Jack Henry Duncan – Fake SEAL
The folks at Military Phony send us their work on Jack Henry Duncan, a retired Master Chief (E-9). This is a bit of an odd case. Jack had an amazing Naval career and he received various decorations and awards.
This article highlighted Jack’s accomplishments on Veteran’s Day.
Jack Duncan enlisted in the Navy at age 18 out of Bakersfield, California. he became an under water explosives technician, similar to what we would call a Navy Seal Today. He also served in the Korean War and in the Vietnam War, a total of 43 years.
Jack will be 89 on June 26, 2014. He says before he knew it he was on a PT boat and told to go “Kill Guys”. He says he’s kind of a kill them all and let God sort ’em out kind of guy.
Jack wrote an article for the PT103 website about his exploits – a claim of attending UDT Training and a claim of being a Combat Demolition Swimmer.
http://www.pt103.com/PT_Boat_Veteran_Stories.html
So, off to Fort Pierce and the Amphibious Base I went for a brief school before returning post haste to the Western Pacific (WestPac) as an Underwater Demolition Team (UDT) Swimmer – a Navy frogman. There are no torpedoes in UDT, subsequently named SEALs, so I changed my rating to Gunner’s Mate. The end of the conflict found me assigned to the Philippine Sea Frontier as a Navy policeman in war-ravaged Manila until 1946.
[LINES DELETED]
Remember the term “fruit salad?” They also hung on my chest the Trident or Budweiser or Flying Pickle Fork gold pin of a Navy SEAL in addition to the Combat Craft device and the large badge of a Command Master Chief. Cripes, I looked like a Russian General with a port list!
As we previously stated Jack was a Master Chief, earned numerous awards, served in numerous commands and served for over 4 decades in the Naval Reserves. Jack was in USNATB Fort Pierce, FL but did NOT complete UDT Training. We checked all sources within the UDT/SEAL database/archives. Fort Pierce at the time had numerous Naval schools. The odd part is that on Jack’s Summary Sheet it shows UDT Device which in the 70’s they were shoulder tabs. There is NO listing of UDT Training or any UDT/SEAL Commands. In 1983 all UDT Teams converted to SEAL Teams so if he was UDT it would show in his record that he earned the SEAL Insignia (Trident). Jack was part of the PT community and most likely attended Anti-Aircraft Training in Fort Pierce. In conclusion, Jack was NOT UDT or a SEAL.
The distinction may be a challenge for people outside the UDT/SEAL community to follow but it is important nonetheless. There is more supportive evidence over at Military Phony.
Here we have another phony that takes a shit all over a great record! No need to embelish such a fine record?
WW – E-9 JACK HENRY DUNCAN took a 3-D, dysentery infested, technicolor shit all over his service.
There’s a chance that there may have been an admin clerk that was influenced to include the “UDT device” in the records, not fully understanding quals at that time.
A huge smudge on an otherwise noteworthy career. Sad.
Back in the days of yore, admin clerks made numerous errors on my records and orders. Their fave move was to change the spelling on my last name; one told me he thought the correct spelling was some other clerks uncorrected typo. Another clerk put “175th Inf.” instead of “75th Inf.” on my record of assignments when my DA Form 66 was retyped for my guard service in the 19th SFGA.
Actually, UDT did wear the SEAL trident in the ’70’s. I served with UDT from 1973 until 1975 before transferring to SEAL Team 2. Initially the UDT devices had the trident and pistol w/o the eagle, gold for officers and silver for enlisted (I still have one of those somewhere). During Vietnam (circa-’71 – I don’t remember exactly when)the trident as it is known today was then authorized for all who completed BUD/S and served with UDT/Seal teams, gold for both officers and enlisted.
I also wanted to add that his statement about SEALs not having Torpedos, thus him changing to Gunner’s Mate is also dubious (perhaps). Back then they didn’t have any specific ratings for SPECWAR, whether it was SEALs or UDT. Most of the senior guys, however, were Gunner’s Mates, but there were myriad ratings within the teams until the 1990s, when the Special Warfare rating was developed and approved.
Command Master Chief Badge … wrong move based on my qualification. Those badges are not handed out to make you look like a Russian general.
Stellar and very honorable career to be proud of. Hard to understand the thinking some time. 2 SEALS so far this week. C’mon Army Beat Navy!
Vietnam ? do not see any mention as to any service in Vietnam. Era vet ok but in country ?
His hat, which bears a customized patch that includes “Vietnam Veteran.” He also shows a ribbon, yet his records say nothing.
I think you should understand that if I tell people I was in the Navy DURING Vietnam, they immediately assume that I was stationed over there, when I was not. I simply tell them I did not get stationed in-country.
Also, I’ve been asked by current sailors what ships I was stationed on and I have to correct that misunderstanding, too.
I’d like to know only two Good Conduct awards show on his record. For as long as he was in service, he should have more than just two, but maybe that’s a clerical error.
I have a friend who enlisted in the Navy at age 17 in 1943. He served on active duty until well into 1967, and his records show him being a “Korean War Era Veteran” and a “Viet Nam War Era Veteran.” However, aside from serving in submarines in the war zones of the Pacific in 1943-45, he himself only claims to be a veteran of World War II and the Cold War.
Others may look at it differently.
At the current age of 92, we all look upon him as a hero no matter how you look at it.
Yeah, the statistics on submarine losses in Word War II are staggering. Fifty-two boats were lost (from all causes, I believe—see https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/research/library/online-reading-room/title-list-alphabetically/u/united-states-submarine-losses.html.)
The reason for the sub losses were because of a newspaper or magazine writer who was told how deep these subs could go and the A-Hole writer had it published and then the loss of the subs began. The Japanese didn’t know the depth that our subs could go and thought that they couldn’t go that deep so the depth charges were set at a lower depth than the subs went. Nothing ever happened to the writer of the article. I didn’t read the about the history on the above comment. Learned about it through books and the History channel years ago.
Yeah, that didn’t help. I’ve seen that video on YouTube; if I’m remembering right, it’s a long sub documentary, and it’s a USS Tartog crewman who mentions the depth charge settings the Japanese were using were shallow.
Where’s the VN service entries to go with the hat?
FFS…you have reached “E-9” status
Enjoy it.
Mr. Duncan, this is no way to wander through retirement and senior years. If you want to tell tall tales, then write novels. Otherwise, please stop it.
Wait….am I reading that correctly??
A WWII Service ribbon….and he finally retired a year AFTER I joined the Army in 1984???
Ho. Lee. Chit.
Way to crap on an outstanding and nearly legendary career.
Members of the Reserve Components do not become full military retirees when they end their reserve service unless they have 20 years or more of active duty service (full time AGR/TAR status counts as active duty service). Rather, until age 60 personnel without 20 years active duty enter the “Retired Reserve” – AKA become “gray area retirees”.
While in “gray area” status, there’s no entitlement to retired pay and no standard Tricare; all that starts when they move to Retired status at age 60. Retired pay can today start earlier due to contingency service, but someone in gray area status does not become a full military “retiree” and receive the retiree ID until age 60.
My guess is the “retired” date above is the individual’s 60th birthday, and that the 1978 date is the date he moved to the retired reserve.
I’d also guess he essentially became a career reservist after Korea. Per the listing of assignments on his FOIA reply, none of his assignments after Korea appear to have been OCONUS. (The sole possible exception might have been his assignment to the USS New Jersey, and had he seen service in Vietnam with the USS New Jersey his records should include the VSM. They do not.)
This is further supported by his lack of GCMs. His career spanned just short of 36 years prior to his apparent transfer to the Retired Reserve in 1978, which is enough time under the 4 year Navy GCM requirement for him to have had far more than the 2 shown on his FOIA reply. Why he appears to be lacking the Navy equivalent of the ARCAM is a good question; perhaps discontinuous TAR or other tours would explain that.
Just speculation on my part – but IMO, reasonably informed speculation that I believe has a very good chance of being accurate.
Yes, this is sound reasoning.
They either floated this or implemented it – but a retired “gray area” Reservist can receive benefits prior to age 60 by subtracting equivalent years spent on active duty in direct support of the War on Terror. So, if they were in Afghanistan for two years, they can receive benefits at 58 y/o. As stated, I don’t know whether they have implemented this or are still considering it.
It was implemented in the FY 2008 DAA, with effective date either 28 or 29 Jan 2008. But it’s not entitlement to full retirement benefits.
It’s entitlement to early receipt of retired pay ONLY – and only for contingency service performed on or after the effective date, with some IMO rather nonsensical rules regarding how that’s calculated. Full Tricare coverage and issue of retired ID still doesn’t occur until the individual reaches age 60.
You’re absolutely 100% on target Hondo. I’m a 57 yo “gray area retiree” (Army Reserve) carrying a red retired ID card. I applied several months ago for military retired pay based on the “90 day rollback” reduced age legislation you cited above. Can’t wait until I reach 60, get my blue retired ID card, receive full TRICARE benefits, and can start to take “hops” on military aircraft.
Helpful Hint: Army Human Resources Command recommends you submit your application for retired pay nine (9) months before you expect to be eligible to begin drawing it. Required documents for the application packet are available on the HRC website or call the Reserve Component Retirement Branch at 888-276-9472 to request a mailed application. You may submit the completed application to HRC by snail mail or email. Remember, retirement pay is not automatic and an application is no longer automatically mailed to you one year before your 60th birthday.
Thanks for the update info, CCR – I wonder if it’s just Army at this time, or if all services no longer send out the notice. Like you, I’m a gray area with just under 2 years to go before the Blue ID card. None of my time counts for the roll-back, so I just have to wait my time.
WOW, as mentioned in the comment a couple of comments above me that 2 Seals are in the TAH starting gate line up. Nice start for the week. All I have to say about this guy who over embellished his career is that “any bird can build a nest, but not everybody can lay an egg”
Big hat, no cattle.
If we get another fake SEAL tomorrow, it’ll be a SEAL Poser Hat Trick for the week. Go Navy!
To achieve the pay grade of E-9 in any branch and component of the US Armed Forces means you’re in the top 1% of the enlisted force. I don’t care if you’re the head cook and bottle washer in a Navy Reserve unit located in a land locked interior state – you have still accomplished something that only a very select few will ever earn.
What a shame retired Master Chief Duncan has tarnished his honorable service with embellishment. How can someone not be fully satisfied with a long and distinguished career that culminated in promotion to the highest enlisted grade?
What a jackass.
And of course there just has to be a stupid-ass vest covered in poser bling and complete with a SEAL Trident and a CAR w/Gold Star and an accompanying stupid-ass ‘Veteran’ hat.
Way to take a huge steaming dump all over your enviable ‘real life’ career, Master Chief.
(Mick sighs; shakes head)
He may rate a CAR with star, Mick. While it wasn’t created until sometime during the Vietnam War (early 1969, if I recall correctly), it was later made retroactive to 7 Dec 1941.
Many ships’ crews in World War II and a smaller number in Korea would qualify. The problem today would be documenting same if witness statements were needed.
However, if that’s the case he really should go through the process of getting it documented in his records to avoid the appearance of embellishment. And I’m guessing he doesn’t care much about that.
Not all of us were told to go “Kill Guys.”
Some of us were told to go “Wax and buff that floor” and others to “Shine the brassworks” or “Clean the head” or “Paint that bulkhead” or “Inventory those records.”
There were no medals nor a hot chick waiting for us on the pier.
Well… they seemed hot at the moment. But we won’t revisit that.
He forgot to having his hands registered as lethal weapons.
I’m going to start a new line of hats. What the hell.
War of 1812 Veteran
Rough Rider (1898)
Maybe I’ll include a bumper sticker line:
“I climbed San Juan Hill”
“Blandensburg Races: 1st Place!”
AC don’t forget Battle of Alamo/Goliad Survivor, Mexican War Veteran, I Survived Greasy Grass, oh and the classic original Air Cav, Thaddeaus Lowe’s Balloon Corps, Army of the Potomac.
You forgot the Battle of the little Big Horn hat. If the General stuck to his “Custard” stand franchise, He would not have wound up on boot hill.
Greasy Grass was what the Lakota People called that area of Little Big Horn. IMO Custer got what he deserved, felt some sympathy for his mislead troops. His wife, “Libby” was one of the original sock puppets, and if she had not been really politicing for him, he probably wouldn’t of had the LTC slot of the 7th CAV. He made every DAM (dumb as move) HT 2 Claw known to be pulled by 2LTs every where. I could go on, but won’t. Ask me some day for the story of Miles Keogh and his horse Comanche.
Custer wore Arrow Shirts.
API; GROAN
Actually Custer wore “Pierce
Arrow Shirts” lol
That WAS greasy grass!
What about “Macho Grande”? No one gets over Macho Grande.
It is actually kind of perfect to wear a hat that says “I climbed San Juan Hill.”
If anyone questions you, you simply ask “Were you there?” and when they shake their head ‘NO’ you quickly snap back with “Then STFU!”
One of my SSG’s used to tell his troops that I’d been at Huachuca since Pershing went after Pancho Villa. I guess I need a hat too.
How about a hat that says “Noah’s First Mate”? 😉
Not to be contrary at all, this is purely from being an Army puke, and knowing very little about the world of Squids, but would it have been possible for him to have received training in underwater demolitions, without actually attending the full school / getting the rating, considering the huge numbers involved in WWII? Like I said, just a question, because i know some things were quite scrambled and haphazard during the beginning of the war. Thanks to anyone that might have better info on this, and as mentioned above, if this is embellishment, it’s sad and totally unnecessary, considering his actual accomplishments.
I completed Marine Corps Amphibious Recon School for scout swimmers. We even did the high speed cast and recovery training like UDT did in WWII, so does that make me a US Army Special Forces UDT/SEAL? I think not. And, yes, it is an embellishment.
Yea, just like some Marines who went sent strait to war without ever going to boot camp. I guess it happen during the Korean War and those few guys where taught kill tactics on the boat ride over and were even part of the frozen Chosin. I still don’t understand how they could be called Marines without going to boot but I just found out about it, so I don’t know the details, but its in a famous book bout the Korean War.
Unfortunately, just because some guy wrote a book, doesn’t necessarily mean its true?
Not being a SEAL myself, but hearing this from SEALS, it seems to work like this:
BUD/S is a prerequisite to be a SEAL, which I think we all know. I don’t believe that you get the Trident upon BUD/S graduation. You have to be assigned to a SEAL Team. Beyond that, it gets foggy to me if there are other qualifications one has to have i.e. jump school, etc. to get the Trident.
Of course, I defer to a genuine frogman to answer this correctly.
FROM WIKIPEDIA:
“The Special Warfare insignia, also known as the ‘SEAL Trident’ or its more popular nickname, ‘The Budweiser,’ recognizes those members of the United States Navy who have completed the Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL (BUD/S) training, completed SEAL Qualification Training (SQT) and have been designated as U.S. Navy SEALs. It is one of the most recognizable breast insignia of the U.S. Navy.”
The first Demolitions school was in Camp Peary, and it was a joint thing with Army Engineers and the new Navy Seabees at that time. This is wear some of the first NCDU’S the Atlantic fleet part of UDT’s some what. UDT’s came from Scouts and Raiders, they formed up because the Navy wanted a GRP that could recon beach landing zones as in can beach craft make it in and then clearing obstacles. NCDU’s came about as a way to clear the beaches not as much of the Recon thing as we new the beaches and mostly what was there.
The purpose of Demolitions school was so Engineers could blast out sites and obstacles for building bases and Airfields.So When Navy wanted personnel and a Demo type school they started at Camp Peary the first UDT’s came from there and went down to the Amphib base in Fort Pierce Fla at same time they moved the Demo school down there for the Navy.
Now they had several schools down there and this guy was there, probably for the PT boat thing and some of those guys were trained in Demolitions, but not NCDU or UDT type as they had to complete what would be known today as BUD/S has not changed the basic parts from WW II to now.
Now I know some history and the NCDU’s guys (Some of the old Seabees went back to the Bees after WW II) earned the UDT Device as they completed BUD/S, but just dong a Demo school in same place no.
As for the UDT device it was probably placed in his records by mistake, as a lot of guys passed through.He just never maned up and told them it was mistake.
Where sorry on phone.
Another NOTE: This became an embellishment as soon as he used the four letter word and placed the Trident on anything related to him.
No argument at all about your last there NECC, and thanks for the clarification before that. To others that commented, I wasn’t trying to defend the guy, just making sure that what he claimed wasn’t possible.. the whole due diligence thing..
We make heroes of survivors. They don’t have to do anything valorous, be wounded, or even get in a fight. If they’re old enough and served, they’re heroes. Me, I don’t think so. Give a man his due if he served in WW II or Korea during the war, but hero? Nah.
“He says he’s kind of a kill them all and let God sort ’em out kind of guy.” Sure. Tough guy. Certainly a hero.
He has become a heroic legend in his own mind.
I was a try not to get killed and let God help me kind of guy. But then again, I’m not a fake Seal like Jack.
^this^ X 10,000 Let me go home non- perforated and with all my pieces and parts still attached.
Ditto, here. I never met anyone “over there” who wanted to get the VC/NVA marksmanship badge known as the Purple Heart.
HEY Jack Henry Duncan, you fucketh yourself!
Epic service record
And he had to take a crap all over it
Just another old, gnarly turd who refused to take a shot…..
Ya know guys and gals, as one of the few septuagenarians who frequents this place, I’m inclined to cut the old boy a little slack for a couple of reasons: one, his long service to the country during which he rose to Command Master Chief, no easy task, and two, the fact that he’s in his 90’s now and he may honestly believe his own bullshit. I can tell you that at age 77 I get my old units and assignments confused as well as the troopers I served with; my recollections of my tour in Vietnam have large blanks and things that I would have sworn to sometimes turn out not to be correct. Names and faces that my brain tells me I served with in one unit turn out to have been in another. There are a few exciting, sometimes bloody events burned into my brain but the more routine, downtime between those is a blur. And I’m a relative youngster compared to this guy. I’m sure you’ve all heard the term “fog of war.” Well, ol’ Poe is here to tell you it is a very real thing as you march through the decades to your final battle, which you are assuredly going to lose. Along that march route, you are slowly but constantly losing things and the farther you march the more likely it is that the fog of war becomes more opaque, and shapes and dates and facts lose their sharp edges. So, while the Master Chief is a bit of a blowhard, it doesn’t appear that he’s one of these phonies out to scam the VA or helpless widows. The way I’d handle this is go see the old guy and just tell him, “Master Chief, this is a new age and what you do here today in your hometown, your image, your actions and your every word, can be transmitted around the world in mere seconds. And there are people out there just waiting and watching for phonies who make false claims about military service. They call it Stolen Valor, Master Chief, for… Read more »
Yep
At 73 I often find myself suffering from the dreaded CRS syndrome. Rarely discuss any of my time in RVN, for two reasons. First, not a lot of discussion prevents the brain farts from struggling with bad memories. Secondly, no matter how you try to explain an event to someone in terms you believe they can visualize what you are saying…ain’t gonna happen. Period! Now, Jack having been exposed as a fake, given some age like his…I’ll cut him some slack. Some people I will NEVER cut a damned bit of slack to are the groups conning a gullible public through the sympathy trail. Fake ass M. Fckrs. My point refers to this past Wednesday which was the day every one of us need to gather and do something about: I just have to relate an event which happened only this past Wednesday after returning from a couple of weeks in South Florida on vacation…….. Heading North on I-75 we stopped at at a State of Florida Rest Stop exit bearing one taken care of and maintained by employees (or possible sub contractors). The State exit for the rest stop was right at one & a half miles SOUTH of the NEXT EXIT NORTH, being exit (and presumably) mile marker 309. We can only assume the State exit was 308. When I drove up and saw a sign about Donating For Veterans, my blood pressure no doubt elevated and of course I used some strong USMC “ain’t that special” language to confront the long greasy haired poorly dressed POS loser asking for donations (along with a large sign hanging down from his little table) for the so-called VETERANS IN NEED FOUNDATION……..I should mention the fact that to add insult to injury, spread across his table were probably a total of 18-20 baseball type hats, all with printing of the various branches of service organizations. Some of the hats had other remarks on them, but I didn’t pay attention to whatever they said. By the time I reached his table he began to question me if I’d be willing to help… Read more »
Well, youse are more than kind. What happened to the VN service? I still don’t see that. I might join the forgiveness parade if someone would please point out his VN war service, the one which earned him the ribbon embroidered on his hat, not to mention the Vietnam Veteran declaration on it. Flashback! 2013.
“I am extremely sorry, embarrassed and sick over this whole thing, but I can take some solace in the fact that the work I have done for the Korean vets over the last 15 years or so has been appreciated by the officers of the organization.” There you go. Ferris was 81 when he said those words. He wasn’t out to scam anyone–widows, orphans, or unwed mothers. If only he had been 90 or 91, he would have been okay.
I’ve often thought that in the age of the internet they ought to have a rule – anything that you say before the age of 18 and after the age of 90 should be given a pass. Not a cart blanche license, mind you, but some measure of forgiveness or stricken from the record if it is a one time gaff.
This is why I can never run for elected office. I said too much crap when I was 17.
The jury is still out with me for Jack Duncan – I don’t even know if he feels remorse or insists that he is a SEAL. My opinion would be different if he came clean vs. if he fought it.
Just my two cents.
RE: “why I can never run for elected office”
Then, there’s the women. Oh, yes, the women. Since I don’t have the money to pay them off, I would have to use the poor man’s defense. That’s where you shuffle your feet as you look down at them and mumble under your breath “Oh yeah, I forgot about her.”
If a man wears a Trident, he must have been a SEAL. If a man wears a VN service ribbon, he must have served in VN. Likewise, if a man wears a hat with lettering that reads “Vietnam Veteran,” he must be a VN Veteran. I don’t distinguish one from another when it comes to false claims. A false SEAL claim to me is the same as a false claim of military service, even if the liar claims to have been a stateside post-hole digger and brass collector. Of course, if one is going to lie, he may as well go for the glory shot.
Guess I’m just a softee when it comes to listening to any old geezer who likely craps in his Depends four or five times a day without having enough sense to change them. About the time I hit maybe 88 or older, it will be time for me beginning work on my own delusional biography; starting with my time in uniform during the Civil War right up to and including Afghanistan. Most people never knew about the
M 1859 .72 & 1/2 cal. triple-barreled machine gun manufactured out of hardened Saran Wrap. Oh yes, it was manufactured with O rings so we SEALS could use it underwater.
I USED to be the soft one around here, the guy who said, well this and well that. Jonn and company, meanwhile, would wait and wait and BLAM! Ev-er-y time the SOB to whom I gave the benefit of the doubt made me regret it. I am not exaggerating. Every single time. So, no, this guy gets no pass, at least from me. To my experience, old liars were once young liars.
I’m with you. It’s a similar dilemma when they die – do you give them a pass to not cause additional pain to the family?
Maybe someday I’ll be sitting in a wheelchair at some nursing home with a bib on eating my pudding, telling fake war stories to anyone that will listen.
They may say “Screw that old man and his stories” but to be honest, my mind may be swimming around in its own dementia that I don’t care what they say. Just give me some more pudding.