Vietnam Veteran brothers facing deportation

| November 17, 2021

Valenzuela Brothers (Manuel, left and Valente, right)

Last night PBS aired a film title “American Exile” about the two men pictured above. They are the Valenzuela brothers, Manuel and Valente, who claim to be Vietnam Veterans and who were/are facing deportation. Valente has self-exiled (i.e. self-deported) to Mexico while Manuel is still here and working the activist angle. NBC News refers to their story as “Shameful for America”.

We have no records of their service in hand, so we only have the Valenzuelas’ statements and the images they present of themselves. The above photo isn’t just related to the film. This is on their website and even plastered on the side of a motorhome. 

From what they’re wearing, I immediately have questions. Manuel claims to have been a combat Marine in Vietnam. With this in mind, I notice some issues with his uniform;

  • His awards and decorations don’t support combat service, since he’s not wearing a Combat Action Ribbon.
  • The lack of campaign stars on his Vietnam Service Medal is also suspicious, but not impossible.
  • He’s a lance corporal wearing the belt buckle of an NCO
  • He’s got a nametag on.

At least the medals Manuel is wearing are in the correct order. As for Valente. His uniform is displaying some incongruities as well;

  • Most glaringly, he’s got a star on his Combat Infantryman Badge, which indicates a second award. None of his awards, decorations, or claims indicate combat service during multiple eligibility periods.
  • As with his brother, Valente’s Vietnam Service Medal is without campaign stars. Again this is odd, but not impossible.
  • It’s also interesting he’s wearing a Navy Commendation Medal. US Army members did receive naval awards, but it was unusual.

The brothers’ story first came out during the stepped up deportation conducted during the Obama-Biden Administration around 2009 and for the next few years. In 2012, the LA Times discussed the case;

Brothers Manuel and Valente Valenzuela still don their dress blue military uniforms with the ramrod-straight posture from their Vietnam War days. Manuel, a former Marine, carried out rescue missions. Valente, an Army soldier, was wounded and received a Bronze Star. [Editor’s note: Valente is not wearing a Purple Heart in any photos I can find that wound indicate or support a claim of being wounded in combat.]

The brothers, both in their 60s, are now waging a legal battle against an unexpected foe: the U.S. government. They are trying to stop the country they served from deporting them to Mexico.

Dig far enough down though, and the Times gets to the crux of their problem;

The Valenzuela brothers, both of whom were born in Chihuahua, Mexico, and brought into the country as children by their U.S.-born mother, said they gave little thought to their legal status as the years passed and that nothing prevented them from getting work or receiving their veterans’ benefits.

The brothers, who both live in Colorado, argue that they believed citizenship was granted to them when they took their oath of induction before heading off to war. “When we rose that hand, we figured we were American citizens,” Manuel said. “We pledged our allegiance to the U.S. and we still have that within ourselves.”

That’s a very misguided belief, because it’s never been automatic to get citizenship once you take the oath of enlistment. They’re facing deportation because of their criminal conduct after their time in the service;

The Valenzuelas’ criminal records, according to the brothers and their attorney, Dennis Hartley, include only misdemeanors: Manuel for disorderly conduct and resisting arrest; Valente for domestic violence. The offenses were committed more than 10 years ago, they said.

My San Antonio recounted a similar story in 2013, in which the men are photographed again in their uniforms exactly as worn in the photo above;

Manuel, 61, is a former Marine who carried out rescue missions, and Valente, 65, was an Army soldier who was wounded in combat and received a Bronze Star. Both were born to a mother who was a native of New Mexico but were erroneously listed as resident aliens on their birth certificate. They said the military told them would make sure they were given citizenship after serving.

Personally, if I was not listed as a citizen by birth, I’d double check that that got fixed. I certainly wouldn’t trust some nameless, faceless bureaucracy to fix it. It’s best to be your own advocate on this stuff. I’d expect an NCO to know this.

I return now to the NBC piece published yesterday. Regular readers here will immediately have their ears perk up at the claims made about their service;

During the Vietnam War, one of Valente Valenzuela’s grim tasks in the Army was collecting body parts from the battlefield, and then taking them to the dump. The young soldier experienced unimaginable horrors during his tour of duty. Once, to save his own life, he was forced to decapitate a violent terror suspect.

It’s reported that Manuel “carried out rescue missions”. That’s a vague enough statement it could mean literally anything. While it conjures images of Operation Eagle Claw, the Son Tay Prison Raid, or the rescue of Private Lynch, it could equally mean his platoon once came to the relief of another platoon engaged with the enemy.

Around these parts we certainly believe that non-citizens who serve honorable in the military deserve citizenship. Personally, I could see a major benefit to creating an American Foreign Legion modeled after the French system. Serve your time and you get the reward. They should have gotten their issues fixed when they were offered the help from their chain of command.

We also tend to think around here that non-citizens pleading or being found guilty of a crime, especially ones like domestic violence or fighting with police, are rightfully placed on the outbound list. Military service (and the resulting PTSD from such) do not negate criminal conduct later in life. We get fancy license plates, a discount at Lowe’s, and some free meals on 11 November. We don’t get a “Commit some misdemeanors for free” pass as vets.

With NPRC backed up, we might never get any results to a FOIA request. Since we have no records in hand, we can’t refute any of their claims, but there are enough holes in the story we have questions.

Category: Crime, Veterans in the news, Vietnam

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Green Thumb

Taking body parts to the dump.

Yeah.

I wonder who forked over the cash for the uniforms they are wearing?

A PAC, perhaps?

rgr769

Hey, in the battle for Macho Grande, don’t you remember how we had to take all those random arms and legs to the dump?

A Proud Infidel®™

I’ll never get over Macho Grande.

charles w

I still have a drinking problem.

akpual

You’re too low charles

Daisy Cutter

I’ve never had a problem drinking.

Charles

Go to that “My San Antonio” web site and the first image that pops up is Valente (The long white hair brother) wearing a beret (green? black?) with a Screaming Eagle Patch (101st Airborne Division – Air Assault) but without the required “Airborne” tab.
He is also wearing officer Infantry branch insignia (crossed rifles) on his left pocket flap!?

Planet Ord

That’s my uniform is jacked the eff up. 2 CIBs, but he’s an E5? A BSM just thrown up there. The lower qualification badge is on the wrong side. No infantry branch discs. He’s got AG discs.

What a soup sandwich!

Dennis - not chevy

Are the stripes (bands or whatever they’re called) at the end of the sleeve correct for an E5?

rgr769

In the “My San Antonio” pic Army bro is wearing one service stripe, so I would like to know how he was awarded a second award of the CIB in one enlistment. Last I checked, we only had one war going on in the 1960’s to 1970’s.

Dennis - not chevy

As I look at the Army bro, the left sleeve looks like it has an upside Lt.(j.g.) stripe.

rgr769

No, the Army enlisted dress blue jacket has a sleeve stripe in the same yellow shade as the epaulet piping. Above it on Army bro’s sleeve is the diagonal service stripe signifying three years active duty service. The officers uniform has a wider stripe with the officers branch color in the center. Army bro is wearing a correct enlisted dress blue uni; it is just that much of the bling on it is jacked up. My money is that they are both POSers.

Dennis - not chevy

Thanx

rgr769

Yes, the enlisted NCO sleeve has the same narrow yellow stripe parallel to the edge of the sleeve.

Only Army Mom

Well, it can’t be Bad Orange Man and Evil Republican’s fault because this is going on now, under the Brandon Administration.

Still, queue the incoherent, shrill squawking of our spawn of a seagull and howler monkey in 3…2…

When are the honorable Viet Nam vets going to collectively sue these media outlets for defamation of character when it is proven these two lied and never did what they say they did?

Will these two get charged with Stolen Valor for their impersonations and seeking of the tangible benefit of remaining in this country? Then again, they probably did and do receive more tangible benefits (money) for being here illegally.

I caught a Georgia cold and it is making me surly so others may have a less harsh view.

Charles

Oh, and close-ups of his enlisted branch insignia show it to the the “shield” of the Adjutant General Corps.
We referred to it at the “shield of shame” back in 1970 since AG soldiers were pencil pushing personnel clerks, usually assigned “clear and to the rear.”

That’s important because he is also wearing the Combat Infantryman Badge (as noted above, TWO awards!) but he is not infantry branch — as required — and has neither infantry brass nor the blue disks of an infantryman.

rgr769

It is obvious both uniforms were put together by people that never served in either the Corps or the Army. I couldn’t even get a CIB for my F.O’s RTO who volunteered to and was walking point with one of my rifle platoons. Because he was an Artillery O5B, he did not qualify for a CIB. Attached FO’s and their RTO’s were assigned to the artillery battery, even though they were in the field with an infantry rifle company.

SgtM

That is one f-Ed up set of Marine dress blues. Major alignment and placement issues. Turn those damn EGA’s around on his collar. Anchors go inward.

USMCMSgt (Ret)

Yeah, I also noticed the EGA’s on his collar are facing outboard.

Fail.

KoB

I believe I’ll move upwind a bit. Something don’t smell right. Maybe some chocolate will help. Snickers? Milky Way? Oh…Baby Ruth!

Daisy Cutter

Queue ‘Jaws’ music from ‘Caddyshack.’

A Proud Infidel®™

A discrepancy there, Baby Ruth bars don’t float, but they do indeed look like an actual brown schooner once they’re at the bottom of a swimming pool, I may or may not have actually seen it happen.

Skyjumper

“…..viewers see Valente toss his medals into the Rio Grande….”

Hmmmmm. Now who else comes to mind throwing their medals over fences? “Scary” coincidence, now isn’t it.

Yeah, the “taking body parts to the dump” and the second award of the CIB gives me pause about these two.

A Proud Infidel®™

Uhhhm correct me if I’m wrong, but the 2nd Award of the CIB would indicate he has been in more than one conflict, say Vietnam AND DS/DS or so on, I’m skeptical as hell of both of them and their claims.

SFC D

I read a touching Veteran’s day tribute on LinkedIn, written by the deceased WW2 Veteran’s daughter. Told a tale of his being awarded a “3-star Combat Infantry Badge, a very high honor”. I responded with ‘3-star CIB?”. No response as of yet.

Hondo

Actually, the Vietnam CIB period also includes Somalia. It began on 2 March 1961 and didn’t end until 10 Mar 1995 – a period of 44 years and 9 days.

Sapper3307
Veritas Omnia Vincit

Those two crimes are so vague in most principalities as to potentially be meaningless…disorderly conduct and resisting arrest can range from being drunk and unable to comply to being destructive and fighting with cops…the former is no barrier to citizenship for me as I don’t know the exact circumstances….and the second charge of domestic violence? I know far too many men falsely accused of that by vindictive exes to ever fully count that against someone without something more than the word of an angry ex.

If it turns out they served honorably and have been working and paying taxes here ever since deportation today seems nothing more than vindictiveness….we have a president whose kid did drugs during his time in the military and is getting tens of thousands of dollars for shitty paintings. I think letting a couple of vets stick around won’t break the bank here.

President Elect Toxic Deplorable Racist SAH Neanderthal B Woodman Domestic Violent Extremist SuperStraight

The question is; are they actually vets? Or posers?

Charles

Then what any reputable reporter would do is obtain a copy of the actual arrest warrants and judgments in those cases.

Scott

The one guy is 61 and claims service in Vietnam? So, born in 1960, he’d have been 15 during the fall of Saigon and the evacuation of the embassy. The other guy, at 65, could have been enlisted in the early ot mid seventies, but where did the second CIB come from? Let’s just call it what it is, a lie.

CRS

Scott,
You are assuming that ages 61 & 65 are today’s age. 61 & 65 are quoted from the My San Antone article which was published in 2013. So their birth years are 1952 & 1948.

Trapperfrank

Who the hell wears the dress uniform of their service 50 (+) years after the fact when the highest rank you achieved was E3? Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

Skyjumper

Army dress blues weren’t issued until 2010.
Since he claims to be a Viet of the Nam vet, where are his dress greens?

Too many red flags for both of them, Trapperfrank.

SFC D

The blue Army Service Uniform came out in 2010. Dress Blues have been around far longer. I can’t make out which blue uniform he’s wearing.

rgr769

Yes, back in the 1970’s the only Army personnel with dress blues were officers and very senior NCO’s. No E-5 had dress blues. These clowns would never had the money of event that would cause them to buy them or wear them. Yes, I know all enlisted Marines were issued dress blues, but if the Army brother is lying, so is the other one. This is all bullshit to avoid execution of their deportation orders. Guess they don’t want to pay a cartel to sneak back across the border.

TopGoz

Not every Marine is issued Dress Blues from boot camp. It’s been an on-again, off-again policy. When I graduated in 1979, only the honor graduates from each platoon were issued dress blues.

Hondo

One of our enlisted Vietnam Era Vets can correct me if I’m wrong, SFC D, but if I recall correctly I Dress Blues were neither issued to nor a mandatory uniform item for most enlisted troops during the Vietnam War era. So IMO wondering why the Army vet brother is wearing Dress Blues (optional purchase item) in the photo vice the issue Greens seems a fair question.

SFC D

They were never issued nor a required item during my term of service either (87-12). Anyone of any rank could purchase them and wear them for the appropriate occasion. I’m gonna go out on a limb and speculate some “journalist” was involved in the purchase of the uniforms on both of these individuals long after any alleged period of service. No slight was intended by my post and I apologize for any offense I may have cause.

rgr769

What? You don’t wanna get cancelled by a Progda “journalist?”

Chulai

Dress Blues we’re not standard issue back then, after my Vietnam tour I was sent to Sea School and they were issued at that time.

Steve 1371

I went thru Paris Island in 67. No dress blues were issued but they took our picture with a front side only dress blue jacket and white garrison cover. You had to purchase your own if you wanted. At a monthly pay rate of $86.00 not too many sales were made.
Those guys are full of it I think.

Retired Grunt

Retired and honorably discharged veterans who served during a period of conflict may wear the uniform they were proscribed at the time of service or the current uniform if one is chosen to be worn. I do what the VA recommends, I wear my medals on Memorial Day Veterans Day and sometimes Independence Day on a sport coat as I would have worn them if in uniform.

rgr1480

Retired Grunt:

Fixed it for you.

Retired and honorably discharged veterans who served during a period of conflict may wear the uniform they were prescribed at the time of service or the current uniform if one is chosen to be worn.

Proscribed means “forbidden/not allowed.”

Berliner

I, at the time a SGT/E5, purchased my dress blues in 1976 while in Recruiting School at Ft Benjamin Harrison, Indiana outside Indianapolis.

They are hanging ready with my MSG stripes and all my ribbons in my closet for the time when my wife needs to have me look “presentable” to others.

TopGoz

Speaking as a retired Marine, in addition to what was mentioned already, I notice the following discrepancies with the dress blues:
1. The Vietnam Campaign medal is way out of place. All four of the medals should be on the same line with the top of the ribbon and bottom of the medal aligned.
2. We don’t wear rifle qualification badges with medals.
3. Hey fuckstick: your Marine Corps collar emblems are backwards.
4. Several of the buttons are turned sideways or upside down. (A boot lace through the rings on the back prevents that from happening, if you spent the money to get your coat buttonholed.)

Even a dirtbag LCpl should be able to get those things right.

Jay

Ya know, I had NEVER heard of the ‘bootlace through the rings on the back’. Good info. I spent 20 in and retired 4 years ago and spent a quarter damn century just twisting the damn things around.

SFC D

I was today years old when I learned that. Ya could’ve shared sooner!

TopGoz

I learned it from the Handbook for Marine NCOs… the older, thicker, red cover one.

Hatchet

Thank you for posting this, Mason.
Interesting article, I actually watched this docu last night.
As you alluded to and as I had throughout last night’s viewing – Questions. Hmmmm. Really think in spite of a potentially long lead-time in making a FOIA request, one should be made nevertheless. If nothing else for the ability to say ‘It’s true’ or conversely, being able to refute it and say ‘See, told ya so’.

Bottom line: If these brothers actually are playing on the contrived sympathies of the American public and trying to work-around Gov’t immigration policies – PBS documentary notwithstanding – they’ve got to be stopped. Full stop. Period.

NR Pax

“When we rose that hand, we figured we were American citizens,”

Your Recruiter lied to you. That’s nothing new.

Jay

Ouch. No where in there did it say the recruiter told them that. They just made the assumption….never make assumptions.

SFC D

Assumption is the mother of all fuckups.

26Limabeans

And speaking of mother, where is she and are these two guys actually brothers?
Any other family members out there?

NR Pax

It was just a joke.

rgr769

IMHO, neither of these turds served in either service. If they are in their in their 60’s they aren’t old enough to have served in combat in Vietnam. Also, the brother claiming service in two wars would not only be a buck sgt., and his medals look like they just came out of the box from Medals of America. They certainly don’t look like the original issue ones hanging in my love me box.

Hondo

No service in Vietnam appears to be absolutely true regarding the brother born in 1960; as noted above, he’d have been no older than 15 when Saigon fell in April 1975. IMO there’s absolutely no way he served in combat in Vietnam.

It’s theoretically possible that the older brother (born circa 1956) joined the military during the Vietnam War Era (he could have joined at age 17 in 1973). However, by then I’m relatively sure we had a “no 17-year-olds deployed to combat” policy. And other than Embassy Duty, US military presence in RVN largely ended by early/mid 1973 due to the Paris Peace Accords; US ground combat units had been withdrawn by late 1971.

If the older guy is the Marine, it’s at least theoretically possible he could have been involved in either the Mayaguez Rescue or possibly Operations Frequent Wind or Eagle Pull (all occurred in 1975). But I’d want to see verifiable proof before I’d buy it.

Retracted – analysis is not valid due to error in birth years pointed out by another commenter below. See new analysis following comment by ninja below.

rgr769

The last combat units of the 101st Airborne Division were completely withdrawn from Vietnam by February 1972.

Poetrooper

Young Poe’s unit, 2d Battalion, 327th Airborne Infantry among them, the longest serving infantry battalion of the war, 1965-1972.

Harry

One look at their trainwreck uniforms tells me all I need to know – no records required.

sgt. vaarkman 27-48thTFW

These 2 scam artist never served a day in their miserable lives, I don’t think I could wear my dress blue uniform at 66 years old, it might be a little bit tight around the middle and these 2 illegal aliens are dressed in too newly issued uniforms not 40+ year old uniforms with their out of order medals of America catalog bling , and why are they wearing medals instead of a ribbon rack ?. I enlisted right out of high school(73) and I did not go to Vietnam….

Don’t fuck around, make these 2 turds come up with 2 DD 214’s as proof of service and if they’re forgeries or they can’t come up with them, SINCE THEY’RE ILLEGALLY HERE, DEPORT THEM IMMEDIATELY ON THE 1ST PLANE OR GARBAGE SCOW FOR VENEZUALA AND MAKE THEM PAY US TAXPAYERS FOR THE TRIP BACK TO THERE HOMELAND PLUS A HEFTY FINE, NO FREEBIES FOR THEIR STOLEN VALOR send a message no scumbags allowed , It sucks to be a fake and not know the history or traditions and protocol for your scam story, because obviously they were never there and never served

rgr1480

Yeah! I enlisted (USAF that time) in 1973 and only got the NDSM! Later got assigned to Germany. Nobody was going to RVN.

M48DAT

Same time period. A guy I was in the Army with in the 80’s was rocking a VN service ribbon. (the green one) I asked him how he did that. Turns out we both graduated HS in 73 and he joined the Navy and was off shore in the 73-75 time period authorizing him to be awarded the VN gift pack.

CRS

The unit decorations Valente has on in the My San Antonio picture are reversed.

A Proud Infidel®™

There were Foreigners serving in my Brigade that I deployed to Afghanistan with, they took their Oaths of Citizenship while deployed and came home as War Veterans and American Citizens, thus another doubt I have about their weak tales of woe.

SFC D

Yup. Had a few of those too. Mostly Mexican, a couple of Panamanians, and one from Micronesia. And one Puerto Rican who applied for citizenship who didn’t understand he was already a citizen. NOTE: This is not a dig at Puerto Ricans, or an attempt to insult anyone’s intelligence. He was genuinely unaware.

SFC D

His reasoning was that Puerto Rico wasn’t a state, so he wasn’t a US citizen. OK, I kind of understand his logic, as mistaken as it was. He was a happy young man when his citizenship was explained to him/

Poetrooper

In my battalion in Vietnam, we had a Samoan buck sergeant who claimed to be a son of the King of Samoa, making him an official prince.

Ol’ Poe can’t remember his name after a half century, but still remembers he was only medium height and slim but incredibly strong. He was a natural athlete, tough as nails and afraid of nothing.

He was a guy who had absolutely everything going for him: movie star handsome, perfect teeth and a charming smile that matched his personality.

Best of all as far as his buddies were concerned, he was always loaded with cash and always picked up group bar tabs. If you went bar-crawling with him, he paid for everything, and for anyone needing a few bucks for whatever, he was always good for it, and it wasn’t a payday loan but a gift.

Wish I could remember his name ’cause I’d be interested to know what ever happened to a guy like that who had literally everything going for him.

And no, before one of you smart-asses suggests it because of my lavish praise, young Poe wasn’t queer for the guy…😜

Retired Grunt

Me thinkith though protest too much even prior to the much deserved but socially unacceptable ribbing to come. Hmmmm….🤔

KoB

We didn’t ask, so why should you tell? 😛

Jay

Ol’ Poe wasn’t gay…but $20 is $20. (grin)

Daisy Cutter

You liked him in a non-gay type-of-way.

I understand.

26Limabeans

Not that there’s anything wrong with that…

MarineDad61

26Limabeans,
Good catch.
Just to be sure everyone knows the hand motions…
lol

Poetrooper

Hey how many of you dickweeds turned down the opportunity to be the Queen of Samoa? 😜😜😜

Roh-Dog

I smell the stink of lying and shame.

$10 says the rap sheets are longer.

MarineDad61

Roh-Dog,
2 separate FOIA records requests can’t be both all squared away,
fully matching up with the dynamic duo of gooned up uniforms, can they?

Considering NBC network coverage of this story now,
it could rate higher (faster) FOIA records request processing.

Would be interesting to see the whole TRUTH.
Like Foley/Jowers, but now Foley/Foley.

KTXS TV news story >> [The Jowers and Foley Show
| February 11, 2020]
https://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=95513

MarineDad61

I got it.
I got it.
1 of them was wounded, and then rescued from the battlefield,
by Army LTC copter rapeller nurse D.C. Honor Flight recipient
MAGGIE DeSANTI.

MarineDad61

Checking the Book of the Fake
for posts about this “Shameful for America” story.
So far… Found 1, with 270 comments.
https://www.facebook.com/NBCNews/posts/6191140167572628

rgr769

I scanned the comments on FakeBook. Nary a one questioned whether their claimed service was legit or the soup-sandwich uni displays. But then I saw at the bottom that the comments were “filtered for the most relevant.” FakeBook truly is just another progda fraud.

MarineDad61

rgr769,
FakeBook has 3 comments layouts on news and public pages,
with the default being “Most Relevant”.
The other 2 choices are [All Comments] and [Newest],
but you need to find them, and click them, to get there.
Try Newest, you may see something.
🙂

MarineDad61

Interesting…
The DOCUMENTARY Book of the Fake
says their name is not Valenzuela, but VALADEZ.
And the film is
“by John J. Valadez & Carleen L. Hsu
A Burning Box Studio Production”

The plot thickens…..
https://www.facebook.com/American-Exile-A-Documentary-Film-100262535520435

MarineDad61

Apparently, film genius John J. Valadez
can’t get his Mexican Tex Mex names straight.

MarineDad61

They have their own Book of the Fake.
https://www.facebook.com/brothers.valenzuela

MarineDad61

But this page is actually ANOTHER Valenzuela… Jesus Manuel Valenzuela.
The plot thickens.

MarineDad61

Mason,
Could it be?
THREE?
A 2nd generation shitbird??
Pumping up the phony elders, phony pop pop and phony uncle??

Not saying all 3, or even any 1, are phonies.
But it’s lookin’ grim on the whole clatch.

I sure hope VG can file for the FOIA on ALL 3.
Even if it takes half a year,
this whole story, with the news coverage, the documentary film, the webpage, the FakeBook,
it’s a great missile strike direct hit on all of it,
when the FOIA results (eventually) come in.

(If VG needs volunteer help collecting the interwebby linkies and the screenshots, I’ll volunteer!)

Claw

Photo posted on that Book of the Face where Army brother received a Honorable Discharge DD256 Certificate (SSN not redacted) on 25 Nov 71.

Claw

The rank listed on the DD256 is SP5.

rgr769

What is a DD256?

rgr769

Never mind, I googfu’d it. It is the Honorable Discharge Certificate. The googlfu brings up a a fillable form blank certificate as the first hit. So, I would never rely on one of those as proof of service.

MarineDad61

[DD Form 256 “Honorable Discharge Certificate”

What Is DD Form 256?

DD Form 256, Honorable Discharge Certificate,
is a certificate issued by the Department of Defense (DoD) and other branches of military service to service members with satisfactory military records.

Honorable discharge applies to all soldiers whose service has been honest and faithful, with the positive aspects of service and conduct outweighing the negative ones.

The form in and of itself is a memorable certificate with all discharge information recorded on DD Form 214, Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty, issued to service members when they separated from active duty service.]

https://www.templateroller.com/template/1863162/dd-form-256-honorable-discharge-certificate.html

Sapper3307

“My records burned in the AREA-51(c) fire of 1983”.
Just ask Bob Lazer

David

So in all these articles and interviews, no one thought to ask for a DD214? Proof?

MarineDad61

David,
It happened with Maggie DeSanti,
and her famous 2019 airport TSA pushups.

Worse, Maggie was already outed and on the internet
as a Phony Silver Star that never served, 5 years before.
All it took was a simple Google search,
and no one did it.
Not Honor Flights. Not network news.

So, anything is possible now, with these
dos hermanos.

[LTC Margaret DeSanti; phony Army nurse
Jonn Lilyea | December 24, 2014]
https://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=57300

rgr769

These so-called “journalists” never ask for a DD-214 or other documents from people claiming combat service because they don’t want to ruin the narrative. Did any of these scribblers ever ask any of these phonies for a DD-214? Remember ol’ Jessie MacBeth? No one asked him for a single document to prove his bullshit story. The first pic I saw of him gave it away; he had his beret pulled down over the wrong side of his head and had his camo fatigue sleeves rolled up like the Marines do them.

MarineDad61

rgr769,
Jesse MacBeth (today) not only has his own Wikipedia page,
but he actually wrote a Kindle book in 2019.
Reviews here (mostly by fools),
and only 1 of the 7 calls him out for Stolen Valor.
Kudos to Skiffy.
https://www.amazon.com/One-That-Love-Forgot-MacBeth-ebook/product-reviews/B07TNHVTNN/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_show_all_btm?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews

SFC D

The saga of Jesse MacBeth was what borught me to Milblogs, via Blackfive, GreyEagle, and Castle Aaaargh. I should thank him for helping to make me a proud TAH dickweed.

SFC D

Borught? Who’s the slimy little twinkle toed communist cocksucker that put decaf in pot?

SFC D

Grrrrrr

Green Thumb

By chance, do either of these “Veterans” work for All-Points Logistics in Merritt Island, FL?

Curious, as The False Commander “Phony” Phil Monkress (CEO of All-Points Logistics)and his new batch of advisory board Phildo Supporters could face a double-edged sword.

Hack Stone

In any interviews they participated in, was there any mention of units they were assigned to? How about the names of fellow service members they worked with? Provide a little background and their story could be easily verified. But that would be asking too much.

26Limabeans

All their fellow service members were either KIA or have since died
from various war related disease. Some are POW being secretly held in Laos.
That would be my guess.

SFC D

That can’t be right. Colonel James Braddock got all the POW’s out.

ninja

To All:

Check out this photo of the two Brothers in Military uniforms.

The Army Brother is wearing the old Army Greens with the Khaki shirt and black necktie that was the norm in the 1960s. His awards on his uniform are the Bronze Star (NO Valor), the Army Commendation Medal, the National Defense Service Medal, the Vietnam Service Medal and the Vietnam Campaign Medal.

No CIB or Purple Heart. It looks as if he is also wearing Ordnance Corps brass:

https://hispanicnewsnetwork.wordpress.com/valente-valenzuela-andjesus-manuel-valenzuela1/

The Marine brother looks as if he is wearing the National Defense Service Medal and the Vietnam Service Medal.

Have read several articles where their dates of service range from 1968-1971 and 1971-1977.

What do you all think of the analysis of the picture in the link?

KoB

Welcome home ninja…you were missed. Good job and BZ to all that made sure the vote went the way it needed to in VA.

I had about as much luck finding the analysis in the article as Navy will have finding the end zone a few weeks from now. My problem may come from lack of inherwebz skilz…or a bad linkee…or…reasons. Navy’s problem can be blamed on a lack of two hands, a map, and a flashlight.

Oh, & BTW…GABN/RTR/HBTD!

ninja

KoB:

😆😅🤣😂!!!!

Reference the Navy:

Our very own AW1Ed is gonna come get you…

gabn 😎😉

hbtd/rtr: Number 1 and Number 2…

The VA Election results: It was worth all the time and effort being trained and functiining as an Election Official and Poll Watcher…Still some glitches out there to fix since there will be a recount in some Districts.

Did we tell you that Winsome Sears and Brandon rocks? 😎😉

BTW: Did you see this article?

Unbelievable…

“Biden Urges FTC to Investigate Gasoline Price Gouging at the Pump”

https://www.thestreet.com/investing/biden-targets-oil-companies-for-price-gouging

“Oil and gas companies are on notice after President Joe Biden asked the Federal Trade Commission to investigate whether the industry is illegally and artificially keeping gasoline prices high.”

“The White House sent a letter to FTC Chair Lina Khan Wednesday alleging that there is “mounting evidence of anti-consumer behavior” from the industry as the price of gasoline is rising despite the price of unrefined gas going down.”

“This unexplained large gap between the price of unfinished gasoline and the average price at the pump is well above the pre-pandemic average,” Biden’s letter said. “Meanwhile, the largest oil and gas companies in America are generating significant profits off higher energy prices.”

“The letter specifically called out the “two largest oil and gas companies” in the country, Exxon and Chevron, as being on track to nearly double their net income.”

“That is compared to pre-pandemic levels at the same time they have announced stock buybacks and dividend hikes.”

26Limabeans

Just a little sidenote…Propane is tied to the price of gasoline.
It is because Propane is a byproduct of refining gasoline.
Used to burn the stuff off as waste but today people heat with it.

ninja

With apologies to Mason for hijacking this thread, we thought this was interesting as well:

“Is’Illegal Conduct’ The Reason For Rising Gas Prices? Biden Urges Regulators To Find Out”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/11/17/biden-asks-regulators-examine-conduct-oil-and-gas-companies/8649244002/

“But the industry’s lobbying association, the American Petroleum Institute, blasted Biden’s move.”

“Frank Macchiarola, the group’s senior vice president of policy, economics and regulatory affairs, called Biden’s push for a probe “a distraction” from the ongoing market shift and “ill-advised government decisions” he claimed are exacerbating the situation.”

“Macchiarola said the higher gas prices are caused by increasing demand for gasoline outpacing supply as the economy rebounds from the pandemic. “Further impacting the imbalance,” he added, are moves from the Biden administration to restrict access to fossil fuels.”

“Rather than launching investigations on markets that are regulated and closely monitored on a daily basis or pleading with OPEC to increase supply,” he said, “we should be encouraging the safe and responsible development of American-made oil and natural gas.”

TopGoz

Compared to pre-pandemic levels… in other (truer) words, “Compared to when Donald Trump was President, before I came in and screwed with oil and gas production.”

KoB

Tell our Areonautically Designated Squidly Swabbie to bring it…I ain’t skeered! GABN!!!!!! Yesum, saw that while pillaging thru the news feeds. Typical sniffy creepy joey, gonna blame everybody but his own self. Since my traveling has been at a very minimum of late, vehicle fuel is not too bad of a concern, no longer doing that 70 mile a day round trip. Prolly gonna get my feelings hurt next week when Baby Sister drives me down to Tampa. She wants to drive her Mom-Mobile (20mpg) instead of my Skateboard Nismo (30mpg) and that’s gonna be pert near 900 miles round trip. What’s biting me on the azz is the natty gas for the furnace. Not only has the price per therm/btu gone sky damn high, the gas company increased the “pass thru fee”. Another one of the benefits of diversifying the gas suppliers. Seriously debating putting a 500 gallon propane tank here at Firebase Magnolia and just keeping it filled. Nearly $60 a month (that will go to $90 soon) just to pay the billing company for the natty gas. Saw another news blurb where a major pipeline feeding thru St. Louis is going to be shut down. They keep poking the bear and that bear is gonna bite hell out of them. Guess we’ll see y’all at the SEC Championship Game. I’ll be the one sitting on the couch, biting my nails, saying a prayer that my Dawgs don’t choke when the Tide starts rolling. It’s happened before. If… Read more »

Claw

_________ was in the US Army. He served as a Specialist and was a proud member of the 101st Airborne Division from 1968 to 1969. He was on the front lines and in charge of petroleum storage and transport. ________ witnessed some of the most horrifying aspects of the war.

Hondo

OK, new plausibility analysis due to error in original birth year calculations pointed out by CRS above.

As CRS notes, in Sep 2013 My San Antonio gave these guys’ ages as 61 and 65. Since that was just over 8 years ago, that means they were likely born in 1948 and 1952. That in turn means they likely became 18 in 1966 and 1970, respectively.

Given that info, the dates ninja found above regarding military service for each are plausible, as are the other photos she found – assuming, of course, that the 1968-1971 date range for military service is for the older brother. That in turn means both could plausibly have served in-country during the Vietnam War.

I’d still want to see a FOIA, but given their (corrected) apparent years of birth their ages during the Vietnam War do not automatically rule out their claimed Vietnam service.

rgr769

First, Army bro’s ribbon rack ribbons are in the wrong order of precedence. The VCM belongs on the bottom row. Second, the black necktie appears to be civilian; the issue black tie was narrower and made of black mohair. Third, I would like to know how he acquired another markmanship badge and two CIB after he left the Army.

Regarding Marine bro, I don’t think he ever graduated boot camp; since he has an epaulet parked above the lapel of his blouse (jacket for you non-military readers like LC). Even our beloved Gunga Dan wouldna had his pic taken like that. Plus, I want to know how he has a VSM but no Vietnam Campaign Medal.

26Limabeans

“how he has a VSM but no Vietnam Campaign Medal”

The VSM is retroactive to 1 JUL 58.
The Campaign medal goes back to 1 MAR 61.
Obviously he served in between those dates………

Or maybe he has French service.

Claw

“has a VSM but no Vietnam Campaign Medal”

Easy-Peasy, he didn’t spend the required six months in country.

There are lots and lots of Navy/Air Force types like that, who only got the VSM but no VCM just by simply flying over or by sailing into the off shore waters of RVN./s

rgr769

Thanks. But the fact he has no combat action ribbon belies his claim that he is a Viet of the Nam combat ribbon. Absent documentary proof, I will never believe either of these grievance mongers were combat veterans. If I could question Army bro, I could determine in about ten minutes if he is a POSer. If he is the real deal, I am entitled to a star on my CIB and a mustard stain on my jump wings, cuz I jumped into the battle of Macho Grande.

rgr769

“combat veteran….” (The little gray cells are slower than the fingers.)

5JC

Meh, the Marine CAR was established in 1969. If he served before then and never requested one retroactively it could be possible.

Doesn’t really matter though. They look like two of the world’s biggest poser’s and phonies. There is nothing right about their uniforms and they have no paperwork.

MarineDad61

ninja,
Jury’s out, on the old men photos,
and the switcho changeo uniformo, and it’s not lookin’ good.

Hoping a photo of either brother between the years 1971 and 2001 turns up.
Likely turning up turnips. Or guano.

Forest Bondurant

“Once, to save his own life, he was forced to decapitate a violent terror suspect.”

That’s fuggin’ hysterical!

Green Thumb

I imagine these two have reached out to Lori Benton on Phildo’s recommendation.

Hack Stone

Do you know of any real estate lawers (sic) in the Bethesda area who would be willing to represent them?

Sapper3307

No Army Service Ribbon?

Claw

Nope. Army brother wasn’t on active duty in August 1981 when the Gay Pride Ribbon was authorized for wear by all personnel./smile

The Stranger

But The Brotherhood weeps…

Mustang Major

Mason- Forget the NPRC request. PBS and NBC tainted the waters with indelible ink.

I suspect (we all suspect, actually) the NPRC records will come back with responses ranging from “who” to something well short of their claims. PBS and NBC will not correct or retract their reports based upon information from the NPRC arriving a year from now.

However, if US citizenship has value, the two brothers may violate stolen valor laws.

I bet a Republican representative in congress might be interested in reviewing the media reports against the facts and taking action in the form of strengthened laws.

26Limabeans

“if US citizenship has value”

The going rate is about $450,000 plus benefits.

KoB

‘beans, I don’t think that 450K is going to go to US Citizens.