ACCP: another TAH public service announcement
I noticed last night that TAH has “ACCP” listed as one of its Categories, with one post under that category written about a year ago by Sporkmaster, This is a TAH public service announcement. So now, one year later, I’d like to take this opportunity to clarify some of that information (thank you, Sporkmaster). I know this is a long and boring post, but somebody’s got to do it.
First I’d like to say that while the Army Learning Management System (ALMS), accessible from the AKO My Education page or My Training page, is the main place for the Army Correspondence Course Program (ACCP) courses these days (with enrollment through ATRRS), it is not entirely correct yet to say the old system, ATIA, is completely dead. Currently there are about 5 or 6 ACCP courses still on ATIA that are available for self-enrollment, several of which are worth credit hours that translate to promotion points. (FYI: Javelin Gunner course = zero credit hours. Same with Pathfinder.) The ATIA system is also still used for several other courses as well, such as Battle Staff NCO Phase 1 (exam only; course material on CD), initial access to the Advanced Leadership Course Common Core (ALC-CC) delivered through Blackboard on LLC, and other things. ATIA student records remain accessible to students through the “MY COURSES” gadget box on the AKO My Training (MT2) page. Active courses appear under the Active tab and previously taken courses appear under the Historic tab.
A lot of soldiers say ATIA was better than ALMS, and worse things, and I can sympathize, but there are also some advantages to ALMS. If you take an exam on ALMS and get booted out three quarters of the way through (okay, sometimes that happens a lot), or you lose your connection, or your computer locks up, in many cases, your responses are still all going to be there, recorded within the system (as long as you logged in through AKO with your CAC and kept your AKO page active while in the exam), and all you have to do is contact the ACCP office at ATHD to assist you. You’ll probably be able to get a score posted and be done with it. Totally not the case with the old ATIA system; you would have no choice but to start the exam over again if you want to complete the course.
Another advantage of ALMS is that it is much more difficult to cheat on your ACCP courses than in the old ATIA system. Also, your wife won’t be able to take your ACCP courses for you in ALMS to help get you promoted while you’re deployed to Afghanistan since taking the ACCP exams in ALMS requires CAC log-in. (I’m sure you’ll all agree this is a good thing.)
In his 2 Feb 2011 post, Sporkmaster wrote, “Any course taken after January 1st will not count.” I’m not quite sure where that came from, but perhaps it stemmed from some of the confusion that arose as things were changing last year. The issue is not whether an ACCP course is in ATIA or in ALMS (though nearly all are now in ALMS), but with whether it is a full course or an individual subcourse. I think most soldiers have got this figured out by now, but for those who don’t, it bears repeating: Individual subcourses do not go to a soldier’s ATRRS record; only full courses do. And the way the Army regulation is now written, only full correspondence courses reflected in the ATRRS record earn promotion points (1 promotion point for every 5 credit hours of correspondence courses). The Army regulation on this actually changed in 2008, however, the Army didn’t start enforcing its own regulation until 2010. This came as very unpleasant news to a lot of young sergeant E-5’s who, in many cases, had their points for correspondence courses maxed out through the individual subcourses they had taken in ATIA (those are the ones listed in the student record under 999 Subcourse Enrollment) and then, all of sudden, their ERB’s are wiped clean and they lost all those points.
It was so bad last year listening to the young sergeants cussing and moaning about all the points they lost because of taking subcourses instead of full courses, I voluntarily went through the entire US Army Master Resilience Training course offered on post as well as enrolled myself in online courses on suicide prevention (in addition to the mandatory training). It might sound like I’m making light of this, and in a way I am (laughter is good medicine), but it was also a serious thing. Life is not always easy and it can sometimes be like the last thing a soldier just back from Iraq or Afghanistan (or still there) wants to find out – that he lost most of his promotion points for correspondence courses because he only took the individual subcourses and not full courses. And yes, it can sometimes be the straw that broke the camel’s back and directly impact promotions.
To my understanding, every soldier’s ERB got wiped clean of the correspondence courses and subcourses last spring. Most soldiers know this by now, but occasionally I still run across one to whom this is news. The full ACCP courses now auto-populate into the soldier’s ERB from the ATRRS record upon completion in ALMS (or for those very few still in ATIA), but for any previous courses taken in the ATIA system, yes, the soldier needs to physically take his proof in hand to his S1 to have the courses put back onto his ERB. That proof can be the record printed off from his Historical Enrollments on the ATIA website as described above, or the course completion notices generated automatically by the ATIA system to the soldier’s AKO email issued upon completion of a course. The S1’s really ought to accept either record in my opinion; in reality, many of them insist upon the course completion notice, which is the official document of completion for courses completed in the ATIA system issued in the place of a certificate. The full ACCP courses should all be in the ATRRS record as well; if not, the soldier needs to contact the Army Training Help Desk (ATHD) by phone or submitting a help desk ticket through the ATHD site, click on Ask a Question/Submit a Comment (be sure to select Distributed Learning/ACCP in the drop-down menu under Category).
Now a few words about the ACCP courses in ALMS. One of the things Sporkmaster mentioned in his post about ACCP is that if you want credit for your courses to show up in your ATRRS record and ERB, you must register in ATRRS. With regard to the ALMS, this is true. The ALMS website does offer the individual subcourses and you can go straight there on the ALMS site and enroll in any of them you want, but just because you completed all of the subcourses in ALMS required for the Smoke course doesn’t mean you’re going to get credit for the Smoke course. You have to be enrolled in the Smoke course through ATRRS (you would not have to repeat the subcourses though).
To enroll in a full ACCP course, go to: ATRRS Self-Development Center > click on Advanced Course Search on the left under User Tools > select 553 from the drop-down menu for School). You can also search by course number or keyword if you’re looking for something specific. Follow the process for enrollment and when it’s done, the course will go into your ALMS Current Enrollments. When everything for that course is out of your Current Enrollments and sitting in your Detailed Training Record (DTR) as successfully completed, then the link for your Certificate of Completion will appear and your Graduate status in the course will process automatically into your ATRRS record and from there into your ERB.
One bright light for those soldiers who lost a lot of promotion points due to taking only individual subcourses in ATIA is that subcourses completed in ATIA can potentially be applied toward full courses now delivered through ALMS. Some of this may occur automatically by the system in cases where individual subcourses showed up in the student’s ALMS DTR from the one-time partial migration of records that was done in the beginning (and not expected to be done again), but in most cases, the student will have to contact the ACCP office to make the request. These requests are handled on a case-by-case basis. The ACCP office is allowed to mark complete in ALMS only those subcourses completed less than four years ago. Also, don’t request credit for a subcourse in ALMS that was previously completed in ATIA unless that subcourse is physically sitting in and visible in your Current Enrollments in ALMS.
Whenever you experience issues with ACCP courses in ALMS, such as Sporkmaster wrote about with passing an exam but it not showing complete, or getting booted out of an exam, or anything you need help, information, or clarification on, don’t suffer in silence. Contact the ACCP division of the ATHD either by phone or help desk ticket from the ATHD site, which you can also find linked on your AKO My Training page.
And remember, the light at the end of the tunnel may be you.
Category: Professional Development, Support the troops
A good write up, I thought that I throw in a few questions.
Now with the comment on ATIA being dead,that was from the view that one could not use it for additional ACCP hours for promotion points. Also that one can still take the classes that they already selected before they were taken off.
My biggest issue withe ALMS when it was first started was getting a class and having it count. But once I started to use ATRRS that problem was no longer a issue. Also I know that there was the issue of the three tries and a timed tests that I did not care for. But I know for the medical classes that was not a problem.
Now the comment about the classes not counting comes from when they started ALMS they would only count the classes completed in ALMS. All the classes I had took in in ATIA regardless of if they were courses or sub-courses were not counted. To have that issue fixed I had to take them over to our S1 to have the completed courses converted over. So unless you wanted to do that for every completed class in ATIA, it would be easier just to use ALAMs.
Also in July I found were to find the master lists of the complete courses. That way I can spend time on taking the right classes to complete the series so that it will reflect on ATTRs and my ERB were it would count. I think I did a total of over 80 hours in one day. Needless to say my mind was toast afterwords.
If that was bad, just wait for the next one that states that as of Jan 1st that there will be a limit on points for ACCP to 78. Making getting any ACCP hours over 390for the purpose of points kinda meaningless.
Good write up, I just finished ALC Phase 1 through that system, and I must say, I was not pleased with the issues with the software and having to relog in and the slow response with the quizes. The truth is, though that in order to save money, all NCOES courses will now be online, at least the first phases. I prefer the on site courses myself…….
Sporkmaster, in response to things you raised… On the question about using ATIA for additional ACCP credit hours for promotion points, if it was a full course, you should get promotion points for it; it’s just a matter of what needs to be done to get them. As I said, the ERB’s were wiped clean last year and the soldiers have been having to take their ACCP documentation of their prior courses completed in ATIA to their S1’s to have them put back onto their ERB’s. It sounds like that’s what you did, too, however, that is only needed for those courses taken previously. If you were to enroll in and complete one of the few ACCP courses still left on ATIA, such as Action Officers Development Course (AODC) – a course worth 21 credit hours that was created for warrant officers and still a requirement for them before they can go to their Warrant Officer Advanced Course (resident phase) – once you complete it, it would process into your ATRRS record and, from there (at this point), auto-populate into your ERB the same as a course from ALMS. The issue has more to do with just the fact that most stuff is on ALMS now and very little left on ATIA, but as far as the points go, you would still get your points and it should be going to your ERB regardless. If it doesn’t work that way, I’d like to know about it. As for your question on whether one can still take courses that one had already selected (if by this you mean “enrolled in”) before they were taken off, really, it depends on several factors. At this stage of the game, there are probably few cases, if any, where a soldier is still finishing up an ACCP course on ATIA that was moved to ALMS last year, however, as of last year when you first wrote your post, there were probably still lots of soldiers finishing their ACCP courses up on ATIA. The transition from ATIA to ALMS might have been a little less than… Read more »
Lucky, which ALC Phase 1 was that? Was it ALC Common Core, or an ALC for your MOS? Were your quizzes on Blackboard on the LLC site, or are you referring to exams taken on ATIA at http://www.train.army.mil?
Stuff is all over the place, so I can’t always tell what a student is talking about unless I look at it myself.
Also, some of the ALC Phase 1 courses are now delivered through ALMS while some are still on ATIA as far as exams but the course material on Blackboard on LLC, and of those, some are apparently being delivered in both ATIA as well as ALMS. It’s very confusing. (Sometimes I’m like, okay, just pick a freakin’ platform and stick with it!)
Btw, if you think that was bad, I can only guess you haven’t started on your Structured Self-Development yet, which, while not ACCP courses, are also delivered through ALMS…
It was common core, the MOS specific Phase two is still a resident course. It switched from ATIA to a web address with ncoes in the first part of the address. I have to do the ammo handlers course this week before drill, then I can work on the SSD, but our Brigade leadership wants all SSGs and about hazmat qualified by the 11th of February. I was slightly more focused on ALC, as I really don’t like the prospect of an Article 15 for not completing it…
The website with ncoes in it is ncoes.ellc.learn.army…and the llc means Lifelong Learning Center. If it was the ALC-CC you just completed, I had no idea soldiers were being threatened with Art. 15’s for not completing it, however, I do know a soldier will never get promoted again if they don’t complete it.
Well, good luck, Lucky…you’ll need it navigating the technical issues with the SSD, but don’t worry; you’ll be in good company and, rest assured, the Sergeant Major of the Army is on to it… 🙂
That’s the link!!!! You can get right to the Phase 1 blackboard from that link, and I am already scheduled for Phase 2 this summer… They straight threaten you with NJP if you are negligent in completing things on time twice. Anyway, I have a phone interview with a SORB recruiter this week, so wish me luck!
Awesome! Good luck with your SORB interview, Lucky!
Thank you, fingers crossed!
Until August of last year I hadn’t completed a single correspondence course. Made SGT and SSG without those or civilian education to speak of. Back in August, though, I found out about the SSD courses. Figuring that using an Army laptop that I could bring home would be preferable to using a platoon or company desktop, I knocked out SSD-3, then SSD-1, then even SSD-4 despite not having SLC yet. I also enrolled in numerous other courses through ALMS, ATRRS, and JKO. I had 16 hours before August, now I’ve got well over 400 hours. I don’t really need the hours for promotion as I’m in the zone for SFC, but it can’t hurt either. I just wanted to knock out all of the courses I may be required to take in the next year of so, such as SSD, the Commander’s Safety Course, and so on. Joint Knowledge Online courses don’t offer a massive amount of credits (1-3 for the courses I’ve taken) but they do populate on the ATRRS transcript even if ATRRS isn’t used to register for them. Some of the regular online training we are required to take can be taken through JKO as well, such as the Accident Avoidance Course, IA Assurance Training, TARP, and AT Level 1. Those don’t go on the ATRRS transcript, but at least you get a pretty little JKO certificate along with the regular one–and it does populate on the JKO transcript, which is good for those courses that do not maintain individual records of completion. As a SSG I knew I needed SSD-3 before I go to SLC and I wanted to complete SSD-1 just so I know what my Soldiers have to go through. SSD-4 was completed when I registered on a whim and found it to be approved (according to all the info I received SLC is a prerequisite). The Level 3 really wasn’t all that bad. The system messed up a few times and it is really bad when you get to the last section of a lesson only to have a system error and be… Read more »
SSD is pain. I finished BNCOC and am not eligible for SFC for another year, so there’s no rush, but I registered for level 3 to get an idea of what was involved, and level 1 so I could see what the privates were being put through (that sounds wrong).
Ugh. Serious technical glitches, even aside from having to reboot into Windows to use it. I think they hired the guys who designed Windows 2.0 to put together the user interface.
This is gonna sound stupid, but where do I find the SSD courses on there?
Thank you for sharing your experiences, fm2176, and how you found the SSD to be. That’s in line with what I’ve picked up from numerous conversations with other soldiers. I haven’t taken any of the SSD courses myself, however, I just enrolled myself in the SSD-1 a few days ago so I can see for myself what students are talking about and see what happens. I know one of the common problems with the SSD-1 is in Module 1, particularly on the subsection on MTBI and PTSD – where the window opens (according to the descriptions I’ve heard), and the heading is there and buttons are there, but the screen is black and nothing works. Sometimes that’s reported on the first section of Mod 1 as well, or even all the subsections. I’ve also heard reports of this on the SSD-3. Did you get anything like that, fm2176, and, if so, do you have any suggestions for overcoming the issue? What did you actually do to be able to move on in the course? And just out of curiosity, what was your operating system? Browser and browser version? Java version (if you know)? Were you on a government computer or personal computer and what kind of connection did you have, i.e., government or commercial? On your Military History subcourse in ALMS, if you used up only two attempts, you should have access again by now, but it sounds like you used all three, so, yes, you’ll have to contact ATHD to request another attempt be added. However, another way of doing it is to just enroll in it again. Since it is a subcourse that you self-enroll in from ALMS, and not a full course iteration through ATRRS enrollment, you can actually just go back into ALMS under the ACCP Search or Catalog Search and pull it up and register for it again. The ALMS will allow you to enroll in the same subcourse multiple times. (Not true of full course iterations enrolled in through ATRRS, but enrolling in just the individual subcourses, it is different.) If you do that,… Read more »
ladyvet, I had that exact issue a few times–the screen would start loading, then seem to freeze up. On a number of other occasions the load times would be massive, sometimes taking five or more minutes to load a screen. I don’t know if the “freezing” was truly a glitch or if it was just taking that long to load. Regardless, most of the time I’d close the window and hope that my progress was registered in ALMS (having the screen automatically reset is a good indication that I don’t have to go all the way back through the course). Another issue I had with SSD-1 and SSD-3 was the screen freezing after wrongly answering a knowledge check question and being taken back to the page pertaining to that question. Then too, at times it takes you back to the wrong page, creating a Catch-22 where you are wildly guessing the answer on the self-input questions where you must type the answer out. Fortunately, ten years in the Army has hammered most of the stuff into my head, so I usually guessed the answer correctly. After the first couple of times getting stuck on a review page, I began printing out most of the applicable lessons and using them as an open book for the knowledge checks. IMHO, the exams are short and sweet compared to the training. My average exam score between all levels was 91, and I rarely took more than 30 minutes to complete an exam. Unlike SSD itself, the exams never crashed or froze up on me. Given the breadth of subject matter in SSD, having only 25 or so questions for each module’s exam does not allow the exam to do more than ensure that a Soldier has a slight familiarization with the subject. In conjunction with the knowledge checks at the end of each subsection, though, the exams are more than adequate, especially considering that many Soldiers will not have the luxury of completing an entire module within a few days, weeks, or even months. One thing I would change if I could would… Read more »
Thanks again for sharing your experiences, fm2176. A pleasure to read and a pleasure to chat with you. My personal opinion and impression so far, from talking to so many students recently about the SSD courses, is that there does not really seem to be any common threads; just that the courseware is screwed up and doesn’t work well. I hope they get that fixed soon; the phone is driving me crazy. 🙂
I completely agree with you on lectures and audio in online courses. I don’t like to listen to it either and it interferes with my learning. I just want to see the words and that’s it. It’s annoying to me when I have to sit there and wait for the talking to be done (even when you put it on mute) before the forward arrow becomes available to advance to the next slide.
Thank you again for sharing. I must say, I love talking to recruiters on the phone; you all are about the smoothest talking soldiers in the Army, second only to the psyops types, who, in my experience, are the smoothest talking of all. 😉
Thanks. As for being a Recruiter, I am now classified as a former detailed Recruiter. I’ll be reporting to my next assignment in a couple of days and managed to ensure that my record with USAREC will preclude my being involuntarily reassigned in the future. That is, unless they want someone back who wrote an average of one contract every other month. In my defense, I was classified as the Future Soldier Leader for the past 18 or so months. 🙂
Hopefully SSD’s problems are solved soon. By the time I have to take SSD-5 the problems should be a thing of the past, but I cannot imagine being in a line unit and only having an hour or so a day–if that–to work on the courses, while being interrupted by crashes and glitches regularly.
Lol…I see…So the Recruiting duty did not agree with you all that much. Hmmm. Well, now that the Army is drawing down, I would think you would be just what USAREC needs at this point. 😀
I can’t seem to access the SSD3. It’s on my ALMS and I recieved a course verification in my email. But when I try to access it under ALMS there is no LAUNCH tab. I tried clicking the Register tab but then it told me no course was found, even though it’s right there in front of me. Any help?
What you need to do to start your SSD3 is first find the SSD3 Letter of Instruction (LOI) and that will have the Launch button. You can put the modules into order on your Current Enrollments page by taking the check mark out of the little box on the top right of your Current Enrollments page (above the course listings) next to where it says, “Group courses by course/phase/certifications and curricula.” Once you take that check mark out, the page will refresh and the modules of your SSD3 course will then be in order. Click the Launch button for the SSD3 LOI. After that is done, it will go to your Detailed Training Record and then the Launch button will appear for your Module 1.