Too good not to be a stand alone post
The following is a comment left in the other Gitmo thread by Maydayog. PLEASE READ IT.
I was in GTMO from April through December 2002, deployed as part of an MP Bde’s HHC. I cannot speak to Mr. Ahrendt’s experiences, but I did have experience in two of the areas that he speaks about– that is, shaving detainees heads and the proper use of OC.
The shaving of detainee’s heads was a detail given out to lower-ranking enlisted soldiers, although there were a few higher-ranking NCOs who felt it was their duty to join their men. Strict instructions were given to ALL soldiers participating in the detail that this was not an opportunity to screw around, nor was it an opportunity to explore the concept of justice through humiliation. All detainees requesting a hair cut would be escorted individually into the exercise yard and placed in a simple metal folding chair. The detainee was given three choices– short, really short and extremely short. Again, it is important to note that all detainees who participated REQUESTED to have their hair cut.
The detainee’s beards were NEVER touched. That was made clear to enlisted soldiers in multiple ways and with multiple graphic demonstrations of what would happen if their beard were cut. Soldiers went out of their way to approach detainees on exactly where on the side of the detainee’s head they would prefer the clipping begin. I never saw any soldier treat a detainee in any way other than detached but respectful. While soldiers acknowledged that for the most part the detainees were unsavory characters, the soldiers had a job to do and they did it professionally.
Again, I was in GTMO in 2002, including the one year anniversary of the attacks– we not that far removed from the anger we all felt on that day. In fact, one of my commanding officers was a NYPD Officer on scene during the crash of the twin towers. HOWEVER, I did not witness a single case of inappropriate conduct, whether it was during the detail to shave detainee’s heads or my other visits to the cell blocks. Odd how my experience, so fresh off of 9/11 and at a time when you would expect soldiers to be most emotional about the attacks, so drastically conflicts with a soldier who was their two years after me.
The other area that I can speak to is the practice of acclimating soldiers working in the detention blocks to OC. Every soldier who was to spend time in any of the detention units was required to partake in training provided by my unit. We had three lead instructors– two of them police officers in real life and one a former FAST Marine. Despite their wealth of experience with OC, our unit required these lead instructors to attend instructor’s training prior to providing training to the soldiers in GTMO.
In addition, prior to the commencement of training I was required to be certified to be an assistant instructor (basically I held some foam pads– the lead instructors performed the bulk of the instruction). Part of this certification required me to be sprayed with OC. It certainly hurt, but I was fine within 15 minutes of being sprayed and running through the course. Mr. Ahrendt would have to be an extremely weak individual if he were affected by the spray for more than an hour. The concept that it takes multiple days to recover from the experience is pure hyperbole.
Any way, those are my experiences. I sometimes consider forming a Guantanamo Veterans of America group that focuses on fighting the outright lies and falsehoods that we, as a group, are accused of. I served with some of the finest Officers and NCOs I’ve ever seen. I was a tiny cog in a large wheel but I still feel a sense of pride that I stepped forward and served my country when called upon. That those with nothing more than political grudges or a petty need for attention would unapologetically denigrate my service frustrates me to this day.
Maydayog
Category: Politics
awesome post maydagog. thanks so much for your service.
maydagog,
Let me know when you want to form that group; I was there in 2005 and feel the same.
Everyone harps on what’s alledgedly done to the detainees, but the story of the abuse the guards get at their hands is never discussed.
TSO Wrote: Coby, you mean something like this:
Maydayog,
thanks for your comment and thanks for your service.
TSO,
Exactly.
But America’s not ready to hear that, because then it might cause people to think “hey, there’s some really bad guys down there.”
But since we’re “torturing” the detainees, those actions are written off…because if you keep someone in a “cage” for 5 years, how would you expect them to act?
It’s all BS.
TSO:
Best damned post in a long while! Maydayog- THANK YOU for your service! And a greater thanks for assisting in bring the true facts to the sheeple. I hope that your comment/post above bring many more of you out of the woodwork to combat the continuous lies of the Jesse MacFakes and such. America appreciates you more than you know.
nuf sed
Thanks you all for your service to our great country. I wish there was a way we could charge the people putting these lies out.
Thank you for your service, God bless you.
It’s amazing isn’t it? The world’s left is exercised over a few detainees who are treated quite well, while true torturers get a free pass from the same grievance mongers. It’s not about justice, but about destroying America. It’s the world’s left that hates America, not the world itself.
The democrats have a victim attitude that won’t go away. Since they can’t ‘help’ the terrorists enough (or haven’t yet) to bring on another 9-11 they will whine about everything so they can feel like victims.
The military has been, and is, doing good work at Gitmo.
When, not if, B Hussein O releases the terrorists within the lower 48, or is it his 57 states, maybe enough democrats will lose family members to wake them up. Now don’t get your hopes up, I said maybe. Since the democrat voting block (welfare riders) live in large cities in a tight group they will be the prime targets. One suicide bomber with the right stuff can kill hundreds.
To all,
I’m always a little embarrassed when thanked for my service– it was beyond a doubt my privilege and an honor to serve in the US Army. Thank you for the warm welcome and for maintaining an open mind about what is being said and who is saying it. Your support means more than you know.
TSO, thank you for providing a forum for the other side of the story. Coby, maybe it is time we and others like us stood up. I’ll be in touch.
Excellent post, and thank you! My two cents worth –
1. Suicide interventions in the cells should have been performed retroactively; after the raghead bastards stopped twitching, it would be safe to remove them. Why coddle them?
2. I may have mentioned before, I DO have a plan to close down Gitmo overnight. It will require a few dozen daisy cutters. No need to evacuate the cells, they can find their own way out after the walls are vaporized. Sure, the rest of the lovely Castro paradise will probably sink as well, leaving a greasy stain in the water, but surely the libtards can understand the term ‘collateral damage’.
Coby,
Nice seeing you again, and rather less taciturn than last time.
That said: the reason people don’t get indignant about that stuff is we don’t expect prisoners to behave well, they’re prisoners. We do expect soldiers to behave well, they’re soldiers. The standards are different-and speaking personally, I’m pretty happy that soldiers are held to a higher standard. We are better than that, and should be no matter what they do.
Maydayog, let me add my thanks too. It’s great to hear the real story, rather than what some whacked-out loser makes up, just to get his 15 seconds of fame. And welcome.
AS,
I’m calming in my (somewhat) old age.
There’s three sides to the Gitmo story: the guard’s side, detainee’s side, and-somewhere in the middle-the truth.
Keep in mind that I can’t attest to anything that happened before 2005 (and even then, I was only in the camp for about three months before I got moved), but the only abuse I saw came from the detainees, not the guards.
Yes, we should be better and held to a higher standard than what people suggest we’ve become, and I don’t have a problem with that. Where I take exception is when people suggest that the detainees are completely innocent, and that we’re beating the hell out of them…because it’s not happening. If anything, it’s the other way around…and like you said, it’s written off as an “occupational hazard” by most Americans when they’re told about it. Case in point: people cheer for the detainees when they see movies like “The Road to Guantanamo” (which I saw the summer after I came back from there), and think that’s all there is to the story.
I hold the same opinion about Gitmo that I do about Winter Soldier: if something happened that was illegal, then get the information out there and let’s hold people accountable. But if people are lying about what they saw there, they need to be held accountable as well. And as maydayog shows, the community of people who have served there is a lot smaller (compared to those who’ve gone to Iraq/Afganistan), so it’s a lot easier to flesh out the truth of what goes on there.
Coby,
Good to hear. Who knows, maybe one day you’ll be the one posing for the pictures of friendship across the aisle.
Anyway…I guess my position is that people see from the perception of their small unit experience. For example: the way a soldier’s first tour is always What The Army Is for them if they don’t reup or extend. No matter how much you try to convince them that one shitty unit isn’t The Entire Army, you’re screwed-they’re going to see through their experience. And if they’re asked about the Army, they might well reply, “It was a shitty place”. Not because the Army’s a shitty place, but because their experience was. They’re not lying, but they don’t have the whole story to see by-like the five blind men and the elephant. Conversely, if someone has a fantastic unit, and insists, “There is nothing wrong with the Army, everything always goes smoothly, I don’t know what you’re talking about.”
If you’re anything like me (and who knows, maybe you are) your military experience has been filled with great and terrible people. There’s probably a few really amazing leaders, and a few crummy leaders. A few who did the right thing against every instinct not to, and a few who took the opportunity to commit crimes.
That’s the way the Army is. That’s the way the world is.
But we can be better, and expect better, and change, at the very least, the things we can.
More later-I have to take off.
Thanks for the post, appreciate teh counter point(s)
Gentle Men,
We are in a world where the weak are coddled and the liar is pat on the head. Anyone who has served can tell when they see a weak minded liar.
Aside from the emo. (the little turd)
I applaud your honorable service and the courage you display by stepping up when so many have yet to speak out. “Lead by example” and others will follow. keep it up Maydayog.
Run along, Claus, nothing to see here. I think he got confused and mistook TAH with something in the Ukraine.