Haring; Marines’ requirements for infantry officers are unrealistic
Ellen Haring writes in the pages of the Marine Corps Times about how, in her opinion, the Marine Corps’ Infantry standards for officers are not realistic. You know, based on her experience as a litigant when she sued the Army to make her an infantry officer.
During the break, I asked one of the Marine representatives how often Marines actually carry 152 pounds that distance and he said “infrequently .” I was still curious, so I polled a few Marine infantry officers to find out how often they had carried loads of 95 to 152 pounds during their deployments. I was a bit surprised by the responses because I thought the requirement might at least come close to some operational example. However, one infantry officer with two combat deployments, one as a weapons company commander said, “I’m trying to imagine the type of fighting and tactical task that requires you to move around administratively in an AO with 150-plus pounds on your back… Nothing is impossible, but trying to come up with a situation, mission and METT-T where this would be required is… a unicorn in my opinion.”
From what I can tell about Haring’s career, she has done a very good job of avoiding deployments to the war against terrorists. She sued the Army when they decided that she shouldn’t be on a Female Engagement Team probably because of her inexperience leading troops. Her only experience with combat seems to be the one time she watched Audie Murphy in his auto-biographical movie “To Hell and Back”. So she asks some people at a conference for their input, you know, because she has no personal experience.
The only reason that she has a problem with the 152-pound ruck is because it makes it hard for women to pass the course. There are men who can’t meet the standard either, and they’re booted from the course.
The Marine Corps Times is being disingenuous, though, when they call her “an Army colonel” because she’s really just a social justice warrior who wants women killed in equal numbers as men in combat. As long as she’s not included on those casualty lists.
Category: Army News
Another SJW who also rides the EO Quota Wagon goes on another attention-whoring spree. If she got her wish, I wonder how often Light Infantrymen would have to hump extra gear and weight because Quota-Riders like her crapped out?
Probably sits her fat ass behind a desk all the time instead of working out and preparing for the physical agility tests….she just wants a gift, not to have to work for it! Throw her litigationous ass out for the good of the service ! imho
I’m over in the Middle East on a work assignment (ex-USAF) and I just asked 20 randomly selected Muslim men of fighting age their thoughts about Ms. Haring’s opinions. To a man they agreed with her and they look forward to meeting lots more like her the next time the Marines have to visit here./s
C’mon, let’s be honest and admit that 152 pound weight is discriminatory in keeping women out of the infantry officer corps. That being said, I suggest they raise it to 175 pounds.
Well played, sir! Very well played indeed.
If she cannot pick me up and carry me out of danger then she should find another career.
I wonder who these people she interviewed or asked these questions to actually were. I have a hard time believing they didn’t say that exact same thing to her. An officer with two combat deployments should (and likely does) know better than that.
Of course, who knows if she really asked anybody…
It’s better to ask if the people she interviewed actually exist.
SJWs always lie.
I doubt for the last 12 years of her career she carried anything heavier than a coffee cup.
Even her “Bag” was probably carried by some poor dumb 2LT.
She clearly intends to be an Eleven Bravo Foxtrot.
Related story:
When Donald Trump heard what Haring had said, he replied, “come on, look at her …”.
She’d be offended by Donald Trump not trying to sexually harass her.
Jeezus… what the fuck gives her the right to open her pie hole and question the USMC standards for the course?
Oh, I forgot – she’s a “Social Justice Warrior”.
Hey, Haring – until you join the USMC and attempt the course, SIT DOWN AND SHUT THE FUCK UP!
Ummm HMCS(FMF), didn’t you mean SIT DOWN AND SHUT THE FUCK UP SIR!
She isn’t a SIR, and honestly, probably doesn’t rate a Ma’am.
For sure doesn’t rate a Ma’am anymore.
She’s retired.
So her standard name line and $1.05 will get her a cup of Micky D’s coffee just like the rest of the civilian world.
True, but I do typically refer to retired officers by sir or ma’am…just not this one.
Damn straight…
Well, if she is retired, then the correct for of address for HMCS(FMF)would be, SIT DOWN AND SHUT THE FUCK UP BITCH! Adding, “BEFORE I JAP SLAP YOU” being optional.
“BEFORE I MAKE MY PIMP HAND STRONG!” would be my first choice…
Not gonna lie I find this woman attractive and wouldn’t mind taking her for a nice steak dinner.
Hey, little fefe-forker. Make sure you tell her about that 46 days of DEP/Active duty time you had. I’m sure she’ll drop her drawers for a 23 year old after hearing that.
Where’s that all new DD214? Mailed it in yet? How’s it going on the young man’s rodeo circuit? Still doing ball washings on a regular basis?
But the main question is: Did you ever find your fancy shine box?
Hey littleiron, where are completing? I am in our area. Put up or forever shutup. Joe
SHUT UP, BUNNY FART!! Where’s the DD214 you promised to show us, you twinkle-toed candyassed dingleberry?
I seem to have missed the backstory on our friend Dalton…
Dalton Coldiron. 46 day ELS. Went back home to Perry, OK claiming he was a Ranger. Got a tat to prove it. Has some sort of a fetish about licking bunny butt.
Somebody will provide a direct link. (I’m not computer literate enough to do the linky thing) If not, just put his name into the search box at the top of the page.
Enjoy. He’s a hoot.
I don’t think she’s your type, Dalton, what with her being human and stuff. Why not stick with your stump-broke farm animals up there in Oklahoma?
no kidding. thats a whole lot of hostility for a comment like that.
rofl!
*Looks up Dalton Coldiron*
http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=36932
Yeah, and the subsequent posting by that Hobo guy on 9 Aug 2013 has one of the best lines I ever heard Jonn say:
“So, I guess he’ll be going to Russia to train the Spetznatz in spork warfare.”
Still laughing my ass off over that one.
Little Fe-Fe Forker. Still providing quality entertainment three years later.
Sorry, Claw – wish I’d have said that, but that line was Jonn’s, not mine. “Credit where credit is due” and all that.
http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=37002&cpage=1#comment-902626
Wait. What?
I thought I did credit Jonn with the line.
I swear I identified that Hobo guy as being the author of the post that the line from Jonn appeared in.
(Smile)
That poor Bunny.
I’m thinking the only steak dinner you’re familiar with is the one you get stuck up your ass every night. Now, go fuck yourself.
He’s a tubesteak connoisseur at the rump-riding rodeo!
This from the guy who mastubates while watching someone else play “Call of Duty.”
I’d let IDC SARC grudge fuck her and only if he wanted to. I’m a happily married man and even if I wasn’t, I wouldn’t touch her with a VD-infected lawyer’s dick, there’s no telling how many she spread her legs for in order to get where she did!
Claw’s already asked you about that “new” DD214, bunni-boi – so I don’t have to.
Mail a copy to Jonn. Or STFU.
Now go home and get your (furry) shine box.
Hey Dickless Cocksucker… how you doing playing at the rump-riding rodeo? Any update on when you’re sending the updated DD-214, or are you just too busy slurping smegma and puffing on peters?
Keep on lying… your gayboy rodeo buttbuddies know all about you along with the Internet.
BTW – leave little fefe alone, she probably doesn’t like you trying to practice feltching her up your dilated asshole.
Herring wants an example, looking, I suppose, for some regular heavy lifting. Well, it doesn’t quite work that way. The lifting and carrying need comes w/o notice. That’s why one has to be prepared for it and able to do it. She likes movies, I guess and I suppose she will see the movie about Desmond Doss next month. I hope she pays close attention. This is from his Medal of Honor citation: “Pfc. Doss refused to seek cover and remained in the fire-swept area with the many stricken, carrying all 75 casualties one-by-one to the edge of the escarpment and there lowering them on a rope-supported litter down the face of a cliff to friendly hands.”
“I can only help those men who weigh no more than 110 lbs,” said Desmond Doss NEVER.
I don’t know how far or long I could carry a 200 lb. man on my shoulders, but I know from experience that I can. I used to lead my platoon in runs where we’d stop and do intervals of fireman carry lunges. It probably qualifies me as a sadist, but I did it too, and they were prepared for the WORST.
And that’s the point, isn’t it? No one trains for a 5K by running 5K. They run 10K. Don’t prepare to carry a 35 lb. ruck by carrying a 35 lb. ruck. Carry a 60 pounder instead. Then, running 5K or carrying 35 lbs. will be easy. Seems obvious, but I suppose Col. Haring and a likely fictional veteran of two combat deployments prove otherwise.
Zactly. Good points.
“I don’t know how far or long I could carry a 200 lb. man on my shoulders, but I know from experience that I can.” You would carry him as far as you need to carry him. I don’t know why or how it works that way, but it does. You make it happen.
I get ya. At IBOLC, I led the final sixteen mile ruck march and platoon assault on an objective. While it was going on, I felt fine. After I got the “go” and went back to my apartment, I could barely walk. Chalk it up to adrenaline, I guess.
It’s just a goofy training situation, and not the same as rescuing a wounded comrade off the battlefield, but I think it demonstrates the same general point.
See, that’s the detail that the good Colonel here forgets….that ruck march is not a stroll with equipment. If you’re an infantryman, there’s a good chance that there is going to be a fight at some point. Hell, I’m not Infantry and even I know that.
Has she ever carried a rucksack herself since she graduated from training and if she actually did, was it actually loaded or was it stuffed with newspaper?
I seem to recall them weighing ours to make sure we didn’t pull that kind of stuff
*Haring. At least spell her name correctly so that google tags this site for others to read.
Ellen Haring
Ellen Haring
Ellen Haring
Ellen Haring
Just shut up, Ellen. Your opinion carries no more weight than any other individual, and quite a lot less than the opinions of those who have actually done the job.
While you are at it, Ellen, how’s about sitting down, preferably in a corner, for an extended time out. You have earned it.
Idiots spewing garbage concerning things about which they know nothing or very little is a complete waste of time. Following her “logic,” perhaps folks should consider my opinion significant about pilot standards just because I am retired USAF? No, of course not.
Her lunacy calls into question whether she earned those birds or just wore people in a position to promote and transfer down in an effort to get her away from their commands.
Or she sucked her way up, a la (master)Bateman.
I think all female O-5s should have to go through Marine Boot Camp before they pin O-6.
That’s worth about as much as what she has to say….
GO FUCK YOURSELF SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR! GO THE FUCK AWAY!
Excuse the histrionics…she just needs to stay the fuck away from our standards.
You forgot “GO FUCK YOURSELF WITH AN EXTRA LARGE PINEAPPLE, FRONDS FIRST (etc)”. Other then that, a good go at it. But I thought Marines had a larger vocabulary of swear words. Or maybe you were applying the KISS principle? Keep It Simple for the Stoopid.
Really, what is an Army colonel (deliberately small “c”), social climber, never deployed, wanna-be, SJW, bleeding-heart, doing commenting about Uncle Sam’s Misguided Children (HOOAH!), in any way, shape, form, or manner?
The editor of the Marine Corps Times should have rejected her missive out of hand, and anyone she talked to to try to get her biased POV “information” should have shut her down immediately with a hearty hand shake and a cup of warm STFU and STFD.
Great point regarding the Marine Corps Times editor. I have no idea why this blue falcon shitbird was allowed to contribute such a bullshit article.
She is a disgrace.
Because the MCT is run by Gannett, the same libtard idiots who brought you USA Today.
Oh, G-d. The military papers are probably the only reason that USA Today is still operating. USA Today has probably been operating at a loss for the past 5 years. I wish that they and the New Yawk Slime would hurry up and go bankrupt.
Most of the hotels I stay in do McPaper.
Unless a copy is shoved under my door, I don’t bother, and if it is, about 99 percent of the time it goes in the shitcan.
Remember, as far as Haring is concerned, it’s only “fair” if she gets exactly what she wants, when she wants it.
I have great sympathy for anyone who has this stupid bitch in their chain of command.
She’s retired. She could only make it to O-6 because, you know, its so tough for females to progress in the Army without being in a Combat branch.
Poor woman, I don’t know how she’ll sustain herself on a lowly O-6 retirement pension…
Cocksucker?
No. Rug cleaner.
Carpet muncher.
That’s why She’ll become SECArmy or SECDEF if Hillary becomes POTUS.
Ain’t Ready to be a Marine Yet.
This cunt. ?
I think she should have actually looked at the full load that infantry carry even in the Army. I can think of several times I carried in excess of 150 pounds as an infantry officer in the Army. By the time you add the weight of body armor, ammo, water, and other items just in the fighting load you are looking at a minimum 45 – 60 pounds. Then you add a rucksack with more water, food, ammo, radios, batteries and minimal personal gear, you get to 75-120 pounds easily for the pack. When you combine those weights it gets effing heavy and my knees still hurt in the morning from it. Something tells me she didn’t talk to Marines that actually led in combat or line units.
Doesn’t matter to Haring. When she was in, the Army would have assigned a PFC, or maybe a Corporal, to carry her ruck for her. She would have demanded it. After all, it’s important to have women officers, just for appearances.
Like I said earlier, IMHO she was a “Quota Rider”.
I remember one time coming back from Korea. A female Major bought an entire matched luggage set and then expected us to help her with it. She had to be told by an O-6, “uh, you bought it, you carry it.”
We would’ve helped her if she at least tried, but it was her intent that we help her carry it.
Now that you have the load specified by MT FAO,
Fall down crossing a creek, get fully immersed and waterlogged, with no time to stop and wring it all out.
BINGO! I came VERY close to drowning due to a fall into a frigid lake. I became so heavy/waterlogged it took 3 men to haul me out. Add a torrential rain to a full ruck and whatever else you are wearing and suddenly you have a damn hefty load.
Heck, I carried 120 lbs in my rucksack at the Civil Affairs qualification course, and Civil Affairs is not widely known as a branch where you are forced to do arduous things.
Its non-arduous if you’re in a CACOM and some Brigades.
Their biggest trouble is not having enough copies of newspapers to read during drill.
“It’s too hard!!!*
“Fuck you, I’m not going!*
Slick-sleeved c*nt.
I especially like how the Marine Corps Times disowns her comments in the very first paragraph.
If they had truly disowned her comments, they’d have told her to Fuck OFf and write about the Army.
But then, they wanna sell papers.
During the break, I asked one of the Marine representatives how often Marines actually carry 152 pounds that distance and he said “infrequently .”
SO….by this woman’s logic:
How often must a military officer command a platoon attack in an operational environment? Answer: INFREQUENTLY.
Does that mean that they shouldn’t bother qualifying in it?
How often during a serviceperson’s career must they fire their weapon in combat? Answer: INFREQUENTLY.
So, let’s not bother with that one either shall we?!
You silly little girl.
Outstanding point.
As a Naval Aircrewman, my quals dealt with situations I never ever ran into.
The rarer the situation, the more important it is to maintain your proficiency. Otherwise you’ll be useless when that low-frequency, high-stress situation does occur.
How often does the average infantryman engage in a room-to-room firefight against a live enemy trying to kill them? INFREQUENTLY.
How often does the average infantryman engage enemy armor with a Javelin or AT-4? INFREQUENTLY.
How often does the average infantryman call in mortar, artillery, or air strikes? INFREQUENTLY.
How often does the average infantryman engage armed hostiles at 400 yards while taking fire? INFREQUENTLY.
How often must the average infantryman perform life-saving first aid on a critically-wounded buddy? INFREQUENTLY.
So according to Haring, none of these skills are necessary for an infantryman. I don’t need to be infantry to know that she’s full of shit.
By that same logic:
The Reserves perform duty: INFREQUENTLY
The National Guard performs duty: INFREQUENTLY
Hence, we don’t need the entire Reserve Component because they are in uniform INFREQUENTLY.
She should really speak to the medics…..hauling a wounded Infantryman in full battle rattle to cover for treatment can be a bit of a physical challenge.
Having done it myself, it is an exhausting experience.
Hey Doc, where you a Gimlet by chance?
I spent close to 4 years as a 81s Platoon Sgt and I will say that as a rule we TRIED to keep our loads as light as possible.
Even with that The very LIGHTEST would be close to 100 pounds,
Cold weather training with the Mountain pack was at least 150 pounds.. and that’s with out the weapons systens.
I was going to add my 2 cents, but Jonn sums it up very well.
Why does an Army Colonel have anything to say about the Marine Corps? And why is a woman saying anything about the Infantry? What is this?
It is SJW bullshit masquerading a “equality” propaganda. Only crazy “wymyn” want to be in the infantry. Even chicks with dicks, like “Chelsea” Manning didn’t pick infantry. Someone should load this stupid scru*t up with a full combat load of ammo, armor, weapons, food, six quarts of water, radio and the rest of the gear and take her for a walk in the desert at 120 degrees and see how much infantry she can take. Or better yet, kick her ass out of a C-130 in the dark of night with full combat equipment, including the 35 pound hand-crank generator for the AN/GRC109, something I only did INFRQUENTLY.
Using her flawed logic there was no reason for Marines In WW 2 to be able to march 20 miles with gear because Iwo Jima was only 5 miles long.
Haring’s past writings show that she doesn’t know – and can’t bother to research – squat. In particular, she’s demonstrated her abject ignorance concerning the definition of the term “valor” (in a past article she equated valor to a tangible object awarded to recognize same vice what the Army defines it to be: heroism performed under combat conditions). The fact that she’s publicly waxing ignorant yet again here should be no surprise.
Here, the “rookie” error she makes is in not realizing – as others have pointed out very well above – that “infrequently” is decidedly not the same as “never”. The former term (“infrequently”) describes many things that happen on the battlefield when compared to a full military career. The latter (“never”) describes her experience in combat. Equating the two is absurd, but quite Haring-esque.
Her latest article here has the same credibility as a “how to” sex manual written by someone who’s been celibate their entire life.
I don’t believe what she is doing can be called a rookie error. I think she and those of her ilk deliberately obfuscate the issue.
A 17-18 year old Marine going through basic training is not expected to perform at the same level as a 20-21 year old NCO. By the time a butter bar gets to a line unit they find themselves surrounded by Marines that have been training at a much higher level.
For a Marine officer to jump into the mix and command respect he better have his head and ass wired together or he is in for a very short career. His SNCO and NCO’s performance will make or break him.
Even if a woman gets through a school, her challenge has only just begun. The logistical nightmare of women given lip service about being equal and the actuality of it are worlds apart.
The very last thing a SNCO wants to deal with before a deployment is a weak officer. Real or perceived it puts extra burdens on an already over taxed Marine.
A good officer that is up for the challenge of the FMF is a breath of fresh air. I was lucky, overall I had outstanding officers. Some were truly exceptional.
It’s entirely possible that she’s being deliberately mendacious vice clueless. But her past major gaffe involving defining “valor” leads me to believe cluelessness is at least partially to blame.
It is that willful ignorance which makes her such a laughing stock, and what makes all the SJW’s so dangerous. Their agenda is more important than reason, sanity, and facts. They remain ignorant by choice.
She is definitely willfully ignorant. She probably was before she enlisted. Unlike other SJW’s, she was in a position to learn the truth, but decided to remain ignorant instead. Her failure to deploy, thus being removed from the real needs of those in or even near combat, supports the willful ignorance assumption on my part particularly if she herself purposefully avoided deployment.
When “That Hobo Guy” voices an opinion I generally accept it en passant. I believe people who have been in line units see her as clueless as well.
I can not imagine her not understanding the ramifications of thrusting women into combat billets. She simply, and wrongfully, believes that doing so outweighs the them.
Giving her a platform (military times) to voice her agenda in and of itself lends some credibility to her position. We just need to get much better at factually debunking it. She needs to be ridiculed and exposed as the farse that she is.
Semper Fi Hobo Guy.
Damn Dave, is it fancy word Sunday? That’s two…..Obfuscate and en passant.
Here I thought you were just the guy who shared videos of women constantly pawing over you and Hondo…
They fawn over Hondo. I am the one who usually ends up at the pawn shop because of them.
DH: virtually anyone who’s been in a combat arms unit knows she’s full of crap. Ditto most of those who’ve ever served in a land combat service (Army or USMC). That’s around half of the US military. It’s also only a tiny fraction of the US population. Most of the rest – including, sadly, many in services that don’t have a traditional ground combat role – see her branch of service (Army) and rank and assume that she actually knows what she’s talking about. She decidedly does not. Even everyone who’s served in the Army may not realize how full of crap she is. The Army is big enough that it’s possible never to serve in a combat-arms unit below Div HQ or DISCOM level (even if one serves a full career on active duty) if one is in a combat service support branch. I’d guess that’s rare, but can happen. And remember: much of her career was in the USAR, which is is largely combat support/combat service support. Very few combat arms units there. Further, at the time she entered active duty (around 30 years ago) if I recall correctly the Army still banned assignment of female officers to virtually all billets in combat-arms units (pretty much everything below Div HQ and DISCOMs, as I recall). Policy at the time also categorically banned her holding a combat arms specialty. Since she transitioned to the USAR after several years on active duty (she retired as a USAR O-6), given the time of her commissioning it’s entirely possible she had very little or no firsthand exposure to combat arms units during here entire career. (She apparently transitioned to Civil Affairs from her original branch – I don’t think a CA commission was possible as a 2LT in the mid-1980s, and the vast majority of CA slots are still in the USAR.) Her only exposure to what combat arms units actually do may thus have been in officer training – and for the support branches, that’s brief and hardly representative of reality. She’d have had little direct exposure after leaving active duty.… Read more »
I doubt any expression could be more succinct than “willful ignorance”. She has been challenged on her positions so many times at this point it is impossible to believe she would continue to cast aspersions unknowingly.
I agree that she can offer no personal attestation to combat arms deployment. As I often say, “There is a difference between not knowing a thing and won’t know a thing.” She is an example of the latter.
Thanks for your usual enlightened response…I shall now return to my duties as the village idiot.
Village idiot my ass, DH. An idiot of any type you are not.
I concur, Dave here is the resident “Cranky Old Man”; with all the honors and privileges appended thereto.
Hondo,
If she keeps making, “rookie errors,” as you state, how the fuck did she ever make it past Second Lieutenant?
Yeah, I know, I know. Asking a question to which I already know the answer is just gonna piss me off that much more.
And memo to the women who do want to go Infantry, and who want to make the sacrifice: have a little, “Come to Jesus” meeting with this whiny waste of a commission and let her know in no uncertain terms she does not speak for you, and that she should kindly STFU.
She ain’t doing you no favors.
You guys want me to send her a letter telling her she’s full of shit and should learn to zip it before some tanker girls find her and pound her?
“If she keeps making, “rookie errors,” as you state, how the fuck did she ever make it past Second Lieutenant?”
Because, she used her being female to her advantage at every turn.
I’d bet she ensured anyone else knew that she was prepared to throw out the EO card and ruin careers if need be.
A sex manual written by a celibate? Oh, Hondo, please don’t tell me you read ‘Men Are From Mars – Women Are From Venus’!
Geez, Loueeez!
Hondo’s one of those “sensitive, new age guys”…
Yeah, right. Sod off, mate. (smile)
Gag.
Yesh, quite a cheeky diddy. That has to be at least 25 years old if not more!
Nope, never read the book and don’t plan to. Given the fact that Gray’s “doctorate” was apparently from a well-known diploma mill, I’d regard anything written by Gray as being about as credible as any allegation made by our “most favorite lawer”. (smile)
Besides, Gray doesn’t qualify. According to Wikipedia, he’s been married twice and has one natural daughter with his 2nd wife. With that background, I kinda doubt he’s a lifetime celibate. (smile)
Besides, not all women are from Venus. Puerto Rican women, for example, are from Planet Batshit Crazy in the Loco-chica galaxy.
You are correct, however, you must remember that ALL Hispanic women are from the Loca Chica Galaxy. They only differ in planetary residence; however, all planets in that galaxy seem to be some variation of crazy. I’m married to one (Honduran)…couldn’t live any other way because life is never boring.
Yo Se Verdad. (I know, right? in Spanish)
I’ve dated quite a few of them. Definitely interesting. And not as quick to wanna draw blood as Korean women when they’re angry.
And, at least when young, most Hispanic women are just beautiful.
Then they get married and fat.
[…] This ain’t Hell… covers someone whining about infantry officer standards […]
I know plenty of Infantrymen who humped the mountains of the Korengal and Pech valleys in Afghanistan with 100, 120, 150 pounds or more on them. Often at crazy high altitudes. Day after day. Month after month. These men have back, neck, knee, etc injuries they deal with every day and will, as you all know, for the rest of their lives.
I effing HATE “women” like this piece of crap.
I’m right in line with you on that, PC.
This broad pisses me off. There are women who are combat cameramen, something I could not get in the 1960s, who are training with the SEALs and for all I know, deploying with them into combat zones. This bitch does not know what the hell she’s talking about, and she never will.
She is doing far more harm than good by running that asinine mouth of hers.
My time in Iraq was mostly mounted, though I was often standing in a gunner’s position in a Gun Truck. (Back when we kept gunners up and ready, instead of sitting down and hiding)
But, I went to Afghanistan and spent my tour chasing 20 year old Cav Troopers up and down hills. It wasn’t so bad while I was there. However, when I got back and finally got the “you’re getting too old for this shit” speech from my Doc, I went through months and months of physical therapy to try to at least get my joints up to decent strength levels. The VA doesn’t do well with “wear n’ tear” so much.
I’m living with joint and back pain as well. I have arthritis in multiple places, to which a doc said, “Oh that’s just gray hair for your muscles.” Yeah, I didn’t realize gray hair actually hurt. That must suck for so many.
And I didn’t even have it that tough on my 3 tours. Plenty of others had a much worse time, like those guys in Korengal and Pech.
Doing all that stuff in cold weather doesn’t help, either.
“Gray hair for muscles”. Heh.I like that. And no Grecian Formula for it, either.
And they took away our Vioxx!
I think I’m going to steal that phrase myself.
I’m not weak and creaky, I just have gray hair for my muscles.
My son regularly humped >100 lbs as SAW gunner for his squad in Baghdad – on daily patrols. Not extended, just out-and-back.
I would have no issues with back-handing bird-brained Ellen Haring. Stupid hurts. When it hurts others, people like Ellen Haring need their butts whupped.
I’ve got an example for her…STAY IN YOUR OWN LANE.
Marine Officers are expected to show up and LEAD…not show up and have to work towards a standard. They are the ones who are supposed to SET the example for the NCO’s to point out to the PFC’s and say “Don’t let that butter bar beat you”.
The Officers she spoke to don’t write these standards, don’t see the research and data that went into creating these standards and quite frankly should STFU and enforce the standards. Whether they agree or disagree with them…their job is to enforce and train to the standards set forth by HQMC and there are proper channels and ways to get standards changed….opening your piehole to this thing is NOT one of them.
I’d bet that if she deployed, as an O-6, it means she was sitting in the Green Zone, or at Corps HQ in Baghdad. And/or she was at Bagram if she went to Afghanistan, or in Qatar or Kuwait. (Though I looked at various pages that claim to show her bio summary, even linkedin and I didn’t see where it says she deployed at all) I’ve had to deal with Women like her in the Army for years, Civil Affairs is a common gathering point for them. They think everyone owes them something for gracing us with their presence. They think they understand how tough it really is, but had men pulling their chairs out for them their whole career. And when they get in charge, watch out. If you’re an Alpha Male, you better leave quickly because they’ll try to destroy you. Only Beta males need apply. They better have “blind loyalty” to that female commander too, otherwise even they will be destroyed. I had to follow in about a 5 mile ruck march well behind a female commander who was fat and out of shape. We had 18 year old kids marching and asking why we were stopping every couple hundred meters. Oh, maybe because a fat LTC is trying to lead, but can’t really? And, at that, is stopping constantly in front of a whole unit of troops who are asking why we keep stopping. What sucks worse than trying to ruck 5 miles? Having to stop constantly to wait for someone, with a nerf ruck, who can’t hang, let alone when it is the commander. Juxtapose that, I’ve worked with plenty of female Soldiers that were awesome and excelled at their duties, but didn’t throw the “woman” card out every 5 seconds like this twat waffle does. She doesn’t want to be “equal” she wants to be more than equal and define what is really equal for her. Which means if Hillary becomes POTUS, this particular twat waffle will probably become SECDEF because she also won’t mind putting her head where Huma Abudin’s is normally. Given… Read more »
You therefore have a few who can’t/won’t carry their weight – that’s a metaphor – and a group who can, and do, just that, and an obnoxious, self-centered, weak ego cow like this takes center front stage.
She’s not willing to give credit where it’s due because the REAL troopers/soldiers/whatever make her look so damned small, she’s almost microscopic, and she knows it. You can’t even yell ‘Man up!’ at her, and it’s not because it’s non-PC. It’s because she’s never been faced down and made to do what she’s whining about.
I think we should do a gofundme for Ex-PH2 to go kick her ass around her desk a few times.
I’m in.
No, don’t waste money on it.
The forum of public opinion is more effective than a one-to-one with a bimbo like Haring.
She stands on the shoulders of women who did a helluva a lot more than she EVER thought of doing, and who put up with crap that isn’t ‘allowed’ today, even if it still exists in some places. THEY bit their tongues, put their shoulders to the wheel and did their jobs, and includes military women stationed overseas in Europe/UK and in the Pacific during WWII, and women in Korea and Vietnam.
She does not have a leg to stand on. All she is doing is spitting in the faces of women who went before her, and I, for one, am tired of it.
Thinking about it, ex-PH2, aren’t women like her just engaging in another form of Stolen Valor?
Wanting to be like (at least in their own minds) the women who truly paved the way against very real discrimination, they build up straw-man enemies and pseudo-obstacles to “overcome” so they can feel good about themselves.
Much like the SV types build up false stories to feel good about themselves.
Yes, they are. They absolutely are.
They can’t hold a candle to women like Harriet Tubman, a black woman paid by the Union Army to be a spy and an armed scout.
They can’t measure up to the WAAC women pilots who flew aircraft wherever they were needed during WWII. They can’t hold a candle to the women who served in MASHs in Korea and Vietnam, or in CASHs and war zones in the Middle East.
They know it and it must just burn a hole in their egos to admit that they are nothing compared to them.
Bingo. Pure stats show that’s the case.
Selection to CPT is in the 96% range (or higher) – for those considered by the board. For MAJ, it’s varied; let’s say 75% for a long-term average (I think that’s high, but we’ll use it). For LTC, recent boards have had a selection rate around 60%. For COL, that’s been around 40-44% recently.
So, doing the math . . . if EVERY officer commissioned stayed in until forced out (either by max years of service for grade or 2x nonselection), the fraction making COL would be (.96 x .75 x .6 x .44) = .19008, or about 19%. Since many (half or more would be my guess) officers leave active duty for other reasons prior to being “shown the door”, that means the chances of making COL for any Army officer commissioned as a 2LT is well below 10%. I’m pretty sure I’ve read somewhere that the actual number is around 3-4%.
Making GO is another question entirely. There are only around 300 GO billets in the Army, so competition there is much stiffer. I’ve read somewhere that the chances of an officer making making GO (any of the 4 ranks) is far less than 1%.
I’m guessing she’s never talked to a member of a 240B team or an anti-armor team? Or been a litter bearer or cas-evac? Emplaced an M2 or MK19? What happens when somebody in your team or squad goes down and has to be moved?
She can’t answer those questions for several reasons:
A) – She’d dump it off on somebody else.
B) – It’s beneath her to do such mundane shit.
I was going to write a more realistic endurance test for the Col., but after finishing it I decided that the 152 lb. test would probably be easier.
COL(ret) {which I think stands for retarded};
This white lines on a highway designate lanes. You need to stay in yours.
If you find that you can’t stay in your lane, please proceed to the nearest home improvement store and purchase a 16lb sledge hammer. From there please proceed to the nearest beach.
Upon reaching said beach, pound sand until you have learned to stay in your lane.
With all due respect,
A former Marine infantry man who humped some heavy ass ALICE packs in my time (and while they might not have weighed 152lbs, they were well over 95lbs)
Since she’s retired now AND I have my pretty little DD214, I’d gladly offer her a nice big glass of STFU!!
FWIW: here’s a document that details the assault (fighting), approach march, and emergency approach march loads for one 82nd Airborne TF in Afghanistan circa 2003. While not USMC, I kinda doubt there’s much different from what the USMC carried during the same time frame – or much different that is the case today. Most if not all of the equipment listed all seems to be still in the inventory.
http://thedonovan.com/archives/modernwarriorload/ModernWarriorsCombatLoadReport.pdf
I skimmed the doc. The average assault load (drop rucks prior to assault) looked to be in the 60+lb range, with some higher. The average approach march load (with rucks) seemed to be in the 90-115lb range. Emergency approach loads (extra stuff in rucks due to traversing areas impassible to vehicles or unavailability of vehicles/air transport) seemed to range from 115-145lbs. All loads included weapon, LCE, ruck, helmet, and body armor.
However, for some the data was incomplete – including the emergency approach loads for mortar squad members. I’d guess some of those incomplete listings likely topped 150lbs.
In short: as I noted above, Haring is full of it. If infantry soldiers are carrying all that’s prescribed, an approach march load of 92+lbs is reality for many if not most infantry soldiers. An emergency approach march load of >150lbs is also indeed plausible for selected personnel.
And that’s with the prescribed basic load of ammo – which is rather heavy. Add extra ammo if available (damn right people will do that in combat; I was at a relatively safe area when deployed, and I obtained and routinely carried about 2x or 3x the amount of ammo that was initially issued to me) or special gear, and a ruck weighing well over 120+lbs by itself – not counting water, LCE, IBA, helmet, and individual weapon – is indeed plausible; a 150lb ruck isn’t out of the question. Even a 115lb ruck pushes that individual’s load well above 150 lbs.
And then there is the terrain. Carrying that 152 lbs. on a level surface is probably easier than carrying a 50+ lb ruck (plus water, ammo, body armor, etc.) cross-country up and down hills.
I never heard of an “emergency approach march” before. I always thought cross-country was SOP. Is that the new, all volunteer Army?
There was a concern in my unit in RVN about excessive combat loads for my LRRP (Ranger)company teams. So, I put on all my gear (STABO rig, with 8 AK mags, grenades, six quarts of water and M60 belt of 100rds, my loaded ruck, and weapon (AK)), and stood on a scale. Even with no helmet or armor (which we did not carry), I was loaded down with over 120 pounds. And remember, we traveled light. The idea that this load is appropriate for the female musco-skeletal system is absurd. Add the weight of our current body armor system and the whole concept is preposterous. The fact that some female officer sitting at a computer in a FOB or a TOC doesn’t routinely carry these loads is irrelevant.
timactual: the combat load definitions are found on pp. 7-8 of the linked document. Essentially, the “emergency approach march” category assumes vehicular and/or air transport support is not available, thus requiring the carrying of more supplies/ammo/equipment and using the large ruck vice the smaller assault ruck used on a standard “approach march”. It appears to add about 30lbs to the “approach march” load, give or take.
Even so, the approach march loads (e.g., w/o the extra stuff and using the smaller assault ruck vice the large ruck) were in the 90-115lb range, depending on duty position, for a dismounted infantry soldier. And those number’s aren’t Pentagon pipe-dreams, either – they’re based on data collected from infantry operations in Afghanistan circa 2003.
FWIW: a 50-lb ruck probably equates to around 90-100lb total load, once the weight of IBA/weapon/LCE and other equipment attached to same/ammo is totaled. Those alone easily total in the 40-50lb range.
When I was assigned to an “Airmobile” (1st Cav) unit I naively assumed I would travel mostly by air.
Silly me. Most of our travel was by those “approach marches”. Sometimes they were “approach climbs” where the contour lines on the map merged into one thick line.
I limited my estimate of weight to 50+ lbs. because I did not want to exaggerate. It would not surprise me if the standard total loads, including extras like ammo for crew-served weapons, exceeded 100 lbs.
I still tend to think that the test with 152 lbs. that the Col. complains about is actually easier than a more realistic test of endurance, which should probably take a few days (and nights), not hours.
Has anyone mentioned the effects of heat, yet? If today’s body armor is anything like the old “flak vests” it does a pretty good job of keeping heat in.
Yeah, the new body armor retains heat pretty well. And since it weighs 30-40lbs, you generate even more body heat walking around wearing it. It gets kinda rough wearing it when the ambient temp is high.
Low humidity helps, but 110+ F is still freaking hot – dry or not. And it’s hotter if you’re wearing body armor.
I remember a training event at Hoenfels. Platoon night move to recon/clear a route that the mech guys would be rolling through at dawn. Cold, wet, and viscous mud that made climbing up a hill with any slope an adventure on your hands and knees. Rucks were about 50 lbs of equipment. Assistant gunners were also carrying extra 7.62 blanks for the M-60s, and the RTO had a PRC 77. When we had finally topped one hill, my RTO was puking from exhaustion.
With operational assignments in Bosnia, Iraq, and Afghanistan after that, I never had a situation that sucked that badly. From that experience, I learned that I could embrace the suck, and, regardless of how cold, wet, and miserable I got in those places, I could tell my self that this might be bad, but it’s not as bad as that time in Hoenfels.
I’m sure that, when that Marine 1st Lt gets to the FMF and leads a platoon while carrying only 100 pounds of crap, he can tell himself that it might suck, but it isn’t as bad as it was in the woods of Quantico.
The good colonel needs to stop publishing this kind of stuff and just stick with academia.
Lars agrees with her.
Nailed it!!!
https://www.funker530.com/letter-army-colonel/
The best part was saved for last:
“Finally, until you plan to drop the birds off of your shoulders, and join the United States Marine Corps as a second Lieutenant trying to make entrance into the main effort of the Corps, do not think you can compare yourself or any other woman to those women who have tried out for Marine Corps Infantry Officer’s Course. Those women are cut from the same cloth as all Marines, and you can bet your cushion pillow sitting ass that they gave everything they had, and earned the respect of their brother Marines in the process of doing so. Marines don’t quit, but that doesn’t mean they can’t fail, and it certainly doesn’t mean we think less of any Marine who does fail after truly giving 125% of themselves to the challenge at hand. You can also bet that given another chance, those Whiskey Mikes would be chomping at the bit for another go at IOC, and they would want to pass at the same exact standard as their brother Marines.”
Only problem I have with the guy’s open letter is the fact that the guy is way off in strength figures for the Army and USMC – and otherwise slants his letter in a way that misleads unaware readers quite badly.
First, he appears to compare apples to oranges. And his numbers are specious.
First, he says that the Army has “1.4 million”, and appears to imply he’s discussing active duty strength by then mentioning the USMC’s active strength of “200,000” (more on that in a bit). The active duty Army is nowhere that large today.
He similarly overstates the authorized strength of today’s active USMC – that’s now 182,000. (The USMCR adds an additional 38,500, making the total 220,500 for the “total” USMC.)
The proper comparison would be active to active, or total to total. He doesn’t do that; he compares total Army to active USMC – and gets the numbers for both wrong.
Even including its Reserve Component forces, the Army hasn’t been that large (1.4 million) since shortly after the end of the Cold War. The Active Army is authorized 470,000 personnel (end FY16). The ARNG has an authorized strength of approx 350,200; the USAR, approx 205,000. That’s a bit over 1,020,000 – not 1.4 million.
Second, the letter’s author states that the entire USMC’s focus is on ground combat. In theory, that’s true for both the Army and USMC. But I’ll let him sell the “I’m just a supporter and thus not really important” argument to the USMC aviation community – who, like their Army counterparts, presumably don’t exactly do a lot of dismounted ground combat training. The reality is that ALL military career fields exist to support ground combat in the USMC and Army; they do, but they do so in different ways.
I agree with most of his points, but the errors above detract from his message. And if I can see that, so can the SJW crowd – who will use those errors to discredit what he says.
A good point – when responding to a SJW idiot (but I repeat myself) – make sure the numbers are accurate and the facts line up. Otherwise, you do more harm than good.
Hondo, being our numbers guy, is a good example of how to slap down a SJW.
This woman is an idiot.
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