Former Navy SEAL: Waterboarding, Sleep Deprivation: Just Another Day at the Office
Eli Crane, a former Navy SEAL and entrepreneur, tells of his experiences with “enhanced” interrogation techniques he encountered during Navy training, makes some very valid points on recent Senate Intelligence Committee hearings, and comes to logical conclusions about what torture actually is, and isn’t. For brevity’s sake I’ve only posted a portion of his article, please find it in it’s entirety here:
The recent attacks on the president’s nominee, Gina Haspel, for the top spot in the CIA due to her involvement in the use of enhanced interrogation techniques by our DOD after 9/11 have me confused.
As a member of the U.S. military, I myself had to endure many of these same techniques. For the record, I am far from the only one.
This is a very controversial topic. Many senators, like former prisoner of war Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), stand in opposition to Haspel’s nomination, stating that “Her refusal to acknowledge torture’s immorality is disqualifying.” Democrats like Kamala Harris were very displeased that they could not get Gina Haspel to agree that the enhanced interrogations utilized in the past were immoral and unethical.
Yet many of my fellow veterans of all branches have undergone these “torture” techniques and worse in preparation to deploy into combat zones. This criticism of Haspel by both parties has me asking: If they did this to us and we don’t have a problem with it, why are we so concerned about doing this to terrorists to extract vital intelligence to save lives?
Yes, that is correct: many of the veterans you know as fathers, mothers, husbands, cousins, and family friends have endured waterboarding, sleep deprivation, starvation, and much, much more to prepare them for the very real possibility that we might get captured behind enemy lines. Please understand that this training is very well done and takes place in a controlled environment with all of the necessary safety measures. I will never forget my time in SERE (survival, evasion, resistance, escape) school. Although I am very thankful for the lessons I learned there and believe it is one hundred percent necessary to prepare those of us destined to operate in war zones, I will never volunteer to go back. Quite frankly, it sucked!
AWANEd’s encounters with “enhanced” interrogation techniques mirrored those of Eli’s, with the exception being mine were in Maine’s Rangeley Mountains in March. Along with SERE, I also received an Arctic Survival certificate at the end of the training. Brrrrr….
Category: SERE
Ugh, now I’m remembering being starved and perpetually rained on for a week at JWTC in Okinawa. Damn you, Gina Haspel 🤣
Dems are usually total phonies with their fake outrage. McStain as well. Such a phony his liberal friends gave him his own unique RINO call sign “maverick” for when he did the exact opposite of what he campaigned on.
I am sorry I missed this discussion.
Torture, in any form, doesn’t work, because you cannot be certain of the quality of the intel. People under torture will say whatever they think will get them off the hook.
Well, Yef, it’s like this. Do you know how polygraphs work? Questions with known correct answers are asked before the probing questions are. Similarly, intel extractors do not just take someone’s word for it. Known info is asked about and if Mo-Mo is solid, he will answer correctly. If he is not, the knots are tightened until correct answers are provided.
you’re correct Yef…except it does and it did.
The fact that you think any interrogation in front of experts is simply reducible to to such an oversimplification says a lot about how you view yourself and other people. I seriously hope you’re just trolling.
It amazes me that they’re worried about these walking manure heaps that would sooner kill every one of them than look at them. While I’m all for treating a POW humanely. When we capture garbage like KSM or any of the others we caught, nothing should be announced – every scintilla of intel should be extracted from them by whatever means necessary, and the millisecond they are no longer of any value they should no longer be allowed to deprive the world of oxygen and disposed of so their remains will never be found. Let their butt buddies wonder what happened to them on Man Love Thursdays with Habib. You have to be willing to play rougher than them to beat them, otherwise they see you as weak.
+1
Ditto
According to Jim Mitchell, the guy who designed the waterboarding regimen, they also waterboarded a female CIA staff attorney and a DOJ attorney who demanded to experience the interrogation procedure before they would approve waterboarding as legal and not constituting torture. But don’t tell McStain and the Proglodytes (D’s) in the Senate; they don’t want to hear it.
Great point, rgr769. I was going to mention Dr. Mitchell and his work, if he didn’t come up in the comments. Eli mentions later in his article that among veterans he’s spoken with, who have been exposed to enhanced interrogation, the unanimous opinion is to keep using them when necessary. I couldn’t agree more.
Sleep deprivation? Sissies!
You haven’t sat up for 72 hours straight with a pregnant mare who decides that when she’s going to start pushing, you are part of the wall she’s kicking. And no off-time for naps, either, sport, because when that four-legger hits the straw, mama will take offense at your presence.
Starve? Your hunger pains should stop after 24 hours, so unless your blood sugar drops like a stone, and your liver starts to swell up, you haven’t starved.
Having to listen to you guys whine about ecohippies and gun control freaks is torture enough. No one should have to listen to that.
No, REAL torture is when a raghead wants to rape you and kills your baby right in front of you for refusing him. REAL torture can turn one quiet soul into a zealously angry female determined to find and kill every raghead she can find, so she joins the women’s part of the Kurdish army.
REAL torture is being in a Nazi camp, heavily pregnant and about to deliver, and because that slime whose name I will NOT use wants to find out what happens, decides that YOU are his next subject for ‘shove the baby back up the birth canal’.
Those slugs in Congress need to have a dose of REAL torture, and no compensatory pay for it, either. And not the modestly named ‘waterboarding’, either. Has to be something that will scare the living shit out of them will do. They have NO ides what it really is.
The Germans in the Middle Ages were adept at it. The Japanese were quite good at it, too, in their own labor camps and on the Bataan march.
I respect McCain enormously for not letting the jailers at the Hanoi Hilton get to him, but he’s lost his direction over the past 20 years.
Wow… torture… Well back when I attended SERE, Coronado-70 and pre=deployment ‘survival’ training Ft. Devens-66…Waterboarding hadn’t been conceived of. The preferred method used by the ‘interrogators’ was a common device known as the EE-8 field telephone. Yeah…much fun. The liberal pussies [to paraphrase LTC Peters] wouldn’t last 30 seconds in an enhanced interrogation session. Phuc them.
Nice. As an old commo guy, many a Private was told hey, hold the end of this wire.
Works with a TA-1, too. About the only thing one of those paperweights was good for was introducing the new Corpsman to the sick fucks in the Comm Platoon.
A CV-1548 ring converter does a nice job. Especially when you say “hey LT, hold this wire and press that button.” A scream means your 1200hz ring tone works.
Let’s not forget that old John voted for Brennan in 2013 and his record on torture was the same as Haspels.
I’m beginning to think McStain was a human intel agent for the D-rats-a political secret squirrel for the D-rat party and the Deep State.
Maybe he was a for reelz Manchurian candidate. That would explain much of his post Vietnam behavior.
Maybe 0bama was the lesser evil in 2008 because McVain would have been the proverbial Death By a Thousand Cuts to the GOP? Let’s face it, he never saw a cave-to (*OOPS*, “compromise with”)the D-rats he didn’t like!
Not only that but McStain I believe sold out to the communists in vietnam, too many things that moron said, didn’t make sense,it is my personal opinion that he was not only a RINO, but a turncoat!
If you are going to make a rather infamous charge like that, are you not obligated to provide some sort of evidence?
It is one thing to say someone is a political poopyhead because you disagree.
It is another to accuse military veteran of -treason- just because you don’t like him.
Perhaps you might care to cite some sort of credible evidence? Or are you just a Russian “bot” stirring up shit for your masters?
See? Two can play that game. Not fun now, da Tovarich?
Yep….the bullshit piles high and deep as though nobody is actually paying attention or knows better
I seriously wonder just how much psychological damage McCain suffered at the hands of the North Vietnamese. Having endured actual torture, he should know the difference between that and sleep deprivation or waterboarding.
If even half of what he went through in captivity is true, then I’d be very surprised if he doesn’t have some very serious, albeit well-hidden, issues left over.
All respect due to McCain…However, SERE has had real POWs on staff that support and helped develop the training and have just as much credibility as he does including Mr Hegdahl, the only enlisted man held captive in the Hanoi Hilton.
I suppose what I was getting at is that I question whether or not McCain has been in his right mind in the last 45 years.
I just figured he sold his experience/credibility depending which way the scent of money was wafting
Good point, TOW.
He lost all respect years ago. I will not grieve his death – may he be put out of our misery soon.
SA Doug Hegdahl, now that’s an interesting story.
War History Line
When I went through SERE at San Diego in the late 1970’s Dough Hegdahl was one of the instructors (or a guest presenter, perhaps). Between his story and the stories others that told of their experience, I really felt like a midget among giants.
Also- lasted about 3 seconds on the waterboard! I lasted about 10 minutes into the evasion exercise before capture. What a performance!
GV, you did fine. The deck is so stacked against the SERE student that any victory, however small, is a win. Long after my SERE class I was stationed onboard NAS Brunswick, ME, in off-site housing. My next door neighbor was a SERE instructor. Since I was a grad, over beers and steaks he gave me the background on SERE, the DOD interrogators, psychologists and EMS watching everyone, and what a great job being “The Sergeant Major” at SERE was.
I had a problem Airman in my AW shop then, and a quota came up for a SERE class. Guess who got the billet? I went next door with a six-pack, and asked if Airman Problem could get some “special” attention from the SM. Why yes he could! And yes he did.
Good times.
I heard SERE did away with the water board? Not sure what year but thats what I’ve heard. I went through in 1989 at Warner Springs Training Area and they still had the water board, and some of my SEAL buddies told me they even rescued students of some SERE classes, that would have been a great ending imo. Funny but i was given a little note in my cell by one of my comrades, it read “Escape” I just acted like i didn’t read it, it sure felt like me and one other enlisted Marine where being selected out, not sure why but that class was insane and i learned a lot about myself. I always wondered why everyone is so worried about these enhanced techniques, because if they can use them on our own military, then its good enough for terrorist!
Semper Fi
The subject came up during his presidential campaign but the lefties backed off a bit because he was after all a Democrat.
The more right he would sway the more “crazy vet” they would say.
Hey, that rhymes.
I don’t believe he suffered much, he was a ripe plum, the son of an admiral, they dangled him like a puppet imho!
No, they just dislocated both arms, and then hung from the ceiling. To this day the man can’t even raise his arms to shoulder height.
I have no use for McCain’s antics, but some of the comments I’ve seen here make me ill. It’s the sort of unthinking, unknowing crap I would expect from the kids at DU, not here.
I’ll add here that Jim Hanson made this same point quite a few years ago while recounting his experiences at SERE with Special Forces. The facts have been available for a long time, if you know where to look.
McCain should have left political life years ago. Why is there no 25th Amendment for members of congress?
Because more than 2/3rd of congress would vote themselves out of a job, health care, cushy retirement, and a remarkable ability to become multi-millionaires off a congreeman’s salary. 🙂
There of course is the “convention of states” option to propose amendments. Congress has -zero- say in that process.
Fraught with peril, this path is.
My proposed amendment would mandate an electoral college type system for State executive office (by counties). Breaks the power of large corrupt city machines to subvert whole states.
California, Illinois, New York, and Pennsylvania are -radically- different under such a system.
*cough*Maryland*cough*
Here in Maine we now have unconstitutional “ranked chioce” voting being pushed by liberals.
Instead of a “majority” of the votes to win it will now be a “plurality”.
The referendum process has gone wild here and the legislative is dead.
When does someone point out that the US Constitution guarantees a Republic form of government? Article IV section 4 is quite specific.
Of course, no one has really tested those waters in 200 years. Quick online search shows a whole bunch of libs assuring that “direct democratic”/“direct voting” is what was meant. Keep in mind that many of the founders used “democrat” as an epithet.
The Fouders would be -appalled- by such non-republic things. They went to great lengths to prevent “mob rule” in the Federal system, which is why -only- representatives were directly elected (pre 17th amendment.
They -knew- that direct votes tended to run countries off cliffs. The whole US system was meant to grind slowly, and prevent temporary majorities from screwing it all up.
So, at some point, we need to start -enforcing- Article IV section 4, or the whole of the Contitution will become moot.
Remembering the people jumping to their deaths from the upper floors of the WTC Towers as well as those murdered my muslim terrorists that day makes me NOT give even the tiniest of shits about the comfort, heath and welfare of the ones we capture, so FUCK the lefties.
It AIN’T waterboarding if you use diesel fuel!
What Democrats call torture, most submariners (or surface nukes) call ORSE workup.
Two words about starvation, sleep deprivation, and all the rest. Ranger School. Their version of waterboarding back in the day was 25 push ups in the creek. As an OC at the NTC I did 96 hours straight one time (along with my Sp4 track driver) when I had a less than stellar company commander. Glad we had lots of coffee. Needless to say, I am less than impressed with the Senate Committee, who obviously have never been anywhere or done anything outside Sodom on the Potomac. Or probably never eaten an MRE (1st version).
Would it not be -spectacular- to bring a bunch of decorated SERE graduates to Congress, all asking
“Why the f### are you not concerned with this stuff being done to -us- in training? So get your heads out of your fundaments and STFU.”
I liked most of the first-gen MREs. The freeze dried strawberries were a favorite.
But it doesn’t bother dumocrap morons that millions of babies are being literally torn apart and pieces sold on the baby market! but shyt! lets not discomfort the terrorist baby killers, woman killers and killers of the innocent!!
I originally meant it as snark (above), but maybe you -are- a Russian shit-stirring bot.
Nah. Russian bots are more real-sounding. You are JV code at best.
I doubt they made you stand in a stress position for years in SERE. You know in SERE that it’s going to end, those terrorist don’t know when their torture is going to end.
That’s all very true. BUT I will tell you that what was taught at USAF SERE in 1974 was unpleasant. Yes, we knew we wouldn’t be killed and would get out and go to our follow-on schools; still, it is something I would not go through again — and we weren’t waterboarded (though others told us that in the SF SERE course, attendees were “near-drowned”).
I’d go through Ranger School again before going through SERE a second time.
The final POW formation held by the “People’s Democrtic Republic” is seared into my heart — you guys who attended know what I’m talking about.
I hear you IDC/SARC, Mr. Sharkman, and others!! I hear youlaughing at USAF SERE school.
(^___^)
And m0311, your SERE class was, what?
For the Facebook ghosts at the top of the link, I have no idea what the criteria for the Arctic Survival cert was at the time. All I know is we ditched our clothing and were issued thermal long johns, insulated bib overalls, a wool sweater, an Air Force Arctic Parka (which I may or may not still have *cough*), thermal socks, boots, gloves, and watch cap. I think the snow shoes sealed the deal and they certainly got my attention.
Snow shoes, WTF?
No one is asking the obvious question. I’m surprised at you.
Since the ragheads have never signed or been signatories to the Geneva Convention, why is it okay for them to incinerate people, stone them to death, behead them, throw them out of 11th story windows, etc., etc., etc, but complain when they get a bucket of water thrown at them?
When you get an answer to that – one that makes sense – let me know.
Like I say, IT AIN’T Waterboarding if you use diesel fuel!
*crickets*
SERE – FEB ’91, Rangeley, ME. First morning on the mountain -15 deg. below zero. Nothing got better from then on until it was all over.
***
Re: Proud – +1
People around here sometimes mention the so called Navy Survival School somewhere in southern Maine but rather as comment regarding
how brutal the local conditions are at the time. We just don’t understand why they would put such a school down there and not up here where the students would learn a much more valuable lesson. “Vacationland” indeed.
I’ve been to SERE school in Brunswick in March of ’96. I disagree with the view in the linked article and if you hadn’t been in McCain’s position just say nothing.