White House: Biden’s Taliban statement taken out of context
Thanks to Aunty Brat who messaged me on Facebook about this Fox News article which reports that Biden comment about the Taliban not being the enemy was taken out of context. Well, and yeah, but they don’t bother to give us any context except a faulty interpretation of recent history;
“It is a simple fact that we went into Afghanistan because of the attack on the United States on Sept. 11, 2001. We are there now to ultimately defeat Al Qaeda, to stabilize Afghanistan and stabilize it in part so that Al Qaeda or other terrorists who have as their aim attacks on the United States cannot establish a foothold again in that country,” Carney continued.
Um, the simple fact is that we did indeed strike at Afghanistan because of al Qaeda’s attack on US soil, but the first thing we did was provide support to the Northern Alliance so they could toss the Taliban out and the majority of the fighting has been against remaining elements of Taliban and the Haqqanis. The Taliban has been targeting Afghan civilians with most of their terror attacks,
In fact, before the attack on September 11th, 2001, al Qaeda targeted the Taliban’s main enemy Ahmad Shah Massoud who commanded the Northern Alliance in an assassination.
Preventing a resurgence of al Qaeda in Afghanistan means destroying the Taliban. How we do that without recognizing that they’re our enemy is beyond me and probably beyond anyone who puts a moment’s thought into the subject. I guess that would leave Bite Me out of a rational discussion.
Category: Barack Obama/Joe Biden, Terror War
“The Japanese government, per se, isn’t our enemy.” – Henry A. Wallace, Dec. 8, 1941.
Well, of COURSE they provided no context. There IS no context within which his statement would make any sense.
Duh.
I can’t lay claim to know what is bouncing around Biden’s head like a fart in a whirlwind, but he could have ultimately meant, in his own gaffegacious way…..that realistically, there are different strategic perceptions of what defines an enemy.
The Taliban, Haqqani, HiG, etc….are our enemy by default. They are trying to kill us and we are trying to kill them. But they are not near the same level of threat as al Qaeda, or the various franchises.
Anyway, just a guess at what he could have meant.
You would think they’d have learned to keep the microphone away from Biden by now. The guy can’t be anywhere near one without saying something utterly retarded.
Fox could have saved themselves a lot of effort by just reporting that Bite-Me has been, is and will forever be, out of context. Not taken out of context, just out of context.
From “Stand Up, Chuck” to the guy in the wheelchair, to “the Taliban per se is not our enemy. That’s critical”. All of this from a guy who thinks that J-O-B-S is a 3 letter word?
I repeat my previous assertion that It all kind of seems laughable right now, but do you remember how Sarah Palins most minor gaffs got blasted all over the news, and this jacktard gaffs again and again and again and somehow we shouldn’t be worried?
But you know what was really scary? The presidential line of succession until 2010
1). Biden
2). Pelosi
3). Ried
$). Clinton
Kind of makes you thankful that we aren’t the hardcore racists that the MSN claims we are. could you imagine president Biden? I shudder to think.
Then, as I have said on Facebook, who the fuck was I over there fighting on the human terrain? I mean what the fuck is this dumbass eating, its gotta be something in the food causing him to be such a fucktard!
Biden is a confirmed liar, cheat, and plagiarist–going back many years. He is a dumb as a brick–going back years. He is a nasty little prick–going back years. So much for Delaware voters–goinf back years.
“Preventing a resurgence of al Qaeda in Afghanistan means destroying the Taliban.” this is exactly right. There is a distinction between reconciling former members of a movement and the entire organisation. A distinction Biden was not making.
3#”The Taliban, Haqqani, HiG, etc….are our enemy by default. They are trying to kill us and we are trying to kill them. But they are not near the same level of threat as al Qaeda, or the various franchises.” I agree with you but that is not what Biden was implying. There are individuals of said former movements, who hopefully can be brought back into the government fold. Then there are organisations(like the Quetta Shura or HIG) upon who’s very purpose is predicated on bringing down said government.
Al Qaeda and the Taliban are intertwined and can not be seperated, they serve the exact same cause. Al Qaeda furnished a “brigade” to battle the northern alliance before 9/11. They have reconstituted their so called “Shadow Army”(Lashkar Al-Zil) to fight both Nato and the Pakistani Army(which they have defeated three times!).
@9 – You may be correct on Biden’s remarks…I can’t know what he meant.
I do disagree on the intertwining of al Qaeda and the ‘Taliban’…perhaps I’m being nitpicky as this problem is inherent to my job. The Taliban’s stated goals are national, not global. Is there some crossover with AQ’s vision, sure. But the ‘Taliban’ are not a threat to our national security, outside of our presence in Afghanistan. There is also a sizable amount of open source information that speaks to the idea that if the Taliban regained even a rump autonomous Baluchistan, they would not invite al Qaeda back as guests. It didn’t work out very well for them the last time.
Interestingly, the Pak based Tehrik-i-Taliban do share the Caliphate vision.
The main argument I hear for a near perpetual presence in Afghanistan, is to keep that sodding excuse for a nation becoming a safe haven for Islamic terror groups. I would argue that those groups have illustrated that they don’t need AFG anymore than nay other nation they’re infesting.
But I do rather doubt Biden, or most political figures on our national stage ever really get into the weeds on this topic.
#10 “The Taliban’s stated goals are national, not global. Is there some crossover with AQ’s vision, sure.” Al Qaeda is a Van guard organisation, its immediate cause is intertwined.
“There is also a sizable amount of open source information that speaks to the idea that if the Taliban regained even a rump autonomous Baluchistan, they would not invite al Qaeda back as guests. It didn’t work out very well for them the last time.” There is also alot of information pointing in the exat opposite direction, that the next generation of the Taliban see themselves as part of a localised/regional but global jihadist movement. I hope your right but I tend to lean the other way, though I am opened to reconsidering.
Second as to the Taliban not inviting Al Qaeda back if they regain the country, why wouldn’t they? They would be victorious over the other super power, a defeat Al Qaeda had played a huge role in. How if necessary would we reintervene in a land locked country, where we had few allies, a second time? Who would trust or stick there necks out for us? This idea that Al Qaeda won’t be reinvited is just wishful thinking, I see no evidence. It’s kind of like that flatly wrong statment of Al Qaeda only numbering a 100 fighters in Afghanistan, its simply false, more wishful thinking. Hope is not a plan.
“Interestingly, the Pak based Tehrik-i-Taliban do share the Caliphate vision” As I said above which Al Qaeda has also fought alongside of. The Pak Taliban and the Afghan Taliban maybe be separate entities but they do have alot of cadre and philosophical crossover. No offense there CI, but your making my above point for me.
“I would argue that those groups have illustrated that they don’t need AFG anymore than nay other nation they’re infesting.” Again I agree at present the tribal areas of Pakistan are better suited, Afghanistan would be better for them though because it would be harder for us to access.
@11 – Allow me to start with the last point.
If the Taliban regain power, it is highly unlikely it would be anywhere outside of RC-S and RC-SW. The Uzbek, Tajik, Turkmen and the lesser tribes are not nearly as amenable to Taliban national rule as they were previously. They’re not amenable to federal rule from Kabul either, but that’s a different issue. Future Taliban controlled areas would be entirely permissive for air and ground strike operations. When we went into AFG in 2001, it was with little more than outdated Soviet maps. Our GEOINT, SIGINT and other capabilities far outmatch any counter from a Taliban rump regime. Our access would be undisputed.
If you wish to lump Islamic extremism under an umbrella, then yes…they’re all interrelated. But if you parse the groups and goals, you can find seams and exploit them for some semblance of success.
The Taliban I/O campaign might see a brief spike in recruitment or financing from a US withdrawal and partial power recoupment…..but it pales in what they can garner with foreign [infidel] military forces occupying a Muslim nation. The breakdown of enemy actors in networks and incidents taking place in AFG gives quite a bit of plausibility to the reported number of AQ in the country. My read is that AQ is there, but not in strength. There’s also my professional opinion that it was and remains part of AQs strategy to lure and keep western military forces engaged in a nation such as AFG for the I/O campaign.
Concerning the relationship between AQ and the QST, there are sources that state each side. We could toss links at each other, but may not persuade in the end. I will add that COMISAF [among others] that the long term relationship is split irrevocably.
Biden is an idiot. Remember the swine-flu scare a few years back? He told on national news that he instructed his family not to travel at all (or something like that). Then, the networks were saying that his words were taken out of context. WTF was taken out of context other than he is an idiot?
I’m thinking that his hairplugs are the only thing that’s alive between his ears.
#12 Let me chop this up. 1)”If the Taliban regain power, it is highly unlikely it would be anywhere outside of RC-S and RC-SW.” Highly unlikely, this may have been their heartland, but the Taliban have mostly been crushed in Helmand and Kandahar provinces. They have exploded in the West, North-West, east, where we have lost both Nuristan and most of Kunar(there have been a number of attacks launched from these areas at Pakistani security forces recently). The Haqqani network maybe aligned but there are organic commanders with allegiance to the Quetta Shura. Not to mention HIG, a sometime ally and foe. Then there is LET, Al Qaeda, and even rumored occasional appearences by both Kashmiri groups and the Pakistan Taliban. 2)”The Uzbek, Tajik, Turkmen and the lesser tribes are not nearly as amenable to Taliban national rule as they were previously.” Sorry CI, I would make the exact opposite point. They have never been amenable, except through force of arms but this is more likely today then under Masood. The Taliban have generally gone out of their way in the North to put none Pashtun faces on the affliates(like the Uzbecks). Let me be very clear, this does not mean there is any kind of stampede by locals to join Mullah Omar’s fan club, but this does create a semicredible, sustainable, and, lethal opposition. This force may not be able to overthrow the government by themselves but they would provide a means or avenue of reconcilation with a newly installed Taliban goevernment. A good example, though not the Taliban is HIG. They have traditionally been even more Pan-Islamic(and more ruthless) and have significant proportions of recruits from minorities. With their lands overrun by the Taliban in the 90s the organisation went dormant, but with our defeat of in turn them, they have made a huge comeback. Alot of that has to do with our inability to even remotely police there areas, which allowed HIG to fill the gap slowly over a number of years. Hekmatyar maybe a Pashtun but he feasibly can say he runs more then a Pashtun… Read more »
Numbering was a good start, but I wish you would have continued. This discussion goes longer than the typical, though very stimulating. 1,2 – Whack-a-mole. You are quite correct; we surged in S and SW…the bad guy hits in E, N and Capitol. Not so much in west. The ‘Pashutnistan’ region of AFG is the only area they would enjoy any sort of autonomy, post US presence. The tribal dynamics of the other regions preclude the liklihood of spreading that influence beyond…not to mention that there will always be an opposition, ala Northern Alliance/Karzai Regime. The Afghans in the other regions do benefit from Taliban shadow government in their areas due to the relative ethics of the governance and juducial system compared to that of Kabul. But, one of the many problems in the Kabul federated experiment is the dynaimcs between Pashtuns and the other tribes. If given the opportunity, they will try their own hand at autonomy. Hekmatyar is playing both sides of the fence. His cooperation with the QST is reliant only on his self interest. To the point of someone of Masood stature, there is no on eperson that could be named at this point. But that doesn’t preclude circumstances from giving rise to that sort of entity. We have enabled several personalities to gain and weild power with the force of arms and money. There may not be a Msood, but there will be opposition. “Thats nice. We have never had a tech gap problem with the Taliban. If you haven’t notice most of our decapitation campaign in Afghanistan has not worked because frankly they have always been able to absorbed those losses. It is simply impossible for the operators to raid the enemy into the ground. They can’t gather enough intel and execute anywhere near reasonably fast enough to make this plausible.” I disagree. Not on the tech gap, but on the intelligence gap. We have come from a point where we knew virtually nothing about the adversary to a point where we know the majority of available ratlines and other infrastructure that I justifiably… Read more »
16# “Numbering was a good start, but I wish you would have continued”. Sorry about that. I have found it is hard in a long entry to correct errors. For some reason words just get eaten, it won’t space and that makes it hard to correct long posts. It wouldn’t admit numbers without having to rewrite the whole thing. 1)”Whack-a-mole” I would not label this whack-a-mole. Its not like we surged in the West, so the enemy dispersed to the East. The enemy did have a tendency to push around forces abit in the towns of the South, when they encountered tough Allied resistence. These enemy formations though were fundementally organic to the South, raised and recruited in a macro regional sense. What changed this wasn’t simply the skill level of our guys(though this is true), it was the mass of manpower sent. By my last count the US alone had somewhere around 12-13 infantry battalions(not counting RSTA or recon), and depending on how you compare the Brits organisation, 4-5 more, thats approaching two divisions. There was no where the enemy could retreat to, retrain and refit in relative safety. They simply over time were attrited out of existence through death, capture, and, reconcilation. With them went the Shadow govenment network and control of almost the entire population. We created a death spire that they simply couldn’t recover from. OPERATORS CAN”T DO THIS! 2)”…the bad guy hits in E, N and Capitol.” Going back to one of your earlier points, different affliates, that do coordinate at times. The Haqqanis were responsible the terror attacks in Kabul and some of the incidences directly south of Kabul. HIG is the main(not the only though) player in Kunar and Nuristan. As to the West, Herat has not actually been silent lately has it? Granted I think the Italians and the Spaniards are out there so there is that caveat. 3)”The tribal dynamics of the other regions preclude the liklihood of spreading that influence beyond.” Tribe is such an arbitary term not to just us but the Afghans themselves. There have been numerous studies,… Read more »
I think the underlying element in our disagreement will come down to how many AQ members we each believe to exist at any one time in AFG, and the strategic goal of their presenece there. We have a pretty good laydown of AQ numbers in country, and I don’t see anything that disagrees with my assessment.
For my part, I wish I could share things I cannot, not out of trying to change your mind, but out of a respect for your willingness to have a civil discussion in this subject…which is rather rare on the internet, outside of the serious wonk sites.
I don’t have the time presently to give your response the attention it deserves, partially becuase I would try hard not to simply retread the same ground, and partially because the outlaws are town for the holidays.
The kicker for me is that if the various Taliban elements withered and died tomorrow, it wouldn’t affect al Qaeda’s bottom line whatsoever. Thier main goal at this point re;AFG is to keep us engaged inextrcicably, while they remain generally safe and continue to build it’s franchise affiliates.
I don’t view AFG important to our national security except for reverberations in Pakistan…..but, and this is a major but, the underlying problems in Pakistan will not be solved without a regional security solution.
The major problem with ever seeing success in AFG is that we are willingly ignoring the primary tenet of COIN – a legitimate host government. Adding to that, if a concerted effort gained a semblance of security within the next decade, you’re looking at another two decades before AFG would be solvent and stable enough to fund it’s own security.
I do not wish to devote the majority effort of our military and intelligence apparatus, as well as untold billions of dollars, while virtually ignoring al Qaeda [comparatively speaking].
18# 1)” think the underlying element in our disagreement will come down to how many AQ members we each believe to exist at any one time in AFG, and the strategic goal of their presenece there. We have a pretty good laydown of AQ numbers in country, and I don’t see anything that disagrees with my assessment.” Check out the “long war Journal” and I think the “Captaim’s journal”(though admittingly haven’t been there in awhile) for contradiction. 2)”For my part, I wish I could share things I cannot, not out of trying to change your mind, but out of a respect for your willingness to have a civil discussion in this subject…which is rather rare on the internet, outside of the serious wonk sites.” You peeked my curiosity though, I thought you were a retired 11 series weren’t you? You were in the same 1st ID brigade as Bailey right? I am willing to admit that you may know a bombshell that would alter my assessment. Frankly I doubt this, I come to this conclusion based on the many, and I mean many, failures just over the last 4-5 years in the war. This supposedly when we had our “eye on the ball” again in Afghanistan. That spans both administartions, not simply Obama’s. Thats why I said above “I also believe we maybe mistaking better intel with omniscience.”. I atribute much of our failure to faulty assumptions, both military and civil. We have had earth shattering success down south in less then three years. That is after the Special Forces run shamble the first few years, which we turned over to the undermanned, poorly led, overextended besieged Brits. We lost Nuristan, which to be fair we were barely ever in. Then we had the whole Pech Valley fiasco, now also under enemy control, which we all but in name abandoned and have been retreating from since 09′. Kunar and Nuristan are almost entirely under enemy control. They are now used as jump off points West to Kabul, North to Kunduz and Mazar, and East into Pakistan. One last point, our… Read more »