a rolled up copy of WP. About all it worth anyway. Our troops trained the hell out of the Iraqi Army. Gave them skills and abilities far above anything they had conceived of before. Then we left them one of the best equipped Armies in the region. You know who fail Iraq? Iraqis. We can teach them fighting skills from hand to hand combat, to small team and large team operations and tactics. But the one thing you can’t teach a man or a nation is courage. They are cowards with no will to fight for freedom. They would rather lay down their arms and live under terrorist controlled Sharia Law than be free. So whatever they are willing to fight and die for is what they will get and all they deserve. I have no sympathy for them. Obama is dragging his feet in evacuating our Embassy because it is the final sign of his failure there. The outcome will be, the plans are in place RIGHT NOW by the ISIS to overrun Baghdad, bypassing this and that strategic point in order to beeline to the Embassy, surround it and then it is over. Tehran all over again. Executions on video of contractors and non essential personnel to make the statement they mean business then the hostages to get what they want. Which will be a LOT. To include all detainees from Gitmo to start and it will go up from there. So Obama, while you and Kerry are sitting on your hands, the ISIS are four moves ahead of you already in planning. This is a big mess our nation is going to have to suffer through because of the clown care show in DC. But that lends humor to a serious matter. For every Embassy person who dies as a result, Obama and his Administration should be held personally accountable. Unlike Pilate, they will not be able to wash that blood from there hands.

Ex-344MP

Couldn’t have said it better.

Mark Olson

Agree 100%!

Old Trooper

Yep

Atkron

Wow…you have said everything I have been thinking since this shit started.

One question I have did this group receive any ‘assistance’ from the U.S. when it was fighting in Syria?

If so, then didn’t the current administration have a hand in what is currently happening in Iraq?

Sparks

Atkron…Spot on. Obama and Kerry did lend aid to factions in Syria. All the while everyone was telling them, who had common sense, that those weapons would be used for evil instead of their wide eyed notion of good. Those factions, have always and will always, coalesce into a fighting force against freedom, in favor of terrorist Sharia Law and anything anti-American. To them, the loss in Afghanistan for the Russians is small potatoes compared to the overthrow of Iraq. It is their big statement to America of a middle finger and GFY America, we won.

Fjardeson

We need to get all our people out of that embassy NOW. They are just potential hostages. NSA/Obama, are you LISTENING?

And probably not a bad idea to drop the building behind us.

Leave them what they want. Wreckage.

Thunderstixx

Very true…
I wish it wasn’t one run on paragraph. The whole thing is very good and also factual. It is just hard to read like that.

2/17 Air Cav

“The Iraqi army’s collapse this week marked a stark failure for the U.S. military that trained it….” Desperate and despicable statements such as that sicken reasonable people. It is not only wrong but wrongheaded. It’s only purpose is to blame the US military for the disastrous debacle now being visited upon Iraq. If I teach someone to shoot properly and accurately and later learn that the person I trained threw his rifle away, how the hell is that a failure of training?

Redacted1775

Troops win battles, politicians lose wars. Especially the lunatics polluting DC these days.

Hondo

True. The aim of every war is political, not military. And ill-defined or unachievable political goals virtually always guarantee a debacle.

ohio

Maliki ‘fired’ all of his generals with knowledge and experience and replaced them with shit political hacks. (Like someone else we all know). They ran and the troops followed them. The Kurds are the only hope for any stability in that region.
(Just my opinion)

Green Thumb

Agreed.

Pinto Nag

Jaffe, your scapegoating isn’t going to work here, you liberal fuck. Obama wouldn’t let the military do it’s job, wouldn’t give them the manpower they needed when they asked for it, pulled them out of Iraq when they should have stayed — and now you blame them for the failure that THEY howled to the whole world would happen when they were pulled out? From start to finish, this cluster f*ck is the responsibility of the morons in charge who are making decisions that have no basis in reality, no basis in sound military tactics, and no ability to deal with the truth. That would be every tier and level of the Obama Administration. So go take your irresponsible, idiot ass out and play in traffic — go make yourself useful as a hood ornament.

Jacobite

A smart CIC would empty the Embassy, mine the grounds, and order targeting data preloaded to a couple of Tomahawks, then have them placed on standby.

Let the ISIS have their 15 seconds of fame then light em up like a roman candle on international television.

Old Trooper

Sounds good to me. But, we don’t have a CIC that is smart enough to do that. He can barely tie his own shoes without busting his ass.

mistythemedic

I love it. I love this plan. I’m excited about it and I’d go back there right now to help execute.

Sparks

Jacobite…You are right and I have been saying it for a while. Obama will not act before our Embassy is overrun and captured. Then the deep, deep shit will begin for this nation. It is not going to be a good outcome for us at all in any way. Obama and Kerry are still sitting on their hands in the “let’s see how this plays out” mode hoping for diplomatic resolutions and sanctions to work. Problem is and always has been, there is no diplomacy available against terrorists. They don’t talk, they kill.

Fjardeson

Jacobite, that is an excellent plan. Are you reading my mind? Oh wait, duh, the NSA.

Unfortunately no-one in this pooh-pooh-CYA-with-paper administration would actually execute it. Even though it would TOTALLY demoralize ISIS.

OWB

All I ever hear from these clowns is “blah, blah, blah…Bush…blah, blah…Iraq…Bush…blah, blah, blah…but don’t EVER blame the terrorists…Bush…blah, blah…the only terrorists in the world are US citizens…blah, blah, blah.”

Of course they cannot solve the problem because they cannot even look at the problem, or correctly identify the players. International TERRORISTS caused the mess we are in. Yes, poor decisions by our elected officials (usually in the name of compromise) and an assortment of bureaucrats contributed negatively (aka made a bad situation worse) to it, but the fault lies squarely with TERRORISTS.

A Proud Infidel®™

Greg Jaffe,

FUCK YOU TO DEATH up the ass sideways with a red hot six feet long piece of railroad track and SHIT IN YOUR MOTHER’S FACE for raising such a sniveling snotnosed shit like you!!
Warriors fight and win wars. Politicians and their sniveling snotnosed limp-wristed drooling asskissers like you pull the plug on us Warriors and blame everyone else for your incompetence. In essence, you’re spitting on honorable Servicemen and Women’s graves with your shittyassed editorial!!

Old Trooper

Don’t hold back, bro, let ’em have it!!

2/17 Air Cav

Good suggestion, Jacobite, but the Obama Administration has taken another route, through the Dept of State. John “Jungle Stroll w/ Camerman” Kerry has called upon the Iraqis to, I kid you not, “Come together.” Of course, that’s what John Lennon said decades ago, before a guy put a few rounds in him. Perhaps, though, we have now identified the Obama Administration’s foreign policy guidebook: Beatles’ lyrics.

Jacobite

Wonderfull. :\

Not.

Pinto Nag

You needed to post a spew warning for that, AC. My control over my gag reflex ain’t what it used to be. :/

NHSparky

So the “peaceful” wife-beater Lennon is singing again? Pardon me while I don’t give a shit.

The Other Whitey

Don’t forget “peaceful” child abuser, “peaceful” boss from hell, “peaceful” raging asshole, “peacefully” inflicted Yoko Ono on the civilized world, etc.

Let me join you in giving zero shits for that assdouche and his worshippers.

MustangCryppie

Yup, TOW, you about summed up my thoughts about good ole Yoko.

ArmyATC

Balad is in the crosshairs right now and Taji will be next before Baghdad. Unless they move right now, many US contractors training the Iraqi Army and Air Force will be captured at both places. It would be just like this fucked up administration to leave those guys hanging in the wind.

Jabatam

Having been one of those guys that trained Iraqi para-military forces, fuck this guy! It’s pretty hard to train or advise an Iraqi National Police battalion when 3 out of the top 4 officers are Shia sympathizers (the BN XO was married to Muqtada Al Sadr’s sister for fucks sake). They also have a mindset of “do the bare minimum to get a paycheck.” They take no pride in their work, have no motivation nor do they take any initiative, and everything is “Insh Allah” (if God wills it). It is a crooked system that will not be fixed from the outside…the people have to want it to be fixed. My experience may not have been typical but, if it was, then it’s no wonder they deserted their post, stripping off their uniforms while they ran like cowards

ArmyATC

I saw the same thing at Taji. Lazy ‘soldiers’ who just wanted a paycheck.

Jabatam

Hell, there were several “fake” members of the unit that existed on paper but not in real life. The reason is that they were nearly always on “leave.” The battalion commander received their paychecks on payday…always promising to make sure their pay got to them. I’m sure that happened.

A Proud Infidel®

I’m an OEF Vet that’s never even set foot into Iraq, but I wonder if most Iraquis aren’t like the Afghans that will swap allegiances ten times more often than a Frenchman changes his underwear just to live another day? Over there we’re considered as outsiders, and allegiance to their fellow muslims appears to be most important to them!

Just Another Dirt Bag

Well, since it is my fellow Transition Team (MiTT, PTT, NPTT, etc.) vets and myself that the WP is dimeing out, I guess I should “share”. It is not that what Jaffe is saying is incorrect, however, its is misleading and proffers the wrong inferences. Here is what I saw of the 5th IA Div (the Diyala AO) whose Div HQ across from what used to be FOB Warhorse hopefully is not overrun by the end of the day today: -Tactically, we squared them away as best as they could be. We had 11B3 and 19D3s, each with nearly half-a decade squad leader time or PSG behind them and multiple prior-deployments. They drilled MOUT, CQB, and mounted combat patrol battle drills into their Jundies as if they were American Privates. However, the Iraqi leadership at the BN and BDE level dictated the class size, composition and (insch Alla) the time of training. One way around this problem was to write off the line companies and focus on the BN scout platoons, encouraging these assets to become something akin to the ARVN Ranger companies in Vietnam. So yes, we had a very proficient scout platoon element present looking squared away and ready to kill, but out in the battle space, sandal-waring scruffy Jundies in chocolate chips manned most checkpoints*. *This analysis is different where prior-service Republican Guard officers commanded companies, these companies were generally squared away, but they were few and far between. a few battalions were fielded M16/M4s but ours, and most that I saw, still used AKs/RPKs/PKs/DshKs, and Dimitris. -Fire support, at least in the 5th IA Div, was nonexistent during my deployment (08) They got their first Mortar Tube (120mm) 2/3 the way through my deployment and formed a mortar company (a battery) by seemingly picking Jundies at random. If I remember correctly, a mechanic from the HQ maintenance PLT was their first NCOIC. Never the less, my 13A brother on the team worked tirelessly to coordinate 11Cs from 2CR and latter 1/25 SBCT out there to train them on…indirect (understandably, they were weary about training local nationals… Read more »

Jacobite

After mine and my unit’s personal experiences with the INC and the FIF in 2003-04, I don’t find any of that suprising in the least.

Just another Dirt Bag

Well, you left us plenty of “man-love” there on thursday nights…aaand pretty much the rest of the week as well.

2/17 Air Cav

Just Another Dirt Bag: What he wrote doesn’t require inference at all. What he wrote, in pertinent part, was that the “The Iraqi army’s collapse this week marked a stark failure for the U.S. military that trained it….” I respect your view and your evident knowledge of goings on in Iraq regarding the state of their troops. What I am missing in your write up is how ANY of that is the fault of the US military such that responsibility for the present disaster deservedly can be laid at our military’s feet. A fighting spirit can’t be taught through PPT or lecture. And that seems to be where the bottom fell out.

Jacobite

Excellent point.

It’s not the military’s fault.

To put the Iraqi military’s ability in it’s simplest terms, Trash in, Trash out.

Just another Dirt Bag

2/17, Totally concur. WP is nonchalantly throwing the MNF-I and all OIF vets under this bus.

Question for all who were alive in the 70s: Did people really believe that we “lost” ‘Nam militarily? I mean, they got it, right?

Sparks

Just another Dirt Bag…The left, the hippies, the “usual anti-war suspects”, said we lost and were proud of it. The men who fought there…said we won every battle, though sometimes with heavy losses, but we did not lose the war. Washington decided to lose the war for us. That’s when it began, in Vietnam, the fighting of a war from the safety and knowledge vacuum in Washington, instead of leaving a war in the hands of field commanders. Leaders and men on the ground fought, bled and died to win. But when Washington calls the shots, the war is lost. Personally, we won. We did as ordered and fought well. But we could not overcome the directives from Saigon which came from DC. They hamstrung the military there in many ways and on many occasions.

vietnam war protestor aka uss liberty

You won the war that is why saigon is now Ho Chi Minh City! And you won in iraq that is why bagdad is about to be renamed Osama Bin Ladin City! Next kabul Mullah Omar City?

ArmyATC

Hey, shitbag. The troops won every battle. The politicians stabbed them in the back and lost the war.

Isnala

Wasn’t it your savior in chief Obama who called it a win and pulled out with out an SOFA, which would have had a stablizing affect similar to Germany after WWII?
But then again you never let real historical facts get in the way of your rants.

UpNorth

VWP, just for you, borrowing from A Proud Infidel, “FUCK YOU TO DEATH up the ass sideways with a red hot six feet long piece of railroad track and SHIT IN YOUR MOTHER’S FACE for raising such a sniveling snotnosed shit like you!!” Couldn’t have said it any better, it applies to you +100. Read it, embrace it, live it, asshole.

2/17 Air Cav

“Just STFU dirtball.”

That’s one of my favorie quotes. who said about whom and when.

A. 2/17 Air Cav to vietnam war protester today;

B. 2/17 Air Cav to vietnam war protester today;

C. 2/17 Air Cav to vietnam war protester today; or

D. 2/17 Air Cav to vietnam war protester today.

There is only one commenter on this blog who could get the answer wrong. In fact, he gets everything wrong so he necessarily guessed ‘E.’

Sparks

VWP…You are really getting close to hitting a nerve with me. Perhaps that is your whole intent here. But before you say another word about Vietnam, because you have never revealed your age and if you were even around then, you better stop and think of people like me, who lost good friends and watched good men die or be wounded for life. So stop the antics for a while and think hard before you say much more about Vietnam. Or for that matter, Iraq or Afghanistan. There are folks here younger than me from those wars and they take your ignorant, nonsensical rhetoric to heart as well. So I am making an appeal to you I guess. Think before you type. There is more at stake in what you write than you take the time to consider. One last thing, pray to the God you worship…we never meet.

OWB

Sparks, I think it was the consensus of the country at the time that we “lost” Viet Nam. That wasn’t really my view, but it took a few decades for me to hear anyone say what you just said, even my friends who were Viet Nam vets. All I heard was “It was a mistake,” and such sentiments. What I also saw and heard was dear friends who suffered greatly. I listened to their stories, helped them drink away the hurt, and acted as chauffer more times than I can remember.

What I did not know until later to be fact was that we won every battle. Wjen a friend said that to me around 20 years ago, it all made sense. That is when I developed a serious hatred for the American left. Not that I had any affection for them prior to that, but that knowledge put me over the top with them.

The American commie left with all their progressive stank-ass hippie friends should be held accountable for the damage they did to my generation of warriors.

Green Thumb

The Washington Post.

Whatever.

Hayabusa

“the expert Tom Ricks”

Hahahahahahahaha

Now that is some funny shit, right there.

Thanks, Fareed. I needed a good laugh on a Friday.

FatCircles0311

We should have colonized the fuck out of Iraq. That is the only way to effectively address the 12th century Islamic tribalism plaguing the region.

The military with their hands tied can only accomplish so much when back home their gains are being negated by politicians unwilling to state harsh truths about what we are really fighting against.

OIF/OEF vets did their part and none of them should ever question the nobility of what they did. You voluntarily confronted the greatest evil of the 21st century and generations from now will remember that when they are eventually forced to address it in their backyard because they thought it could be ignored.

vietnam war protestor aka uss liberty

Sir the play is over! Lafayette. Turn out the lights the partys over! Dandy Don Meredith. Hit the road jack! Ray Charles. Iraq still arabic for vietnam! And finally Uncle sam has got himself in a terrible jam way down younder in iraq land and soon afganistan! Thanks country joe.

Green Thumb

You sir, are a true gargler of balls.

vietnam war protestor aka uss liberty

Remember homophobes this is tah Not! Repressed homossexual blog! Is that what you did in the military call each other gay slurs? The fine gay troops in our military who are fighting and dying for our country don’t appreciate this. Me I think its funny.

Hondo

Then you obviously won’t object to being told to GFY. No homoerotic implication there – just a direct insult.

Please do so. Immediately. And repeatedly.

ArmyATC

He would have to pull his head out of his ass first.

B Woodman

With a pineapple. Top first.

A Proud Infidel®™

VWPissbucket, I would say SHIT IN YOUR MOTHER’S FACE, but I have heard that’s what she enjoys in between giving blowjobs to winos and crackheads behind abandoned buildings!

Pinto Nag

No VWP, the play isn’t over. The jihadists have all kinds of plans to take that baby on the road, and I’m sure they have a seat right up front just for you. And if they come to YOUR neighborhood, you will be sure to get tickets, because there won’t be anywhere left to run. Enjoy the performance, dumbass.

Blaster

+1

OWB

What was that screed about? I got something about VNpimp being a homophobe, a racist, and a general dumb ass, but was there a point in there somewhere?

Toasty Coastie

Intereting….

It’s always The Military and Law Enforcement’s fault when shyte hits the fan…So its “sooo ok” to blame us for all the World’s hurts and problems…

That is until they need us to help them, rescue them and make the World ok again.

Then we are the first one’s called up to duty.

Yeah…

Isnala

O’ ‘its Tommy this and Tommy that…’

vietnam war protestor aka uss liberty

We heard the same b.s. about vietnam if it fell the viet cong would be storming santa monica beach probably on surfboards! Fortunetly our good friends the iranians will be helping us out in … is it still bagdad and not Osama Bin Ladin City?

ArmyATC

“good friends the Iranians” Really? Last I heard the Iranians were helping to finance terrorists. They certainly won’t be moving into Iraq out of the goodness of their hearts. Are you simply stupid or are you a complete moron?

Toasty Coastie

@ vietnam war protestor aka uss liberty~

Please just stop already. No one here is interested in your nutty postings. If you are trying to offend and anger, you have succeeded. Not sure what prize you think you are entitled to, but really, give it a rest. You have made your point unclear and quite frankly, what ever it was supposed to be has been lost in your nonsensical rhetoric.

So please just go away if you can not bring yourself to act like an adult and engage in proper discourse. If you can’t be bothered to do either one, then perhaps it is time for you to make your way to the banned list.

This is the one and only time I will be civil to you and you can thank the heavy doses of medication I am on for that.

A Proud Infidel®

VWPissbucket, Toasty is recuperating right now, and once she has recovered, she’ll be back up at full throttle. Like the other Ladies of TAH, she’s a very sharp-clawed Lioness, and she’ll tear you up like a Lioness does to a prey animal! I know you’ll ignore my advice, you being the brain-damaged glue-sniffing inbred blithering idiot you are, and I’ll laugh at you every time TC and the other Ladies/Lionesses of TAH shred you without a smidgen of pity!

Hussar

Fact:

1) Bush bought this war. Iraq presented no threat against the US. He used 9/11 as a pretext to settle old scores against Saddam, and because Saddam was poised to start selling oil in Euros instead of dollars.

2) Saddam proved to be more effective, capable and most importantly willing, to combat militant Islam than the US.

So, while Obama screwed the pooch on the back end, the very fact that the US was there in the first place falls directly on the shoulders of Bush I and II.

OWB

No, actually it doesn’t. Terrorists are to blame for every bit of it.

Hussar

100% completely wrong in the case of Iraq.

9/11 Commission, declassified DOD documents, Senate Intelligence reports, and even Tenet himself have shown there was absolutely no Saddam-Al Qaeda tie. None. Zilch. Zero.

Unless you count Bin Laden trying to convince the Saudis to allow him and his muj to combat Iraqs invasion of Kuwait. Close pals, huh?

Saddam was secular. He was a Baathist and a socialist.

ObamaGirl

I agree with you about Bush 1 and 2.

OWB

If you don’t want to consider someone who used terror tactics a terrorist, then you are simply being willfully ignorant. It is actions, not political or religious affiliation, which defines one as a terrorist. Country of origin, gender, age, social standing, and a host of other characteristics also don’t matter. Just the level of intimidation tactics one is willing to use.

But you already knew that.

Hussar

All of that is correct, but still doesn’t apply to the lack of Saddam/Iraq-Al Qaeda connection.

OWB

So what? You seem to be the only for whom that is of any import.

Hussar

You claimed, in the case of Iraq, our invasion rested on the shoulders of terrorists.

That’s been proven to be incorrect.

A Proud Infidel®™

Fact: HUSSAR IS A BLITHERING IDIOT.

Blaster

You are correct SIR. He is

Remember the old claim that there were no WMD’s in Iraq that the left loves to throw out there?
Google Yellow Cake Uranium in Iraq and enjoy the fact that there was, or was soon to be WMDs in Iraq. President Bush being the honorable man that he is, never used this fact to defend himself. I could not have stayed quiet, but it does show his class.

OWB

Speaking of folks who create delusions to support wishful thinking, this Hussar clown has the art perfected.

No, Hussar, terrorists were and still are responsible for our presence in Iraq. Always were. Your claiming something else is not proof.

Hussar

My “claims” are based in fact, coming from the 9/11 Commission, Senate Intelligence Committee, CIA and DIA reports on the subject. All of which are out there for you to study,should you choose to do so. I would advise you do that, unless you subscribe to ignorance being bliss.

Your “claims” sound like a bunch of talking points, and are not based in fact.

ArmyATC

You might want to rethink your stance that the 9/11 Commission Report is gospel.

Old Trooper

Ya ever heard of Salman Pak?

Hussar

CIA and DIA established that was total BS.

Old Trooper

Yeah, total BS. That’s why known, wanted, terrorists were hiding out in Iraq with full knowledge and permission of the Iraqi government. Yeah, it was BS that Saddam was paying bounties to the families of suicide bombers. Yeah, there was nothing there. Total BS.

Hussar

Now you’re changing what you claimed…

You brought up Salman Pak as some sort of “evidence” of Saddam harboring terrorists, when the reality is Salman Pak was a known anti-terrorism, counterinsurgency training base. CIA, DIA, UN, the Brits, the French all confirmed this.

The claims on Muhammed Atta were debunked by both the US and the Czechs.

Abu Nidal was hospitalized in Iraq. Hardly there getting ready for more terrorism.

MEK had “bases” in Iraq, but they were a Communist movement dedicated to bringing down Islamic Iran.

There’s your “terrorism” in Iraq.

No, the Islamic terrorists didnt show up until the US made Iraq safe for them to come back to.

As for supporting the families of suicide bombers in Palestine…Yeah, the US has never supported less than stellar characters to achieve its geopolitical goals.

Green Thumb

Wow, dude.

Just wow.

OWB

Oh, you are so funny, Hussar! Your inaccuracies just keep getting better and better. We already knew that your reading comprehension is not good, but your ability to alter what others have said really shines in this post.

Don’t stop now. You are providing terrific entertainment for us all. Although many of us do try not to laugh too loudly at the mentally challenged, yours seems to be more willful than innate.

Sparks

Hussar…You still refuse to answer a simple question posed to you several times. Who and what are you? Meaning are you a veteran, and AD troop, a civilian? Are you old enough to remember Vietnam personally? Just answer the simple questions please. I am a veteran of the Army and Air Force and retired from the telecommunications industry. I served in Vietnam. There, that was simple and easy wasn’t it? Now, how about you? I mean if you want to add some credibility to your posts, there is the first step. It’s up to you how serious you choose to be taken, based on answering these questions. Your turn.

Hussar

First off, thanks for doing what you’ve done. My personal opinion may be that Vietnam was a stupid exercise in futility and had zero bearing on US security, but I still realize the personal sacrifice you made.

Second, my background means fuck and shit when it comes to stating fact. Do I have to be a meteorologist to say it was hot today? No.

Personally, as you seem like a good guy, I’d love to answer your question. However, due to my occupation, and the juvenile attitude of a few of the “tough ol’ grizzled BTDT good ol boys” here, I’d rather not give out one iota of PI for them to pounce on since they can’t seem to separate academic discourse from being butthurt that someone presents a different (and factual) opinion.

Sorry mate..Nothing personal, but thats that.

ArmyATC

You dismiss and degrade the experiences of those who’ve been there, done that. Did it ever occur to you that the “facts” you love to quote aren’t really the facts, and that those who have actually been there may know something you don’t? I know for a fact that the 9/11 commission and other groups have at least some of their “facts” wrong.

USMCE8Ret

You might want to reconsider your definition of what Sadaam was. “Secular”? “Socialist”? Where are you getting that shit from?

Hussar

Are you serious?

“Arab Socialist Ba’ath Party”

“Unity, liberty, socialism”

Pretty black and white there.

A Proud Infidel®

Hey you goat-humping shit-for-brains, Sadaam Hussein gave money to the families of suicide bombers as well as other support to terrorist outfits. That’s a fact, which along with truth and logic, is something you’re very allergic to!!

Hussar

If you’re implying that Saddam supporting them means he was some sort of radical Muslim, or Muslim at all,then I guess Reagan was Muslim as well.

That’s a reasonable conclusion using your “logic.”

A Proud Infidel®

Maybe it’s time for you to find a new drug dealer, Hussan, it’s obvious that you’ve been smoking some bad hashish! That, or you’ve been sniffing glue with VWPissbucket in his Mommy’s basement!

ArmyATC

You might want to rethink that also. Hussein’s Ba’ath Party was modeled after National Socialism, which we all know wasn’t socialist.

Hussar

I’m going to reply to tow of your posts here, since I can’t for some reason to your first one. You wrote:

“ArmyATC says:
June 14, 2014 at 12:42 pm
You might want to rethink your stance that the 9/11 Commission Report is gospel.”

Of course I agree. You never take one report and treat it as gospel. But when all the other investigations corroborate each other…….

As for your second point on socialism, maybe we splitting hairs now. Hitler cloaked himself in socialism/volkish populism when it suited him, while doing what the wealthy Junker class (which included command staff, industrialists and other wealthy businessmen) wanted, because that’s politics.

Saddam did the same. He “put on” Islam when he thought it served his own interests, while never being a Muslim. There was nothing about his “version” of the Ba’ath Party being religious. Nada.

We also saw this with Qadaffi. Libya was a secular nation, until the US brought democracy and handed it over to radical Islam. Just like in Iraq.

ArmyATC

And Hussein put on socialism when it suited his goals. To say that the Ba’ath Party was a socialist organization is wrong.

ArmyATC

Almost forgot. The same goes for the others you mentioned. I know they were all wrong on one very important point.

2/17 Air Cav

Stop the presses! Hussar has gifted us with his Sgt Joe Friday approach to all matters great and small. (Jack Webb, Hussar, was a Marine in WWII and later played Joe Friday on the TV show Dragnet.) So, you are what? A Veteran? Active duty? NG? Reservist? Civilian now and always? I’ve asked this of you a number of times now but, for some reason, you have not answered. Or did I miss your reply? What are the facts? By the way, I noticed your absence and appreciated it. I figured that you were taking finals.

UpNorth

11a.m. and Hussar is still MIA, AirCAv. Maybe he’s trying to gin up a resumé? Or, the cops raided the IVAW crash pad yet again.

ArmyATC

Only when that militant Islam encroached on his territory.

A Proud Infidel®

Hussar, b.Hussein 0bama & Company’s rapid pullouts are to blame for this mess, and history proves it. FACT: Fanatical Nazis known as “Wolfhounds” carried out attacks against Allied Forces for at least a few years after Germany surrendered in WWII. After conquering an enemy, occupation afterward is a necessity. I’m an OEF Vet, I’ve been there and done that in harm’s way, and I saw plenty of successes over there. It’s you and your ilk that want to pull the plug, and you’ll be screaming for usWarriors to come to your rescue the next time the SHTF due to another mess you and your ilk will cause.

Hussar

For starters, the Nazi guerrillas were “Werewolves”, not “Wolfhounds.”

The idea of them, operationally, is almost nil. Almost all the claims attributed to them have been debunked.

As for the rest of your post…Doesn’t even rate a response.

A Proud Infidel®

I’ve been there and done that in the Middle East, you’re welcome, you sniveling ingrate! You’re the type who will talk shit here on the Internet because you don’t have the balls to say that to a Vet’s face. Your screen name sounds Middle Eastern, thus I say to you, GO CARBOMB YOURSELF, YOU GOAT MOLESTER!!

ObamaGirl

Preisdent Obama is in a no win situation, everyone is being way to hard on him.

UpNorth

Especially Reggie Love. That damn IRS is making it hard on him, the guy who flew the people out of Benghazi are making it hard on him.
Why, it got so bad, the poor dear had to fly off to Palm Springs for a fund-raiser and golf.

ArmyATC

Maybe if your messiah wasn’t such a self serving, narcissistic, imperious asshole who ignores the Constitution and breaks the law whenever he chooses, people wouldn’t be so hard on him.

Green Thumb

It is a situation he put himself in.

Others see his weaknesses and are taking what they can.

Look around. It is all over. From free welfare checks at home to conflict and land grabs all over the world.

Wake up, little girl.

Sparks

ObamaGirl…If you check into it, I am sure, like Clinton, Obama is always looking for a good intern to “break in”.

2/17 Air Cav

By way of explanation, Hussar is a smug SOB who came here and talked very rudely to some of our regulars. This is my beef with him. He has a wonderful self image–you know the type (e.g., Bateman) but it doesn’t match the image others perceive of him. He is a petty annoyance but, unlike the other young visitors to this site (and I strongly suspect he’s a kid) he doesn’t know how to conduct himself properly among his elders and his superiors. I can see him yelling at Cook: “Take this back! It’s not the way I like!” as Mumsy cautions him not to yell at the dinner table.

Toasty Coastie

He ever tried that with me he’d get a face full of SOS and not the food type.

You never ever mess with the cook.

vietnam war protestor aka uss liberty

hussar you attack those who sent you to die johnson macnamara bush cheney ect. they attack you and threaten you. If you attack those who wanted you not to go die for nothing they applaud you.

Blaster

I must not have drank enough to understand what you just said.

I’ll have to read it again later.

Well,,,, Maybe not

A Proud Infidel®

Blaster, VWPissbucket is little more than an incoherent glue sniffer with brain damage, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he/it was akin to Psul, Bernath, DullASS, or Giduck! The best part of him ran down his Momma’s leg and stained the wino puke-covered pavement one night behind an abandoned building!

Blaster

Haha.

It’s been a long time since I’ve heard that. Brings back childhood memories .

ArmyATC

That there’s authentic stank ass hippy gibberish. Go smoke another bowl, moron.

ArmyATC

VWP, you assume it was “all for nothing.” You haven’t the insight and experiences of those who actually had the courage to go down range and fight for their country.

Delilah T.

VWpussypants, if you can’t write a coherent sentence, then stop posting drivel.

It was NOT the US embassy in that picture from April 1975. That helicopter was on the roof of a hotel in Saigon.

LBJ drove us FURTHER into war in Vietnam to feed his effing ego and nothing else. Nixon got us OUT of Vietnam. Neither Bush I nor Bush II is responsible for the AQ/Taliban’s rise to their current level. The Taliban were allowed into Afghanistan when the Soviet Union invaded that country and spent 10 years there trying to seize control. That bit of miscalculation by the Soviets cost them billions financially and thousands of Soviets citiznes lives, and brought an end to the USSR. The dissolutioni of the politburo by Mikhail Gorbachev was prefaced by his public announcement that the Soviet Union was bankrupt.

Got that part, imbecile?

If you had been conscious instead of stoned out of your mind, you’d know that.

And, Hussar, you can read and misinterpret documents all you like, but it was state-sponsored terrorism by Saddam Hussein and a land grab for Kuwait’s seaports that started the current mess in the Middle East. It simply blew up from there. Maybe if you had been conscious back then, you might have been able to watch US troops liberate Kuwait on CNN and C-SPAN, like I did. You might have even seen the night vision broadcasts of Iraqis firing artillery at an empty night sky, like I did. And you might have spent some time watching while a couple of people with dashcams drove through the empty streets of Tel Aviv while air raid sirens were going off

Delilah T.

Did not get to finish my sentence. To continue: And you might have spent some time watching while a couple of people with dashcams drove through the empty streets of Tel Aviv while air raid sirens were going off, because that city was under attack by Saddam Hussein. People were in bomb shelters. They knew what was coming. You might have watched the night vision brodacasts, as I did, of Iraqis firing artillery at the night sky with no target. You might also have had a clearer picture of what was actually going on, because C-SPAN broadcast Kuwait AND Iraq 24 hours a day. They showed on poignant moment when some US troops came across a few starving men in the desert, freezing to death, with a half cup of rice a day for rations, and they were there, not out of loyalty to Saddam Hussein, but because he threatened to kill their families if they didn’t go fight for him. No terrorism? Those men were later shot by Saddan;s firing squads. Hussar, you can read and misunderstand all the documents you want to, but you have not explained the discovery, SHOWN ON TV during a news broadcast of that war, of a high-altitude long-range gun built for Saddam Hussein by Gerald Bull. You have not explained the repeated delays in allowing UN inspectors to enter Iraq to inspect Saddam’s weapons facilities, nor have you explained the shipments of metal tubing suitable for use in building missiles to Iraq before OIF. No terrorism? Saddam Hussein terrorized and murdered Iraqis for the hell of it. His pervert son Muday (?sp) forced two Olympic athletes to strip naked and have sex with each other right in front of him. No terrorism? Saddam Hussein tested is chemical weapons on the Kurds. These things were all reported in the news, there were videos galore of it. Saddam Hussein engaged in state-sponsored terrorism, not because he had any agenda, but becase he could, you jackass. You’re so FULL of crap, you wouldn’t know a terrorist if one walked up and threw a cup of hot… Read more »

Sparks

Hussar if you’re still following the thread, here you go again from my post above and other posters I might add.

You still refuse to answer a simple question posed to you several times. Who and what are you? Meaning are you a veteran, and AD troop, a civilian? Are you old enough to remember Vietnam personally? Just answer the simple questions please. I am a veteran of the Army and Air Force and retired from the telecommunications industry. I served in Vietnam. There, that was simple and easy wasn’t it? Now, how about you? I mean if you want to add some credibility to your posts, there is the first step. It’s up to you how serious you choose to be taken, based on answering these questions. Your turn.

ArmyATC

I doubt he’ll answer. He seems to think that first hand experience and knowledge is trumped by the “facts” he’s read. By dismissing those who’ve actually BTDT, he loses a valuable source of information. He fails to realize that what one has done, in this case deployed with the military, gives one a special insight into the world he’s only read about. To follow his logic a book written by a civilian about cops is more authoritative than one who has actually been a cop.

Hussar

I’ve answered.

And you’re assuming I don’t have first hand knowledge and experience.

Assuming incorrectly I might add.

So far no one has weighed in with first hand experience or knowledge. All a bunch of dick wagging, insults, threats, blah blah blah. Which is fine because I mean, no one here would back that up for one, and two I’ve been given worse by much, much better. Not to mention it’s a sure sign of a weak position when one has to resort to BS, but whatever.

Either way, this has becoming very boring. I expected more out of this place, but most of you sound like a bunch of leftist posters on DU as far as (in)ability to use logic or reason, partisan thinking process, and just general ignorance. I’m actually embarrassed for a lot of the posters here.

Anyway, good luck. Stay safe.

2/17 Air Cav

Hussar. Mumsy and Dudsy may buy your crap and there may be some slow thinkers who are actually intimidated by your pretended intellectual prowess and selective, if distorted, fact-based argument. But it doesn’t work here. You are simply full of shit and to be dismissed out of hand. And be nicer to Cook, will you mate? He, unlike you, actually contributes something worthwhile to the world.

2/17 Air Cav

Hussar must be a secret squirrel, if not THE secret squirrel. He can’t say whether he is a civilian who has never served, a Veteran, or is AD, NG, or a reservist. That’s some seriously secret shit right there. He’s concerned for the follow-up questions, you see, if he were to claim any military service. Or so he says. If he’s a civilian and always has been, then he’d say so, right? But if he were and wanted others to think otherwise, he wouldn’t. Instead, he gets to think that he’s super-secret important military status would be somehow jeopardized or compromised by saying, “I’m AD” or, “Yes, I am a Veteran.” He uses words such as “cheers” and “mate.” Maybe he—or SHE—is in Her Majesty’s Secret Service. Yeah, that could be it and would explain his/her pomposity as well. Whatever. I don’t care. My only interest is in seeing him or her go away. Until then, I will keep hammering at the twerp.

Hussar

You know, I’ve considered 5 or 6 different responses to your latest…I don’t know….14 year old girl, emotional based reaction…but every time I end up with the same conclusion: You just don’t rate.

A Proud Infidel®™

Hussar, my bet is that you’re just some smug little college puke getting a comfy free ride on your Mommy & Daddy’s money. Your smugness and arrogance says it all to me, BOY!

2/17 Air Cav

Hussar. It is gratifying to learn that you took precious time away from your super-secret understakings to consider responding. In the minute you took to write your response saying that you were not responding, you could have accomplished a few things. For one, you could have hit the restart button on your association here by apologizing for being a pompous ass. For another, you could have answered the question–now posed a dozen or so times–as to your military background, if any. You chose to do neither and, instead, prolonged the stupid. It’s time to change your binky.