Another salute faux pas for the Prez
A number of you sent links to an article about President Obama disregarding a saluting Marine aside his whirly-ride today;
I know a number of you will get pissed, but I just can’t. Sure, he should have been conscious enough to return the salute when it was offered, but he did make up for his carelessness with the young Marine. I’ve absentmindedly returned salutes when people mistook me for an officer, there have been a few times that I walked by an officer without saluting because I was thinking about something else. This president and his administration have given me enough reasons to get upset at him, this is minor in comparison.
So call me names, but I think there are too many things to get legitimately exercised over and we don’t have to pick over every little thing Obama does or doesn’t do. And, I think he made it right when he came out of the chopper and chatted with the Marine. The Marine will probably remember that brief chat and handshake longer than he would have remembered a returned salute.
But that’s me, and because I don’t ban people for disagreeing with me, do your worst.
Category: Barack Obama/Joe Biden
I am with you Jonn. Really not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.
Jonn, I had the exact same reaction as you. There’s so much to despise Dear Leader for so we don’t have to make stuff up.
Ditto. It’s small crackers.
Watch him return the salute getting into the aircraft.
Whomever he returned the salute to, gently suggested he “forgot” someone.
Concur with all posts so far. I’m OK with what he did: at least he came back out of the chopper to try to make it right.
And anyway, I’m pretty ambivalent about civilians saluting uniformed members of the services anyway… once I took the uniform off, I’m thinking I lost the privilege of saluting at that point.
IMO, I think an acknowledgement of the salute, by either a nod or a wave, or a quick comment, is good enough and would be “polite” in most company. I don’t think civilians, POTUS or not, should be rendering the hand salute if they’re not in uniform.
Just my .02 worth.
A minute to chat with the young Marine will indeed leave an impression for a lifetime, those moments matter. Agreed, regarding many other things more pressing and serious at this time.
The President is an affable guy, but he’s not a great president. This thing doesn’t change that in either direction.
Deep, log sigh,
Have to agree on this one, but does not excuse the others.
SteveS: I agree with you in general. However, the POTUS is a special case. By virtue of the fact that the Constitution makes the POTUS Commander in Chief of US forces, he IS in the military chain-of-command. I thus have no issue with the POTUS returning a salute.
I also don’t have an issue with this minor slip-up. Everyone is human and goofs at times. Here the POTUS seems to have gone back and made things right. For me, mistake fixed/case closed.
Got to agree with you on this one.
I agree. He fixed his mistake.
My wife is always on me for critiquing movies that have scenes dealing with the military. “It’s Hollywood.” she always says. “Nothing from there is REAL!.”
Good advice … but won’t stop me.
Regardless of whether he remembered or a staff member reminded him, he did go back to make it right.
Missing this salute and coming back…not a big deal…
Making Marines hold his umbrella…dickhead…
Agree here as well. While I see the case for having the CinC returning a salute offered, it still makes me a bit uncomfortable. But that is a personal problem. It’s a nice gesture.
Veterans saluting? I do it and feel great about saluting during the National Anthem and saluting the flag as the Honor Guard goes by in a parade. I even saluted a group of Gold Star Mothers in a recent parade. (That one was a bit over the top, but it was about all I could do to honor them.)
I think anyone who’s been in the service has at some point in their illustrious career forgotten or missed an opportunity to render a salute. Shit happens. Drive on. Only if it becomes a pattern should their be reason to care.
Wait until cackles moves into 1600 Penn…military staffers shall not make eye contact or speak unless spoken to. Yeah, and they also better have an umbrella ready to go at all times. BTW didn’t WJC give alot of half salutes and had to be coached?
Devtun, you mean Secretary Cankles?
Since I’m not in nor ever been in the Military, what are the rules and/or “social norms” for saluting? If I may ask.
Agreed. I attended my daughter’s Air Force Basic graduation and after the ceremony we went to her barracks (I think they called them Dorms) to see where she lived. As we walked along the sidewalk I spotted a full bird approaching with what was probably his own daughter. I had to stop myself from throwing up an automatic salute in a Pavlovian response but my daughter, Bless her, missed him completely. I said “Hey, don’t you guys have to salute officers? Because that was a full bull who just walked by us.” My daughter was mortified but the Colonel, to his credit, never even slowed down. Just gave me a small smile (probably recognizing my incipient horror) and walked on.
It happens. As you said, he does enough to our service personnel to make me see red. This is a non issue for me. The VA scandal on the other hand…..
when we dismiss he breaches of military protocol as “small crackers” and say they “dont matter in the larger scheme”, it lowers the standard. its the public education effect, people keep failing to meet the standards and we do not hold them accountable. instead of people rising to meet what is expected, the expectations continue to drop. he is the commander in chief of the US armed forces, he should act like it! is this a big issue? no, but it is the starting point. it is the constant decline of the standards that our leaders should be held to, to the point that a clear breach of military protocol by the top man in the military chain of command is considered “no big deal”. the standard must be held!
I’m pretty sure no president prior to Reagan ever returned the salutes, and I’m not sure what inspired Reagan to change that tradition. I really don’t see how it’s a big deal one way or the other.
Agree with #13.
I agree Jonn. He went back and made it right, without prompting, so no harm done.
Not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.
Also;
1. since it was pointed out that the POTUS is the Commander in Chief, is there a regulation somewhere that states an officer (either the POTUS or a lesser ranking officer) MUST return a salute to a junior/subordinate? And;
2. different services do have different regulations concerning saluting and returning salutes while one or both are in civilian clothing. Naval officers (as I found out 20-some years ago while standing a gate at Kelly Barracks, FRG) do not salute out of uniform, even when someone in uniform just checked their ID and rendered a salute. And, finally;
3. This POTUS was never in the military. I’m pretty sure he’s never been through all the little Drill and Ceremony and similar classes in Basic Training that instill the kind of automatic response that most of us are used to.
id like to claim this as another reason that the POTUS should always have military expirience if he is going to claim the mantle of Comander in Chief. slick willy and this moron should be good enough reason to show cause
That’s just a fartsack/maggot/leatherneck/devil dog/jarhead.
The funny part was when he was still holding the salute when passed as if he didn’t know what to do.
who cares. There are more important reasons to despise the current occupant of the White House than this OR the umbrella “incident” (by the way…Reagan, Bush I and Bush II all had umbrellas held over them by military members as I recall).
I too believe it was Reagan who first returned salutes. Not even Eisenhower (former 5 Star flag officer) didn’t even return salutes apparently. I wonder if Washington did…
Adlai Stevenson II once said, “You can tell the size of a man by the size of the thing that makes him mad.” I’d prefer to get angry at the present occupant over more important things…
Not an issue, but it does look as if the co-pilot is scrambling to loosen his harness and turn around to advise Obama of the faux pas.
Well, since he saluted when he entered the bird, I’m thinking that someone (his teleprompter?) was saying “Salute! Salute!” while he was coming up the steps and he just saluted because someone told him to salute.
I can’t believe I’ll be the first to say this but I would prefer that the POS not ever salute at all. After all, no one is saluting HIM but his status. Old Glory doesn’t return a salute either. Screw him. (Hey, that’s the President you’re talking about, mister! Yeah, I know. And this is the USA and he’s a POS. Thank you.)
30
2/17 Air Cav Says:
Dead on target Sir! I have to fully agree… Personally I wouldn’t want the POS to acknowledge me at all..
Agreed with the majority here…not a huge issue, especially compared to last week.
Besides, if not having a salute returned by this POTUS is the worst this Marine gets fucked over by this administration, he should count his blessings.
Brent Glines: the guy in the first Facebook post.
Senior Officers DO salute junior Officers on occasion:
Its called REMINDING them.
Have seen, experienced it and know better.
Ladies and germs of the Annual Imposter Tourney, please note this event when considering my nomination of Skippy, ummmm, okay, the Chump in Chief, for the first place award.
Gravel, I’ll bet money that any regulation requiring a return salute applies only those subject to UCMJ, i.e. someone currently serving. Since the POTUS (by definition) is a civilian, the regulations don’t apply to him.
Smitty, with that requirement we wouldn’t get either Adams, Taft, Coolidge, FDR, or Reagan. Not knocking Ronny (medical condition), but I don’t count making movies as “military service.”
Counter-proposal: military service makes it easier to get elected, but usually has little predictive value for leadership. Lincoln ended up a good war leader, while Grant turned out to be a terrible president. FDR did very well during WW2, while JFK nearly started a nuclear war, and LBJ got us sucked into Vietnam. Finally, Reagan won the Cold War, even if he did start this argument. 🙂
sorry,,,no slack for the wicked.
@32 You couldn’t be more right Sparky! BOHICA is going to be a battle cry for the next generation of Vets I’m afraid.
I do agree, Obummer did come back and try to make it right.
Kind of makes me smile inside because it makes me think that El Dingus is starting to feel the heat and the weight of a nation that demands action upon him.
His legacy will only be about one thing for most.
Still he’ll be remembered as the worst president since….
Wow he fucked up came back and owned up to it. I didn’t know he could do that.
Just Plain Jason:
Now if only he could own up to Bengahzi, the IRS, a plethora of unconstitutional gun control, healthcare reform, drone strikes, foreign aid, immigration reform, welfare, misclassification of terrorist acts, etc……..then we would be getting somewhere.
I can NOT believe that you people are going to make me take up for our POS CIC, but here goes:
Uncovered Marines do not salute. And while there is no possible way anyone would ever mistake Obama for a Marine, he is their commander in chief, so it would be perfectly reasonable for him, in his interactions with Marines, to abide by their rules.
Besides, this is the first time I’ve ever seen him treat a serviceman like a human being, what with coming out of the chopper and making things right. What’s going on with that?
And ditto on what #39 said.
@39
ValJar is the puppetmaster, decider, and true power on the throne…
This cartoon is on target…an empty shell
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/cartoons/cartoons_of_the_week/2013/21/-6-mike_lester-smartest_president.html
#21 – I guess you have to be old enough to remember the outcry…
Prior to Reagan, Presidents did not return the Marine salutes – no more than a visiting dignitary would return salutes of a foreign guard – Presidents were civilians and furthermore were not in uniform. Reagan, however, thought that our troops deserved to have the salutes returned, so he did exactly that.
Y’all should have *seen* and *heard* the furor! “He’s a *civilian*! He *can’t* (*shouldn’t*) *do* that!
By the way – it was the *military* making the outcry. But Reagan was President and did as he pleased. After 8 years of the President returning salutes, it became customary.
That our current CinC doesn’t feel the same necessity should not surprise us… but he was not *wrong* in not saluting, merely not following a tradition that has exited for 14% of the country’s history.
Ditto on the comments Jonn. While our beloved Fearless Leader does indeed have other things to occupy his mind, he at least tried to make amends. As others have pointed out POTUS only started saluting the Marine guard with Reagan. While I think Obama doesn’t particularly care for the military I also don’t believe he’s an ungrateful bore. He tried to do right and we should probably cut him some slack on this one. Nice recovery Barry.
My co forgot al the time. Piss poor leader to.
@35, we have had 3 modern presidents with no military service. FDR, Clinton, and Obama. by my book, 3 of the worst to date. FDR started this whole nanny state thing, Clinton embarrassed the country because he couldnt keep his pants on in the oval office and decided to lie about it and make the issue into a big deal, and well, what hasnt obama done.
Prior to FDR, we had a series of presidents with out military expirience, and they all sucked! got us the great depression out of the deal though.
Reagen didnt serve in the military?
http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/reference/military.html
ya sure about that?
@ #42: My memory is the same. It seems rather odd to observe how quickly something can become “tradition” that was never done prior to our being grown adults!
I disagree with the majority of posts here. I think it is further proof of the disdain and contempt Obama shows for members of the military that he considers them the peons also along with the rest of us “gun clingers”. Coupled with having a Marine hold an umbrella makes me dislike him even more. Arrogant, condescending, cold and disdainful of others and so full of himself he doesn’t even see others as real people is what he is among other things.
Don’t care whether he went back to shake his hand. It shows his complete disinterest and lack of respect for the closet military to him, every day. What does it say about his respect for the military at large?
BTW: I don’t think he tried to make amends for this slight out of remorse. In the minutes that passed before he came back out someone in the plane had the balls to stand up and tell him how bad it looks with everyone watching and that is why the poser in chief came back out. Not out of respect for the Marine.
“Live with integrity and speak with honesty and take responsibility and demand accountability.”
Wanna guess who said that? I’ll give you a hint. His middle name is Hussein. That’s right, Barrack Hussein Obama spoke that line to the USNA 2013 graduating class in Annapolis yesterday. Is that too funny or what?
Obamaman also pointed out what he must regard as the most valuable characteristic of the class: “You’re the most diverse class to graduate in Naval Academy history. And among the many proud young women graduating today, 13 will serve on submarines.” That’s really something. Decades from now, I’m sure that the graduates will still be saying, “Sure, other classes had their accomplishments but they couln’t touch us. We were the most diverse!’