Army needs a Scout helicopter
The Drive reports that the Army needs an Armed Scout Helicopter now that they’ve dumped about 340 OH-58D Kiowa Warriors before finding a suitable replacement.
Now, just months after the final Kiowa Warriors were officially retired, the US Army is whining about how badly they need…an armed scout helicopter.
Under the same aviation plan, the OH-58D was partially “replaced” by far more complex and expensive AH-64E Apache Guardian helicopters and drones, with the hopes that the Apache-drone teaming would work like a charm. Well the concept is still floundering, and clearly it cannot replace the efficiency or capability that the Kiowa Warrior provided. Not just that, but the plan also has seen entry-level Army helicopter pilots being taught to fly on $5 million twin turbine medium utility helicopters—the equivalent of running a drivers ed classes in a brand new Lexus SUV.
I don’t know how this could have happened. The Army Secretary was gay and everything, so we know how qualified he was to run the Army aviation program.
This same thing could have happened to the A-10 program, except for that aircraft’s constituency defending the continuation of the air frame. I guess the Kiowa didn’t have that many fans.
During this year’s Army Aviation Association of America convention, Army aviation officials stressed that the biggest gap in capability they have is the one left by the Kiowa Warrior’s quick retirement, and that they are seeking to fill that gap as a top priority.
I guess that’s what happens when a Presidential appointee’s only qualification for the job is his sexual deviancy.
Thanks to Bobo for the link.
Category: Army News
Doh.
No shit. Double Doh!
A question. Did the Army destroy all of the OH-58D’s, or could they bring some out of retirement, until, you know, they find a replacement?
Never mind, Sapper answered that question.
In the 80’s they had us strip all the comm gear off our beloved M151A2’s and sent them all to depot in Barstow. They replaced them with the Hummer. Then someone found out that the Hummer would not fit in the CH46. A bunch of our little M151’s came back to us to get crap bolted back on so we could remain combat ready. Bet the guy who created all that extra work and cost put on another star.
AS WELL AS a nice cushy job with a Defense Contractor.
I watched a horrible video from the Army’s scrap yard were the Kiowa’s were being destroyed for scrap metal as fast as possible. These birds were just junked when they could have been sold or even given away. Now we have to pay for some brand new ones.
I guess that answers the question I was going to ask about un-retiring existing airframes.
Because Congressman Dickhead does not want the Army going back on its promise to buy crap from his voters.
The problem is, Congressman Dickhead’s “voters” aren’t the ones he’s really worried about as much as his “paycheck writers” (lobbyists) that tell him how to vote.
^^^^TRUTH^^^^
Its funny how fast they move on certain things to prevent a ‘change to policy’s’ potential for happening.
My unit was moved out of our Reserve Center before our new location was even ready (no furniture, no networking, no phone system, limited supply and sanitation facilities, etc.) and told us “we need you to move out because as soon as you leave this property will be going up for real property exchange. Construction will be happening immediately!”
So we rushed to move out of that facility even though we were screwed and non-mission capable in our new facility. 5 years later (Yes, really 5 years) that Reserve Center is still standing there and still has not had 1 “construction” or “demolishing” item done to it yet. The worst part is, they fixed all the windows and the broken doors we had work orders in to fix, for a year, before we moved out.
A year after we moved out I asked if we could move elements back into it and was told to shut up and don’t bring it up again.
I remember when the 58D was just being brought in service and it wasn’t that long ago! Why did the Army get rid of an obviously successful program after such a short time?
Was there something about the 58D that made it extraordinarily difficult to maintain or operate? Seeing as how it is a modification of a commercially available helicopter (the Bell Jet Ranger) I don’t see how it could be excessively costly to run, and the Army spent millions on the technology to make it into an attack/scout bird.
I knew they had been taken off active service but I didn’t realize they were actually cutting them up – wouldn’t it make more sense to “mothball” them so they can be used again if needed?
When you consider that there are Vietnam-war era Chinooks and C-130’s still in service somewhere it seems very strange to see a successful aircraft “retired” after such a relatively short service life.
Hell, the newest B-52 rolled off of Boeing’s line in 1962. The M4/M16/AR-15 design is pushing 60 years old. Hueys will never go away. “Old” and “obsolete” are two different things.
Even better… the M2 dates to 1918. Almost 100 years of .50 BMG.
They say the last American M2 gunner hasn’t been born yet.
I used to see the 58D’s flying around Bragg more often than any other air frame. When we did training they actually used to do things like follow us and track on us as part of their training, especially when we were mounted. We never even spoke about doing that kind of thing, they just did it and it was cool with us.
Did we have any Kiowas in Afghanistan? I don’t recall seeing any in RC-East, just Apaches and Blackhawks.
I actually remembered that we did, we just didn’t see them very often. We actually had a pair respond to a mortar attack and they plastered those guys all over a Qalat which helped stop mortar/rocket attacks on our FOB for a month.
Another brilliant bureaucratic bungle.
If we could only exact some accountability from these idiots this would be reduced dramatically.
They were more concerned about Gender Equality than force readiness. I can Hear the meeting now:
“How many Helicopters does the Army have”?
“5 Mr Secretary”
“WHAT? WHY Do they need that many?”
“For different missions Mr. Secretary”
“Well, get rid of one, then we can reroute the budget money to something more important!”
“Yes, Mr. Secretary”
My favorite memory of the Kiowas was loading them on a C-5 tail to nose side by side and nose to tail. It was a pisser.
My favorite memory of the KW was directing a flight onto an insurgent site that was rocketing us at Taji. It’s a great airframe, near perfect for the mission it was given. I know a few KW pilots who received the Purple Heart because the took fire while flying so low in support of troops in contact.
Dumbfukkery never surprises me any more.
THAT’S the Army that I know and love…….
One can always count on Dumbfuckery….
Nothing new. The acronyms FUBAR and SNAFU date to World War II if not before.
Remember JANFU, SANFU and SAMFUTU? My Dad (WWII) taught me them.
NEVER underestimate the US Government’s capability of dumbfuckery…
I don’t get it. What part of Light Observation Helicopter was the Army unable to understand?
Once upon a time, I spent quite a few hours flying on OH-58s. This was both in RVN, and later at Ft. Hood with the 1st Cav. It was a very useful aircraft. Although its primary mission would probably have been considered to be pairing with an AH-1 Cobra to make up a “pink” team, there were lots of utility roles it filled that made more sense with it than using a UH-1 Huey.
Dumping the OH-58 without a replacement sounds like the result of somebody missing the memo about trying to fix something when it’s not broken. In this case the OH-58s were tarted up with weapons and gee-whiz tech gear until they weren’t really a loach anymore.
Actually, I think they were better. I had the honor of working them in Iraq. It was a great airframe for the mission it was given. We used them mostly for FOB defense and close support of troops in the cities. KW pilots were not afraid to fly into places and situations that AH-64 pilots couldn’t or wouldn’t fly into.
The only thing I can think of is that maybe the “attack” version of the OH-58 was a sort of stop-gap measure until they could get enough AH-64’s into service.
That actually makes sense. Putting weapons on an OH-58 seems sort of like trying to turn a Ford Crown Vic into an attack vehicle by covering it with weapons, Mad Max style. Under the skin, the OH-58 was still a very light observation helicopter, not an armored brute like the AH-64.
But why they didn’t just pull the weapons off and return it to its duties as a scout helicopter and spotter for precision weapons seemed like an odd choice.
Unless of course the real reason the 58 was axed was because the Army aviation units had been drawn down so far that there weren’t enough pilots to fly them.
I’m going to go with this moreso than anything else.
The same reason why Army Recruiters are now BEGGING people who have ETS’d in the last 3 years to sign back up again for at least a 2-year contract.
We are no longer in the “reduce the military so we can pay for everything else in the country I want to pay for!” administration. Now the Army is trying to correct that bullshit.
The first time I ever saw a KW was during a convoy escort in Iraq, maybe a decade ago. I thought I was badass in the turret with my .50, until I saw those birds and my penis shrank by three inches. Since, I’ve always wanted to ride in one… today is a sad day.
Just was a “back seater” in UH-1Vs and UH-60 Dustoff birds, but for the life of me, I’ve never understood why the US Army never bought the OH-6 airframe en masse for the scout role. But that’s the Army. Case in point the AH-56 Cheyenne, IMHO the most badass attack chopper that ever flew, years ahead of it’s time. but guess what?…the politicians got in the way. Pour yourself another cup of coffee and indulge…
Oh come on. Politicians have never ruined or screwed up anything in the military….
All you need is one failed demo in front of the BigWigs and that will scrap almost any program.
The original design would have made a great racing helo, but it was clear that, as the narrator said, it was only good for speed.
The failed missile firing demo later on in front of a crowd of military and political people is what killed the program.
It was the Cheyenne that convinced me to go to flight school after it made a visit to Fort Silly in 1969. I had a factory model of that bird sitting behind my desk in 1973 and for the life of me I can’t figure out why it did not go home with me.
They still fly the real Loach, the OH-6 except it is configured as the “Little Bird” (and they are talking about replacing it as well) Never flew the OH-6 but new guys who did including one who rolled it up in a ball and all that was left was the airframe and him hanging upside down still strapped in.
Dustoff, the OH-6 apparently won the original Army contract in the early ’60s, but it was based on an unrealistic low bid. When Hughes ran into production problems a couple of years later, the Army re-opened the contract which allowed Bell to offer the OH-58 at a lower price. The Army was apparently willing to continue to buy the OH-6, but in much reduced volume.
Which furthers my belief that IT IS NOT who offers the best product to the US Military that gets the Production Contract, it’s who offers the best bribes (*OOPS*, campaign contributions) to the right politicians as well as greasing the palms of the right bureaucrats.
Am I the only person who noticed that the Cheyenee’s snout remarkably resembles the A-10’s nose configuration?
In the public sector there are way to manipulate compensation structure so senior executive have skin in the game for long term strategic decisions (oh…..that’s kinda their job, BTW); unfortunately, we don’t have that structure in government and specifically the military. Yet, we keep wondering why we get long term pain from short term decisions.
Perhaps, all GO’s should only retire at the rank of COL, then are elevated on the retired list over a period of years? If a decision they made is later found to be wanting, no more promotions.
Wasn’t there a link to some footage here a few weeks ago showing a pair of them double teaming an enemy position?
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