Veterans 2nd Amendment Protection Act explained to the illiterate
Chief Tango sent us a link to an opinion piece written by Lindsey Donovan who claims to be an Army veteran married to an active-duty soldier. She is a volunteer leader for the Georgia chapter of Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America, part of Everytown for Gun Safety which probably explains why her opinion is ill-informed and borders on illiteracy.
Donovan’s opinion piece is entitled “Disgraceful gun bill endangers veterans: Army vet” – she’s talking about the Veterans 2nd Amendment Protection Act which is supposed to end the practice of letting bureaucrats make decisions about whether or not veterans can own weapons.
My own experience is what fuels me to speak out and urge our lawmakers to take a stand against this very dangerous bill. Shortly after my husband’s last deployment, a soldier who served in his unit died by suicide with a gun. It happened a few days after we saw that soldier. The shock I felt was indescribable. And the pain and sorrow I felt for those left behind, I hope to never feel again. To this day I still think about that individual. I don’t so much concentrate on the why, but the how. It was the gun, a deadly means to a tragic end.
In basic training, I was assigned a “battle buddy.” We were each other’s keeper; we had a duty to one another, a bond cemented by a shared experience. I look at my fellow veterans in the same terms, staying true to the Warrior Ethos of “I will always place the mission first, I will never accept defeat, I will never quit and I will never leave a fallen comrade.” Granting access to firearms to veterans who have been deemed mentally incompetent by the Department of Veterans Affairs is not looking out for the men and women who so courageously served our country. It is a disgrace, and it is far from patriotic.
So I would ask Lindsey if the soldier who killed himself had been determined to be mentally ill. Had he been forbidden by the Army to own a weapon or to be issued a government weapon to perform his duties? Without answers to these questions, her paragraph is just emotional knee-jerk reaction to a bad situation.
The VA is not your battle buddy. You aren’t my battle buddy. Unfortunately for all of you meddling gun grabbers there’s a Constitution, the 5th Amendment of which states “No person shall be…deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law”, it doesn’t say that a functionary of the VA can take your property, but rather due process of law.
The bill, HR 1181, states “This bill prohibits, in any case arising out of the administration of laws and benefits by the Department of Veterans Affairs, any person who is mentally incapacitated, deemed mentally incompetent, or experiencing an extended loss of consciousness from being considered adjudicated as a mental defective for purposes of the right to receive or transport firearms without the order or finding of a judicial authority of competent jurisdiction that such person is a danger to himself or herself or others.”
Notice that it doesn’t say that every veteran will be armed regardless of their mental capacity. It says that a judge will decide instead of disarming veterans willy-nilly without the benefit of due process. Apparently, Lindsey doesn’t think that veterans have Fifth Amendment rights under the Constitution that they’ve spent their lives defending.
Category: Gun Grabbing Fascists
She has been drinking the kool aid and waiting for the unicorns to reappear.
Never hunted unicorn. Bet it wouldn’t take much of a load seeing as they are so thin skinned and stupid.
Probably taste like shit anyway.
Caribou is pretty rank.
Caribou isn’t rank! Blasphemer! Heretic!
And yeah, she’s an idiot…
Actually it is a very nice town.
She didn’t care why? But was concerned with “how”? What the hell does that have to do with ANYTHING/ My brother in law jumped off a 400 ft bridge, damned bridges, we need 2nd amendment against those dangerous bridges!!
I have been a poster here for a long time now, does anyone know why my posts are still moderated? Did I call the wrong asshole, an asshole or something?
The VA is the equivalent of your “battle buddy”??? This bitch is certifiably insane…
If you looked left, then right and you saw the VA was your BB, you are fucked.
+1
The VA is your BB in that they are affixed firmly to your six
That’s a different interpretation of “BB” – Butt Buddy.
“Shortly after my husband’s last deployment, a soldier who served in his unit died by suicide with a gun.” As opposed to committing suicide and not dying, I guess. Regarding that suicide, she says, “I don’t so much concentrate on the why, but the how.” Well, that’s about the most worthless aspect of a suicide I can conjure. There are countless means to commit oneself. Can’t get a handgun? Buy a shotgun. Don’t have the money for that? There are cliffs, bridges, and tall buildings everywhere. The point is that asking why, not how, is THE question to ask. It’s the only one that might help to prevent someone else from doing the same thing.
GMTA. I was going to ask why she didn’t care why her friend killed himself.
She wasn’t there for him -before- he became a political tool for her, right?
I think I might try to set up a small charitable fund via my Will, so that if after I am dead and someone uses me for political numb-skullery, a person is paid to stalk said numbskull and when cameras are present, bitch slap the asshole on camera and say “(11B-Mailclerk) sends his regards!”.
-This- former Mailclerk always delivers…
She gives less than a shit about the “why” of his suicide. And if he had used any other method besides a gun, she wouldn’t give a shit about the “how” either. Just another grave-dancing, poo-flinging SJW howler monkey (thank you again, Nicki!)
Amen to “why” being the question to ask.
That “died by suicide” phrase is some PC word gaming that I’ve seen lately…apparently “committed suicide” sounds bad/judgmental/intentional to some people.
No matter what you call it, it is very sad and all too common.
Here we go with yet another crusading do-gooder busybody who wants to save everyone from themselves with group hugs, Kool-Aid, unicorn farts and pixie dust, fuck her.
I think in her heart, she means well.
That’s about the nicest thing I can come up with regarding blanket policies that seek the authority to take away anyone’s rights.
Emotional responses to tragedies are almost always the wrong responses.
This is true. Humans are inherently biased and making policy based on someone involved in an emotionally charged event often makes logical discussion all the more difficult.
Why we have to work to maintain emotional detachment when responding to an emergency.
“Walk, don’t run, to the victim(s).”
“Combat breathing.”
It also explains the warped sense of humor EMS has.
Yep! And it develops early, too.
What about EMS posers, like The Liar of Lenoir, William Derek Church? (just feeding the Google monster)
Their emotions are located in their crotches.
Our public schools (and most of the private ones, as well) have indoctrinated children for decades to “think” with their emotions instead of with logic. (Even my husband does it–drives me to distraction sometimes.) That’s why advertisers and politicians are so successful. Logical fallacies are their tools of the trade: appeal to emotion, appeal to illegitimate authority, appeal to the majority, ad nauseum. I love watching my kids pick apart commercials and political speeches, making a game of how many (or how many different) fallacies they can identify.
Nothing new under the sun.
Aristotle and, if I remember correctly, Plato each had a deep disdain for the Sophist school(s) of philosophy. Sophists became some of the early “shady lawyer” types, as they could easily defend a person before the courts using their fallacious argument styles.
I think, in her heart, she means (we will damn) well (obey).
Fixed it for you.
Bless her heart.
“And the veteran suicide rate is more than 20% higher than for civilian Americans.” Um, Lundsey/Linseed/Whatever, Veterans are civilians. One other thing, lady. The more you talk up your service and values, the less credibility you have among Veterans. Those who did, did. Those who didn’t talk a lot of shit. You talk a lot of shit.
Maybe an FOIA is in order?
If someone can pass the required info regarding the “fine lady” in question to Jonn, I’ll be glad to file one.
Does someone here have access to AKO? I’m not finding much on a Google search other than the article above or references to “Moms Demand Action”.
I do…but if she’s out, what are you looking for?
Enough to file a FOIA. Hondo knows better than I what’s needed.
Here it is:
http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=39455
I didn’t see the name anywhere on AKO or Global Outlook
Enterprise keeps kicking me out…a coworker says it’s doing the same to him.
Don’t remind her about the 5th Amendment and that whole due process thingy.
Just bust her and throw her into a jail cell over nothing. Wait for her to start the squawk.
Cheap Whore! Using a veteran’s suicide as her caring heartfelt sob story to hide her real motive. Self righteous bitch.
I think you’re dead on about that. I don’t think she cared about the guy as much as it was a convenient vehicle to push her agenda. If she did actually care about the veteran the why would be the most important part of the whole situation.
Exactly! That’s exactly what jumped out at me when I read her drivel. She doesn’t give a fuck, and that’s ok if that’s her position, but dont fucking insult the rest of us who may have seen suicide and its effects up close and actually CARE!
I wonder if she would’ve been as concerned if they guy would’ve hung himself instead of using a gun. If the how is the important part, then using a different technique may be less upsetting to her.
Ha! Well said. I had a dear cousin who I looked up to who did exactly that in our grandpas back yard when I was pretty young. I’m over it – but this bitch really makes me want to cunt punch her really hard!
One shot one kill.
You got her center mass.
This is what’s really going on here.
So, Ms. Lindsey thinks it’s OK for some nameless VA bureaucrat – without due process of law – to negate one of a veteran’s fundamental Constitutional rights with the stroke of a pen. Hmm.
Then I guess she’d be OK with that same faceless VA bureaucrat ordering her to never publish another book or article, give a public speech, or post anything on social media, without first getting their approval. Because just like the freedom of speech guaranteed by the 1st Amendment, the right to keep and bear arms guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment is a fundamental Constitutional right.
Right, Lindsey?
+1,000
They do not agree that they are trespassing on rights. To them, no one has a right to weapons, it is a rare and exclusive privilege subject to any number of vetoes.
You have -no- right to oppose their good intentions. No mater what it may coast -you-, it is “for the good of society”.
Those pesky guns give you the impression you have the right and ability to say “no” to rule by your betters.
—
Those of us who do see this as a matter of Rights often fail to understand them, because we simply do not see things as they do. They see no problem with the whip as social control. It is just a mater of who holds it, and their good intentions. And they mean to wield it “for the good of society”. You are free to Obey.
What a bunch of cold hearted fuckers.
I love you guys!!!
When it comes to defending our Birthright of Liberty, I have grown a heart of Glacier. I morn the loss of the warmhearted carefree youth. But I welcome the steadfast adult who simply will not be diverted from that lofty goal of Liberty. If I Am cold-hearted, my opponents and necessity have made me so.
Due to the shit-baggery of the Tranzis, the hearts of many are cooling down to Cryogenic levels.
You will find on this forum many who love Liberty more than Life itself, and who will -act- on that if pushed beyond civil limits. Those who want otherwise should ponder carefully what pushing those limits will unleash.
Live and let live is a two way street. I advise the opposition to stay in their lane.
Rule of thumb. If an organization has one of the following words in it’s name it is a bunch of whackos. The list includes. Moms,mothers,dads,fathers,sensible. I’m sure youse guys can add to this list.
environmental, green, ethical, protection, children
All true. A corollary to this is the title of an Act of Congress. If it sounds appealing or helpful, we’re screwed.
And especially “common sense”.
By the way, that flap on United about the girls who were wearing leggings and told to cover up? That whole deal was started by the woman who started Moms Demand Steps on Guns (or something similar) – apparently these busybodies want to tell everyone how they should act. Hence “Gun control isn’t about guns, it’s about CONTROL”
Bingo!
It is never about the ‘thing’.
It is always about CONTROL.
Just ask Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Robespierre, etc., etc., etc.
Fuck off Lindsey…
Hard to improve on that. Succinct and to the point.
There are a couple of items that this idiot is conveniently overlooking.
First, members of the military do not give up the rights afforded all Americans simply because they enlist. We certainly voluntarily agreed to temporarily alter, somewhat, the expression of those rights but they are never suspended entirely. Once separated from the military, all rights are restored to exactly those afforded every other civilian.
The terms we agreed to upon enlistment were voluntary. No one forced us to alter how we exercised our free speech – we agreed to it, mostly knowingly. Forcibly depriving someone of a right without due process is so repugnant that any American should be incensed that it is currently being done. That it is being done to veterans only intensifies what should be an automatic no-go response by any sane American.
She wants to focus on the “how?” Fine. Do tell us, please, what difference the instrument makes in the commission of suicide. Your attention to that detail only serves to allow you to continue to avoid the real issue which is that there are a bazillion or so other methods available should she be successful in eliminating firearms as the instrument of death for veteran suicides. Or maybe she intends to also go after automobiles, balconies, household cleaners, paring knives, and all the other means Americans have used to off themselves. Maybe she would be content if no American could do anything but sit quietly in a corner with no availability of any thing which could be misused to cause harm to self. Like crayons.
But, as others have already opined, she most likely is just seizing this opportunity to push her lefty agenda.
Dear Lindsey: the actual facts are stubborn things.
The DoD investigates every single suicide in all the military branches (Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force, all of the Reserves and National Guard). Because there are so few, the DoD can afford to do this; there are roughly an average of 250 suicides per year for all those service branches. That’s an average of 0.67 suicides per day. Of those suicides, roughly 40% are due to failed relationships and another 30% are due to drugs. Ms Lindsey, those are the “whys”. The weapon of suicide is a matter of choice or convenience. 40% due to failed relationships! By your logic, we should ban all relationships.
Perhaps you really, really care about veterans. In the 18 – 55 age veteran groups, the rates of suicide are below the rates for their non-veteran peers. The reasons, the “whys”, for suicides in these age groups parallel the military suicides. It is in the over 55 veteran age groups where 17 of the 22 (supposed) suicides per day occur. Care to guess why a person in these age groups might contemplate suicide? To get you started on your guesses, consider these things: 1) over 55, gee that’s Vietnam vets; 2) Nam vets were treated with disrespect upon coming home and that has eaten at them for 40 years; 3) infirmities are setting in; and if you even have two brain cells ( I wonder) you can come up with a lot more reasons.
Fuck off bitch, you have no clue about reality.
QED
ex-OS2:
Clueless libtard Sparkle Pony in the open.
Bring it, please.
Cleared hot.
Bitch.
WHAM!!!
All the great comments here should be shared on USAToday to rebut her article.
Put the bitch on blast and maybe she’ll give up writing stupid shit.
People like Lindsey are a huge part of the problem in my opinion. I’ve had the displeasure of a co-worker losing a nephew, a former Commander, and a childhood friend that was also my 1SG all commit suicide by gun. The method was of zero importance to me – the concern I had was why, and what went so wrong in their lives that they felt this was the only answer available to them, and was there something I could have done to have helped any of them. Her statement of “I don’t so much concentrate on the why, but the how. It was the gun, a deadly means to a tragic end” means to me that she cares zero about the individual themselves or what can be done to help those in situations that lead to this tragic decision. She wants attention – she’s got it from this group. She can go pound sand.
How far could she have possibly made it in the military if she’s quoting basic training concepts. Unless I’m missing something the object of the ‘battle buddy’ was to punish somebody else for a minor screwup. Meaning that if your ‘battle buddy’ lost his right to a gun, you’d lose yours too–or more likely the ‘battle buddy’ would be the only one punished.
Hey LINDSEY DONOVAN, YOU BIMBO!!! Yeah, YOU!
No one is forcing you to own or even look at a gun. If you’re this desperate for attention, get some professional help with your desperation need, willya? You are a TIRESOME, SELF-CENTERED, BORING LITTLE TWATWAFFLE, and A SERIOUS ARGUMENT IN FAVOR OF BIRTH CONTROL.
I don’t so much concentrate on the why, but the how. It was the gun, a deadly means to a tragic end.
And that’s where the massive fail begins. The why is everything in suicide, those who decide it’s time to go use the most efficient means at their disposal it’s true which is often a firearm, but when we review suicide statistics from around the globe we can see that even in nations like Japan where firearms are almost non-existent the suicide rate is nearly double the USA….how can that be if the how were the only consideration? Because clearly the how is meaningless. The why is, sadly, the crux of the biscuit as it were. People will use pills, hanging, car exhaust, and other forms of poisoning if firearms aren’t available.
This is a mental health crisis not a firearms crisis. Until we determine how we intend to adjudicate determinations of mental health competency and firearms possession we will have to address the why of suicide with individuals we know and accept that we will fail and some will die regardless of access to firearms. Some people are so broken they can’t be fixed. While that is tragic it’s not necessarily the reason to mandate untrained bureaucrats as the definitive force behind mental health issues.
Just my $0.02….probably not worth that if we’re being honest.
You have to remember, VoV, that human actions are solely due to objects – that’s why evil guns cause suicides and massacres. It’s never to do with the actions of the user.
Bingo, VOV (and others). When someone decides to off themselves, they will use whatever means is available. In fact, a study published by (of all places) Harvard documented exactly that several years ago:
http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=37307
“More guns equals more suicides” is and always has been a lie. If a gun isn’t readily available, those who are suicidal will simply use something else.
The problem isn’t guns. The problem is people – and, possibly, the society in which they live.
Occasionally when I see the wizard at the VA I have to fill out the screening form for mental health. One of the questions is ” Do you have a firearm” I always either cross it out or write in “None of your fucking business”
This usually raises an eyebrow. I then tell the wizard that with the medication they give me every month I could kill a herd of Elephants, so they need to rethink about who gives who the means to do self-harm.
You are likely better off just refusing to fill it out at all.
If we get rid of all the guns there will be no more gun suicides. Works perfectly in South Korea. No more private possession of firearms.
Of course the ROK has the 2nd highest suicide rate in the world so there are a few bugs in the system that need worked out. But gun suicides are way down.
Some who commit suicide OD on medication, is there a call to ban that?
Some commit suicide by hanging themselves, are we supposed to ban ropes, extension cords and belts?
Some commit suicide by slashing themselves, are we supposed to ban sharp blades?
Some commit suicide by jumping, do we pass laws requiring everyplace to have guard rails?…
I see her rant as little more than a thinly veiled gun grab.