SGM Teresa King fights back for job
The first female commandant of the drill sergeant academy at Fort Jackson, SCM Teresa King is taking legal action to get her job restored, according to the Stars & Stripes/Associated Press. We talked about it here, and the conversation sparks up every now and again over there.
Command Sgt. Maj. Teresa King still does not know what exactly her superiors were investigating when they suspended her Nov. 29, according to her attorney, James Smith. He said the Army has declined to say specifically what it was looking into, beyond a general statement that it involved her conduct.
Smith on Monday filed a legal complaint with the Army against two of King’s superiors, and wants to have King reinstated to her position. Smith is also asking South Carolina’s two senior members of Congress, Sen. Lindsey Graham and Rep. James Clyburn, for a congressional probe of King’s treatment.
Army officials said they wanted to study the complaint first before commenting.
I can understand that she wants answers, but, I doubt that I’d try to get my job back if it meant working for the same people who fired me. Once Big Army sets their sights on you, you can’t get out of range fast enough.
[King’s deputy, SGM Robert Maggard] said that even though only one former commandant of the drill sergeant school out of about a half dozen had been deployed to a combat zone in the past, much was made of the fact that King had not been deployed in combat. Those who serve in a combat zone are allowed to put a special patch on their uniform.
Well, when you’re training the people who are training other people to go to war, it seems to me that she should have nearly broke her legs getting to a combat assignment. I’m not a big fan of sergeant majors anyway, but one who sits out more than ten years of combat in the world is kind of suspicious. that’s one reason they need to get rid of that “staff sergeant major” bullshit. lead or get out of the way.
Category: Military issues
Much Agreed. HOW can you NOT have deployed if you enlisted at any time before 2008? (I say 2008 because that’s when the drawdown started taking place in Iraq and it sometimes takes 3 or 4 years for a unit to hit a deployment rotation) If you’ve been in the Army before 2008, you should have deployed at the very least ONCE.
I would be frickin’ ashamed if I was a CSM and was a Staff-Weenie who had never spent time in the Sandbox. Christ, Iraq lasted 9 years! A-stan has been going on for 10!!!
Yeah-there were way too many opportunities to get a deployment if you really wanted one over the past few years. I know that some reservists were supposedly blocked from deployment (I was told by my ANCOC instructors that the Reserve boss put a block on any instructors deploying, which was why neither of the E-7s who taught that class had combat patches), but an active duty E-9 could have found a way.
Too many of us deployed several times, and to look around and see slick sleeved senior NCOs is hard to take.
It probably doesn’t help that the only degrees she holds are from known diploma mills. How she ever got promoted with that background is beyond me. I wish I had known when I was in that I could just pay to make staff sergeant.
I used to be all about the combat patch stuff too, until I got one and then I realized, it was just another thing I had to remember to put on my uniform.
I “LOVED” going through MOB station training and being told “you will need to know this when you get to Iraq” by trainers that had clearly not been deployed ever.
So she filed a legal complaint while the investigation is ongoing, and she doesn’t even know what she’s ultimately filing against?
The investigation itself can restore her back to her position, if she’s found to be innocent of whatever charges they’re looking into.
Real smart….
“…only one former commandant of the drill sergeant school out of about a half dozen had been deployed to a combat zone in the past…”
This is the problem. Not whether on not one SGM had a combat patch.
When 9-11 happened, we had people in our Guard unit tripping over each other trying to get into other jobs where they’d not deploy. (Mess Kit Repair units have a high precentage of call ups these days). A few got into teaching down in Southern AZ at a fort near the border. They never deployed. After my second deployment (I count Bosnia as a deployment even though it was FUN) I ran into them…and tried to keep my mouth shut. But…they had to act like they knew whatthefuck they were talking about because they’d been training people for a few years. I finally told them a few things that they had been training were useless or just wrong in the real world.
Then they kept going…finally, I spoke up and asked: “How in the fu– can you traing people going to wars now when you’ve never been? You have no credibilty…volunteer to go on one deployment at least.”
They almost cried. I guess we’re not friends anymore because they never called anymore.
How could a SGM at any school not have deployed?
In my time, I never could figure out what a SGM was for except to harass and annoy the troops. I only had a few that didn’t bother the crap out of me and just get in the way.
CSM no slack was not very well liked to say the least. I think she was seen more as a do as I say not as I do leader. Too much drinking and screwing around I guess catches up with you.
As far as the deployment…kinda one of those deals if you want to go bad enough you could have went. There have been a lot of people some were in the right places at the right times to not get deployed. Just enough to leave a bad taste in your mouth when you go on a deployment and you see the same person somehow miss out on several.
Typical REMF.
Sure as hell can talk the talk, but the walk……..
I can see both sides of the fence, although since I do not personally know her or the situation I have to fall back on my experiences while I was active duty. I was one of the first active duty deployed for Desert Storm and did not return until most others already returned to their original bases. During that time period she would have been a young NCO; and it was a crap shoot back then if you did or did not deploy. Granted she may have had help not deploying for this second war on terror although her job skills might have been needed more stateside. My father was a Senior Drill at Jackson during the Vietnam War abd had three tours to that county alone and two to Korea. While its rare that her number not come up it is possible. I tend to agree with the story; its more of a Boys Club and Women are not invited to join. With that said again its my going on the political games in the senior NCO ranks and really who you know. She will be lucky to actually find out why they dismissed her; although I doubt this will ever happen.
Top I have a very strong feeling she knows why she was dismissed. Having said that I have a feeling that if she were a male CSM it may have been overlooked, or she may have just been offered the chance to retire. I just don’t think she is taking it. I have a friend or two at Jackson who have said her drinking and relationships are known. Now like I said she may have it in her head that because she is a female a bigger deal is being made, but who is to know.
She sought help from Lindsay Grahamnesty? That’s bad enough, but James Clyburn? Seriously? The guy who urged Baracka to rule by Executive Order? Well, that’s pretty much what he’s doing. Maybe Clyburn can get him to issue an E.O. to reinstate King.
Command Sgt. Maj. Teresa King … COMMAND FAIL … Loss of Confidence … Nothing More to Say …. File as many suits as you want former Command Sgt. Maj. Teresa King … it not going to help. Oh .. it will help. You will learn how much dirt they have on you. Some people just don’t know when the game is over!
@Just Plain Jason, if she were a male she would have never been in the commandant of the school.
I agree with Jonn, I have little use for CSMs, especially those are Postal MOS’s who came in the Army in 1981 and somehow never managed to serve on a deployment.
IMHO she should have never been appointed to the post.
Cash I am not disagreeing, I just wish the military would get back to appointing good not looks good. Looking at SMA…
My ADOS job has me working with a whole bunch of soldiers who are light on the right. Officers and seniors NCO’s mostly, and their excuse is that they are in jobs that don’t get deployed-public affairs, family services, ect.
But anyone in charge of training new soldiers should have some deployment time, plain and simple.
A couple of years ago, the PCC for the Reserves at Leavenworth contained an admonition: don’t pick on the Slick-sleeves.
My response was then and is now: fuck ’em.
The only reason the Slick-sleeves aren’t whining like their Vietnam-era Veteran counterparts is Congress made the bennies applicable to all, regardless of location of service. Vietnam I can rationalize: 2 years of service, and sent to Germany, or Korea – no problem. But these days? Fuck ’em.
Now that the drawdown is starting, the slick-sleeves are coming back into power. Most NCOs were busy deploying or preparing for deployments and accepting the hit to our career progression due to lost chances for schools and certain assignments. And the slick-sleeves were busy hiding out and sharpening their knives. Now it’s thanks for your service, but you’ve been too busy fighting wars and there’s no place for you in the new Army.
I was a medical reclass from Cav Scout to MI. I remember sticking out at Huachuca for having a combat patch in 03. Now when I go back, I see there are two camps. The NCOs that deployed alot and the NCOs that did one deployment to get a patch or no deployments and spent the rest of their career hiding out. Guess who’s going to be running things in 5 years? Example: An unnamed NCO at Huachuca who was senior SGL for years then did a single 6 month deployment and came back to take over as the SGL 1SG. Nobody should be allowed to spend that much time at the schoolhouse during a war, much less be allowed to have greater influence on training doctrine and NCO education. And now that the 1SG course is gone, the various NCOES commadants and SGLs get to pick which limited amount of classes from the 1SGs course make it into SLC. I’ve heard slick-sleeve NCOES SGLs tell SSGs that they don’t need to be a leader to be an NCO, they just need to make sure they get a degree and goto the right schools. Welcome back to the Army of the 90’s..
JM, a SMA that has one deployment who seems more concerned with tattoos than soldier care issues. I have heard stories of commands targeting soldiers with profiles related to combat injuries, and one CSM telling troops to be prepared to remove tattoos at their own expense. Make sure you look good, I just love seeing SMA Chandler with his two overseas duty stripes.
“Having said that I have a feeling that if she were a male CSM it may have been overlooked”
According to the folks I know on Jackson, if she was a he, she would have been GCM’d by now. Kicking over the porta potty at this time, may see her get her just desserts. The CG of Jackson is retiring PDQ, IMHO her lawyer thinks he can leverage this to his advantage. May be a bad move on his part.
I don’t wear my SSI-FWTS, lest something good I do inadvertently bring credit to 10th Mountain.
@20: You’re right.
@21: I hate seeing people get away with that shit. I had a SSG I worked for that had bounced through 3 MI companies, then the ACE, then the Div G2 section in less the 2 years. No surprise, she had EO complaints aganist senior NCOs and officers in every place she had been. The G2 SGM finally moved her to the G2 because he didn’t want to pawn her off on someone else. Guess who she mnade an EO complaint against?
I shouldn’t complain too much. I came in during the 90’s so I knew what to expect. And I never expected to make it past SSG so making SFC was a BFD for me, but I’m kinda pissed that the ‘slick-sleeve mafia’ in my branch is going to be running shit, controlling assignments and pushing out the warfighters (if using the term warfighter to describe MI nerds isn’t too out of line).
Now that the drawdown is starting, the slick-sleeves are coming back into power.
The same shit was going down in the Navy in the mid- to late-90’s. CPO’s and mid-level officers who had done minimal time on the pond being promoted farther and faster than those who had spent 10-plus years at sea (I did 8 at sea from E-4 to E-6 before getting my “good deal” in recruiting) getting shit.
At the time I got out, it simply wasn’t worth waiting around to see if the slots for CPO would open up.
how the hell does somebody on active duty NOT deploy when I have buddies in the Guard getting ready to go on Deployment #3? I’m in the Guard, I’ve done 2 and could get shafted with ANOTHER deployment.
Is this the CSM that had purple eyebrows?
If you’ve been around long enough, you’ve undoubtedly seen THIS type of SGM. In the Army Times original article about her, you can just sense the ATTITUDE oozing off the page. The “NO SLACK” license plate, the old, tired “Get off of MY grass” line……..I’m sure you’ve seen it (yawn…) all before…ALL THRUST, NO VECTOR!
She’s a 42A. How bad could any deployment be anyway? Here’s the upside of her never deploying: Can you imagine if this bitch was let loose in the land of “Reflective Belts”?
Indeed, I have, and no doubt I’m not the only one. So many (but not all) 1st shirts and Smaj’s can’t help but turn into cartoon character versions of themselves. Common sense and practicality cease to exist. The point to remember is, everyone in your chain of command is setting an example. Some set an example of the SNCO you should strive to be, others, like the toons, give you an example of the SNCO you should strive NOT TO BE.
@22 – “I don’t wear my SSI-FWTS, lest something good I do inadvertently bring credit to 10th Mountain.”
I can relate to that! The one bonus of having more than one SSI to choose from goes along the same lines. Command groups can get sort of snarky when you sport another [read: better] unit’s SSI, rather than the current patch.
as a former USMC 0311/0369 I havea strong dislike for the left right left brand of Sergeant Major we had in the Marines. We hada saying back in the late 90s and that was if you had a silver star on your Sea Service deployment ribbbon (indicating extensive time with the fleet in an infantry battalion with six deployments) you would never see a star on your sleeve.
Point is that the Corps selected First segeants and sergeants Major with little time in the fleet and very rarely did it select grunts at all. It sucked being a grunt in battalions in which all of the first sergeants and the sergeant major had no infantry background and very little fleet time.
This was even evident at the top when McMichael was selected as the sergeant Major of the Marine Corps in 1999. The guy had just four deployments, no combat time, no expeditionary or campaign awards but he is the Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps!
His selection was followed by that of Estrada another non grunt. Estrada was the worst and again, not a grunt. Estrada took deep offense at a report written by Marine Corps Gunners (infantry weapons officer 0306) which said that Marine Corps first sergeants and sergeant majors were useless in Iraq.
The next guy, Kent, was not much better.
This has been a long way to say who gives a shit what a sergeant major or command sergeant major thinks or does? Most suck but at least a sergeant major in an army infantry battalion is a grunt. In the Marine Corps he is far more likely to be a supply guy or anything buta grunt.
Just remember SMA Chandler sez no tattoos because they don’t look professional… I really really really don’t like that guy, he needs to go do something he is more suited for like not waste O2.
Jack have you read any of Terminal Lance? He has one where something you exactly describe, a new sgm comes in and he talks about his 4 deployments. They are like Guam, Thailand, Germany, and Qatar. The lcpl, who has had 4 combat deployments just starts laughing…
Some of us can’t win for losing (for the sake of family, lose for winning?), but having no combat deployment is an eyebrow raiser if you are an E-6 or higher. I re-upped for TOG and got sucked in for four years: CSM wouldn’t release me to re-up for Hawaii or elsewhere, and my volunteering for the 06-07 or so deployment to Djibouti was nixed (TOG went there in 04 as well, then to Iraq after I left). I was told back then that I already had a combat patch, and that other Soldiers needed the experience. Six months after my re-up to PCS back to the line was denied I got orders to recruiting. Now, I’m finally back in a light Infantry brigade, and wouldn’t you know, they needed an Ops Sergeant. I’ve talked with the MSG in charge of me, and the brigade CSM may send me to a platoon, but damn… At least I’m scheduled to deploy again.
One of the guys that works for me has spent four years overseas already in Afghanistan and Iraq. He’s about to go Drill (DA Select) to be trained by men and women with much less experience. Worse, he risks losing his career if he fails out. All eyes are on Drill Sergeant and Recruiter School now and the SMA personally calls the CSM of the divisions and brigades failures belong to.
I judge senior NCOs by their actions, not where they’ve been or what pretty stuff they have on their uniforms. That said, I agree with some of the above posts based on what I’ve read about CSM King. She seems to be the blowhard sort of CSM, who wants attention to “prove” she is squared away. Fortunately, none of the CSMs in my brigade seem that way, nor do any of the Ops SGMs who I deal with daily. So, I won’t group all E-9s as worthless blowhards, but I’ll continue to use those ones I do encounter as examples of who not to be.
[…] hard to believe that someone in her position would let people get away with. All the criticism I have been reading about her has been about her diploma mill degree and the fact she has never deployed in 29 years and yet […]
I am in the Navy. My career field is avionics maintenance. Usually I am working on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier. I spent 12 months on the ground in Afghanistan as an Individual Augmentee. Twice. If my Navy ass can get over there why not her?
She’s too busy being a bad ass. 😐
I marvel that there are people in our military who truly feel its not important to deploy. The medium currency within the Armed Forces, is credibility. 100% of the people who have never deployed have 0% credibility for those that have.
For me I can kind of take shit personal. I remember one day when I got back from Iraq I was screwed by the Missouri Guard because my battalion was reorganized and I was taken from an engineer company and put into a commo unit that sucked. There was a MSG and a the LTC that wanted me to come work for them and between the pissing match that ensued I ended up in the office of this slick sleeve E-7 and some guys who were deployment dodgers were hanging out. The E-7 begins to chew my ass about why I didn’t want to give up my 12b and go to the commo slot as a “cable dog”. The last time I saw the guy two years ago he was still dodging deployment as an AGR soldier while I had friends who have been on 3-4 deployments with the national guard. Now when house cleaning comes around I bet the guys who have EOCA and a bunch of profiles won’t be as valuable as a “senior NCO who has had time to get all the schools that SMA clown…chandler wants. I guess it kinda smarts a little.
She’s baaaack
http://news.yahoo.com/female-leader-army-drill-sergeants-back-job-201451948.html
And the slick sleeves win.
[…] King was reinstated to her job as the commandant of the drill sergeant academy at Fort Jackson. You already know what I think about it, the same as most of […]
I want to say I agree with almost everything that has been said on here but I have to make a litle bit of a case about not deplpoying. I enlisted as a 92G (cook) in 2004 and chose Fort Hood in my contract, thinking I would deploy within six months, I even turned down Japan for it. The DAY I got to my unit I was told we were moving to Fort BLiss, and exactly one year later we did. Now, since we were moving, everyone was fenced in, no way out of the unit until you did one year on the new station. At the end of one year on Bliss, we were fenced again because, being ADA, we were rotating to Korea for a year, and as soon as we got beck, we were moving again, to Fort ,and we were fenced again. I spent my first seven years in the Army with the same ADA unit, fenced in the WHOLE TIME, and we never deployed. The only way I was able to get out of that unit was because I re-classed through the BEAR program and married my husband, who was on Drill duty at Jackson at the time. I re-classed to Public Affairs, the third most deployed MOS so anyone in PA who says their MOS is why they haven’t deployed is full of crap, and upon graduation I was able to move because of MACP. If I had not gotten married to a Drill, I would still be stuck in that same unit and he would have been brought there. Having now been in eight years I STILL HAVEN”T DEPLOYED and I am currently asking to go to a BCT, but my current assignment is a three year requirement and I was brought here due to MACP. I have asked to deploy, I came in the Army to deploy. My husband has been in 16 years and started going over in Bosnia and Somalia and has been to Iraq and Afghanistan multiple times. I do not think anyone who has no COMBAT deployments, not… Read more »
[…] people get away with. All the criticism I have been reading about her has been about her diploma mill degree and the […]
Do not throw stones in a glass house. She went where the Army sent her and while in Germany she tried to deploy many times with no avail. Being a Drill SGT in basic training does not require combat experience, it requires knowledge of doctrine and the basic principals of soldiering and leadership. HRC controls SGM/CSM assingmenst and so it goes. If it was the Infantry School then it would merit a deeper discussion since combat does play a major role in tactics and on the ground experience.
I find it awfully funny that so many people make such a big fuss about this lady not entering into a combat zone, now the diploma mill issue is something new to me, but other than that, I don’t see the big fuss about her being elected to be the commandant of the Drill Sergeant school. I for one served three years in the 10th Mtn Division 2/87th infantry battalion and I never once saw direct combat but I deployed to Somalia. Some people got combat patches I was told but I didn’t get one. Serving the Army is a condition of contracts and obedience and she has done nothing wrong. The contract states that we are to defend this nation against enemies foreign and domestic. That being said, it doesn’t mean that we must go to a foreign combat zone to be qualified to serve this nation whether is as a leader, teacher or just enlisted or commissioned officer… What it does mean is that what we are called upon to do, it must be done honorably. All of this bullcrap about a slick sleeve is a bunch of I am better than you because I went to combat because you don’t have a patch on the right sleeve… Well again I served in Somalia during a civil war and I did not get tapped for a patch and I was infatry 11 Charlie MOS to be exact. By the way, I don’t recall any of my drill sergeants having a combat patch, during my basic training, but they did an excellent job in teaching us the basic combat training needed to survive on the battlefield. What’s different about what some soldier actually going into combat who was tapped as combat qualified than someone who isn’t tapped for that patch…Nothing other than that they were fortunate to make it back alive. There are plenty of soldiers who lost their lives defending this constitution and they don’t have the privledge to teach…There are some such as my brother in law who served several rotations who can’t even go to drill… Read more »
TRADOC.
Plain and simple.
I would like to make a comment. It is not always easy to get to combat when you have specific things that the Army wants in a staff position. I have wanted to deploy, however there are no taskers available for my MOS and because of my clearance level in a staff position I am unable to get out of this cycle. Not my fault. We deal the hand we are dealt and I dont think that she or anyone should be punished because we are chosen for non-deploy duty in special assignments. This also does show that the promotion system in the Army needs to be re-looked.
DCW: as a member of the USAR, I ended up doing 4 years 6 mo active duty between 9/11 and Aug 2009. And one of those years was a tour in the CENTCOM AOR that I sought out and found – after spending 3+ years looking for a chance to deploy.
Call me a fool, but since we were at war I kinda thought it was my duty to deploy.
I’m simply not going to buy the “I never got orders so it’s not my fault” excuse for a CSM who never deployed once in the 10+ years we’ve been at war. If she’d wanted to deploy, IMO she certainly could have found a way to do that. Lotsa staff assignments in Kuwait, Qatar, Kabul, and (until 2010) Baghdad.
DCW,
As a 24-year veteran who never heard a shot fired in anger, I think the point is this:
Whatever the reason that you did not deploy into the combat zone and conduct operations there, you do not have the same level of credibility when it comes to training/leading/making big decisions about the Army as those who have done so.
It is what it is. I understand and accept it as such, as do many others who served in my timeframe. Luck of the draw, unit assignement, MOS, whatever.
An NCO or officer with 3 or more deployments to the CENTCOM AOR speaks with much more authority than one who has not. In making decisions as to who should be trusted to lead/direct/mold the force, that should be a great discriminator. It’s likely that good people who could have done a great job will be factored out. Unfortunate. It’s MORE likely that someone with valuable insights into actually, you know, CONDUCTING A WAR will be put into that position and his/her insights will make for a better soldier or unit.