Were Confederates terrorists?
Claymore sent me an article this morning from Roland S. Martin, one of those CNN political analysts who tries to make the case that the Confederates were somehow terrorists in the image of Muslim jihadists. Apparently, he’s somewhat butt-hurt because he got a slew of emails and tweets that told him he was wrong and because he’s minor opionist, he feels the need to defend himself. After recalling some of his detractors’ remarks, he asks;
If you take all of these comments, don’t they sound eerily similar to what we hear today from Muslim extremists who have pledged their lives to defend the honor of Allah and to defeat the infidels in the West?
Um, no. Standing here nearly a century and change in the future from the beginning of that war, I can clearly say that I’m not a supporter of slavery, and I can probably say that I wouldn’t have been a big slavery proponent in 1861. My great-great grandfather, George Washington Twitchell, traveled from Massachusetts to Indiana (a fur piece in those days, I’m certain) to join the 44th Indiana Regiment – the other side of my family was still in Europe, so I’m pretty sure they didn’t have an opinion on the war. So my familial credentials are established.
Martin begins his article with superficial talking points;
When you make the argument that the South was angry with the North for “invading” its “homeland,” Osama bin Laden has said the same about U.S. soldiers being on Arab soil. He has objected to our bases in Saudi Arabia, and that’s one of the reasons he has launched his jihad against us. Is there really that much of a difference between him and the Confederates? Same language; same cause; same effect.
Really? bin Laden is really all that concerned with US bases in Saudi Arbia/ Then why isn’t he leading armor columns against those bases? How many Saudis have stolen weaponry, or tried to attack Americans in Saudi Arabia in the age of bin Laden. it seems most of the terrorist attacks in Saudi Arabia have been directed at Saudi emplacements and figures, not Americans.
If a Confederate soldier was merely doing his job in defending his homeland, honor and heritage, what are we to say about young Muslim radicals who say the exact same thing as their rationale for strapping bombs on their bodies and blowing up cafes and buildings?
What homeland are the jihadists defending? The Taliban and al Qaeda are/were largely a mish-mash of nationalities. And what attempts have been made by Americans to occupy any shit hole in the Middle East? Haven’t we sponsored elections and honored the outcomes? And how many Confederates saw unarmed civilians as a legitimate target for slaughter?
If the Sons of Confederate Veterans use as a talking point the vicious manner in which people in the South were treated by the North, doesn’t that sound exactly like the Taliban saying they want to kill Americans for the slaughter of innocent people in Afghanistan?
So the Confederates marched into the various Maryland and Pennsylvanian towns in 1862 and 1863 and murdered the northerners they found there? Some Maryland towns celebrated the arrival of Confederates.
Just as radical Muslims have a warped sense of religion, Confederate supporters have a delusional view of what is honorable. The terrorists are willing to kill their own to prove their point, and the Confederates were just as willing in the Civil War to take up arms against their fellow Americans to justify their point.
It’s easy to make that comparison standing a score of decades in the future and forgetting that what State you called home had more import than what country before the Civil War.
As a matter of conscience, I will not justify, understand or accept the atrocious view of Muslim terrorists that their actions represent a just war. They are reprehensible, and their actions a sin against humanity.
And I will never, under any circumstances, cast Confederates as heroic figures who should be honored and revered. No — they were, and forever will be, domestic terrorists.
For an ignorant pseudo-intellectual who prefers to judge events outside of the context of their times, that probably seems rational, but for an historian, who is not trying to provoke a political furor, it’s just stupid. Everyone knows that the Constitution was in it’s infancy in 1861 and there were (and are) important questions to be answered about what it can and can’t do. The Civil War settled some of those questions. And since the Constitution accommodates revolution with the Second Amendment, what happened in the South was was almost a perfectly natural thing, and arguably legal, given the primacy of States’ governments in those years.
We’ve all learned lessons from the Civil War, and only a few cranks are convinced that they can force the government to bend to their will with arms. I don’t see very many of them acting on it though – mainly because they’re just cranks.
I also don’t see many historical accounts of Southern forces intentionally terrorizing civilian populations – the main tactic of terrorists around the world – so the comparison is hardly legitimate. The Confederates were also not intent on ruling the world or forcing their particular beliefs on anyone outside of the Confederacy. They asked other countries for money, but they never forced anyone to pay them under the threat of force.
I just thinks that it’s strange that someone from CNN can finally form the word “terrorist” and it’s aimed at his own country.
Category: Media
I’d say it’s far more likely Roland Martin is a race-baiting crapweasel.
That’s pretty close, Sparky. As for my familial roots, none of them were here at the time of the civil war. Yes, they were still back in the fatherland and I’m pretty sure they were more interested in what was going on over there, at that time, than what was going on in the US over the states rights issue, which is what the civil war was really about. That the state of Virginia didn’t even enter the confederacy until after the attack at Ft. Sumter should tell this intellectual lightweight all he needs to know about what started his little whinefest about the Governor and the confederate speech he made.
Hey, I bet they shouted the n-word a lot too, and not as the “lyric” to a rap song.
Actually most of al Qaida’s targets in Saudi Arabia have been Westerners.
Though it should be noted that we were in Saudi Arabia at the invitation of the Saudi government and bin Laden’s argument was not that we were occupiers, it was that infidels were defiling the place. Besides, there is numerous evidence that points to the fact that al Qaida was always anti-infidel, even in the days when we supposedly “supported” them.
Oh well. Leave it to pseudo intellectuals to miss what is right in front of their face. Al Qaida has not even attempted to hide the fact that they view infidels as disgusting germs in need of eradication.
Furthermore,
al Qaida has been involved in both genocide against black Christians in Sudan and the slave trade.
Why that gets little or no press is beyond me.
Man, just the other day I was reading about a carbomb at the gates of the US Government FOB in Atlanta set off by the Sons of Confederate Veterans…They shouted Lee is Great and them “BLAMMO!!!!”
Radical Confederism must be outlawed.
I just love how the use of the word Confederate or Confederacy drives some liberals in to foaming moonbats.
Bravery was displayed on both sides and if anybody used terroristic tactics I would like to remind Mr Martin of a name which lives in infamy in the south.
William Tecumseh Sherman. I think he wore a blue uniform or something.
My ancestors fought for the Confederacy. They served as both enlisted and officers in regiments from Texas, North Carolina, and Alabama. Some of my ancestors owned slaves. In fact, there are descendants of those slaves who have the same last name as me.
I have read either the originals, or copies, of many of their letters and diaries, and can assure you that NONE of them fought FOR slavery. Slavery was an ancillary issue not so much because of it’s economic value per se, but because Northern states fought to keep Southern states in a condition of minority representation in Congress. they did this by demanding that the US Census only count blacks as 3/5ths of a white person. The South was outraged because it denied them representatives in Congress through manipulating the census count. Northern states argued that since slaves couldn’t vote, they shouldn’t count. Southern states argued that women couldn’t vote either, so what was the difference?
Anyway, the one part of the entire issue that leftists want buried is that slavery wasn’t just a “white” thing. The 1860 census shows thousands of free blacks, living in southern states, who ALSO owned slaves. It is a real “inconvenient truth” and puts the lie to the whole “white aristocracy” theme that leftist pundits toss about.
These folks can’t stand it when facts get in the way of their storyline, which is why I try and fill my magazines with facts before going into battle with these idiots. It makes the sparring so much more interesting when you can call them out on their lies and fantasies.
There were a few units on both sides that could have been legitimately called terroists. They were they exception, not the norm. Also, both sides fought in their respective uniforms, they did not try to blend in with the people in orfer to hide behind them while fighting. Those that did not were spies and if caught, usually met a swift and final justice.
Let us take his arguement at face value at run with it. Okay, the Confederates were terrorists. So what happened to them. Did the Union set up unilateral talks and give them large sums of money to please stop? No the Union engaged in total warfare and crushed the Confederacy. All economic means were put to the torch, the Union left a swath of ashes behind it. Did the Union allow a ROE that tied the hands of its forces? No. if you were a Confederate soldier or symapthizer you were fair game. I am not advocating for a total war approach, but don’t try and choose one small aspect of a conflict and compare it to the modern situation without taking in account all aspects of the conflict. Mr. Martin are you advocating Union policies be implemented in the War on Terror?
Like every liberal who tries to equate a soldier with a terrorist, Martin proves himself to be a grade school idiot.
The Confederacy was nation with a sovereign government, geographic borders and a uniformed military that adhered to the law of war and fought under a national banner.
Terrorists have none of those attributes. It’s not WHAT you are fighting for that makes you a terrorist, but HOW you fight.
Martin doesn’t deserve to be on an elementary school newspaper let alone a cable news network.
The North fired first, the Confederacy defended itself.
The CSA more adhered to the Constitution than the North, and seceded according to law.
Lincoln gave no emancipation until 1863, nearly 3 years AFTER the first shots on Ft Sumter. The South fought for Constitutional states rights.
Idiot “historians” need to learn reality….or just shut the fuck up.
As a son of the South with many family that fought the damnyankees (yes its actually one word) I am constantly amazed by the total lack of knowledge most Americans have about what is one of the single most important periods in our history.
Comparing soldiers of the CSA with AL Qaeda? WTF?
wtf is right. One has to be neither a Confederate supporter nor from the South to see the fallacy in this argument.
I’m proud to be from the south and proud that my ancestors on both sides joined the battle on the side of the south. 10th Ky Cav and 22nd Va Cav. I joined the United States military and went to war. When the racist democrats run out of words they try to slander the confederate side of the war. I see another civil war coming to this country and since democrats were the major slavers and founders of the KKK to try and keep slavery going I guess they’ll all be rounded up and slaughtered.
And lets not forget the 4 or 5 Union Slave States! Hypocrit Yankees burn my Reb Azz. I’m proud to live in the South and just love all this revissionist History thats being spewed out by a bunch of self loathing Libtards. Hell I can’t wait for Ga and Tx to push back against the Fed Gov’t and the Socialist Nanny state.
“Southerners are truly our warrior class.” – Ann Coulter, Feb. 15, 2000
It’s all about “demonizing”. As long as you can demonize something that isn’t, you don’t have to debate it intelligently. So, demonize the Tea Party, no debate they’re evil, demonize the Confederate Soldier, no debate, they’re evil. It’s the same as the phoney comparisons of the last administration to Hitler. You support them, your a Nazi, no debate and only racist murderers would support Hitler. Then you have the idiot class in America that hear the demonization and bingo..they believe. No questions, no debate, X is evil so I can hate it and not listen to intelligent debate about it. You want to debate it? Your evil.
Honor and Courage
You hit the nail on the head 1AirCav69. A lot of the political “debte” lately has been in this vein. Its the same thing as Obama=stalin. ir healthcare reform is socialism. A lot of the pundits just want to make you angry and make you afraid.
Oh, you mean like the Bush=Hitler “debate”, or the Veterans=r-wing terrorists “debate”, or the TeaParty=racists “debate?” Thanks for clearing that one up for us, doc.
Sparky:
Have I done any of the above? BTW, there are plenty of Obama=Hitler signs out there running around. (I know signs don’t run, but you know what I mean.) We’re all too busy yelling at each other to get anything done.
You don’t mean Obama=Hitler pictures like these, do you? They’re supporters of the perennial Democrat candidate Lyndon LaRouche.
Hey, genius–did I say YOU PERSONALLY did it? You want to hit me with that nice broad brush of yours, be ready when it comes back at your kind. And last time I checked, the Obama-Hitler signs are a product of LarouchePAC–you remember him–that guy who ran for President seven times AS A DEMOCRAT???
Seriously, if you’re gonna come, come correct, m’kay?
Thanks for proving my point sparky:
Hitting either one of us with a broad brush is counter productive. Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan both ran for president several times a republicans. What’s your point? As near as I can tell you are another one of those “its okay if we do it” kind of cats. I thought you were serious about discussing how to improve our country. My mistake.
There were also some at the Tea Party in Charlotte. I doubt they were La Rouchites, but they could have been. My point is that there is name calling and spilling from both sides. I’, not saying that we can all get along all the time, but we should be able to really discuss these issues.
What’s to discuss, doc? Your side has been pushing the “dissent is patriotic” meme for eight years, then when your guy gets into power, all of a sudden it’s racism to question him or his policies. Frankly, judging by the average posters/signs from either side, I’d say you might want to rethink that whole finger-pointing bit before you find yourself tapdancing around some very uncomfortable questions.
Sorry to PW, guys, but also, Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan are idiots. Like I said–look at the AVERAGE poster/protester and you’ll find that the TP protests are a whole lot more balanced (especially mentally) than the crap you’ve been slinging. I don’t tolerate racism, anti-Semitism, etc., but hey, if that’s your game, have at it. We call out our own, doc. You seem to think because you see ONE person at a TP with a hateful sign, that’s all that exists. Simply isn’t the case, and they’re called out on it, or asked to leave. Can you make the same claim of your brother liberals at your average protest? Seems in that camp it’s a game of who can come up with the most sickening shit.
This is a bit personal for me. My family fought against the Jayhawkers before the civil war started. When anything is brought up about that time it is always about how Lawrence was burnt to the ground and all the men and boys were killed. Forget about John Brown’s raids and General Order 11. My wife who is from Michigan doesn’t get why I hate Jayhawks so much.
Doc…I appreciate your service as a Corpsmen and all the men and women that served and are on this site. I have been around a lot longer than most of you and can honestly say that all the name calling vitriol started with my generation and their elitist attitudes. Some on the right side of the fence are doing it now with Obama but what is fascinating for me to watch are the reactions by the very people that started all this in the first place. As Sparky said and I must agree with is the “dissent is patriotic” bumper stickers and statements made at every anti-war rally or anything that had to do with the last administration. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, dissent is racism, nazism, etc. A shoe gets thrown at Bush and it’s the funniest thing ever. A Congressmen calls Obama a liar and you’d think he was Lee Harvey Oswald in a sheet and hood. Remember how much fun it was to mock Rice? Political cartoonist had a field day with her. If Obama would be drawn the same way in any newspaper they would be labeled a racist and probably lose their job plus be tried for a hate crime. My crappy sarcastic generation started all this crap and they are teaching their crappy children and grand children the same disrespect. Like the “cycle of domestic violence” I believe this will go on forever and I’m glad I only have so many years left. I refuse to call Obama Stalin/Nazi, or any of those other gross misrepresentations and most on the right of the fence aren’t doing it either. The ones that are are no better than the left who kept calling Bush Hitler and all the other disrespectful names. I do believe Obama and the Congress are destroying America, but also believe we will survive this, I hope. I still don’t like the incessant arguing and name calling. It is better to try and be civil.
Two wrongs don’t make a right…..but 3 do!
Honor and Courage
I assume you can provide links to the pics of the posters, right Doc? At least, if you’re going to try to use that broad brush, you oughta link to it. Unless it has the LaRouche Pac tm on it, right?
And 1AirCav69 is spot on, this started with the long-haired hippies, and continues to this day. See the G-20 protests, the Republican National Convention for all those “peaceful” protests.
I don’t think that the current administration is anything near Nazis or USSR under Stalin. The rules and precidents that are beind set will make it easier for someone later to use those rules to their own ends. Unfortunately, the left isn’t very good at being farsighted. Their short-sighted view that they have doesn’t take into considerations the future reprecussions of their actions. They want what they want now…damn the future. One of these days when I have more time I will fully articulate my views on how they opperate. Their ethics are questionable and their logic is flawed at best.
1AirCav69, I agree our (we sound about the same age) generation was disgraceful, but have faith. Not everyone in it raised their children that way and not all of their children are raising the grandchildren that way. There are some pretty good young’uns out there. My two are Tea Party Patriots and the grandchildren go to the parties when possible. And I know mine aren’t the only ones. Of course, it probably helps that my two and my daughter-in-law were all Navy brats.
USNretwife,
I know they are not all the same. Actually all my nieces and nephews are pretty cool but their parents weren’t disrespectful, spoiled, draft dodging hippies, either. I do think though, that my generation are about the most worthless spoiled, spineless dorks I’ve ever met. The greatest generation was great, but lousy parents. They spoiled their children. I know they thought they were giving them everything they didn’t have, and their motives were good, but they sure raised a bunch of dicks. We had the cushiest birth of any generation and blew it. I do not attend High School reunions, and never will.
Honor and Courage