GI Bill like Arrangement for all Americans?
Making the right choices in life, to include changing self-sabotaging habits, to improve one’s chances of going to college and having minimal debt is more rewarding. One disadvantage of the “free for all” proposal is it removes the penalty for making bad choices in the past… And transfers it to others. (r/The_Donald)
There are Democrats that are calling for student debt forgiveness, and for making university education free… At least among the public universities. Representative Ilhan Omar added her two cents to this argument. She supported the idea that the GI Bill concept could be applied to all Americans, not just to those who served.
She agreed with a story that Will Fischer, a Marine Veteran, wrote. Fischer wrote that the benefits of paying for veteran’s education outweighed the cost and suggested that all Americans should be covered by a similar arrangement.
Fox News quotes Omar’s tweet:
“Imagine what it would do for our country and those who live here if we were to take the ethos behind the original G.I. Bill and apply it to everybody–canceling all student debt and making public colleges, universities, and vocational schools tuition-free,”
Ilhan Omar, along with Bernie Sanders and Pramila Jayapal, has tried to make this reality:
Along with Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., and Rep. Pramila Jayapal, D-Wash., Omar introduced a bill that would “eliminate tuition and fees at all public four-year colleges and universities,” in addition to trade schools, community colleges and apprenticeship programs.
This leaves many questions. One question involves the cost to make this a reality, and who would bear the burden of cost. Fox News has details here.
Category: "Teh Stoopid", Politics
The “Who would bear the burden of cost?” question is easy.
All of us who pay taxes.
Here is the article written by Marine OIF Veteran Will Fischer:
“A Veteran Explains Why We Need A New Version of the G.I. Bill — For Everyone”:
https://www.alternet.org/2020/02/a-veteran-explains-why-we-need-a-new-version-of-the-g-i-bill-for-everyone/
You Be The Judge.
This is why the Bernie-asking-for-support meme is so hilarious. Even if he becomes President, his entire tenure will be that meme over and over and over again.
The benefits of hard work are so great that they must be shared will all those who did not work.
The Left, in a nutshell.
They -will not- allow themselves to see why doing so is -always- a disaster.
The rewards of work must be divorced from work.
Slavery in a nutshell.
They won’t scrutinize -that- reality, either.
From each according to their ability, to each according to their race, class and/or gender.
Nope.
I want to know WTF happened to the “if you don’t work, you don’t eat” mentality that used to be prevalent in the U.S.
Progressives.
RACISM!!!!!!!!!!!! You racist!
Never ask who will pay for it.
If you have to ask, the sucker is you. (Hey, why did my taxes double?!)
Many of the folks going for the “free offers” candidates don’t see the ripple effect that would happen if one of these pipe dreams come true. Many think, “just the rich”, “the government”, or some other “money well”. Sack the rich to make this a reality, and you sack their incentive to generate wealth. Less taxes collected. Less taxes collected, the less “free things” the government could offer… Unless they could squeeze that money from elsewhere. The end result is a majority of the population in poverty conditions, with high crimes, deteriorating employment/security situations, society on its way to breaking down, etc.
If many of their listeners actually asked, and did the research, not many would go for the free stuff… They’d know that it wouldn’t be sustainable. But, they can’t have people asking those questions. Just “indoctrinate them”… Orange man bad… Rich bad… Conservatives bad…
Keep them misinformed and you’ll be the one eyed man in the land of the blind. Knowledge is, indeed, power.
Why socialism don’t work.
I graduated from a major state university and a major private university long ago. Instead of making a college education free for everybody let’s go back to the days when only about the top 15% smartest were even admitted to a college or university.
The democratization of higher education funding with the federal government as the sole lender is what bankrupts those who never should have been admitted to colleges. Often these mediocre students never earn a degree and are yoked to a debt burden for decades while they slave as baristas for Starbucks. If the federal government got out of the student loan monopoly then tuition rates will drop.
Here in New England several small, private colleges have recently closed or merged with other institutions because they priced their tuition so high for marginal liberal arts degrees their enrollment totals were halved.
Give me master plumbers and electricians. Mechanics and roofers. I don’t need another Queer Studies or Post-Modern Feminist Studies major telling me Trump is a bad man.
Ooooo frikin rah…. If everybody gets to go to college they’re just going to lower the standards like they do in public education now so everybody gets the pass everybody gets a Blue Ribbon everybody finishes 1st and nobody gets Left Behind further dumbing us down until nobody is smart enough to figure out how to screwin a lightbulb. Lol
Heard you I did, CCR. Same. Trade school and business school on my GI Bill. School all day and working half the night running the Colonel’s Chicken House. Then working all day and trying to finish school at night. No way the GI Bill was gonna cover it all. And my technical training paid off a whole lot better than the business management did.
You are ever so correct on the skilled trades too. At Ma Bell’s initial interview you had to identify and show how to use basic hand tools. I thought it was a joke until I realized there were people that didn’t know which end of a hammer or a screwdriver to use. Sad song, I ain’t lying. Their is a dire need in this country for any and all sorts of skills that most of us either learned growing up or were at least exposed to in “shop class.”
There are already all types of “programs” now for education assistance. For most you have to at least maintain a decent grade level. The “participation trophy” has taken the place of applying yourself to make something of yourself.
Mmmmm…… chicken….
“At Ma Bell’s initial interview you had to identify and show how to use basic hand tools. I thought it was a joke until I realized there were people that didn’t know which end of a hammer or a screwdriver to use. Sad song, I ain’t lying.”
One of the points of performance at our FD skills test for applicants is to screw a nozzle onto a section of 2.5″ hose (2 50′ sections connected) and drag it 50 yards.
Several years ago there was an applicant that wasted all of his allotted time (for all events) and never did get the nozzle connected because he was turning it backwards. Nobody ever taught him “left loosey, righty tighty”.
Here in New England several small, private colleges have recently closed
One of which was run by Bernie’s wife, that was unaccredited and charged >$50k year, which the FBI, IIRC, is still investigating for fraud.
You mean the one where it’s alleged that one of the Sanders Daughters was paid a six figure salary? Talk about “White Privilege”…
RACISM!!!!!!
“And those who live here”
Not so coded way of saying “regardless of citizenship”.
Free Sh*t for illegals… don’t forget to vote Democrat for more!
Yep.
Ummm…. second and third order effects…. I had this conversation the other night with the Bernie supporter who texted me out of the blue. All of these free benefits that they want to give away that I served so long to earn will also serve to gut the United States military. When you do not have to sacrifice anything to get the benefits that we all served for there is no reason to serve there is no reason to join other than a sense of duty and that only covers about 1/4 of us to be honest. When you give everybody come into this country legally or illegally or whatever the same benefits that you give your veterans well let’s just say you’re not gonna have any more veterans why would I risk my life?
” I saved a life, you saved the world.”
I’m pretty sure that is intentional on their part.
I have a different take–follow me here.
*SARC ON*
Let’s do all these things. In fact, the faster the better.
The sooner we do it, the sooner the entire sham collapses and we can be done with these idiots.
Strong men create good times
Good times create weak men
Weak men create hard times
Hard times create strong men
So let’s stop opposing the Larsification of America and get on board with helping them fail!
*SARC OFF*
The intended mass murder of something like a hundred million more people suggests that my answer is
“No”
Okay, here I go…
Well, we actually tried this, many, many, many ‘efing times, on several levels. Affirmative Action, college admission Set-Asides, reshaping the damn bell curve so everyone graduated but you had to know in your own mind that your 3.4 class grade was NOT the same as the rest of the 3.4 grades. Only on paper though.
The difference was, I was able to progress and use what I learned for a job. They progressed and got a job as a college-degreed…not college-educated, E-4. (No disrespect meant to my fellow E-4 brothers of all eras. We are many and we are mighty. We can do all things if…you can find us and we’re not on appointment. HAHA)
The problem was and still is, it’s like offering people a job who have sat on their asses for years, you get a big “fuck off, I’ll take my money and keep sitting”. Rarely, does anyone takes advantage of the programs offered specifically for them. If they do, they take the money, get passed through like playing the Game of Life, graduate with a hollow degree, then offered jobs before qualified applicants through EEO.
Yea, been there done that Omar. So, piss off.
(I write this as a Vietnam vet who took advantage of the GI Bill. I was denied entrance to 2 universities because the slots left were set-asides. As told to me by the honest, also a veteran, admissions officer who pulled me aside and helped me understand the suck. I did finally enter and finish my undergraduate degree in my home state of North Carolina, thanks to the GI Bill, and later my graduate degree through the help of generous, veteran-friendly employers.)
BINGO!!!
RACIST!!!!!!
Joking.
Welcome Home! Thank you for your service!
I call em like I see em Brother.
Free college for everyone except veterans left/libtards mean– you know “national service” doesn’t include military for them, so…
Sure let’s take away one of the benefits service members have to earn and give it to everyone! Notice I said ‘earn’.
Hell no to “everyone”. If they want to join AmericaCorps, Peace Corps, or any number of other federal jobs that support the common good something could be worked out. If you’ve got nothing to offer, apply for scholarships or don’t go to college.
I am for a form of GI Bill for all. I am also for the fact all who apply myst “earn” it…. Service….. service…. suffice it to say I don’t care what type if service…. serve our country, serve our citizens… peace corps, americorps… army corps… lol…. serve and earn.
Agree with you both. Military service should be the default, but for those not able to serve for physical limitations an alternative should exist. Simple. You want to get the free college, sacrifice yourself for 4-6 years. The side benefit is even the Peace Corps will teach some useful real world skills.
…my Corps, your Corps, MARINE CORPS!!!! Sorry, just had to get that out…
YES!!! Starship Troopers!!!!
Everyone gets free GI Bill …. after they do the minimal federal (let’s make it public) service for 2 years.
Not quite “Service Guarantees Citizenship.”
Mebbys “Successful Service Guarantees GI Bill.”
Would you like to know more?
Especially if there’re coed showers involved…
There are many good people who cannot qualify for the military service because of disease or accident. I’m thinking of the folks who’ve lost limbs or organs due to car accidents, got cancer in high school or earlier, those with asthma, diabetes, or just being good old boys saying, “Watch what I can do”. I would have rather served with them than the folks who started the count-down to an entry level discharge the second they got off the bus, and yet somehow, still qualify for GI benefits.
If there was a way for the 4-F citizens to gain GI equivalent benefits through legitimate Federal service, I would support that. Gaining benefits for just being born would be a travesty that I could not support.
In can be done. It would also tend to be messy.
The ST version was that federal service was -dangerous- and -unpleasant-, but no one could be refused.
As I said in the other thread, there’s an easier and cheaper way to achieve this objective: Just have the US Government grant every person a bachelor’s degree on their 21st birthday, gratis. On their 23rd, a Masters degree and on their 26th, a doctorate, from the university of their choice.
I mean, to hear some people talk, the only difference between a person with a degree and a person without one is that “piece of paper.” The government is good at printing paper, right?
It’s not about learning to manage your time, make sacrifices, how to work hard towards a specific objective, how to defer pleasure or self-gratification in pursuit of some goal or exposing yourself to new ideas or ways of thinking. Nope, it’s all about that sheepskin. So just issue ’em out.
Problem solved, right? Once every homeless person or marginal student has a college degree, he’ll be able to get that high-paying white collar middle-management job and coast all the way to retirement.
Oh, this Will Fischer.
“Will Fischer, Iraq War Veteran and Director of Government Relations for VoteVets.org, spoke at the the Congressional Progressive Caucus unveiling of The People’s Budget: “A Roadmap for the Resistance earlier today”.”
Resistance??
Definitely NOT a fan at all of Pres. Trump from what I’ve read about him. Appears to support Pete Buttigieg.
In my opinion, Omar’s plan ( and others like her)is two pronged. Turn the majority of the population in to freeloading voting liberals/socialists and gut the military at the same time.
You want a free education, than earn it, whether it be serving time in the military or serving for the better good of this country after you graduate.
You need to have skin in the game.
How about if you put up $2700.00 the Government will match it 2 for 1 and in the end you’ll have $8100.00 to use for your education.
Ah, VEAP. What a shitshow that was.
I graduated from a big 10 college with a medical specialty in my thirties. Getting into the specific professional college was not an easy thing to do for anyone, and I had to work my way through. It is not a direct care vocation like a nurse or doctor. There were only around 100 openings for each year. After I graduated; and began to practice, I had to unlearn(with prejudice)a lot of the things they had taught me. This was in the early nineties. I’ve concluded that academic requirements for most anything need to be streamlined, and apprenticeships after learning what you need for THOSE should be the way forward. The only people benefiting from this shit are academics. Anymore, when I hear someone young talk about their degree; I assume I must speak more slowly, and with simple words and phrases. Well, I have to do THAT anyway now, but that’s a different matter. I can no longer understand their pidgin academy English…”ya like know, like intersectionality and like what I’m like sayin’ and stuff”…Trump is bad? My name is Tristan? EVERYTHING is intoned as a mumbled question! I love asking them if they’re sure when they tell me their name! STEM grads are different, but even THEY seem to be in dire need of critical thinking skills of late. At least in medicine. As for Rep. Brotherfucker,(D)Minn., I imagine what it would be like in a country where our Representatives follow the ethos of the U.S. Constitution and apply it to THEIR jobs, revisiting the core idea of ethos and ethics altogether. Why isn’t this bitch in jail? My father was a masterful bricklayer, the kind who’d be tasked with the fancy work. His brothers were Journeyman Machinists. The kind who could make complicated precise things without a CNC type machine, or with one. If I’d had a kid, I would NOT have payed for their college(no one payed for mine, not even Uncle Sam), but I would have paid for them to go to a REAL trade school. If they wanted college after that, they could pay… Read more »
Got my college degree free and it was worth every penny… less now.
“The only people benefiting from this shit are academics.”
Nice summary.
“Rent seeking” by the incompetents who thrive in academia (and only in academia nuff said)
It is already imploding, much as traditional publishing is being eaten by indie/self publishing. They just don’t see it yet because the outer shell resemble what used to be.
The online certification factory will soon overtake “degrees” because one will indicate a working asset and the other a work-less Jackass.
I’d love to see what percentage of GI Bill degrees or expenditures go towards “useful” degrees or programs, such as tech schools, STEM, business, or other degrees versus medevial lesbian art appreciation degrees.
I get the feeling a lot of GI Bill money is far better applied than the loans, Pell Grants, or other “free” money out there.
I agree. To me, college degrees should be limited to the following: education, business, STEM, or law. I used to say medical but I now lump it in with STEM because it does fall under all four letters. History should be a required elective. Philosophy should be an optional elective (though I do believe it is a requirement for law degrees). Tech schools and vocational schools should be considered as alternatives rather than treated with scorn. I know Liberty University where I am working on my bachelor’s degree in paralegal studies, does offer a bachelor’s degree in aviation as well as different medical degrees. So it’s kind of a hybrid between a regular college and a tech school.
I think history should be required as well, the caveat being it is accurate. It seems; at least to me, that it is one of the missing gears in analytical or critical thought processes today.
I too think you can also make a good argument for some philosophy, but I’d rather most of the existentialists, and “great commie thinkers” be bullet pointed with some kind of philosophical pathology, or psychopathology rubric. I’m not sure which ones, I’m no philosopher.
I’d of course be labeled a ‘fascist’ by Gen Snowstorm-trooper; since they don’t even know what an actual fascist is, for even thinking such an outrage.
I watched 2 beautiful, smart nieces go to college and come back like Stepford SJW’s. The oldest seems to be starting to recover with the birth of her child, but I can barely be in a room with the other.
It’s like being in Belfast circa 1972. No politics, no religion. I don’t know how their first 18 years could’ve been so undone?! It sure as hell didn’t work on me.
Damn, I miss Liberals that you could politely agree to disagree with!
Thanks for adding the detail about history being taught accurately and the concept philosophy. I didn’t think to add those. And I agree with you on Liberals (they certainly are not Classic Liberals). Speaking of history, there is an author who’s challenging Howard Zinn’s book The People’s History of America with her own. I can’t stand him. Talk about a grade A hypocrite, hated the US, but never moved out (probably because he liked the money). For someone who was of Jewish decent and trying to turn America communist, he should have learned that the Soviets were not exactly found of Jews. To show you what a fool he was, he probably would have been one of the first ones executed by the regime if he had succeeded while he was alive. The very same one he pushed for because he was an author.
You’re welcome, and thank you. I guess by accurately I’d just mean empirically, and from both points of view, without the editorial on ‘what’s fair’ from the professor. Let the student decide.
I once wrote in an answer on a test(Western Cultural Traditions)that, ‘terrain belongs to whomever can hold it,’ or some variant of that. I’d have been hanged for that today.
The philosophers I was thinking of were the ones lionized by The Frankfurt School Wienies. I guess Hegel, maybe Kant(I’m not up on them very well at all; and to be fair to them, their words and conclusions could have been twisted by the aforementioned ‘editorial’ process added by whomever has the red pen.
I agree with you on Zinn. He was a disaster. I’m going to have the local library get Grabar’s book for me(I took a look-see on a search engine). So was Dewey. As a kid I was lucky to have some ‘old school’ teachers. Some had taught my parents. They were all WWII Vets. I don’t know how we’re going to turn this around. It sure won’t happen in my life. Nice talk though. You’re doubtless much younger than I, and that(and this forum)make me hopeful! Out.
Didn’t mean to seem rude with that “out.” Not feeling so hot. May be as much as a week before I’m back online. It comes and goes. If you have it; and I hope you do, enjoy your health!
This may ‘splain it Lucy;
https://www.facebook.com/advice.for.whiners.7/photos/a.321578504716484/1230980020442990/?type=3&theater
Yep, it pretty much does.