The phantasm that is the “Brotherhood of Veterans.”
I had a reasonably nice conversation with Adam Kokesh at the rally the other day. Started out kinda crappy. Adam long ago had a problem with a claim for PTSD before the VA, and he got screwed, and without reason. I offered then to help, since I know people who do the claims. So, having not heard an update on this matter, I introduced myself and asked about it. Then I told him I was “TSO.”
Then it turned not as friendly. It wasn’t bad mind, it just wasn’t quite as congenial. First off, Adam is way more aggressive than I am. I’m the unicorn believing/let’s talk it over type, Adam seems to be the pointy finger/accusation type. No biggie. But I also get weirded out by people who debate while wearing sun glasses. I like to look a man in the eyes, and Adam was wearing CHIPS, circa 1982 sunglasses. But, that is neither here nor there.
Anyway, Adam has this belief that their exists an unwritten code, which he calls the “Brotherhood of Veterans” wherein you don’t “cross a line” with a fellow veteran of the GWOT. Adam suggested that Jonn’s post here crossed that line. Only, it wasn’t Jonn’s post, it was mine, and I didn’t even realize it until I went home to reread it. Well, you go read it. Was I making fun of PTSD? Was I making fun of Adam for some untold reason? No, I was drawing attention to the fact that he was engaging in truly self-destructive behavior, and his friends in IVAW ought to be cognizant of that.
So, having reread that post, I have to be honest I don’t regret any of it. Adam was mixing gin and Xanax. He tried to tell me on Saturday that he didn’t know you weren’t supposed to mix them. Seriously? Come on dude, you can’t mix penicillin and Zima, what makes you think Xanax and Gin is a good combo? He was also pretty openly threatening the police. Someone should have stepped in and said “dude, take the post down and let’s talk about this.” It either never happened, or he ignored that person. Adam’s main complaint about the post was that the line was crossed because he was having PTSD and Jonn (or me rather) was making light of it. First off, I don’t think I was making light of it at all. In point of fact I even wrote:
Look, I’m not making fun of PTSD. Two of my best friends are struggling with it, and it is no small thing. But when you start “self medicating” with Xanax and Gin, start posting conspiracy theories and arguing with your own mates, you may have a problem.
[Ed note, looks like something got screwed up in that post incidentally, as the preceding paragraph is missing Adam’s homily.]
Anyway, as I talked to Adam, I could at least see where he was coming from. And, I like the idea of a “Brotherhood of Veterans”……but then I started looking around today. And the more I looked, I realized that there was no such animal, and that my so-called brothers were totally screwing the hell out of me.
Let’s start with this article from the brain trust over at Vote Vets, you know, the guys who slandered McCain with incorrect and out of context campaign commercials at every step.
(No link for them, google it if you must)
Let us use this Iron Anniversary to come together and work to make sure that Dick Cheney cannot remake history, let us come together to honor our troops who continue to fight, and let us come together to ensure that we do not have to celebrate the anniversary of future wars that did not have to happen.
Check out just a few of our fighting veterans:
Jon Soltz, Executive Director of VoteVets.org
Paul Rieckhoff, Executive Director of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America
Garett Reppenhagen, Veterans Green Jobs Alliance
Brandon Friedman, VetVoice
[…]
For those playing at home, Reppenhagen is an IVAW guy as well. So, it would seem that Vote Vets is totally down with the Brotherhood [ney Community] of Veterans too, as long as the veterans are ones they agree with. For some reason I don’t see guys like CJ of Soldier’s Perspectives mentioned in that list. CJ is quite open about his struggles with PTSD, and spoke at last years Milblog convention about the catharsis he gets from writing it. It struck me at the time that CJ was stating everything as matter of fact, which was more impressive than even doing it out of some sort of courage. CJ just wanted to help himself, and help others, so he just got up and did it.
What about the guy I allegedly want to give a tongue bath to, Bellavia. Bells struggles with PTSD as well, and he went out and started up his own clinic where guys could come in and have a sort of group therapy where they talk about it. You know why I think the PTSD shows up later and not at the time? Because when you are there you have an entire family with you 24/7. I couldn’t even wake up cranky without “Anon” friggin all over me to snap out of it.
I’m going to set aside the list of others like that for a minute to show you what set me off today. It is a poem from an IVAW member who I will not name:
We are not your heros.
Heros come back in body bags and caskets.
We are now society’s burden,
ALOCOHOLICS
DRUG ADDICTS
POT HEADS
CRIPPLES
We are displaying our pain.
Begging for help that falls onto the VA’s deaf ears.
Pill popping to silence us into numbness and dead eyes.
WE ARE NOT YOUR HEROS.
We are now a mental diease.
NO VACCINATIONS FOR PTSD.
NO CURE for Post traumatic stress disorder.
[…]
WE ARE NOT YOUR HEROS.
We are your BURDEN
Smacking you in the face with our honesty of this needless war.
WE FOUGHT
So you have the freedom to JUDGE us.
I wish I never came back.
Look, I know this person got a raw deal in the military if the newspapers are to be believed. A really raw deal. And maybe this is just a cry for help, and believe me, I hope this soldier gets all he/she deserves and has earned, but this poem is the worst bunch of shit I ever read, and I am not talking about its mellifluous stylings or lack thereof.
The Vietnam guys had to put up with this crap too. Hollywood and their own ranks (John Kerry et al) conspired to rob them of what they deserved. If you don’t know what I mean, then read B.G. Burkett’s book: Stolen Valor: How the Vietnam Generation Was Robbed of its Heroes and its History.” The “Winter Soldiers” game us the mythos of the Viet Nam vet as rapist pot smoker who was only there to collect ear necklaces. Hollywood reinforced that with an image of Vietnam Vet as Rambo, some anti-social miscreant ready to snap at the first opportunity. Well, I have news for you: THAT SHIT IS NOT REALISTIC.
And now, we get poems like this. I realize this isn’t Maya Angelou, and in the grand scheme of things this won’t amount to much, but WHY ARE WE PERPETUATING STUFF ABOUT US THAT IS FALSE?
I’m not society’s burden. I’m not sitting at home smoking pot all day. I may be a bit broken, but a cripple? Bull shit. An alcoholic? I bought 6 bottles of Guinness last Wednesday to enjoy while watching the NCAA’s. I have 6 left. Begging for help from the VA? I go to the VA, and while I have to grumble about them occasionally, when I got kidney stones they brought me right in and hit me with the painkillers. Just today I talked to my doctor on the phone. No vaccine for PTSD? No shit there Margaret Sanger, there isn’t one for Diabetes either, should we just euthanize those with that too? There’s no cure, but there is treatment. And bull shit poems like this don’t encourage people to get help, it encourages them to feel worthless and weak.
Stop speaking for me. Seriously. And stop speaking for the men I served with. Men who struggle with many of the same problems you do, only they don’t take to maligning our entire class in poems that perpetuate myths conjured from the depths of a 4th point of contact. I am sorry you are having problems, and I would love to help in any way I can, seriously. It is part of the reason I do what I do in my professional life.
Let me ask you: if (and this is a big IF), employers are reticent to hire vets to work for them, how is acting like we are all lunatics on the edge going to help that? “Hey America, we’re your burden now, bwahahaha.” How does that help our plight?
I have a very close friend that I served with overseas. He had a medical issue a few months into deployment, and had to be taken out of theater. And by taken, I mean strapped down and shot up with a ton of pain killers. Anyway, he had trouble dealing with both what he had seen and (I personally believe) the fact that he left before the rest of us. None of us thought he should have stayed, given the pain he was fighting daily, but in his mind he seemed to believe he shouldn’t have left us. Between that and the stuff he saw, he had problems. About a year after I came back, I talked to him and we decided to go out one night. We went out drinking, something we probably shouldn’t have done, but we did. We talked about problems he was having. He looked like he should have a pet bear and live in the mountains. He didn’t have a job, and felt worthless because his wife was the breadwinner. The next week I called him and told him to send me his resume. He did. And I got him a job a few weeks later. In a short period of time he got promoted at work. Because of hard work, and the fact he is wicked smaht.
As I write this post, he is currently sitting before the House Veterans Affairs Committee testifying about mental health issues of veterans. He’s trying to help his brothers and sisters in arms.
I didn’t so much get him the job and help him out as I did just pointing him in the right direction. And frankly, I wanted coworkers I knew I could count on. So, I’m not lauding myself for helping a vet out, I’m more thankful that I had a friend that could help all of us.
Before writing this, I talked to Army Sergeant. Roughly half of you hate her, but I like her. She’s WAY WAY WAY different than I am in many regards, but I do like the way she thinks, even when I disagree with her, which is roughly 98.6% of the time. We were discussing how the feeling of powerlessness is the true enemy of veterans. That you are trapped, and you can’t get help. This is what she said:
There’s a fine line between “I’m screwed up, so it’s okay to take no responsibility and claim I have no ability to change” and “I am partially responsible for what happened, but there was also a mental component, and I need help to fully get there.” I see a lot of the former in people like us with PTSD, unfortunately. Much as it kills me.
She’s right. Some of us need help, and we ought to be offering it freely. But we also need to take responsibility for our actions.
Anyway, I think this all ties together with the general theme of the brotherhood of veterans. I’m not going to sit by idly while a brother or sister –in arms destroys their life. I’m going to call them out on it, and offer what help I can. But I am also not going to sit here while poems and stories like that one above paint a picture of us that isn’t reality. Veterans represent the full spectrum of society, thankfully, and the only thing that binds us is our service. But that doesn’t give anyone carte blanche to malign us.
So, kinda curious to hear what you guys thoughts are on this.
Category: Politics
Well, you know that I tend to believe in the Brotherhood of Veterans as well. It gets overlooked a lot just because of my proclaimed additional membership in the Unicorn and Rainbows Society of America. (Speaking of which, I’m pleased that you’ve signed on to the Unicorn Agenda) But I do really believe in that-I believe that if you signed up to serve, that you are brothers of a kind, and should behave that way. “A veteran – whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve – is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to The United States of America, for an amount of “up to and including my life.” This applies no matter what the race, creed, ideas, region, or what have you. This is why I do count among my acquaintances folks like you, and Lilyea, and CJ Grisham over at Soldier’s Perspective, even though you strongly disagree with my politics. Sometimes my brothers screw the hell out of me, too. Note my recent post over on my own blog about my local VFW commander, who’s made it his own personal mission to make my life hell because I oppose the war. It happens, and it’s really shitty, and I agree with you that it shouldn’t be going on. I think we need to try to set the example. I agree with you that PTSD shows up worse when you lose that supportive ‘family’ type environment. For me, that supportive environment was and is other IVAW members. Coming to Germany took a lot of that away from me, and I’ve been worse since arrival. I think it’s hard when you have people who want to look at extremes. Some people want to believe there is nothing you can do about PTSD, and you will never get any better. Others want to believe that PTSD doesn’t mean any negative consequences, that it’s simply mind over matter, and you choose whether or not to be affected. The real truth, like so many, I think is somewhere in between. PTSD isn’t… Read more »
I watched Uncle Jimbo’s interview and came away with the impression that Kokesh is delusional and easily manipulated. His remark about Bob Barr being in the CIA, his arguments about vague enemies and corporations. It’s hard to take him seriously. It’s even harder to accept the proposition that he speaks for me when everything he says I find absurd.
I’m not saying that we shouldn’t keep faith with our fellow veterans, but I am not drinking the Kool Aid when to do so would mean abandoning every virtue I hold. By the way, unlike Adam, my virtues and principles remain unchanged from the day I enlisted 22 years ago. Still serving faithfully and headed for the sandbox soon.
Been reading your site daily for about a month now. Don’t always agree.
But sincerely Thank You for that post. It means more to me than you will ever know.
TSO Wrote: Thanks MSG, appreciate that, and thank you for your service. And heck, Jonn and I don’t always even agree.
Wow. That was a hell of a post, man. And in these ever increasingly strange times I find myself agreeing with people I never thought I would. I agree Army Sgt AND with Adam Kokesh (write down the date) that there is an invisible Brotherhood of Veterans and that we should work to support each other whenever we can> I believe this because I know that all of the faux fanfare and pseudo-support will disappear as soon as the government money gets tight, it’s no longer socially or politically fashionable, and/or as soon as pop-culture starts marginalizing us again.
I also agree with TSO in that this Brotherhood is commonly sabotaged from within by its own ranks. When vets complain about how they are helpless victims without recourse they do themselves and their brothers a disservice. Even more of a disservice is ignoring the plight of vets or a particular vet due to a political agenda which some groups do. I don’t think TSO was making fun of Kokesh, I seriously think he wanted the guy to get some help… in fact I know this to be a fact because he told me so at the time. Anytime some guy starts going a little “high and right” TSO actually does mention his concern about the guy if he thinks that it’s a valid issue.
The bottom line is that yeah, there is a Brotherhood of Veterans, yeah we should be backing each other up… but we’re not for various reasons. If we could just get off the whole “should we be there or shouldn’t we be there” bullshit then we could get down to the brass tacks of “we WERE there… now what?” That’s when we start taking care of vets. That’s when we start supporting each other as a Brotherhood of Vets. That’s when we say finally say, “quit arguing about who broke Humpty Dumpty and let’s try to find a friggin’ omelette recipe already.”
TSO…I feel that we must stick together as much as we can as long as we don’t give up on our principles.I am a disabled vet who feels as if I have been through the ringer a few times to many.I have battled PTSD,Alcoholism,My lack of desire to be around people in general, among other issues!I find myself wanting to “shut down” at times when people try to get to close or ask to many questions.I am not a Hero by any means,I just did my job as others did. I find that talking with other vets who hold the same ideals and views that I hold is good therapy for me (such as this blog)I know I’m not alone or forgotten. I have two very good friends who help me and who suggested I Blog. It has been a good experience for me and an outlet for the anxiety I sometimes feel.I have come along way,I no longer drink,I don’t do anything any more that could be considered reckless,and I have a pretty good job that gives me back some of my pride and makes me feel like I contribute.I have learned to stand on my own two feet again (no pun intended!)and although I to still gripe about the VA at times,they are dedicated and do a good job. THANKS TO ALL OF YOU!!!
Adirondack Patriot,
I’m pretty sure Barr used to be CIA. But I believe an anaylst.
I have a real problem with anyone in VFP, VVAW or IVAW claiming anything about a Brotherhood of Veterans.
VVAW were largely responsible for the torment and pain that the Vietnam Vets suffered at the hands of the public as a result of Winter Soldier. The Winter Soldier narratives were picked up by the media and Hollywood and cast in stone. There’s so much we just know about them that isn’t true.
So the Vietnam Veterans Agaianst the War hide out under a rock called VFP because the other vets dispise them. And realizing that they are dying off, grab a hold of a few young people back from Iraq and mentor them, set up an organization for them, get them office space and phones. All so the youngsters can repeat the Winter Soldier smears against their own generation.
What a laugh about “testimony”. The only person ever under oath was Kenny Campbell, whose answers under oath in a deposition blow the main premise of Winter Soldier wide open. It was always claimed that American policy, never written policy, made everyone who served a baby killing war criminal. That My Lai was typical, not an isolated incident.
Turns out that Campbell’s “war crime” was not the result of policy, but rather a personal act of revenge upon learning that a friend had died.
It took decades to unearth that, decades where the Vietnam Vets were still smeared. And it didn’t give the IVAW any cause for pause with their Winter Solider repeat.
Brotherhood of Veterans my ass.
Where was Elvis’ Brotherhood of Veterans when he sat behind the General holding that “Generals Lie, Soldiers Die” sign?
Not exactly “I’ve got your back”…
TSO. This was a great post, which goes beyond political involvement. I think there is something like a “brotherhood of veterans’, but I am leary of what of what AS and Kokesh mean by the term. At WS II, I did not sense any brotherhood in the way Millard spoke to you and Jonn. For the IVAW crowd, the brotherhood seems to extend only to their own war, and even more to those who share their particular political fetish. Similarly, they are all too willing to accept fakes and wannabes, such as Jesse McBeth and other fuckups who are politically useful.
I have encountered quite a different, and more genuine brotherhood of veterans on my missions with PGR. And personally, I have found over the last several decades, that generally I feel more comfortable with veterans. A couple of years ago, I wrote about this over at Old War Dogs in an essay, Veterans as an Ethnic Minority (http://www.oldwardogs.us/2006/09/the_veteran_as_.html). Or maybe I should specify real veterans. Several months ago, I experienced near heartbreak when a friend, a “Major with some 150 F-4E missions over NVN” was unmasked as a former USAF E-1 fuckup. Of course with any brotherhood, it goes only so far. Some individuals you find to be annoying jerks; but they start out with a certain presumption and maybe a couple of extra strikes before they’re out. But I still have a personal prejudice in favor of veterans.
Rurik:
I will point out that it was my own belief in a brotherhood of veterans that got you, TSO, and Lilyea into Winter Soldier in the first place, despite your clearly expressed antagonism to IVAW. While I can’t speak for Geoff Millard’s treatment of you, I would ask if you or either of the other two had anything to complain of in my own treatment of you and your blogcredentials.
Raoul said: Not exactly “I’ve got your back”…
There it is!
The Sniper said it as well.
I’ll paraphrase a bit. Being selectively anti-war has nothing directly to do with any putative ‘Brotherhood of Vets’. If these folks lobbied congress about ONLY vet issues and/or spent their time parading around the VA waving signs demanding more and/or better services I’d stand with them.
But they don’t. Candidly they wind up looking more like a Fred Phelps than any sort of brave knights in shining armor.
I ain’t buying it. Don’t piss on my leg and telling me it’s raining.
AS,
No dispute on that. You got us in to the hearings, and it was Millard who got on TSO’s & Jonn’s case; as the little, unobtrusive guy, he pretty much overlooked me. And yes, I also remember that when you heard about it, you assumed something of a lawnmower relationship with Millard’s ass. It is for just such reason that some of us do not lump you in as identical with the others; you are sui generis. And of course, TSO is sweet on you because you’ve never said anything about being afraid of doplhins. 😉
Oops. I meant “dolphins”. But then, who knows maybe you’re not afraid of doplhins either.
I pretty much tried to stay out of this and I hate writing in the comments because that’s where my friends have their fun, but I have some recent experience that might impact this discussion. Here’s the email I sent to TSO after he wrote this; “While the camera was off the other day at the treehouse, Kokesh asked me what I’d done that gives me a claim to PTSD. So I have a true story that I have ready for when someone asks me that question. When I finished it, he held back a giggle like the story wasn’t worthy of his sympathy. I’ll admit it’s a fairly mild story compared to the other ones I don’t talk about, and that’s why I use it. But his reaction was the one I expected. No one’s experience equals that of Adam Kokesh – I’ve attached the narrative for his NavCom. His Hummer got shot once and he gets a medal. He kept driving even though people were shooting at him. Shit, I’ve done that in DC. And once leaving a bar in north Georgia. I sympathized with those guys while you and I were inside WS, because they were young and they didn’t know how to deal with coming back to the States and realized that no one pays much attention to returning veterans. That’s tough to deal with when you realize that the most important thing you’ve done in your life is a popcorn fart in American culture compared to Paris Hilton getting arrested for DUI. But like I’ve said before, any sympathy I had for them dissipated on the steps of the National Archives when several of them asked, no screamed, what war I was in as if there are degrees of combat experience. Naw, fuck them all hard.” Now, I’ll admit that Army Sergeant has been the exception to the IVAW rule. James Gilligan turned out to be a good guy face-to-face – but then he’s not in IVAW anymore. Generally, I’ve found the IVAW membership to be disdainful of everyone’s service but theirs. More proof? How… Read more »
A/S,
Oh plueeze, what about all the pain and suffering Winter Soldier caused the Vietnam Veterans? You don’t address that.
And you participated in the attempt to smear your own generation.
Sorry, no sale here.
This is not the TSO I know. Where’s funny stories about sex-starved MILFs? But good post nonetheless. Veterans are such a small percentage of the population in our generation it’s hard to get too angry.
The point about the Brotherhood of Veterans is this-we are a Brotherhood until you break the rules and get kicked out. The one rule that I strictly enforce is that if you talk about atrocities committed by US military and you have no proof, then you are out. It’s giving comfort to the enemy, plain and simple.
But we (me included) sometimes get wrapped up in stereotypes. When I first started reading this blog, I came across a comment by AS and thought to myself ‘another wingnut” because she was a member of IVAW. John and TSO showed me that I was wrong.
So my point is this-being in the IVAW or the Communists of America is not enough to get you booted out of the Brotherhood. You are a member of the Brotherhood until proven guilty.
By the way, Army Sergeant, thanks for commenting here. It’s nice to be reminded that a dissenting viewpoint can be expressed intelligently.
Dave,
A/S chaired a panel of the original Winter Soldier prime movers at WS 2.0.
I can’t say she’s “out” but she’s really screwed the pooch by giving those traitors a second shot at smearing the troops. Tod Ensign, Tony Romo, Cortwright and such were on the panel.
Tod Ensign and his CCI cooperated with Mark Lane, author of “Conversations With Americans” a book full of phony vets with stories of attrocities. A book so flawed that a New York Times Book Editor easily identifed them as bogus.
I don’t subscribe to the commonly held standard today that as long as people don’t raise their voice, don’t show anger, be polite and smile you have to respect them, no matter how evil it is that they say.
In the case of A/S, she’ll make some pretty childish excuses for the more evil excesses of VVAW and IVAW.
How dare..I say again, how are A/S use the quote in her first post. How many members of ivaw wrote that check, only to have it bounce when times weren’t easy. To associate with a group that welcomes, hell praises men and women who did not live up to their end of the bargain and backed out of their obligations which then left other soldiers exposed to harm more so then what the chain of command was planning for…
You Cannot say you support a veteran, support a soldier, pray for a troop or their family, pretend to give 2 shits about this country and what it means/takes to be an American, and then give refuge to the enemy.
A/S, how many of your brotherhood of frauds have been exposed, how many lives were risked by under manned squads being sent into combat, how many were killed because of the men and women that you so gladly sign your name next to in the ivaw roll cared more about their safety then the man next to them. Maybe its because I’m 11B that the bond is stronger then whatever it is most of your garbage claim to be that I foster such anger at the fact they left others to carry the torch so they could stay home.
You disgust me. You speak about your accomplishments and the wondrous things your organization and you can or do accomplish, all while you feed the fire in the hearts of the enemy by spouting untruths about our soldiers that the msm picks up and runs with.
I cannot express how absolutely furious I am that you sit there and even exist.
I was there, I did it, I did my job. I came 15′ away from being 1 million bucks in my parents bank account, and you are NO member of any brotherhood I want to be a part of.
Ponsdorf: I’ll admit that I spend more of my time focusing on active duty issues. I do focus on vet issues as well, and I will call out people regardless of their war stance. For example, IAVA is on my shit list right now because of their endorsement of GI Bill caps. Jonn: Sometimes individual people don’t live up to that standard. But I don’t think it makes the entire organization suspect. I was definitely not happy when TSO got turned away despite being specifically invited, and I came running to call them on it when it happened. But the anti-war veterans don’t have the only claim to questioning PTSD. I’m constantly questioned on mine, even though I’m really upfront about why I have it, if not the individual details. Because the enemy was in my house instead of out on the streets, a lot of people sneer. Hell, my first sergeant sneered when I told him about it, even before I knew that the way I was freaking out was due to PTSD. I think we all need to be more understanding that individuals have different situations and different causes. Raoul: The panel I chaired at Winter Soldier 2.0, as you call it, was titled “Breakdown of the Military”. Instead of talking about atrocities, it talked about how our national defense has been weakened by the war, and how the military standard has been weakened by the need for more troops for Iraq. Tod Ensign, Tony Romo, Cortwright, were not on my panel. My panel was all recent vets and IVAW members. I didn’t have a single civilian or Vietnam vet on my panel. I’m not sure if you have me confused with someone else. Dave Thul, And thanks for showing the reasonable aspects of your own side. Really, I have nothing against it-I completely understand why you feel the way you do. I just happen to feel differently. TSO’s Anon: On that score, I have a few things to say. First, I know that people tend to point out the IVAW members who have skipped out. But what… Read more »
A/S,
let me put in my 2 cents as a civilian, ok??
1. The fact that nobody knows the names of Jason Lemieux and Casey Porter but everybody knows the names of all misfits and AWOLs who are the members of IVAW should make you furious and wonder if the organization you defend here is really what it proclaims to be.
2. I always give people benefit of the doubt but you lost me and lost your argument with me when you wrote “But then I started looking into why some of them had gone AWOL”
3. As for LIncoln, the main difference between that war and now is that Lincoln fought in the Civil War, the War that by its definition means fighting your own brothers. Going AWOL under those circumstances could be very understandable and forgivable and this was the reason why Lincoln did what he did. TOday, we are talking about deserting in the face of the real enemy hell-bent on destroying our lives and our country and leaving your brothers one man short to fight. This is not understandable and not forgivable.
And what about recruiters Army Sergeant? Aren’t they part of the brotherhood of veterans too? I am sorry, but you cannot be pro-veteran and vehemently anti-military at the same time.
http://www.befriendarecruiter.org/aboutbar.html
Befriend a Recruiter
“Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) and the Portland, Oregon based artist collaborative Red76 have joined together on a counter-recruitment project entitled Befriend a Recruiter; an initiative with the goal of clogging the military’s ability to enlist new recruits. By having as many people as can be galvanize pose as individuals interested in joining the Army, you, as part of Befriend a Recruiter, can help begin the end of this war. By flooding recruiters and recruitment centers with phone calls, appointments, questions, and smiling faces, we force recruiters to occupy their time and resources on us. By your calling and asking every question you can think of, about all the false opportunities the military offers, you are stealing away recruiters’ ability to successfully recruit.
“Red76”, sounds like a bunch of “Che” t-shirt wearing Mastercard Marxists who are unaware of ol Dou’Che’s executioner’s job & racist attitude towards Blacks and Mexicans…
“Oregon based artist collaborative Red76” sounds like a bunch of Mastercard Marxists sporting Che t-shirts. Blind sheeple who aren’t aware of the deceased Dou’Che’s executioner job & racist attitude towards Mexicans and Blacks…
A/S,
Mea culpa for confusing you with Dougherty. That was a mistake.
In the meantime, that part on the panel guy’s claim about Rumsfeld being embarassed because that Guard Soldier asked about “hillbilly armor” is so much BS.
A reporter put him up to that. When he asked, 97% or so of his unit’s Humvees had their armor installed. The official stuff, not Hillbilly armor. And the next day, the remainig 7 or so vehicles were completed per schedule. When that unit went north, all were armored.