So you like socialized medicine?

| November 26, 2022


Canada has socialized medicine, right? I know we have some here (in the US, not necessarily on this forum) who think it should be mandatory here. But, like communism, the theory seems to be far divorced from the reality, and it’s coming to a head in Ontario, where the Health Ministry is asking doctors and clinics to extend their hours into evenings and all weekend, too. No mention of additional funding, just asking them to do it. And remember, under the socialized system, the Ministry IS their employer.

A notice from the Ontario’s Ministry of Health, asking primary care providers to stay open seven days a week in an effort to ease wait times in hospitals, is being met with disbelief by many medical workers.

The notice was sent by Nadia Surani, the director of the primary health care branch in the Ministry of Health. It addresses the issues that are plaguing hospitals this fall, with an onslaught of COVID-19, influenza and Respiratory syncytial virus, which is expected to continue into the winter.

Memo from Ministry of Health: *Highlighted Portions* "we are expecting high-volume pressures across our health system" "requesting your organizations to offer clinical services 7 days a week, including evening availability, until further notice, to meet the needs of your patients"Yahoo News

Who says the Canadians haven’t kept up with us – we worked our medical folks into the ground and fired ’em if they didn’t get vaxxed – Canada is taking a slightly more subtle approach and just asking them work 7 days a week and evenings with no mention of extra funding or pay.  Support for this in the Twitterverse is, shall we say, somewhat underwhelming.

Me, I lived with the military system, VA, and an extremely good HMO when I lived in the People’s Republic of Maryland. I’m OK with the concept of a centralized socialized medicine in theory, just like I am OK with socialism in theory.  But, in practice, these things just don’t seem to work out due to that unsavory human influence… which leaves us regarding free-market medicine like democracy: it may be less than ideal in many ways, but it’s miles ahead of whatever OTHER imperfect system is in second place.


Category: Canada, Health Care debate

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Top W kone

My civilian job is paramedic in a midsized city.

I wish our local docs would be open evenings and weekends. Many of my transports are people who feel sick, called the docs office after hours and were told “if you feel it is an emergency go to the emergency department” as well as try some over the counter stuff and make an appointment in three days.

Somehow they heard “the doctor is ordering me to call 911 right now!”

The result is overloaded ED’s. (I’ll tell you this sarcastic former drill sergeant has a struggle keeping in comments and volume under control)

Yes it is an emergency to them. They threw up once and have an upset tummy. They might die from dehydration if not treated right away by taking them to the waiting room of their choice.

I should note that there are a fair number of people who should have called 911 much sooner. And Vets tend to be the worst about it. The older the vet the more likely they delayed calling. They don’t want to tie up limited resource


No local “urgent care” that are 24×7?


Where I live, no. They all close at 5pm.


Odd. Quite a few around here are “after hours”. I have obtained x-rays and stitches in them, versus paying an ER to do it.

Sounds like a business opportunity, unless some local rule prohibits it, or artificially inflates costs to achieve same.


We have a couple around here that are open seven days a week but close at 1800. Urgent care outside of those hours is rare. There are no prohibitions it is just that people prefer to go to the hospital late at night and the business volume doesn’t support it.

We had one that was open 24/7 for nearly a year a couple of years ago. But it was a pill mill and got shut down and the doc was arrested by the DEA.

Top W kone

There are a few. But you have to self transport (state laws prohibit ambulances from transporting people to non-emergency departments if they call 911).

And people know they likely won’t see a doctor but instead a PA or NP.

I think there is some level of self promotion “I was so sick the ambulance drivers took me to the Hospital” vs “I was so sick I drove myself to the little clinic at the supermarket”


” (state laws prohibit ambulances from transporting people to non-emergency departments if they call 911).“.. Is that still the case Top? Here in Colorado they changed it during the China Virus, and we can now transport to urgent care..


Is cost-effective, comrade!


You know how they “control costs” in Socialized/Government run healthcare? Rationing. That’s right. When they have spent the allocated amounts to X-region for Y-procedures on Z-population, the treatments end until the next funding cycle.
“Oh, the pain is terrific every time you move? Come back in 2 weeks/months/next quarter and take we’ll good care of you then”
Of course, the elites in government have their own healthcare/can afford private care as “representatives of the people” even though the people can’t afford private care.
There are flaws in our current system, but its still the best for treatment. Do US doctors go overseas, or are those doctors coming here? When The House of Saud needs some extensive surgery, do they go to Toronto? No, they fly to NYC or LA for the best doctors.


Exactly! They control costs by only budgeting so much $$$– easier than negotiating or figuring out less expensive ways of doing stuff (bureaucrats, you know).


“Social” is typically a negative indicator.

“Social studies” does not involve actual studies.
“Social justice” does not involve actual justice.
“Social security” isn’t at all secure, especially for the recipients.

Socialized medicine isn’t really medicine. As it is for the health of the Party, not you. “Do the harm required by the State”, in an inversion of Hyppocrates.

Socialism = nihilism


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President Elect Toxic Deplorable Racist SAH Neande

I am SO stealing this to try to upload as an avatar. See how many people I can piss off


Years ago, my brother and his wife lived in the Detroit area and he told me how all along the US side of the boarder were medical specialists filling strip malls, servicing Canadians who couldn’t get things like MRI/CT scans in Canada without waiting months, but they could call for a same day appointment on our side of the boarder. I’m sure their NHS has it’s successes, but the fail sure seems to tip the scales.


Same thing in Vermont currently, cash and carry for procedures.


I think one of the biggest successes of the NHS, even for the people who see doctors here, are the prices for medicine on their side of the border.

Which way the scales tip depends more on what you need, I think.


You whacky leftists with your crazy ideas and no knowledge of history or even current events. I am yet again disappointed in LC.

That wasn’t the NHS and had absolutely nothing to do with it. That was the PMPRB, established by Parliament in 1987 that imposed price controls and regulated royalties for drug companies. This actually makes drug prices higher in the US. Yahoo, go Canada.


ZERO insulin is produced in Canada, its imported from the U.S and sold at a loss, The U.S diabetics now pay to cover the loss for the drug companies.
Nobody rides for free.


The PMPRB only looks at what it cost to make the drug and ship it North. R&D, Testing, Compliance, Product Liability Insurance, etc, etc. are not included.

The irony on the insulin is of course that a Canadian doctor was the one that first developed it for use in humans.


Mea culpa. I interpreted NHS as ‘health care in general, including the costs of medicine’, and didn’t know that the PMPRB was separate.

Since you do know more about this, I’m curious how Sapper’s statement that insulin is sold at a loss in Canada works — why would the companies that do make it here sell it for a loss?


That’s the effect of a ‘government intervention even though it’s amoral and reaps no sustainable positive outcomes’ cause.

They cannot create, only destroy by theft, malinvestment, and over regulation.


Government is a hammer. Pay enough, or otherwise have sufficient influence, and the hammer falls repeatedly on one’s intended target.

Folks who like that concept, or who want a bigger hammer, forget they are also someone’s target.

In the end, everyone gets hammered.


Firstly, this is all misleading since doctors are paid on a by patient basis instead of a salary. Doesn’t matter what day of the week they see them, they still get paid. All they are saying is that people get sick seven days a week and most doctors only work five, so it would be a lot better if they worked seven. This is mismanagement at it’s finest.

Secondly No, hard pass on socialized medicine. In Quebec there are nearly 1 million people on the waiting list just to get a doctor. They are behind on practically everything and have waiting lists for everything that the VA would be in awe of.

Thirdly, if we didn’t have recreational drug abuse in this country we could shut about 1/3 the hospitals down tomorrow. Last year we had 109K overdose deaths. This is the tip of the iceberg of the millions who overdose and have lots of other drug related medical problems that tie up the system.


“so it would be a lot better if they worked seven”

I think politicians should adopt be forced to live by the motto of the Infantry School—“Follow Me”. On the other hand, they already do too much damage on the days they already “work”.


And on the southern border, hospitals are going broke because illegal aliens use the ED as their primary care provider. And don’t pay. But it’s OK, Mayorkas fired Magnus, so the border is once again secure.


Vote Democrat for more, kids!
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A Proud Infidel®™

Yep, I was about to mention that, Illegal Aliens will go straight to some ER over a simple case of the sniffles knowing that it’s a violation of Federal Law for them to be turned away, and payment? That’s when they suddenly don’t understand a word anyone is saying and they disappear leaving everyone else with their tab, that’s why so many hospitals near the Border have gone belly-up!


Feature, not a bug.

Prove me wrong.


Ten years living in Hell Paso… can’t do it, Dog.

The illegal alien hit-and-run drunk driving fiasco that was I-10 every day makes for cynicism. Another fatality– no policia, no big!


It isn’t just the South border, it is everywhere. We had an Ecuadorian illegal who about bankrupted our local hospital with seven months in ICU. He checked into the hospital as soon as he got off the plane.


True SFC D, my fathers fiance was a nurse in Arizona for 20+ yrs, and I was shocked to learn how many Mexicans jump the boarder not to stay here, but to suck up care in a ER and then cross back home.

jeff LPH 3 63-66

If the Canadian socialized medicine is so great, how come Canadians come to the US for medical treatments.


Nine months to a year waiting list for a urgent life-saving operation?


Never trust a “Director” of “Health” that doesn’t understand ‘pandemic’.

Like most systems of tyranny, with the crack pots that run them, freedom and sanity be a pickax-to-foreheads away.

Exercise that ‘no’ muscle and prepare to 3-Rs.


[…] below the fold, check out This ain’t Hell…, with a post on people who like socialized […]

The Pirates Cove


The free sh^t stops when they run out of other people’s money.


Have any of you anti-socialist people stopped to think why you have those feelings?

It is because of financial interests want you to think that so they feed you a stream of disinformation about things like socialized medicine so you’re ignorant to its benefits?

My wife is a Dutch woman and the government of Netherlands and the European Union (EU) looks after their citizens by protecting them from medical gouging, crappy products which last a year then fail (like durable goods)

My wife pays $100 USD a month for full medical and $20 for full dental. Anything that happens, she’s covered. We won’t go bankrupt if she (or I) get sick. That only happens in the USA.

She may pay a little more in taxes but the Dutch government leverages tax dollars to keep costs in check, to force business not to sell crappy goods which fail after months and life in the EU is generally better than in the USA.


Was waiting for this particular fallacy. Rationing is the norm in your EU Socialist Paradice. Want to see a specialist? Wait. Want elective surgery? Good luck with that.

In 2006, the Dutch government switched their health care funding model from one centered around government to a private model. From one year to the next, private insurance plans increased their funding share of the country’s health care system from one third to two thirds.

In 2019, according to the OECD health care database, private health plans paid for more than 82% of Dutch health care. 

The transformation has paid off. In 1999-2005, prior to the reform, total costs of the Dutch health care system increased by 7.4% per year. In the seven years immediately after the reform, the increase dropped to an average of 4.7% per year. 

Socialized Medicine: California Dreaming of Europe ━ The European Conservative

Move there.


Oh my, Greg, looks like our very own Kid Squid, that’s AW/1Ed to you, sorta handed you your socialist ass right here in front of all these anti-socialist people, doesn’t it?

And it sure would be interesting to know just what a tax-loving lib like you considers “…a little more in taxes...” 🤔 

Last edited 1 year ago by Poetrooper

“life in the EU is generally better than in the USA”

Thus the caravans of migrants streaming across the borders.
Yearning to be free. I’ll leave the question of which borders up to the student as an exercise.