Starbucks & guns
The other day, Starbucks CEO, Howard Schultz, asked his customers to refrain from bringing their guns into his shops, and of course, a furor immediately started. I respect Mr Schultz’ property rights and admit that it’s his prerogative whether he wants to let armed people into his places of business or not. The same way I respect Denny’s gun ban – I just don’t go to Denny’s anymore. But, you know that us pro-gun people share some of the blame for Schultz’ decision. While it was fine to support their open-carry policy before this week, some pro-gun people would use Starbucks as a rally point for our cause, and I’m sure that wasn’t especially good for business. And I could hardly keep up with whether I was supposed to support or boycott Starbucks on a given day because conservatives attacked Schultz when he said he supported gay marriage recently.
I’m not a big fan of open carry, anyway – yeah, I know it’s your constitutional right to carry your gun outside your pants for the world to see, but it’s also my right to feel uncomfortable around someone who hasn’t bothered to go through the background checks for a concealed weapons permit. And mostly, anymore, people who open carry are just trying to make a political statement, and it has nothing to do with personal protection.
To his credit, Mr Schultz just asked customers to stop, so he could remove his business from the center of the controversy. I respect that. I mean, I don’t know how much my respect will impact his decisions or his business since the nearest Starbucks is 60 miles from my house, and I have, you know, a coffeepot in my kitchen. But, I don’t fault him for the decision at all.
The extremes of both sides of the gun discussion can be equally assholish. If you have a CCW permit, no one is going to know whether you have a gun or not – you know, if your intention is really protection.
Category: Guns
Michael,
Now that I have your attention, have YOU ever carried a weapon for a living?
I will bet YOU never have.
Therefore, you are an attention whore.
That is all!
“Hey Michael …. come here. Yes you … a little closer … closer …. FUCK YOU” Yeah, your mama too, asshole. Remember what I wrote about unfounded assumptions? We know it at least makes an ass out of you. Jackasses like you just love to wag your tongue with no earthly idea who or what you’re talking about. I could follow your lead and draw the assumption, based on the few posts of yours that I’ve seen that you’re an arrogant, ignorant jerk who wets his panties when people disagree with him. Basically a small mind with a huge ego. But I won’t do that without knowing you better, It isn’t fair or right to do so.
That is all!!!
Blah, blah, blah, blah. Thats what I got from your rant there Michael. Let me break it down for you, the vast majority of the people I saw who were openly carrying at Starbucks were there to make a political point. Hell, of the few I actually stopped to talk to there was one guy ,ONE, who said that he regularly open carried. The rest, yeah they stated they were doing this to make a statement to the anti gunners and to show appreciation to Starbucks for supporting their 2A rights. If you tell me the only reason that you decided to open carry is to make a political statement, Im going to refer to you as a moron or an idiot too.
“I’m not a big fan of open carry, anyway – yeah, I know it’s your constitutional right to carry your gun outside your pants for the world to see, but it’s also my right to feel uncomfortable around someone who hasn’t bothered to go through the background checks for a concealed weapons permit. And mostly, anymore, people who open carry are just trying to make a political statement, and it has nothing to do with personal protection.”
Question, John: I already had to go through a background check just to get the damn gun, isn’t that enough?
Out here it’s $229 for the class, plus tax, and another $100 for the license. That’s $329 plus tax which comes out to just under $350 – I don’t know a lot of average people that have that to shell out these days, especially if you have kids.
So maybe if they didn’t make it so expensive in order to keep the average person from being able to get it, more people would sign up.
@100. It is perfectly legal to wear a tee shirt with 3 or 4 inch letters that convey all sorts of nasty messages. Decent and reasonable people don’t do that. In other words, something may be perfectly legal, constitutional, and still be an affront to some peoples’ sensibilities. In many places, open carrying bothers people and draws attention to the carrier. one can say, “Tough! It’s legal” and one would be legally correct and, at the same time, wrong to be indifferent to others.
“. . .to feel uncomfortable around someone who hasn’t bothered to go through the background checks for a concealed weapons permit . . .”
Given the ever-increasing reports of cops who are (a) untrained (b)unreliable (c)given passes for criminal behavior that would see you placed under the jail, how can you trust any cop who open carries? Which, unless they’re undercover or in plain clothes, is all the rest of them . . .
Peruse the Statistical Rports (nation-wide) available at the National Police Misconduct Database (http://www.policemisconduct.net/). All reports are provided and verified by police agencies and/or the FBI Crime Statistics Bureau.
Open carry or not, the objective is to know what you’re doing with a weapon. Apparently, too many do not.
Personally I open carry where allowed because my state (TN) denied my CCW because I receive monetary assistance for a mental illness (PTSD). If the state I’m in doesn’t support open carry then I take my X2 taser since the.majority of states do not see it as a firearm and therefore it is exempt from their laws.
Michael … so far you are dead wrong on 95 % … I am quite arrogant and have earned the right to be such.
And for you … talk about calling the kettle black!
WOW … you got me figured out!
As a retired military man and former LEO, who still works in the business, I am betting (already know) based on your rants above … You never served a day in the military or as a LEO.
If you had, you would have defended that!
Therefore, my previous assertion is a valid one – ATTENTION WHORE!
One other thing – KMRIA!
ARobert…I don’t think I denied that many carry openly for political reasons. Many do. But many don’t. People carry openly for a number of reasons to make a political statement being just one. But to attempt to lump all who carry in that manner in the same boat is just plain silly. As I stated earlier, I carry openly for one reason and one only. It has nothing to do with a political statement. I know others, many others, who carry openly for non-political reasons.
MCPO NYC USN (Ret.) Earned the right to be arrogant? No, no one has earned the right. It’s a character flaw from a bruised and fragile ego. As for having you figured out, not hardly, nor do I care to. Because it seems that you have reading comprehension problems I’ll spell it out as simply as I can. I do not know you therefore I don’t make assumptions based on a few posts. See how that works? Based on your rants I could easily say that you are a liar and never served a day in your life. There again, I don’t know you so will refrain from making half-assed and stupid assumptions as you are wont to do. Now seeing that you are so quick to judge. How about you put your money where your big mouth is? You say you’d bet I never served a single day in my life. I’ll take you up on that. I have $1,000 that says you’re wrong. So put up or shut up, jackass.
Nothing further Your Honor, the prosecution rests its case!
As I thought. MCPO NYC USN (Ret.) is just another big mouth with nothing too back it up. Another jerk bites the dust.
@112 and @113
Are we done now?
Michelle,
Clearly, you have way too much time on your hands.
If you think for one moment you believe that you can walk in here and spout off at anyone, attempt to joust or otherwise attempt to be pithy or intelligent … You are wrong.
For the most part we here have all been vetted. Send your DD-214 or certificate of graduation from a certified LE academy to the most Honorable Jonn who runs this site.
If that does not suit your fancy send it to: admin@kmria.com
Either way I really don’t care what you think, considering your attempt to sound far more intelligent and informed than you actually are.
BTW … 1000 k … I just spent that on beer, Harley repairs and a brand new concealed carry holster.
@ Old Sarge … pretty much done now. Sorry for the distraction from the real topic … as we were saying …
#83 PavePusher, Sorry for the delayed response. As stated in my post, this was in the Richmond, VA area–which is probably a bit more built-up than the majority of areas you carry in. In western parts of VA I’d rarely encounter problems. As for my fear of having my gun taken, that was just that, a fear that may or may be ungrounded, but one which I cured by carrying concealed. I used to be that guy who got self-righteous when it came to cops hassling me over my right to carry. Maturity, wisdom, and no small amount of paranoia have taken me down a different path than some open-carry advocates. Fifteen years ago I’d be one of the most vocal on here arguing in favor of OC. Now, not so much. Some areas of the US are more receptive to seeing armed citizens than others. In my experience, the more urban the area, the less friendly they are when it comes to guns in public. I’m all for exercising rights, but I’m also for letting common sense take precedence over making a statement. If you feel the need (or even just the urge) to carry open in an area where few eyebrows will be raised, go for it. I used to go one step further when I had a friend who lived in a drug-infested and crime-ridden part of Southside Richmond–I’d not only have my sidearm, but would also make a show of popping the trunk and walking into the house with my AR or a shotgun. Funny, but no police were called in those areas. In retrospect, there was little to no need for me to open carry in the majority of places I did back then, but since I had no other option (being too young for a CCW at first) I took what I could get. To each his own, but despite (or perhaps because of) my own misadventures in OC, I’ll just shake my head and keep walking when I see an armed guy on the sidewalk being waylaid by police; similarly, I’ll chuckle to… Read more »
Bottom line, boys and girls–any private business has the same right to tell me not to bring a weapon into their place of business as I have to not patronize them.
See? So simple.
MCPO NYC USN (Ret.)Well, Sugar. I really don’t give a lovely fuck what you think. You opened your big mouth and put your foot squarely in it. You are neither an honorable nor honest person. You are nothing more than a big mouthed bully and they are cowards.
“If you think for one moment you believe that you can walk in here and spout off at anyone, attempt to joust or otherwise attempt to be pithy or intelligent … You are wrong.”
Guess what shithead. I did it. Now roll around on the ground and throw a tantrum. You want to see my 214? Like I posted earlier, it’ll cost you. I would have been glad to show it to anyone who asked until you decided to be an ass.
To everyone else. I apologize for the distraction. I’m through with that jackass now.
Michelle,
Take 2 Mydol and go to bed!
Not rolling around!
You came here the joust …
You got it …
No winners …
Again, 2 Mydol may help you with your monthly.
Fair well Michelle!
Oh … one other thing.
Read what you said and my responses again and you will find that you deserved every key stroke.
Still can’t believe you ever spent a day in the military or as a LEO!
GOOD NIGHT!
Well, well, well. Looks like someone rolled in like a bigshot and was told to go pound sand by the people he insulted from the get go, and he (Michael) didn’t like that.
OK, mike the small and useless, if you pick a fight with anyone here for no reason other than you think you can, you will get back what you gave out in spades. You started it. You got told off, and you didn’t like that?
Tough bananas! You started the fight. You have a right to an opinion, but you don’t have the right to be rude, sport. So if you don’t being told off, then don’t start a fight by acting like an asshole.
‘Cause right now, my girlie opinion of you is that you’re an asshole and the only attention whore on this thread.
Personally, I don’t like the idea of open carrying. Mind you, I am not opposed to it, only that I don’t like the idea of it.
If the shite hits the fan, then the first person in the crosshairs is the person wearing a rifle over their shoulder. Most of the people who open carry like that do so with their weapon “chow-slung.”
I prefer to keep my little hand-cannon tucked away where nobody can see it until it is too late. When I do open-carry it, it is in a nondescript thigh-strap holster. Besides the range, I have only worn it to a couple of rallies in Salem (the State Capitol).
Otherwise, I prefer to just sit in the back and allow the idiots with the big guns to take all the attention of the wolves that are up to no good.
Master Chief, I doubt that said mike the small and useless ever spent a day doing anything for anyone but himself.
Besides, I think I could take him. I’m 5’2″ tall. I doubt he’s much bigger than I am. Piece of cake.
1000 dollars says EX-PH2 can kick his ass while he is in open carry mode!
Night … I had a long week defending the Homeland!
There are required trainings before the exercise of other rights already. Free Speech for example. In this country, all children are required to be educated, at a minimum until the age of 16.
125,
However, if one drops out of junior high, they do not lose their rights under the 1st Amendment.
Exercising a right is one thing. Responsibly exercising a right is something completely different.
I don’t walk around talking shit, even though I could. I show respect and use my right responsibly. Likewise, I do not walk around carrying an elephant gun strapped to my ass like a mid-life crisis penis-mobile.
Colion Noir nails this, as usual.
Mike, welcome to the neighborhood now stop being an ass. You will find that you are free to state your opinion if you stop with the “mine is bigger” crap.
As to open carry, can anyone explain to me the purpose behind open carry of a long gun in an urban setting other than saying “look at me”?
Further, if you are open carrying and some LEO asks you for some id, just show it to him and don’t make an assclowb out of yourself. You will likely find yourself in jail on some charge which should probably be criminal stupidity. You may have the right to carry, but they have a duty to police so comply. Likely someone called you in and they need to clear the call.
Also, as my mother says, yor right to swing your arm stops short of the place where your arm meets my face. Thus, if someone asks that you not carry on their property, either comply or leave their property. It is just good manners.
@127 – Flagwaver: penis-mobile?
O. M. G.!!!! I am SO stealing that!!!!
OK… Several points
1: The Bill of Rights protects you from the Government. It has no bearing on a private property owner. I can demand you wear a pink tie dyed half t shirt to drink my coffee. Refuse and I have every right to direct you to leave my establishment. Stupid? Sure, but it’s my place my rules. The best way to fight stupid rules promulgated by business owners is to deny them your patronage. Once you are told to leave a business by the owner or designated representitve of that business, you MUST leave, or the business owner can have you arrested for trespassing. Some States give that same authority to posted signs, some do not YMMV.
2; Open vs concealed carry. I carry at all times when it is (a) lawful to do so, and (b) not prohibited by my employer. I mostly carry concealed for much the same reasons as noted above. I prefer to be the surprise at the party. That said, I have occasionally open carried when circumstances made it the best choice (open carry or do without). In GA, you must have a Georgia Weapons License to do either.
3: Manditory training to own/carry a firearm. Really??? I call bullshit on this one. Do I advocate obtaining training?? Absolutely! Mandating training to exercise a God given Right? Blow me. The NYPD trains the shit out of their officers and they STILL shoot bystanders. A 2 or 4 hour CCW training course is NOT going to make you appreciably better at gun safety and marksmanship. Also, who’s going to pay for my “mandatory” training? I will happily enroll in a free course ( one of our local Sheriffs offers one) but I object being told I must pay for training YOU think I need. You want me to have it? Put your money where your mouth is.
DeniseWilliams: your argument is both inaccurate and illogical. A completely uneducated and illiterate individual has exactly the same Constitutional right to speak his/her mind as anyone else. No governmental approval is required before they may do so.
Bubblehead Ray is correct. If something is truly a right, then no permit is required for exercise of same by those who are of legal age. A “right” that requires a permit before someone who has attained the age of legal majority can exercise same is not a “right” at all. Rather, it is a discretionary grant of authority by the government.
Denise:
You can be a complete failure as a student and still run your mouth. Look at all the actors and musicians and rappers who flagrantly do so: not much sense and education there.
@125 – Really? I must have missed that little tidbit in the U.S. Bill of Rights, unless you’re confused. Where exactly does it state youhave to be 16 before you can exercise your right to free speech? By the way, this is where I’m referencing … http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html
There are required trainings before the exercise of other rights already. Free Speech for example. In this country, all children are required to be educated, at a minimum until the age of 16.
Bubblehead Ray, (#131) actually, the NYCPD does NOT “train the shit out of their officers”. And that’s their main problem.
http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/MG717.html
@#135. Pave.
Perhaps, but you have to concede they receive far more training than would be required of a civilian CCW license holder. If you change the language from “mandatory firearms training for CCW licensure” to “mandatory civics training for voters” how many people do you think would bitch?
I believe both would benefit the individual and the Nation, but I disagree with mandating either.
@131: Nope. The end of point #3 you say that the NYPD trains the shit out of their people, but that’s not the case. Same with almost every LEO out there. I train as much, or more, than most LEOs, but the “perception” by the public is that if you have a badge and uniform (doesn’t matter if LEO or security guard, because you’re rockin’ the badge and uniform, which means more. I know, I wore the badge and uniform of a security guard for a short time and I open carried everywhere I went and no one gave it a second thought, because I had a badge and uniform), you must be much more competent with a firearm than everyone else, therefore, people are more safe with that LEO or security guard carrying than if john q public is carrying. I sent Jonn a story out of my state, a while back, that he put up where a cop shot another cop AT THE GUN RANGE!