Electoral College

| February 28, 2019

2016 electoral college aW1

Since the 2020 race for the White House is heating up, arguments over the Electoral College are as well. Democrats want the thing abandoned, which is understandable if short sighted. Republicans and most Independents argue the it worked as intended- leveling the playing field between densely populated areas and those less inhabited. Surprising no one, our own VoV has some thoughts on the issue, and here they are:

Veritas Omnia Vincit
The Electoral College, Genius Concept or Bad Compromise with Unintended Modern Benefit?

As veterans we all tend to be a bit more politically aware and astute than most of our apathetic, lazy fellow American voters among the public at large. Consequently we are often far more aware of our history, aware of the current state of affairs and how our history has affected that current discourse.

Being Facebook challenged at times I often miss the memes of the day, but when I do log in and take a good look around I never cease to be amazed at what passes for commentary on Facebook these days. One constant I see from the whiners in the Democratic Party is the constant reminder that Trump lost the popular vote, usually followed by someone on the right proclaiming the founders’ genius for a system that was designed to prevent regional candidates from controlling the entire nation.

As with all things however, the truth might lie somewhere else.

No serious discussion about the electoral college can take place without discussing how it came to be in the first place. This means confronting the reality behind the compromise that became the electoral college and how to apportion population based seats in the House of Representatives. James Madison called it a most vexing problem especially as it related to counting slaves who were forty percent of the population of the South at the time. For obvious reasons those in slave states wanted to count their slaves as part of the population even while denying them the basic liberty and equality the Constitution was offering those who were trying to start a new nation. Women couldn’t vote either, how to count these people who had no say in the election of those who would pass laws designed to control their lives became a rather confrontational series of discussions. The slave states knew full well that not being able to count those they considered property as people would severely limit their ability to oppose the Northern non-slave states from dictating legislation to the nation.

It would be James Madison who suggested the ultimate three fifths compromise (although Roger Sherman and James Wilson would actually propose it at the Constitutional Convention 1787) for population count thus assuring the South of control over the House with forty seven of the sixty five total seats. Without counting slaves the South would have held only 33 of those Seats. The consequence of that reality was to render the rapid population growth of the North less important to national politics, and allowing the South to control presidential politics for some time. Eight of the first twelve presidents were from the South, it wasn’t until Millard Fillmore was elected that the North’s population growth started to have an effect on national elections in a meaningful fashion.

The electoral college started as a method of keeping slave holding states relevant to US National politics, and of course in actually creating a United States as without that compromise the South might never have agreed to create the Republic in the first place.

Viewed in that context it’s hard to state definitively that the Electoral College was a brilliant concept to prevent regional candidates from dominating national politics. Viewed in that context it’s possible to argue that the Electoral College was a cynical attempt by the South to control national politics. Viewed in that context it’s possible to argue that the Electoral College is a constant reminder of one of the uglier parts of our history. I’m a firm believer that reminding ourselves of our capacity for ugliness, and our past history that contains much ugliness, is a positive way to avoid ugliness in the future. Counting a slave as three fifths of a white person is a reminder of our ability to dehumanize other humans.

With slaves and women obtaining the vote it’s obvious that the three fifths compromise was rendered obsolete by the respective amendments that created those rights for slaves and women. We were, however, left with that Electoral College and how it now impacts our elections. For me this is where the law of unintended consequences comes into play, because something that might have been a less than elegant original compromise has become something actually quite useful to our modern politics and created a situation where something that helped maintain a seriously unfair situation is now responsible for keeping smaller states and their smaller populations still relevant to the politics of all fifty states.

I should point out that in spite of my words above I am a HUGE fan in favor of the Electoral College. When people ask me why I am a fan after making the comments I make above I tell them that even things that start out as a bad idea can often become something positive when that law of unintended consequences comes into play in much the same way something good can be corrupted and abused.

As most of you know I live in Massachusetts, in the western half which has less than ten percent of the total population. If you draw a line vertically through my state at the western border of the city of Worcester 5.5 million people live east of that line and a half million live west of that line. How is that relevant you ask? I’ll explain as best I can.

As there are no electoral college elections at the state level one gets to see what the tyranny of the majority that always concerned Jefferson actually looks like. In 1930 the expansion of Boston had created a somewhat tenuous situation for the city, its reservoirs were dangerously overused and continued growth would soon outpace the eastern part of the state’s ability to provide additional watersheds for public water use. All those in the majority in the eastern part of the state came up with a plan called the Swift River conservation plan despite objections from the minority in the western half of the state. The votes of those in the western half didn’t matter as they were so few and the majority was able to pass this plan over the objections of the minority. The state then used eminent domain to acquire the entire land masses of four towns, Dana, Enfield, Prescott and Greenwich. They displaced every business, every resident and offered them what the government considered to be fair market value. The dam was built, the four towns flooded and a giant tunnel project was built to move the water close to a hundred miles to Boston. That’s what the tyranny of the majority looks like, take the property of the minority, flood their towns, and steal their water.

How my cautionary tale plays out on a national level without an Electoral College is that the small population states will become the resource banks of the large population states. No one will campaign in the Dakotas and the cute start of the primary season in New Hampshire will never happen again as the only states that will matter are the ten to twelve most populous states in the country. The rest of us won’t be spoken to, won’t be included and will never actually matter to the election.

The direct election of the President was suggested in those early meetings for the Constitutional Convention, the compromise of electors in an Electoral College was put in place instead. As it turns out that was perhaps the best possible outcome even if some are offended by its very presence today.

My verdict is the law of unintended consequences took a cynical attempt at a power grab and turned it into a huge benefit to the minority population states, making it an unintended modern benefit.

Your take might be entirely different, feel free to tell me why I’m wrong.
VoV

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks, V. I’m fairly sure this will generate some discussion…
/sarc, Keep ’em coming,
AW1

Category: Guest Post, Historical, Legal, Trump!

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A Proud Infidel®™

Well let’s see, the Electoral College is provided for in the United States Constitution, thus eliminating it will require a Constitutional Amendment which is not an easy task, thus I tell all liberals I know to just brace themselves and squeal about President trump’s upcoming reelection in 2020!!!

George V

Infidel,
The problem is states allocate electoral votes according to their own laws, apparently. There is an effort in Colorado to have it’s electors vote in accordance with the popular vote of the nation, not that of the state. The Co Senate passed the bill, and sent it to their state house.

If enough states do this it kills the Electoral College.

Berliner

Recently the case of 3 Democrat State Electoral College Electors were before the Washington State Supreme Court over being fined $1000 each for not voting for Hillary and violating party rules.

They instead voted for Colin Powell for President. They expect the case to hit the US Supreme Court. 167 electors in the US have voted their conscious previously and these 3 were the first to be fined.
https://www.kuow.org/stories/electoral-college-issue-heads-to-washington-s-supreme-court

GDContractor

GeirgeV is correct. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact.

Something that Robert Reich has made a video about, promoting it. I hate that prick.

Thunderstixx

After the behavior of the clowns on the left since the 2016 election doesn’t guarantee the election of whichever moron happens to get the d-rat selection.
Seriously, the crap they have pulled is pretty much against most Americans moral compass.
The murder of born babies for the convenience of the meth head mother so she can continue to trade her junk for more meth or whatever…
They are essentially saying that a child with Downs Syndrome, Cerebral Palsy or any of a host of other birth defects has absolutely no human rights whatsoever….
If you’re ok with that, may I suggest you move to Germany where the resurgent Nazi Party and the Muslims seem to be gaining a huge foothold judging from the Antisemitic crap happening in Europe…
So the point is that Trump may win the popular vote in the nation so the morons on the left would be left whining about the unfairness of the Electoral College even after they jerry-rigged the process…

Prusmc

As if this would make a difference. Colorado is as safe a Democrat state as Rhode Island, Vermont or California.

Fyrfighter

Sadly it has become so, with all the illegals, and californians moving in and bringing their stupidity with them.

George V

Another good article, VoV.
The Boston water situation sounds much like Los Angeles taking all the water from the Owens River in California in the early 20th century. Big cities have a habit of gloming on to the resources of rural folks.

Reading in your article about the slave counting conundrum reminded me of the current controversy of asking citizenship on the census. I recall reading that currently aliens, both legal and illegal, count toward Congressional representation.

Roh-Dog

What if I told you large cities are populated by businesses whose lone purpose is to squeeze every cent from people who labor for a living?
What if those same businesses where heavily subsidized by tax dollars when deemed ‘too big to fail’ even though they set the rules they are statutorily required to abide by?
What if those same businesses used the monies they expatriated from their ‘customers’ vis-à-vis ‘mandatory products’ to lobby governments for other resources they couldn’t attain via a free market?

26Limabeans

Boston’s Metropolitan Water Commision had the highest quality drinking water when I grew up on it. Then they upped the chlorine.
Then they added Flourine (teeth).
Years later I lived in nearby Woburn which was not on the MDC. W.R. Grace Co. poisoned the aquafer. The water was deemed non potable and could be used for showers and flush only. It was like taking a shower in hot dog water with dash of Monsanto and a splash of Dow.
The site was the old Abejona pig farm and tannery that we used sneak into as kids.
Good story if you google W.R. Grace Woburn.

Even more years later a vet friend acted as atty for the plaintiffs, absconded with the cash but later turned his life around.

Sorta like Love Canal.
It’s a good read if you just google W.R. Grace Woburn.

bman

I live in western Kansas, we have no say in state wide politics due to population, yet we pay for most of the bennies that eastern Ks. gets. Same Same for the electoral college. Without it Kansas has no say in national politics. Rural vs. Urban is a fact.

A Proud Infidel®™

Kinda like how Illinois is politically extorted by Chicago and Cook County or NY is by NYC?

Roh-Dog

Connecticut by New Haven, Bridgeport and Hartford.
California by LA, SF, etc.
Colorado by Denver, Colorado Springs, Pueblo.
Arizona by Phoenix.
Florida…
Texas…
Etc, so-on, so forth.
You get a population high enough people abandon common sense.

Berliner

Don’t forget to add Washington to that list.

In downtown Seattle junkies seek out police to shoot up publicly in front of them knowing they can’t do anything.

The King County Prosecutor refuses to charge anyone for personal possession amounts of heroin and meth.

The King County Clowncil funds $2.5 Million for needle “exchange” (where they give junkies however many needles they want without returning the used needles). They also want a “Safe Injection Site(s)”.

The Seattle City Clowncil pondered (briefly) funding and providing “safe” Fentanyl-free heroin to junkies.

If you travel to downtown Seattle, watch were you step. Public defecation enforcement is absent and camping on sidewalks is allowed.

Roh-Dog

I’m very familiar via videos and articles, not directly.
The local taxes to subsidize this crap is retarded.
Amazon decided to cancel a Seattle expansion, can’t blame them at all.
Add to the drugs, throw in the Antifa nonsense and you have a recipe for a true ‘no-go zone’.

Fyrfighter

One correction Roh, While C-Springs has enough population to be included in tat list, it votes with the rest of the state. The leftist core that has screwed this state is Denver, Pueblo, Fort Collins, and Boulder.
Otherwise spot on!

A Proud Infidel®™

So those localities you mentioned pretty much do to CO like what Chicago and Cook County do to Illinois, ditto with NYC doing the same for NY State.

CDR_D

Daughter and son-in-law live in Colorado Springs; they say it is still sane for the time being.

Roh-Dog

“One constant I see from the whiners in the Democratic Party is the constant reminder that Trump lost the popular vote…”
So did Secretary Clinton, she won the plurality of votes. Regardless, anyone that proposes a change to the Electoral College does not understand the principle components that formed and administer this Republic.
Here in Connecticut they’ve signed on to the idiotically named National Popular Vote Intestate Compact, or as I like to call it The Let’s Start Civil War Part Deux Mutual Suicide Compact.
It’s idiotic to pass the Executive functions of the Federal government to the largest faction, that folks is called tyranny.

Veritas Omnia Vincit

I wonder if Trump wins the popular vote in 2020 if Connecticut and others will quietly go back to not sending their electors to the winner of the national popular vote.

I’ve mentioned I have my boat stored in CT, so I keep up on CT politics a bit as it impacts my decision to stay in CT harbors or move to Rhode Island with the boat. I saw this vote happen and it immediately made me wonder if this would be a law of unintended consequences for CT electors in 2020. That would be hilarious for me, we saw something close in Massachusetts when the idiots in Boston decided that they didn’t want governors appointing senators because Massachusetts has had a series of Republican governors and the Democrats were afraid they’d lose a senator to the Republicans so they passed a special election law for vacant seats…Scott Brown won a special election in 2010 defeating a lackluster Martha Coakley campaign…they’ve quietly taken that special election law under consideration for repeal and replace with direct appointments again…

Roh-Dog

The LSCWPD/MSC won’t trigger until 270 Electors worth of states is reached, 98 to go.
They may actually do this.
My hope and prayer is that it blows up in their stupid faces.
The idea that you can bribe the underclass to vote for you with someone else’s money is absolutely disgusting.
BTWs, our Glorious Leader Ned Lamont wants to tax boat storage and maintenance. My unsolicited advice, run. Run away.

Veritas Omnia Vincit

Taxing my storage would make Rhode Island more attractive to be sure. The problem is I really like Westbrook and the Marina that we’re in…folks are wonderful the town is beautiful and it’s like a second home for six months out of the year.

Roh-Dog

It is all of that, same with the Waterford area. It’s pricey and only going to get worse. Death by a thousand cuts once tolls, gas tax, storage tax, local taxes are raised.
I’m telling you, with the Teachers’ pensions being foisted back to the towns, which they should have been in the first place (but), the town property taxes have only one direction to go.
$2.2B in the red, the music in about to stop.

Veritas Omnia Vincit

Waterford hosts Defender Marine, I but a lot of stuff there and when I had a race car at Riverside Speedway thirty years ago we went to the Waterford Speedbowl a few times to run down there…the folks that ran that place were always great to us and very glad we were willing to drive down to their facility.

CDR_D

If the smaller states end up disenfranchised by the larger ones, that would break the compact and the smaller ones would be entirely justified in seceding.

5th/77th FA

But, but, but…The resident Love a Commie for Mommy said just yesterday that dTrumpster barely won the Electoral College vote. Your chart must be wrong! /s/

When Old Cotex becomes Ma damn President, will I get to attend the Electoral College for free? Who will be in command of the free sh*t army? Can a popular vote still tell the socialistics enemies of our Republic to kiss our collegiate asses? Can a system that has served use so well for nearly 250 years continue to serve us so very well? So many questions, so few correct answers.

Good post VOV. Keep the hits a’coming!

A Proud Infidel®™

I heard that not only is AOC stupid enough to flunk a blood test, she has also screeched for FREE TUITION to the Electoral College and she still looks forward to meeting and working with Phil Abuster!

Jarhead

Hey API, give her at least a tiny bit of credit. She not only passed the Pepsi test after months of studying, but scored 100% on an eye exam. Then again, it makes me wonder about the fact that she doesn’t use birth control, ’cause the pills keep falling out!

Roh-Dog

When Tovarishch Cortez becomes Premier, I wonder what her liquidation squads will charge the family for the bullet used to silence dissidents?
I’m going to start saving now for a head shot, no bayonet for this guy!

HT3 '83-'87

After 200 plus years of working, The left wants to scrap it after losing an election…boo-effing-hoo! There is no way 40 states are going to vote for an amendment that makes them irrelevant in national politics. Some already blue states want to change their allocation but they don’t & won’t ever get enough states to change the rules. Typical cry-baby crap…waaaaaaa! I lost…waaaaaaaaaa! change the rules so I can win!…waaaaaaaaaaa!!!

Commissar

Darn, I would love to get knee deep in the discussion. Unfortunately I have too much to do today.

However, some of the people that respond to my posts most frequently rarely do so with anything substantive. So they can just pretend I said some disagreable argumentative shit that they did not comprehend, misread, took out of context, or otherwise triggered them and then respond with their normal reflex…

Just did not want them to think I neglected their need for my attention today (Ex, Infidel, Whitey, et al.)

Your welcome.

IDC SARC

Do all the things!:)

Roh-Dog

sub·stan·tive
adjective
/ˈsəbstən(t)iv,səbˈstan(t)iv/
1. having a firm basis in reality and therefore important, meaningful, or considerable.
2. having a separate and independent existence.
Like Federalist Number 10?
“The friend of popular governments never finds himself so much alarmed for their character and fate as when he contemplates their propensity to this dangerous vice.”

GDContractor

“substantive” : the inverse of Lar’s comment asserting stolen victimhood.

Skyjumper

“Just did not want them to think I neglected their need for my attention today……”

No Commie-Csar, most likely what you really meant was:

“Just did not want them to think I neglected MY NEED FOR ATTENTION TODAY……”

Just Lurkin

Lars just wants for all of us what prog politics have brought to California-one city covered in homeless poop and the other fighting an outbreak of typhus.

A Proud Infidel®™

With or without used hypodermic needles thrown all over the place? And let’s not forget a BAN on plastic straws to saaaave the enviwwoment!!!

Just Lurkin

With needles but also with billions wasted on high speed rail to nowehere and a state pension fund on the verge of bankruptcy.

HMCS(FMF) ret

Bussing tables at the “Hammer and Sickle Soy-Boi Emporium” again?

What’s the special today? Tofu Grape Nuts?

Twist

*You’re

A Proud Infidel®™️

I knew I lived rent-free in your head, thanks for proving it!

Jarhead

You again? If I wanted to listen to an asshole, I’d just fart.

Poetrooper

Good piece, VOV, although I might take issue with your characterization of the Electoral College as a “cynical attempt at a power grab.” I think it could be more accurately described as a realistic and necessary 18th Century attempt at self-preservation, which also happens to describe quite precisely what it continues to be in the 21st Century for non-urban America.

Veritas Omnia Vincit

One man’s realistic and necessary compromise is quite often another man’s cynical power grab.

Several historical examples from several time periods come to mind…

Thank you for the kind words Poe I’m enjoying the praise and the criticism with equal joy at the moment.

LC

As it turns out that was perhaps the best possible outcome even if some are offended by its very presence today. I’m certainly not offended by the Electoral College, but I am somewhat cynical regarding the principled rhetoric around it – and, like before, this also applies to both sides. Democrats have wanted Texas to split its electoral votes, and Republicans have opposed that vociferously. Yet, in California, the reverse is true. Naturally, this isn’t because of some principled argument, but rather each state doing that would benefit the party arguing for it. And there’s little doubt in my mind that should Texas flip Blue in the near future, the Democrats behind the push to split its EVs would suddenly make an about-face. Moreover, I think that applies nationally too. Two of the biggest demographic shifts that we face are a) minority growth, which offers the Democrats more votes, and b) an aging population, which skews Republican. If the population weren’t aging, it’d only be a matter of time before minority populations in Florida and Texas made them solid-blue states.. and if we reached the point where this all-but-guaranteed an electoral win for Democrats, well, I’m pretty sure all the principled defense of the electoral college by Republicans would fade into some grave concerns. All those aside, though, my main problem with our elections isn’t the EC, .. it’s my fellow Americans. The ones who don’t vote. I don’t care which way someone votes, but it’d take a lot of data to convince me there isn’t a huge element of chance in our current elections. Grid-lock around the Beltway? Some assholes will justify skipping out on voting because they won’t be able to do it and still get home for their favorite television show. Thunderstorm in Orlando? Well, some elderly lady won’t want to drive in that, so she won’t vote. In elections determined by less than 1% of the votes, a vote on any given day could just as easily have gone the other way if held the day before or after. So sure, the EC isn’t perfect, but… Read more »

AnotherPat

LC wrote:

“Making election day a holiday is a good start.”

It’s a good idea; however, you will still have folks come up with an excuse as to why they won’t vote (“Well, todays a holiday, so “I’m gonna stay home and chill” or “I’m going out of town because it’s a holiday”..)

😉

David

We already have mail-in ballots and early voting, anyone who doesn’t vote doesn’t want to vote. Now, given that those alternatives would go away given a voting holiday…. now imagine the lines at the polls. Bad idea.

Perry Gaskill

LC, I’d add a third set of relevant demographics based on population density. The splits between urban, suburban/exurban, and rural can help define political leanings in all sorts of ways. At the urban end of the scale, you have people like Richard Florida pushing for “smart growth” residential land-use densities of 40 units per acre. This is even in the face of evidence that the existing infrastructure can’t support it.

In California, such policies are often adopted as a measure to counter urban sprawl, but at least one effect is to make it almost impossible to construct single-family dwellings. Which basically sucks if you’re a family of four and want to live in a place with a backyard and grass for your kids and a dog.

One of the problems I’ve had in the past with cities, and I’ve lived in a few, is that they’ve sometimes reminded me of an old scientific experiment: Take a bunch of lab rats and put them in a cage. Keep adding more lab rats and eventually you start to notice a high incidence of apparent schizophrenia and bizarre behavior.

rgr769

They actually start killing and eating each other at some point.

26Limabeans

Funny how Maine splits it between districts.
But then again, we have ranked choice voting now so the two shall become one in 2020 and it will be solid blue.

Unless Republicans realize that the side with the most candidates always wins in the do overs. Dems field lots of fake candidates every freakin time. Reps field two at the most and only one makes it to the do over, where they lose.
Wake up, it’s coming to a town near you.

Sparks

This National Popular Vote Interstate Compact movement is out to derail the Electoral College and it looks like they will get the 270 votes they need to decide an election by national popular vote. That said, those of us in the conservative minority of states like mine, Washington, and VOV’s western Massachusetts will in effect be silenced forever. If you want to win, either convert via lobotomy to the Democratic ticket or move to a Red State. I hope this gets challenged since it is a backhanded way to sidestep our Constitution.

By the way, I woke up this morning still hating Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Funny how that works.

Sparks

P.S. Then again I would take a big step backward I guess and say, one person, one vote if…you are not on welfare of any sort and you can pass a simple civics test.

My reasoning is that no one taking from the system and not contributing should have a say and no one should be able to vote if they do not understand the basics of the government they are participating in. This means Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez would not be able to vote, as proven from her own cock holster.

That said, I am not the Emperor so there will be no pop quizzes when it comes to the next election and yes, welfare baby mammas of all colors, you get to vote for who’s gonna keep those checks coming.

rgr769

No checks anymore; they get their EBT cards reloaded. They don’t have to play “mah-check-in” and go to the bank now.

AnotherPat

Sparks:

Am still chuckling that Ocasio-Cortez and her Aide dined at a public restaraunt together, with her Aide eating a “burger”…

😉

moo

Sparks

LOL

streetsweeper

Excellent! Very well done, VoV. I’ll be for the electoral college until the day I die. That popular vote
can and will go sideways, especially for the useful idiots pushing it. There will be only one party then.

Thunderstixx

There pretty much is one party rule now…
GOP is about as useless as the d-rats and they’re catching up quick…
Paul Ryan and Mittens Romney are the best example of useless GOP RINO’s…

NavyEODguy

^^^THIS^^

Jeffery Monroe

RINOS are just as bad-But why do you good veteran live in shithole high tax leftist states with crappy weather-Not including the Stolen Valor capital of the World Florida!!

SFC_K

May the odds be ever in your favor.