Maj. J. Scott Squires, Army Chaplain facing disciplinary action.

| August 7, 2018

It seems some gay Sergeant wanted to attend a Southern Baptist couples retreat with her significant other.  Maj Squires being a man of faith, hence the whole Chaplain thing, could not accommodate the gay couple.  He reached out to several other Chaplains of other faiths to get the couple into one of their upcoming events since they have no religious objection to same sex marriages.  Nah, that was not good enough because the young Sergeant wanted to go on a retreat that particular weekend.  Maj Squires even attempted to remove himself from the very event that he organized and get another Chaplain to take his place.  By then the available seats had been filled by…dare I say it, “Normal Couples”.

The investigation into Maj. J. Scott Squires has opened a larger debate over how the Army’s Equal Opportunity policy squares with restrictions placed on chaplains by their endorsing religious organization.

Triggered by these so called “Normal Couples” the Recreationally Outraged have launched some kind of pissy fit against the Chaplain and his command.  I have no idea what more the Chaplain could have been expected to do in this case.  It seems to be a popular thing to get all into how a Chaplain should conduct himself, I just never see these people doing it when the Chaplain has to tell a Deployed father that one of his children has died.  Never once see anyone, gay or otherwise, complain about the unit Chaplain when they had to tell a service member who was deployed half way around the world their spouse has been diagnosed with breast cancer.

But, may the Gods forbid a Chaplain from organizing a couples retreat.  I can personally attest to the strain deployments have on married couples.  Commands need to start pushing back against this kind of nonsense.  The issue is still festering.

You can read the entire article HERE.

Category: Politics

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NHSparky

Mikey Weinstein showing up in 3…2…1….

Dave Hardin

he weighed in on the issue a while back. This one is festering.

Nothing like a Christian hating Jew lawyer in the ranks.

Yef

That Weinstein dude is not a practicing Jew. Why is his ethnic background relevant?

Dave Hardin

He is a practicing Jew, he has said as much publicly several times.

Jeff LPH 3, 63-66

Dave; How about using the word Jewish Lawyer instead of a Jew Lawyer. A “Jew” is like a slur. Weinstein is still a shitbird and I hate to say it, the same religion as myself.

Dave Hardin

Fair enough, the stereotype exists for a reason.

Being a Jew is not a slur, being a lawyer is not a slur, being both isn’t.

His admission that he prays daily comes into play because he is supported by so many in the Atheist community. He does very little to let them know he is not atheist.

I use the term Jew in his case because he is the one that makes it relevant. It might make my post seem a bit too caustic for some…I get it.

Ex-PH2

The more caustic, the better. Curmudgeons are a necessary and relevant part of a good and balanced society.

CAPT0302

It wasn’t “caustic”, It was a fucking slur.

Jeff LPH 3, 63-66

Ok Dave; I didn’t know that he wasn’t an Atheist until you mentioned it. When I was growing up in NYC in the 50’s, I had kids calling me an f in Jew and other words. I had an incident while in Hose Co. 1 ERFD where one of the Vollies who’s father was an Officer in the Natl. Guard used to tell his son BS stories all about the “Jews” whom never served, were draft dodgers,etc. So the son is telling me all this BS and I asked how many years that he was in the Military and what branch was he in. So he tells me that he never served and I said nothing for nothing but I was in the Navy and inactive Navy Reserves plus I put in a couple of years in the Army Natl. Guard and I happen to be Jewish. His jaw dropped almost to the floor because I never told anyone my religion. We had a number of anti Semites in the Company and Department but I wasn’t considered a “Jew” to them because I served which is a stupid thing for them to say and I was a Comp shooter while working for Brink’s and a regular at the Nassau County NY Range. They used to get shit faced in the clubhouse bar and sing these anti semetic songs they made up or got from somewhere. Being thick skinned, it just rolled off of my back at the time. I guess my 5 Navy tattoos threw them off because in those days, we could not be buried in a Jewish cemetery if we were tattooed.

Dave Hardin

Fairly the same experience for me. During my career nobody seemed to give a shit I didn’t talk to an invisible friend.

With all the God, Country and Corps talk I just smiled. I had to make my own dog tags because they would not put Atheist they would only put No Pref.

I had a Pref. I didn’t want some Chaplain babbling over me if I was bleeding out on the battle field. That was my pref.

Served with, trained with, and lived with Israelis. I have been to Israel a half a dozen times. In the words of my Israeli friend, “DaVeed, there may be American Jews but always remember…They are not Israeli”.

CAPT0302

No way you’ll see this or reply, but go fuck yourself, Dave Hardin.
I’ve read though your stuff on here and you are too well read and too well spoken not to know know the implication of calling someone a “Jew” as the first part of the description.

I’ve known assholes like you my entire life. They say something about “The Jews” or “That Jew so and so”, then fall back on “Oh, I’m caustic.” or “I was joking”

I fucking dare you to call MOH recipeiant Jack Jacobs a “Jew Colonel”. Or call any Jewish person to their face, “Jew” followed by their occupation. You damn well know better, so man up an admit it.

I work in Finance and I don’t know you, might get my ass beat, but if you ever called me a “Jew Broker” to my face, we’d have words right away.

You said “Being a Jew isn’t a slur”, well, you’re right, but calling someone a “Jew so and so” is a fucking slur and once again, you know it.

Shalom motherfucker.

Dave Hardin

You mad bro? Mikey downplays the fact that he is a Jew so he can get funding from those who believe he is some kind of militant Atheist.

As an Atheist I spend too much time correcting what Mikey actually is. In my opinion he is nothing more than a flim flam man who preys on the emotionally unhinged.

Lastly, If you are indeed Jewish by faith then as an Atheist let me leave you with this.

If you are arragoant enough to believe that you and others who share your genetic ilk are chosen by an invisible sky daddy to rule the heavens and the best the rest of us can hope for is to follow some noahic jibberish so we may serve you in the hereafter…Go fuck yourself.

Mikey made an issue of him being a Jew, and now so did you. If you take offense to being a Jew…I could give a shit less.

CAPT0302

It’s not because we believe in invisible daddy in the sky, is because people try to genocide us on a regular basis because of our beliefs. So go fuck yourself pussy.

Dave Hardin

Oh really, I have been around a good number of years dip shit. Never once have I seen anyone try to genocide American Jews.

You are full of shit. Victim posturing as an effective argument is silly. You have never been a victim of, or seen such a thing in your lifetime.

We lost a half million Americans putting an end to that nonsense before you were born.

Spare me your fake narrative about victim hood. Grow a pair already.

My ancestors were killed in mass too, I do not expect the rest of the world to kiss my ass over it.

A Proud Infidel®™️

I hope Mikey Whinestein bursts into flames the next time he takes a shit.

rgr769

I’ll bet the last time Mikey had any direct interaction with a rabbi was at his bris.

26Limabeans

First thing I thought of when reading the title was Mikey Weinestein.

Sure enough, first two words of the first comment.

A Proud Infidel®™️

I sincerely wish my Ex-Wife upon Mikey Whinestein.

RetiredDevilDoc8404

Sounds like the young sergeant or her significant other had an agenda…I’m shocked. Using your sexuality as a stick to beat everyone with is not a way to advance your cause, most people don’t give a crap about it until you try to force it on them in some way, like this. Leave the Chaplain the F alone, he did his best to accomodate them yet they couldn’t accept that and be done with it. Uh-huh, take your alphabet soup activism outside the military, you’re not there to advance the cause you’re there to soldier, young sergeant do it and you’ll find yourself far less easily offended.

Jus Bill

Someone needs to remind them and their ilk that -0- is NO LONGER THE CINC. Now would be a good time to end this childish activity.

A Proud Infidel®™️

Just mention the words “President Trump” and watch them go ultra-batshit!

desert

You got that right, kick their perverted worthless asses out of our military!! imho

assemblerhead

This was a setup.

Militant Gay at the least, trying to get rid of religions that don’t approve of them.

No matter what the Chaplain did, the complaint was still going to be filled.

This was a setup.

Graybeard

Agree 100%.

And the Army, nay the Pentagon, verily even St. Mattis himself, need to beat said fairy and his sparkle pony into the mud as a lesson to the other fairies.

Fyrfighter

Actually in this case GB, it sounds like it was Sgt “Butch” and her wife…other than that, agree with your remedy 100%

HMCS(FMF) ret

Yep… sounds like a set-up from the start.

Ex-PH2

A set-up? Of course it was! Those two spoiled snots knew exactly what they were doing and had no purpose other than getting someone out of their way.

I don’t think this is going to work out quite the way they think it will. Prejudice is prejudice and THEY showed prejudice toward the chaplain by forcing him into a corner, and complaining despite his attempts to accommodate them.

I am getting very tired of this lack of civility, lack of common decency and obvious agendas by that crowd of self-centered snots. Really tired of it. Not everything is about THEM, no matter what they think.

QMC

“You must be tolerant and accepting of other individual’s alternative lifestyles, regardless of your religious belief. And if you can’t accept and embrace that alternative lifestyle, regardless of your religious beliefs, then dammit I won’t tolerate you!”

West Point 1987

I thought a unit chaplain had to minister to ALL soldiers in the assigned unit, not pass it to another chaplain to take care of when it doesn’t fit his specific denomination’s doctrine…not that I condone political activism within the ranks, but I do see a slippery slope if chaplains can pick and choose their congregants. What if the unit chaplain is a Southern Baptist and he refuses to baptize my child because we consume alcohol socially? Or a Pentecostal who wouldn’t allow me and my wife to participate in a couple’s retreat unless we were also Promise Keepers? Where is the line? Just wondering…

2/17 Air Cav

The line is easy, if we stick to the facts. The chaplain, whose name is all over the place, and the offended lesbians, whose names are shielded, is an ordained minister in a particular denomination that does not recognize the legitimacy of same-sex marriage. The chaplain’s religious practices are protected by the Constitution. The lesbians’ perverse practices are protected by policy. The Army chose policy over the Constitution and the chaplain lost.

TxRadioguy

And if he were to go against the teachings of the organization that endorses him…in this case the Southern Baptist Convention…he could lose his endorsement from them and have to stop ministering to soldiers in his preferred faith. And no matter what version of the Bible you read it’s very clear that homosexuality is a sin. Why would any chaplain want to condone sinful activity?

This major is stationed at the Chaplain School at Ft. Jackson…I’m guessing it’s one of the chaplains assistants there and her girlfriend that raised a fuss.

And yes like a previous poster said…this was a targeted thing by two people with an agenda.

CA_SGT

The chaplain chose to insert his beliefs into a non religous event. The event is not funded, nor ran by his faith. He’s 100% in the wrong on this one.

TxRadioguy

“The chaplain chose to insert his beliefs into a non religous event.”

And the militant lesbian NCO and her girlfriend didn’t? Or are you just more willing to give them a pass on the insertion of their beliefs into the event than you are the Chaplain.

Clearly you’ve never been to a couples retreat put on by the unit Chaplain.

There is very much a religious element to them.

CA_SGT

Go check out Strong Bonds and point out ANYWHERE it mentions or even hints at a religious or faith based approach. I’ll save you the trouble, you can’t because it isn’t run with said overtones. Its a secular retreat. The chaplain added requirements that were not welcome or required to run it and instead of doingwhat Chaplain policy requires, removing himself or cancelling it, he chose to go ahead with it. He deserves the reprimand.

TxRadioguy

Ok so I guess I just imagined the strong bonds retreats I went to in Germany didn’t feature the couples seminar by Pastor Mark Gungor or have faith based relationship books offered to every couple who attended. It was just a dream that we had a prayer in the PX parking lot in Vilseck before we boarded the bus to head to Garmisch for the weekend.

*rolls eyes*

And you need to read the story more closely because your reading comprehension is severely lacking. The Chaplain DID try to remove himself from the event and he DID try find the “couple” an alternate retreat to go on…the “couple” INSISTED that they go on this particular retreat.

The Chaplain bent over backwards to accommodate the two soldiers despite his disagreement with their alternative lifestyle choice.

The NCO and her girlfriend need to be told to STFU and go about their business and the Chaplain deserves an apology for being put through an unnecessary legal cluster f***

CA_SGT

The chaplain has a duty under chaplain policy to recuse himself. If he can’t find a replacement (I did read it), then he has a duty to cancel it. He knew going into it it was secular (I’ve attended them myself and we didn’t have prayers or religious instruction) and should have recused himself at the onset if he had a religious objection to administering secular functions to a particular demographic. But no, he chose to drive forward and discriminate. End of story.

CAPT0302

Forget it, .CA. I’ve been reading through this site all day. It seems to me our snowflake veteran members just want to find something to be angry about

Dave Hardin

Ahhh, the ole “Recreational Outrage” defense. You are the one who seems all snowflaky and has your panties in a bind. Tell ya what, lets just say Mikey is an ass and part friends. I will try not to piss too many people off. I did not mean to offend you, I did mean to offend Mikey but I doubt he has any shame. It may or may not have anything to do with him being a Lawyer or “Jewish”. Thanks, your “Atheish” friend.

Animal

Snowflake? Hardly. Tired of being told what I have to believe or not believe? Absolutely.

desert

Maybe…because he read the book where it says they are an ABOMINATION in the eyes of God!

Bill R.

If it was a secular program it would be sponsored by MWR. It is not. It is a chaplain-led program. From the Strong Bonds home page: Strong Bonds
is a unit-based, chaplain-led program which assists commanders in building individual resiliency by strengthening the Army Family. The core mission of the Strong Bonds program is to increase individual Soldier and Family member readiness through relationship education and skills training.

OWB

Military chaplains have been ministering to both denominational specific and general needs of military members for a very long time. In fact, ministers must agree to many things which some denominations preclude so those denominations are not represented among military chaplains. Military chaplains will assist members find a civilian church which fits their needs or when deployed assist members form groups which satisfy their spiritual needs.

OWB

Nothing says faith quite like forcing others to tolerate you while being intolerant of them. Can’t imagine why nobody would want to be around them for a captive weekend.

Yeah, there’s some sarcasm in there. Also pointing out the hypocrisy of it all. And you will note that I really don’t care whether the topic of the retreat is your sexuality or how to make biscuits. I would see the same hypocrisy if you show up demanding that pizza be made instead of biscuits were the announced topic was biscuit making.

Military chaplains are not required to violate their denominational doctrine in the exercise of their own faith and while leading others on the discovery of their individual faith. What they are required to do is find ways to meet the needs of everyone in the unit to which they are assigned. Sounds like this chaplain made every effort, and perhaps then some, to accommodate the needs of this couple who made it clear that there was nothing he could do to satisfy them without disregarding the needs of everyone else who had signed up for the retreat.

West Point 1987

That’s a good point. Well argued.

West Point 1987

For clarification, I’ve been in units where we went from a Jesuit priest to a Southern Baptist, and never missed a beat…I understand there are some exceptions made (i.e., Islam and Jewish soldiers might need something from a chaplain of their faith), but in general I’ve seen chaplains cross interdenominational lines all the time to minister to the majority of the unit…

Animal

The best I can tell he tried to accommodate them. What he didn’t do was send them to a retreat that was specifically southern Baptist. Is it just me or do these things always seem to be aimed at a few select religions and not at others like Islam or sikhism.

CA_SGT

Animal this wasn’t a Baptist retreat though. Strong Bond’s is non-religious. If the Chaplain had religous conflict hosting it, he should have canceled the whole thing.

Animal

Again it sounds like he tried to by trying to find someone to take his place.

CA_SGt

If he had religious objecttions to hosting a secular event he never should have agreed in the first place. If he was unable to find a replacement, he should have cancelled the event. He did neither. He patently violated EO, whether intentional or not (and I’m betting not). He deserves the reprimand for such.

Animal

And I disagree with you. Not on the EO violation, but on the point of whether EO should be able to make others accept that in which they do not believe. And again the EO aspect isn’t being fairly enforced.

SFC D

So your plan is to cancel the event, disrupt the plans of the other couples who signed up to attend, lynch the chaplain who by all accounts tried to accommodate the gay couple, and reward some Soldier’s temper tantrum? Awesome leadership. You learn that at WLC?

OWB

Bull.

Hondo

That’s not unique to Islam and Judiasm. Many other if not all denominations have denomination-specific requirements that can be accommodated only by clergy of their denomination.

For example: last time I checked, Roman Catholics could only validly confess to Roman Catholic priests; ditto attendance at Mass (they can attend religious services of other denominations, but those don’t satisfy the requirement to attend Mass weekly if possible). However, Catholic soldiers could receive personal or spiritual counseling/guidance in other areas from Chaplains of other faiths.

SFC D

If MAJ Squires has LTC Richard Winchester in his corner, he’s in good hands. Chaplain Winchester (then a CPT) was my BN Chaplain in 2003-2004. Prior Enlisted SFC, 11B, Drill Sergeant. I’ve mentioned him here several times. Troops loved this guy, even the atheists and wiccans. He could straighten out problem children better than anyone. Asked him his secret to success once. He smiled, rubbed his Drill Sergeant badge, and said “You gotta know when to hug ’em, and when to kick ’em in the ass”. It looks like MAJ Squires did everything he could to accommodate this couple. I’m just curious, what exactly do you put on the letter of reprimand?

Jus Bill

I suggest identifying the spoiled brat that lodged the complaint. Sounds like she had a bad case of the “Gimmes.” “Tolerance for me but not for thee.”

The Stranger

Yeah, I have a “CIB Chaplain” in my unit. Good guy all around and helped me through a tough time recently.

MustangCryppie

I am SO glad I’m retired!

I just wouldn’t be able to deal with this social justice bullshit.

HMC Ret

^^This^^

Sparks

You just can’t have a nice time anymore. Everywhere ya go, there they are. The queers lives aren’t fucked up enough as it is, so they set about fucking up everyone else up too.

HMC Ret

^^This^^

A Proud Infidel®™️

Yes indeed! I couldn’t care less if someone’s gay or not but I don’t like them waving it in my face while they demand I openly accept it.

SFC D

I’ve never had a problem accepting gays, lesbians, whatever the proper term or abbreviation is. The problem comes when I’m expected to celebrate their lifestyle. I don’t care if you stick it in a watermelon over the weekend or if your boyfriend is a girl. Just don’t do it on-duty and don’t expect me to think you’re something special.

CA_SGT

They weren’t ssking for anything special, judt to be treated the same as any other family in their unit or is that too much to ask?

rgr769

Bull. Just another example of the gay’s militant agenda against religions that refuse to endorse their deviance, but only if it is a Christian one.

SFC D

They did ask for something special. They asked, nay, DEMANDED that the Chaplain violate his religious tenets to accommodate them. Would you demand that a Rabbi make you a ham sandwich? It’s no different.

HMC Ret

I hope this professional victim becomes very unpopular within her unit.

A Proud Infidel®™️

I’m sure the complainer had it all planned from the start, if she and her other were allowed to attend as they planned they would have been showcasing themselves in everyone’s face in an attention-whoring manner and since said Chaplain put a halt to it they’re now spouting butthurt like a volcano!

Fuck the SJW’s.

5th/77thFA

“wouldn’t be able to deal with this social justice bull shit.” Preach it! “Set up.” Testify! “Festering.” Can I get an AMEN! WTH? In the time frame it took me to read the linked article, pile on the comments. Good on all. As I’ve stated before, damn have things changed. I grew up in the Southern Baptist faith, if the church doors were open, Mama made sure we were there, Papa (WWII Vet) was a Deacon, we did the whole nine yards, Church Suppers, Family Retreats, camp out, fish fries you name it. Personally, I have no problem with two consenting adults doing whatever they want with each other, BEHIND CLOSED DOORS. Don’t force me to condone, go along with, or adjust my attitude to suit yours. During my high school years, late 60s early 70s, guys were telling one another how to avoid the draft when they got to the induction center in Atlanta. Wear a skirt, kiss the Medical Examiner, hold hands, pretend to make out, whatever. Induction notice would be stamped not suitable, and they would be sent back home. When I enlisted in July 71, there were inductees there doing all of the above, and they were put back on the shuttle to the bus station. In both basic and AIT, guys that didn’t want any more would use the same tactics in front of the DS, and boom, with in 2 hours, they were on their way out. During my time of Service, I came into contact, and used the services of Chaplains of every denomination you can imagine. Never had any issues and neither did any one else that I knew of. Don’t consider my self so much as a religious person as a spiritual one. Firm believer in Karma. When you sign on the dotted line and raise your right hand you are swearing to defend the Constitution. Being in the Military is not a right, it is something you CAN do, if you are physically & mentally able. Policy is one thing, the Constitution is another. The Chaplain in this case should… Read more »

Veritas Omnia Vincit

Since I can’t find it in my heart or head to find this particular god, or any god for that matter I find the entire episode most interesting. If the gay couple knew everyone would be at this event discussing how to integrate their faith based principles into their religiously accepted male/female marriages why would they want to attend? The god those folks were using to help their male/female relationships wasn’t interested in their female/female relationship, so why would you even want to be there? It’s not like those folks are going to accept your relationship even if you were allowed to be there. They will always look askance at your relationship as some sort of abomination the eyes of their god…. Why not find a god who doesn’t care who you live with or fuck? There’s plenty of gods out there, some have no issue with being gay…choose one of those gods if you feel you need some sort of extra terrestrial presence to make your relationship legitimate. Take the advice of your chaplain and go where you’re wanted and where there would be others who share your situation. Of course the other side is why have a weekend like that if you know your unit is all of like mind? What about other faiths who believe multiple wives are acceptable would they be welcome if they were one male and two or more females? Why single out only those who share your world view and your faith while serving in your unit? Why serve at all if you know you don’t really want to minister to the diversity of the people who you may very well encounter each and every day? I’m leaning towards the chaplain on this issue being right because the Constitution does let him hold whatever views he wants to and to not be forced into doing something he vehemently disbelieves in doing. I wonder though if he’s as adamant about not ministering to those who choose to mark their bodies like the pagans do against the law of Leviticus…I mean if you’re going to… Read more »

CA_SGT

Its a non religious retreat, Veritas. Its sponsored and funded by the unit at the request if the commander. The chaplain, chose in insert, his personal faith into a retreat that neither requires it, nor bases its description around faith at all.

Veritas Omnia Vincit

That’s a horse of a rather different color then.

The chaplain should never have been involved if it were a secular event that might involve people he found objectionable in the eyes of his version of his historical documents from his version of god.

“No man ever believes the bible means what it says, he is convinced it means what he says.”

Joe Williams

Simple question, how does a person suddenly change their beliefs ? What given right For the few’s wants to control the many?If we can’t have it then no one else can. Joe

Mason

VOV, to be fair, Jesus wasn’t a Christian. 😉

I am wondering how a same-sex couple would fit in at a “regular” (or traditional) couples’ retreat. Aren’t the men and women separated for some breakout sessions? How would that even work?

Veritas Omnia Vincit

Perhaps that’s why Gandhi liked him better than those who came after proclaiming they were Christians as they followed his teachings…which they didn’t really do and still don’t really do today…because nobody’s perfect…except when it comes to disliking gays..then the bible matters, but not about tattoos, or mixed fabrics or whatever else they choose to ignore…

As for how they would fit in at a regular couples retreat, that’s a great question. I’ve never gone to a couples retreat and it will be a cold day in hell before I ever do go to one…fortunately my wife is of like mind and we have always gotten along as friends as well as spouses….I have my things, she has her things and we have our things….that’s the best way for life to work out. Nothing’s perfect, thinking you can “fix” other people only leads to you being disappointed when they don’t get “fixed” the way you want and they stay broken the way they want. You either understand they are also their own person and you can live with that or not or you don’t.

OWB

All of that is what is the issue. It doesn’t matter to me if the leader of the retreat was a chaplain or somebody else. Same rules apply – the trouble makers are the ones trying to make something of it that it is not then demanding that everyone else be inconvenienced to accommodate what they want. That simply makes no sense.

charles w

Rock, paper, scissors.

11B-Mailclerk

They wanted to attend a -Christian- event, but were unwilling to forgive (or at least overlook) a trespass against themselves?

Seriously?

Does “…as we forgive those who…” ring a bell?

CA_SGT

Strong Bonds is not a Christain event. In fact, its not religious at all.

11B-Mailclerk

Your mind appears made up that Chaplains have to put Faith aside, to some sort of nonexistent common denominator. My reading of the regs is no, they don’t.

And that Constitution thingie “nor the free exercise thereof” kinda applies to Chaplains, as much as anyone else.

No. We will not define Chaplains down to some sort of silent muddle that just coinincidently resembles left/secular/prog, ( and perhaps also yet somehow excludes application to non-Christian).

I would not insist that Muslim Chaplain serve pork BBQ

CA_SGT

Strong Bonds, the retreat the chaplian was hosting is a NON-RELIGIOUS RETREAT. The chaplain CHOSE to insert his beliefs into a situation where they were not warranted. It is funded by the unit, not the church. He had no place discriminating or denying a soldier equal access to the services becuase he felt their relationship immoral. It is not the Chaplain’s place to make those decisions. He 100% deserves the reprimand.

Dave Hardin

I understand the event was not specifically a Southern Baptist event.

A Muslim Chaplain can not be forced to give a Catholic their last rights…nor should he.

He tried to get the couple into another one of the same retreats at a different date. He also tried to get out of the way.

I will not be forced to pray, neither will I tolerate those around me being forced not to.

This couple, or any other couple, should have no guarantee they can attend a specific date of this kind of event.

CA_SGT

He wasn’t asked to perform another religions service though. He wasn’t asked to perform a wedding or anything with a religious context. He was asked to lead a secular event. A well known secular program, that he knew going into was secular. Chaplain policy says if they can’t participate in an event becuase of religious objections, they are to remove themselves, not,remove the soldiers under their care. To be fair, he did try that, after the fact. But when it was apparent he could not find another chaplain to run said retreat policy dictates he cancel it.

Dave Hardin

I have a major objection to the precedence this kind of thing sets. The couple did not have any “right” denied, they were “inconvenienced” by a person who was exercising his right to religious expression. As I am sure you are all too well aware, Chaplains provide a unique service. Asking a Priest to lead a trip to an abortion clinic is absurd. Putting a military uniform on him does not change that fact. This couple simply wants to be a pain in the ass because they were inconvenienced and denied nothing.

Fyrfighter

So because this one couple got sand in their manginas, every other couple that had signed up should suffer and have the event cancelled? Sorry , but that sounds like a huge load of bullshit, and contrary to pretty much everything else in the military, where the individual sucks it up for the good of the group..

David

Ok, sweetie, if it is 100% secular WHY IS IT CHAPLAIN-LED? Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

OWB

Because chaplains get involved in all sorts of health & welfare kinds of things.

Martinjmpr

If you have two kids fighting over the same toy and they won’t stop, the solution is to simply remove the toy from both of them, that way they have nothing to fight over.

I can’t help but think that regardless of the outcome of this particular case, the real result is going to be that military chaplains are going to have to stop sponsoring/leading such retreats.

After all, the issue here is not that the lesbian couple is not welcome on the Southern Baptist marriage retreat (that is protected under the 1st amendment) but rather that the involvement of the US Army has complicated the matter by putting the chaplain in a position that is untenable: He can either violate Army policy or he can violate his faith.

Remove the Army from the equation and the problem disappears. And I can’t help but think that is the real agenda of the people pushing to punish the chaplain.

Ex-PH2

And why is being a homosexual of either sex more important than religious preference? If his stepping aside wasn’t enough, what was their REAL problem?

I’ve got a great idea: Grow up. Just shut up about how and with what you have sex, because I do not give a flying fart in space about that, or any of your other personal preferences. In fact, I doubt that most people give a damn, either.

And for that matter, who died and made these obnoxious trouts God?

I see this as an attack on religious preferences, since the chaplain was Southern Baptist and the spiteful brats didn’t want to go to the OTHER events.

If that isn’t prejudice personified, what is it?

That would be like requiring me to declare a “recognized” religious order if I say I’m an agnostic, and then penalizing me if I refuse.

Maybe it’s time the military stopped accommodating all these spoiled, spiteful snots and focused on doing its job, which is training for warfare.

OWB

Not caring is no longer acceptable. It is no longer OK to not care who other people sleep with. And private copulation amongst consenting adults isn’t even enough these days. No, no, no – you and I are expected to condone all manner of things that only a few years ago occurred only behind closed doors. Like drug use, alcohol consumption, drunk drivers killing folks every day, addicts popping out drug addicted babies, as well as things far more complicated than hand holding.

Oh, well. All us dinosaurs will die out before long and the youngsters can do their thing wherever they feel like it. Bless their widdle hearts when they start fighting over whose feelings must be accommodated and whose can be ignored.

Ex-PH2

This dinosaur ain’t gonna wander off into the Great Beyond, no matter what those brats think they can do.

5th/77thFA

Well that got the pot stirred up. Good job. Oh & BTW Rock, paper,scissors,lizard,Spock is how Sheldon wouldv’e handled it.

Veritas Omnia Vincit

Maybe because the military decided it’s cheaper to use a chaplain than a civilian subcontractor with marriage counseling experience…trying to save money by shortchanging the troops has never been done before right?

T1B

VOV, the reason for the chaplain being put in charge of this retreat is probably much more benign than that. In the units I was in, chaplains tended to get tasked with a number of “wellness” or “resilience” type events by brigade and battalion commanders because 1) said commanders see them as a staff officer with more free time on their hands than other staff officers, and 2) those commanders don’t want to task other staff officers with non-warfighting training events like gunnery or live fires…”give that to the chaplain.”

The chaplain then does his best to make it happen, but not all are good staff officers because they aren’t trained to do staff work. Thus, they don’t necessarily anticipate a conflict between the event and their faith until damn near execution time.