The VFW PAC issue revisited
My friends have weighed in on the VFW PAC issue, which I started last week. Mr Wolf from Blackfive has a post at Breitbart’s Big Peace and he’s still advocating that you to burn your VFW membership card. Well, I can’t do that – mine is aluminum. Yes, I’ve been a member that long – nearly twenty years as a Life Member.
That guy who calls himself Mothax, has a really well-written post up at The Burn Pit about the pitfalls of a VSO trying to remain non-partisan in a political environment. He approaches the subject from an historical perspective without dick-punching the VFW.
Me? I’m sticking it out for reform of the VFW PAC. I don’t know what their procedure is for endorsing a candidate, but obviously it’s wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. But, I don’t think that the answer is to disband a hundred-year-old organization. I’m also sure that organizations like VoteVets and IAVA are salivating at the thought of of the 2.1 million members of VFW, and their dues, in the wind.
And, admit it, all of those guys who wrote that THIS is the reason they won’t join the VFW now, were never going to join anyway. I’ve seen the power of blogs in relation to certain organizations, and I’m putting my money on the folks who stick rather than the folks who bail on the VFW.
Mr. Wolf says the VFW has kicked the can down the road by putting off for the next convention what they should be doing today. It’s only kicking the can down the road if that’s what we let them do. Mr. Wolf has a point, and I’ll admit that resigning my membership was my first reaction – but then I realized that it would probably do more damage than good.
It also worries me that some of the leftists have joined in the feeding frenzy.
But I’ll tell you what, as a twenty-year Life Member of the VFW, when a receptionist at the VFW PAC takes my name and number, and I’m like the VFW’s last ally on the internet…they’d better call me back. They’ve already called Bev Perlson back and she’s not even a member.
Category: Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, Iraq Veterans Against the War, Veterans Issues, VFW PAC
Still holding your breath?
Jonn… Honest question. I plan on attending my monthly VFW post meeting tomorrow (I’m on the board.) I want to bring this up, but at the same time I kind of don’t want to open that can of worms. What are your thoughts on addressing this issue and prospective COA at the local post level? My thought was to initially broach the subject by addressing concerns that this could hurt membership numbers.
I have to ask when regards to VFW posts and American Legion post the main thing I see is a bar for cheap drinks rather then a place for vets to talk about current military/veteran issues. That is one of the reasons that I have never followed up on joining the VFW or American Legion.
Many years ago I attempted to join the VFW, but was rejected – along with other VN vets. It was said to be a procedural issue, but the tone seemed negative at the time.
I did join eventually, and have been a Life Member since ’06.
Point is… I suspect that what we are seeing is yet more bureaucratic inertia rather than some nefarious plot.
My membership card gives me a voice, and I can always destroy it if or when needs be.
Sporkmaster… In my post, it seems to mean a lot to some of the old timers when younger combat vets show up for the cheap drinks.
“But I’ll tell you what, as a twenty-year Life Member of the VFW, when a receptionist at the VFW PAC takes my name and number, and I’m like the VFW’s last ally on the internet… they’d better call me back. They’ve already called Bev Perlson back and she’s not even a member.”
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And yet you’re still holding out hope for them? What is this, abused-wife syndrome? They’re giving more attention to a non-member than a life member, and you still defend them. I just don’t understand that. Along with kicking the can down the road RE: VFW-PAC’s endorsements, this seems like another sign they are not taking this seriously.
CPT Me-
I am attending my post meeting tomorrow night, and I will be raising the issue. As the Junior Vice, I think they’ll at least listen.
First I will explain the issue to the other members. Then I will ask for a motion that we withhold $100 in dues to National for each time the VFW PAC endorses a civilian with no military service over a combat veteran and VFW member.
By the way, John, this situation is very similar to your frustration over your local GOP a while back. The solution to both situations is what you advocate here-fight for what you know is right, and change things from the inside. If you give up on the group, there is no chance they will ever live up to your expectations.
Jonn, I don’t care how you came to the point of view and I don’t care who is to credit for convincing you of it.
I’m just glad there is another rational voice in the debate. I agree the endorsement list and criteria for it were wrong (it is designed to favor incumbents, period). But the organization is too important to give away.
Keep up the good work.
Sporkmaster:
MY VFW does scholarships,(the Patriots Pen & the Voice of Democracy), we go to the nearest VA and help the vets there through holding bingo right at the Bonham VA. We donate money to various churches, the Boys & Girls club, the Boy Scouts, the Civil Air Patrol, the Cub Scouts and even various public schools. We hold fundraisers for various charities, most recently the “Tools for Schools” Motorcycle Ride and fundraiser. We participate in parades. We’ve donated almost $2000 to the new Eisenhower Memorial being built in Denison, TX. We have a Veterans Relief Fund which enables us to help our veterans in times of need. Our Ladies Auxiliary holds Bingo on Friday Nights & veterans from the Bonham VA come to our post and the Ladies Aux feeds them along with playing some bingo where they usually win some money. I DO know that it is much appreciated. So, don’t even attempt to tell me that the VFW does nothing but have cheap drinks. Our canteen (the bar) loses money every month. It’s a “benefit” for our members and their guests. It’s also a place to hang out and enjoy some camaraderie. We’re a small Post and only have a handful of active members. And yet, we seem to contribute a lot to the community. We also assist with the Military Assistance Program, Unmet Needs and many other veterans programs which the National VFW maintains. I’m the Post Quartermaster, which means I take care of all of the books, pay the bills, etc.
Because you AREN’T a member and don’t attend the monthly Post meetings, you can’t see what the VFW actually does because you’re not “in the loop”. I rarely miss one, even though there are times I don’t feel physically up to it.
And for the rest of y’all….. GET to the meetings!! MAKE your voices heard !! We intend on discussing this very issue at our monthly meeting this Thursday. The majority of our members are pissed, too. (We have a couple of “Liberals”. Nobody’s perfect!!)
Jonn: I’ve posted the procedures behind the VFW-PAC’s endorsements in several places. You’re right, The procedures are WRONG!! I’m starting to feel like a broken record, but here’s their procedures in a nutshell: Senators must vote in favor of legislation pertinent to veterans issues 7 times (I may have said 6 earlier, I was wrong) Congressmen/women must do the same, but at least 10 times. Once they’ve done that, they get the endorsement. The procedure is completely biased against newcomers, regardless of veteran’s status or not. It only takes into account what the incumbent has done in favor of the Veteran. It is also ripe for compromise because that Congressman or Senator can vote for a bill that they know will NEVER pass or vote for a popular bill that’s assured to pass and STILL obtain an endorsement.
One more thing…….
The very reason that the VFW is holding off until the next National meeting is that HOW the VFW works!! It’s in their by-laws. It is a situation that MUST be voted on by the entire National VFW Membership through their delegates. In essence, they’re following their own rules. To abolish the PAC singlehandedly is tantamount to 0bama issuing his “Executive Orders”. It fails the test of Democracy, which is how ALL of the Posts, Districts, States & National VFW entities work. They are an organization based on Democracy. Apparently this is a concept that fails Mr. Wolf as I’ve attempted to explain that to him over on BlackFive.
“They are an organization based on Democracy.”
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Except when it comes to the VFW-PAC’s political endorsements. In that case, they endorse who they want based not on democracy — a vote by the VFW members — but on some arbitrary shitty procedures.
Michael, I won’t argue that the PAC uses some absurd sort of method in their endorsements, however, the “Democracy” part was meant as far as how the VFW actually works, NOT the PAC.
Read more here:
http://thors-spot.blogspot.com/2010/10/how-vfw-pac-works.html
[…] coffers of member dues, and they’ll change far quicker.”John Lilyea, a military blogger at This Ain’t Hell and 20-year member of the VFW, shares Wolf‘s frustration but says he’s sticking with […]
[…] Lilyea, a military blogger at This Ain’t Hell and 20-year member of the VFW, shares Wolf‘s frustration but says he’s sticking with […]
[…] Lilyea, a military blogger at This Ain’t Hell and 20-year member of the VFW, shares Wolf’s frustration but says he’s sticking with […]
Sporkmaster,
To add to what Thor said, my local post is also active in the community. I am a life member of the Delmar, MD post but often stop by the Baton Rouge post on the way home for, you guessed it, drinks. I’ve only attended one meeting so far (I plan to start attending regularly but can never remember the dates) and at that meeting it was proposed and accepted to start a weekly steak night (after another local club stopped doing so) to help increase donations. As I am not an officer I don’t see where money and effort goes too often, but I do know that the post has helped a few would-be homeless vets in the past year or so. I also seem to run into post officers throughout the community while doing my own job.
#17 is me; sorry ’bout that…
If the bylaws state that the earliest they can take any action on it is next convention, then that’s the best they can do. What the PAC SHOULD do, IMHO, is to pull ALL endorsements and say that for this election cycle they won’t be endorsing ANYONE until the situation is rectified.
It’s a situation that may piss more people off than it pleases, but it seems that this is in fact the most fair and equitable way to deal with the issue this close to the elections.
THERE IS NOTHING that prevents the PAC chief and the national commander (who appointed him) from resigning.
NOTHING.
Do so immediately, gentlemen. This will show you are serious…not just punting it down the road for the next admin or election cycle.
The longer they delay, the more convinced I am that they truly are behind these reprehensible endorsements.
Wolf
Spork,
Echoing what others have said here. Our Legion post does many of the other things mentioned (scholarships, supporting other local groups ie. Boy Scouts/Girl Scouts etc…) Also providing rides to veterans (members and mostly non-members) to the closest VA hospital (about 40 minutes away) Even the bingo nights Thor mentioned above. While bingo might not sound like much these guys like company more than the bingo. Not all individual posts are created equal some do more, some less. Look around and go to a board meeting to really see what they have going on, I’m sure either the VFW or Legion would let you sit in on a meeting…mine did, that’s why I joined.
Jonn,
And, admit it, all of those guys who wrote that THIS is the reason they won’t join the VFW now, were never going to join anyway.
I probably fit that description, the main reason I haven’t joined is that I don’t have time to do all of the things I’d like to do with the Legion let alone joining another VSO. I’ll tell you what, If the VFW finds some good resolution to this whole mess I’ll join. I’m not quite with Mr. Wolf in his assesment that they “punted” I do beleive they are following their bylaws as they are established by dealing with this at their next National meeting. HOW they deal with it is what I’m interested in.
Interesting update on this. When I raised the issue at my post meeting tonight, I found out that the Department of Minnesota refuses to recognize the VFW PAC or fund it in any way because they don’t agree with the way candidates are chosen. So this obviously isn’t a new issue.
Rather than quitting the VFW, let our local post know what is going on.
Sounds like if more state VFW organizations refuse to fund the PAC they might take the hint.
Perhaps they are hearing us…VFW PAC will be dead at next convention.
Help me make a huge voting block by coming to VFW Post 350 with your memberships.
http://www.vfw.org/index.cfm?fa=news.newsDtl&did=5596
VFW Leadership Un-Endorses Candidates…
Veterans have spoken and the VFW Leadership could not help but hear. “As determined in the VFW By-Laws, as the national officers, we have specific responsibilities to take definitive action when events can have a detrimental impact on the organization…
And now for your reading dismay:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1010/VFW_PAC_wont_rescind_endorsements.html
It appears that despite the call from the National Commander, the VFW-PAC has decided to stick by their endorsements.
According to my sister, a state VFW AUX President, the shitstorm that hit the VFW this week was unlike anything they had ever seen. At the convention the VFW National Commander stated that the VFW no longer supports the PAC in any way shape or form and would not ever do so again. All financial ties are broken. The Aux, which has 540,000 members who each donate $5 to the PAC, has cut all ties and shut off the money. They have all had enough. Looks like the PAC can go it alone somehow.
It appears that despite the call from the National Commander, the VFW-PAC has decided to stick by their endorsements.
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Brilliant. So the VFW creates a PAC that supposedly is to represent the VFW. Yet, the PAC endorses political candidates, about whom the VFW members themselves have no say. But those political candidates can now go around saying “I’m endorsed by the VFW!”
Brilliant. Great job creating a PAC that uses your reputation to endorse POS candidates who then turn around a f you over.
Looks like the PAC can go it alone somehow.
Well, if the PAC was formed by the VFW, is named after the VFW and gets its donations from the VFW, I don’t see how it can continue to be in existence if the VFW no longer supports it.
Maybe they’ll change their name to IVAW-PAC? Then, they’ll just need to erase the F, put in an A and add an I to the front and voila! they’re all set.
Guess this has been coming for sometime. My sister was in DC a little while ago and a bunch of the ladies stopped by the PAC, to whom they gave a bunch of money every year, to say hello and see what they were working on and were pretty much told that they had no say over what the PAC did and were asked to leave. This was the final straw.
I think that any VFW member who is serious about staying in the organization to reform it ought to be planning an alternative slate of candidates for VFW national leadership. The VFW-PAC voting members were all, *ALL*, appointed by the VFW Commander, so the VFW leadership is greatly at fault.
And as spokesmen for vets, I think TAH, WOTN, and – if he’s willing – Wolf at Blackfive, should be rallying points to promote a completely new slate of candidates to take over leadership of national VFW.
Vic, the Leadership has spoken clearly against the PAC. The Leadership was elected at the last convention (Aug 2010) which leads me to believe it was a previous National Commander that selected the current PAC board.
http://waronterrornews.typepad.com/home/2010/10/pac-proves-its-not-the-vfw.html
Hold up now. The National Commander was just seated this past August. I think it’s safe to say that he had NO HAND in appointing them. Give him a chance to do his job, for crying out loud. His letter demonstrated that he has the organization’s best interests at heart and has heard the vociferous outcries from the membership. Blaming the current National Commander for this is like blaming GWB for 9-11.
So, instead of taking a non-partisan stand, the VFW-PAC has apparently “gone rogue”, to quote WOTN Editor. It’s time to withhold all funding, revoke their use of the VFW logo, and any other copyrighted materials, again to use WOTN Editors words.
In MY opinion, members of the VFW and even the general public should disregard the PAC’s endorsements and vote for the candidate of their choice.
Fair points, Editor and Thor. If the current board is new, can’t blame them for this.
@ Vic: Let me clarify; the VFW-PAC board is NOT new. They have been there a while, if not TOO long. The National Commander and the chain of command within the VFW, itself, are new to those chairs.