Jihadist in Orlando?
ABC News reports that a man went into a night club last night in Orlando, Florida with a rifle and a handgun and took hostages. He killed 20 people and wounded 40 more.
At a press conference on Sunday at 7 a.m., FBI assistant agent in charge of the agency’s Tampa division Ron Hopper was asked if the shooter, who was shot and killed by police, had ties to Jihadist terror groups. “At this time we’re looking at all angles right now.” the official said. “We do have suggestions that that individual may have leanings towards that, that particular ideology. But right now we can’t say definitively so we’re still running everything around”
CNN says that the club, “Pulse” was a “gay nightclub”.
“It’s appears he was organized and well-prepared,” the chief said, adding that the shooter had an assault-type weapon, a handgun and “some type of (other) device on him.”
Orlando authorities said they consider the violence an act of domestic terror. The FBI is involved.
The shooting began around 2 a.m., and an officer responded, Mina said. The officer engaged in a shootout outside the club, after which the gunman ran into the club.
“That turned into a hostage situation,” Mina said. Authorities were getting calls from people inside the club but away from the gunman, the chief said.
More police rushed to the scene and broke down a door with an armored vehicle, helping some 30 clubgoers flee to safety, Mina said. At that point police shot and killed the gunman, he said.
From the New York Times;
The gunman was not from the Orlando area and was organized and well-prepared, the police said.
The gunman was found dead inside the Pulse nightclub, one of the largest gay clubs in Orlando, about 5 a.m. after a shootout with officers who were attempting to rescue dozens of people who were being held hostage, said Chief Mina. He confirmed that the gunman had been killed by the police.
The chief said it was difficult to assess the number of clubgoers who had been killed because many of the bodies had not been removed.
UPDATE: According to CBS News, his name is Omar Mir Seddique Mateen;
Law enforcement sources told CBS News the gunman has been identified as Omar Mateen, a U.S. citizen from Port St. Lucie. Mateen was born to Afghan parents in 1986. CBS News reports Mateen has no apparent criminal history and that authorities are investigating whether he had ties to Islamic terrorism.
Gateway Pundit says that ISIS warned of an attack in Florida three days ago. Lucky guess?
Live from the White House;
According to the President, it’s about gun control, not terrorism. Restrict law abiding citizens from protecting themselves. The man who committed this tragedy was investigated twice by the feds as a terrorist, but the NICS failed us, once again. And it’s legal gun owners who will pay the price. “Is this the kind of country that we want to live in?”
Category: Terror War
The Muslim terrorists just have to laughing their asses off right now. Certain Americans–those of the progressive/commie/socialist/liberal persuasion are bending over backwards to avoid saying Muslim Terrorist or Islamo-terrorism. The blind assholes refuse to see that they are nothing less than enablers, maybe worse. Some, including that POS in the White House, are using this to somehow sanctify gayness, when there is no evidence whatsoever that it had anything to do with why this Muslim bastard did what he did. Did Adam Lanza choose Sandy Hook b/c he hated children? And for all we know, the Muslim terrorist bastard in Orlando was gay and chose that place b/c he was familiar with it.
I believe 100% that religion motivated this. It was the foundation of his homophobia.
It WAS Latin Night at the club. Perhaps he was a hispanicphobe too??
God forbid if this ends up being just another run-of-the-mill terrorist attack. The libs and the news people won’t have anything to talk about..
So you are saying that the fact there were gay is just a huge coincidence?
Did the Paris attackers happen to dislike Heavy Metal or pick a target with lots of people?
Soccer! You left out the soccer match at le Stade, nbcguy54ACTUAL! Soccer!
Did the Paris attackers hate soccer, too?
Hey, its called Football Miss….
Or maybe they got mad people were using “Soccer” in Paris and attacked because of that? I’m sure Lars would think that logical.
Islam, Lars-you can say it out loud without using the euphemism “religion”. They might kick you out of club Prog, but you’ll have the satisfaction of having told the truth.
I don’t believe that Islam is the only religion that call for violence against the LGBT community.
So I am not using a euphemism. I blame intolerant religions in general.
You really don’t think that the specific religious beliefs of this person his particular actions?
You have a curious view of causality.
“…of this person influenced his…”
We really need an edit button.
I think his religion directed his hate and violence.
Yes.
What’s that religion called again Lars? Can you honestly not bring yourself to call it by name?
The party line does not allow Lars to speak it by name, just bunch together “religion” in one basket.
Well, I haven’t seen any of the following go into a violent bullet-slinging ‘roid rampage, and they all come under the single heading of CHRISTIANS:
Catholics, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Holy Rollers, Mormons, Anabaptists, Coptics, Rastafarians,
Zoroastrians, Greek Orthodoctrians, Russian Orthodoctrians, Pentacostals,
nor have I seen that happen with any of those non-denominational sorts like
Orthodox or Reformed Jews,
Pastafarians,
Wiccans, Agnostics, Deists, Taoists, Hindus, or Druids (Reformed or Orthodox)
There is a branch of Buddhists that advocate fighting back, but they may not have sat the za-zen lately.
So using religion as an excuse to commit a heinous act, which is what this asshole did, is as despicable as you can get. And that is exactly what he did.
Give me a break. I have no issue with saying Islam was the primary factor that gave direction to his violence and hate. I am just not willing to buy into the delusion that Islam is the only religion that does that. And I glad reject the idea that trying to lump all Muslims together legally and politically will increase our national security or benefit the public good.
*flat reject
Right wing zealots are still the real killerstory we should be concerned about, right sir?
Only? No.
Worldwide leader? Yes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/los-angeles-gay-pride-arrest_us_575da27fe4b0ced23ca85716
Oops.
“Despite an earlier report from Santa Monica’s police chief, the man did not indicate he was targeting LA’s PRIDE festivities, only that he intended to go to the event.”
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/West-Hollywood-LA-Pride-Parade-382614931.html
Taylor can’t be bothered to fact-check and do his homework before running his yap, 68W58. He’s Taylor the Infallible.
He also can’t be bothered with silly things like facts. Or by petty little details like correcting himself when he’s wrong.
Commissar admit that he’s wrong? PERISH THE THOUGHT, he’d faint as his head imploded.
http://www.larstaylor.com/ithink.therefore.iam.allknowing/.wtf
Lol.
“L. Taylor says:
June 12, 2016 at 8:29 pm
I don’t believe that Islam is the only religion that call for violence against the LGBT community.
So I am not using a euphemism. I blame intolerant religions in general.”
http://theatheistconservative.com/2016/02/29/title-2/
http://theatheistconservative.com/communism-is-secular-christianity/
Funny how communism is an intolerant religion, yet you say we have nothing to fear of communists… or be intolerant of them.
Fuck off, you twit.
According to the freak some are calling our president (small p) this wart on the butt of humanity must have forgotten he is a member of a PEACEFUL religion! 50 were killed 53 wounded, and not one, NOT ONE was armed! how many would have been saved? YOU PROUD OF YOURSELVES FLORIDA/
This story is far more tragic than currently being reported.
Give it 3 or 4 more days or so!
Out!
What have you heard, Master Chief?
Anyhow, notwithstanding the buzzing I just heard, I was curious as to what Bernie the Old Commie, Wide Load, and Trump had to say. The Old Commie blamed guns. Trump commented at 8:07 EST with an appropriate message. Wide Load slept in and was beaten to the punch. Her tweet first Tweet came at 9:20. Someone on her staff noted that she only tweeted in English! OMG! So, she repeated her message at 9:52 in Spanish! Wide Load wins this round. She is the pc queen.
Unrelated arrest. But similar motives.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/los-angeles-gay-pride-arrest_us_575da27fe4b0ced23ca85716
So where is the outrage against the radical Islamic terrorists for murdering our fellow Americans?
The motives of this enemy are far beyond killing homosexuals Lars. They desire to exterminate the West, including you.
And the police updated the story to indicate they were misquoted. He said he was only attending the event, not going there to attack them.
From his picture, he looks a little off mentally though, so who knows what the story will be.
The muzzie shooter went for the trifecta. Soft target, Americans, and gay. Maybe he figured he’d get 72 raisins x 3. I thank God on a daily basis that I never had to rely on your intel. Stupid bastard.
Some democratic politician is directly blaming Congress for their refusal to pass strict gun control laws.
This would have stopped a licensed, armed security guard from obtaining a semi-automatic rifle how?
You mean Senator Chris Murphy?
As a voter from the (failing/failed) State of Konnectikut I apologize for him polluting the airwaves.
My deepest sympathies go out to the community of Orlando and those effected by this tragedy.
I wish I had a crystal ball to see what someone else sees. It must be wonderful to have all of the answers and to be so smug and secure in one’s special knowledge. Me? I have to wait and see whether the Muslim terrorist was himself gay; whether he was familiar with Pulse from prior visits; whether he targeted the place b/c it was a very soft target with little likelihood he would be stopped by a bullet before he was able to do his deed; whether he was instructed to hit the particular place or chose it on his own; whether this and whether that. Yes, I wish I knew all that at least one person here knows.
Personally, AirCav,I think he made himself part of the gay community so that he could find a soft target and picked one that was very popular and would be likely to have a heavy crowd on the eve of a gay pride party.
Worthwhile theory. Identify your target, infiltrate, collect intelligence, etc etc.
We will get the answer that is best for Barry’s agenda. It might not necessarily be the full truth however…
If I see another liberal post on facebook referencing “military grade weapons” I will vote for Trump! I swear! One more andand I will do it!
military grade weapons
military grade weapons
military grade weapons
military grade weapons
Glock pistol.
AR-15 style rifle.
Shiny bullets.
The horror!!! (which BTW were Marlon Brando’s last words in Apocalypse Now)
There’s also “assault rifle” and “assault-style” rifle.
I’ve already popped a cork on Facebook about that.
How many non-shooters know where the term came from the the first place? I know a guy I used to work with, a gun owner, who still used that phrase referring to AR-15s.
P.S. Can we start using the phrase “military-grade stupid” about some of the folks in DC?
Only “some”?
Does it have to be posted on FB? If not, here you go: The terrorist used military grade weapons. How did this happen? How?
That do it?
Dang you!
Read any Kratman yet? Sometimes target selection is more than just target selection huh.
It must be terribly unsettling and quite disappointing to review these comments and find not one to screech “Nazi!” or “fascist!” in response. What to do? Well, the disappointed one might try instigating others to write something ill-thought and inappropriate. If he succeeds, he can then satisfy his need to screech and think himself a prize winner of some perverted and twisted sort. Such a person has more in common with the Westboro Baptist Church and Muslim jihadists than he can ever know, let alone admit to himself.
Last call: this subject is going to be a major issue for a while. None of the pandering leftnuts want to say those dreadful words ‘islamic terrorist’, because they’ll lose votes. That’s the Cynic in me coming to the surface.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-florida-shooting-trump-twitter-idUSKCN0YY0QY?il=0
So is what Trump saying a clarion call, or is he just running off at the mouth?
Stay tuned.
One of the survivors said “You ever seen how Marine guys hold big weapons, shooting from left to right? That’s how he was shooting at people”. (i.e., spray and pray, like a civilian with no military training).
The attacker was never a Marine. He was a homophobic security guard who inexplicably lived in West Palm Beach. That’s like hating Black people and living in Harlem or Compton.
He was also bipolar and on steroids rather than meds. No statement so far from the White House about whether we want to live in a world full of ‘roid-rage…
Well, he probably walked past a couple of Marine recruiting stations, so that makes former military. Just the same as it makes Hillary qualified to be CINC.
Sad.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/12/florida-nightclub-shooter-had-made-threats-in-past-reports-claim.html
Terrorism or “hate crime”? Seems pretty clear to me. Do the math for yourself.
Here’s more, Petraeus says we need to “self-censor” ourselves [SPEW ALERT]
https://pjmedia.com/homeland-security/2016/05/17/petraeus-self-censor-to-avoid-offending-muslims/
The more I hear from the guy these days, the more I’m thinking “fishing for a pardon and a future appointment”.
Ditto, IMHO he’s kissing liberal ass at full throttle.
Negative. He’s gone full Linda Lovelace.
So, a Dutch woman is in a club in Qatar and is having drinks. She wakes up in a strange apartment and believes that she had been drugged and raped. So, she reports just that crimes to police, whereupon she is promptly arrested, charged with being drunk and having illicit sex (i.e., sex outside of marriage.) Also charged is the alleged rapist. They were just tried. He is to receive 100 lashes for having sex with her and another 40 for drinking. No mention of rape was made at trial. She was fined, got a suspended sentence, and is to be booted from Qatar. If she had been Muslim, which she is not, she could have received a prison sentence of five years. Back in 2013, a Norwegian woman had a similar experience in the UAE. She reported by raped and was arrested. She wasn’t as lucky as the Dutch woman. The Norwegian received a 16-moth prison sentence, later commuted by the king. Tell me again how insensitive we are Mr. Petraeus, you mealy-mouthed POS. (I have grown to despise that guy.)
In other Muslim peace and tolerance news, a woman was arrested in Pakistan, where Islam is the state religion, for tying her 17-year old daughter to a cot, pouring kerosene on her, and setting her ablaze. The girl’s crime? She eloped. Sounds like something Mr. Petraeus would not personally approve of but wouldn’t dare mention. It might offend Muslims or Pakistanis or someone.
Tomato, Tomahto D.
Sigh. This is just UFB. I never thought Petraeus would be an ass kisser, but apparently, HRC must have more shit on him and she somehow manages to keep her own “above the law status.”
Not really too concerned about offending any member of the cult of the perpetually offended.
How many times am I going to shut down the liberals and their whining about gun control, the NRA, etc…? It’s Terrorism, stupid! How does the FBI get away with not deporting this guy? How does an employer deny complaints that the guy was clearly against anyone who was not of his origins?
To whit: How does the San Bernardino accomplice get away without being charged? Because a DHS employee protected him and SHE gets promoted– not fired for her lawbreaking. I am just so tired of this shit. Really. 64 people are dead because radical extremists had a blind eye turned. Get them ALL OUT. This is why we can’t have ANY Muslims here. Period.
Um, pretty sure I read he was born in NYC. “Deport” doesn’t apply.
Sure it does, I have been trying to talk Canada into annexing New Yuck for years, but they aren’t quite liberal enough yet!
Tell them we’re still keeping California, see if that changes their mind?
They won’t take Justin Bieber back
Well, who would want to?
CBS News had a break-in story at about 1130. The female reporter announced that Mateen had just recently legally purchased his ‘fully automatic’ weapon(s). I guess that whole ATF approval thingee required for the purchase of a fully automatic weapon is beyond their understanding. It’s also very difficult to obtain such approval. I’m thinking the assertion may be intentional as it resonates well with the uneducated liberal masses and furthers the liberal agenda. CBS may not want the facts to interfere with a story. There may be an update this afternoon in which it will be revealed Mateen purchased the weapon(s) directly from the NRA.
He was given the fully automatic weapon for signing up a lifetime NRA membership.
That and a box of raisins.
Yeah – that’ll sound good on tonite’s news…
Yeah, that was the deal I got too.
Like HRH HRC’s promise to close “the gun show loop hole” that exists only in hyperbole – and network news copy.
“President Obama said Monday it appears Mateen was inspired by extremist information disseminated over the Internet…” And then there’s this: “But Saddique may have also contributed to Omar’s worldview. Born in Afghanistan, Saddique is an eccentric pro-Taliban activist who produced an online video critical of homosexuality just hours after Mateen’s attack.” Saddique is the father of the jihadist. So, which one is likely, that Mateen was inspired to wanton murder by stuff he read on the internet or that he was raised by a terrorist sympathizer and became a terrorist? Games. Bullshit games. It would be funny if the games weren’t costing lives.
There’s your answer: ban the internet!!
Did the MSM mention the 911 call that little turd made right before the attack?
I think he made the 9-1-1 call DURING the attack.
He called 3 times. once and hung up, once in the middle of the attack and one towards the end with an extremist diatribe saying he was swearing loyalty to ISIS and standing with other islamic extremist douchebags doing bad things.
Yeah, but given that, let’s not jump to conclusions and blame Islam, the religion of peace.
Word.
We really don’t want to hurt any feelings now do we?
Religion of peace, cocksuckers.
I actually don’t view this as political correctness, but rather just waiting to see what the primary motivation was – and I honestly don’t think we know enough yet to say what that was with any certainty.
Was the guy a Muslim? Be all accounts, yes. But was he a practicing Muslim? And even if so, was he one that really subscribed to the ISIS ideology? I mean, there were Muslims donating blood in Florida to save lives the other day – there are different kinds of Muslims, even if you subscribe to the understandable notion that Islam has a problem.
However, describing this as Islamic (because he’s a Muslim) terrorism (because he caused terror) is using words in a way that might not best describe the scenario.
What if, as some reports now say, he was gay, and frequented that club often, but wasn’t very successful at it? If the root cause of his actions was simply that he was a disturbed, rejected asshole and he shot up a bunch of peers, the fact that he’s Islamic is still true but of less relevance to the overall nature of the crime.
And to borrow phrasing from another TAH post, these things are ‘non-binary’ – it could’ve been this asshole was deranged, intent on causing harm, and sought out an ideology that justified his planned actions. In this case, it speaks to the notion that ISIS / Islamic fundamentalism has the capability to draw such people in, and they might swear allegiance to it, but it’s still debatable as to the causative influence here.
Long story short, I know people want answers -and someone to blame?- but I see no major harm done in letting the pieces fall where they may over the course of a few days and getting a clear picture of things before stating definitively what this was. Does it make any sort of marked difference if we label this ‘Islamic terrorism’ on day one versus day three?
Co-workers have stated that he would whip out his magic carpet many times a day and pray I say he was a practicing/active muslim.
There is also electronic evidence to show contact with a couple of radical local muslim types.
I guess for me, it still comes down to what his primary motivation was. Let’s consider two scenarios with this asshole:
1) He’s a practicing Muslim who, for whatever reason, struggles with the idea of homosexuality and starts connecting with radical Muslims who introduce him to ISIS’s theology and prod him toward action. In this scenario, no question, he’s an Islamic terrorist because his actions (terrorism) were motivated by his Islamic beliefs.
1) He’s been mentally unhinged for some years, beating his ex-wife, wrestling with his own sexuality, and can’t handle the constant rejection of men at a gay club he frequents. He decides he’s had enough, fuck those guys, he’s going to show them! He’s already planning something, and in his anger he starts connecting with radical Islamic thinking, and then commits this horrible crime. In this case, I don’t think the root cause is Islamic ideology, even if that is something he ultimately identified with and used as a ‘justification’.
To further break that down, let’s say the first scenario is 90% due to ISIS ideology and 10% because he’s already a whackjob. In the second, maybe it’s much close – 40% ISIS ideology and 60% because he was a whackjob?
I’m not a PC type; there’s obviously a question that needs to be asked about the way ISIS can attract mentally unsound or disaffected types. But if the latter case is true, it’s more accurate to say the cause was mental instability than Islam, even if, admittedly, it’s perhaps most accurate to say it’s largely mental
instability and partly Islamic teachings.
Since the story is still developing, my perspective is we’re not yet able to assign those percentages of likelihood well enough, and thus there’s no harm in letting things unfold before we label it. Again, do we gain anything by saying it’s Islamic terrorism on day one, as opposed to waiting until we have a solid sense of his motivations and then saying it?
It’s also possible that his frequent visits to Pulse were nothing but “target selection and reconnaissance”, and that a desire to engage in radical Islamic terrorism was 100% of his motivation.
The man reportedly was frequently observed disparaging both blacks and women. Islamic fundamentalists are well-known regarding their mistreatment of women and distain for women wearing Western garb, which they find sinful. From there, wife-beating is a short step; racial prejudice (American blacks are also almost all Infidels, remember) isn’t much more of a step.
You’re bending over backwards to avoid acknowledging the obvious possibility: the terrorist bastard was simply a radicalized Muslim who freely chose to engage in a heinous and barbarous act of terrorism against innocents in order to support expansion of the Ummah, with the selection of a gay nightclub during “Pride Week” merely designed to ensure greater coverage for his act by the press. Frankly, that appears to be true regardless of his sexual orientation or underlying motivations.
It’s absolutely possible. And I hadn’t heard of his disdain for black people. But that’s my point – I’m not bending over backwards to acknowledge the obvious possibility of him simply being a radicalized Muslim. There’s a good possibility of that. But there’s no need to rush to declare it as such until we have enough of an understanding of his motives.
My point was simply that waiting to declare this an act of Islamic terrorism doesn’t necessarily mean someone is being PC or afraid of offending Muslims. We should wait until we have sufficient evidence on the root cause. If, after that evidence surfaces, this was primary driven by the man’s Islamic beliefs, it should be called as such. What’s the harm in that?
“What if, as some reports now say, he was gay, and frequented that club often, but wasn’t very successful at it? If the root cause of his actions was simply that he was a disturbed, rejected asshole and he shot up a bunch of peers, the fact that he’s Islamic is still true but of less relevance to the overall nature of the crime.”
Okay, let’s say (as I speculated to the fly) that he was gay and that he was conflicted, perhaps engaged in self loathing. In Islam, he found a way to project that hatred in a way that would not have him dismissed as a nutjob but, rather, as a martyr for the cause. In other words, he found a way to commit mass murder and, at the same time, be applauded by some of his fellow Muslims for his dastardly act as a blow against not only infidels but gay infidels. Is there another religion in which that would be true?
I don’t disagree with you – I think we need to stop being so PC and look at the proliferation of ISIS’s style of Islam and how that’s being used by nutjobs to justify murder, torture, etc. There is a problem with Islam, though I imagine you and I might disagree on the specifics.
But, as I said above in a different reply here, for me what we label this act depends largely on the motivations the shooter had. And I think there isn’t yet enough known to firmly say that his Islamic beliefs were the primary cause of these actions. Did they play a role? Probably. And if they were the primary motivation, I have no problem calling it what it is. But I don’t see much harm in waiting to see how things develop, too, as stories change rapidly in the initial few days.
Another way to put your point, I think, is to ask whether, in the total absence of Islam from his life, would he have committed mass murder? We will never know the answer to that question with certainty. What we do know is that he did it and that he was Muslim who associated in some fashion with terrorists, that he was in Saudi twice, that he was interviewed by the FBL two times (how many times has anyone here been interviewed, outside of employment needs?)and that his act was celebrated by Islamic terrorists.
Okay, but answer this: if it is NOT an act of Islamic terrorism, then why did ISIS/Daesh claim ‘credit’ for it within a few hours of the news release?
This actually doesn’t surprise me in the least. If a meteor struck a city in the US tomorrow, ISIS would claim it was because they prayed to Allah and he made it happen.
It’s a fairly standard operating procedure for terrorist groups to claim credit for anything that is in line with their mission. It makes them appear bigger, more capable and more active than they are, which helps with recruits and morale.
So I take their claim with a grain of salt. If there’s evidence of it, beyond a claim, then that changes the equation, obviously.
Also, for what it’s worth, apparently the culprit previously claimed to be a member of Hezbollah and claimed he was friends with the Tsaernav brothers – these weren’t true, but they’re examples of people claiming things to appear to be ‘more’ than they really were. It also makes me incredibly angry that this asshole had a resume of such claims and wasn’t more closely watched, but that’s a whole different story…
Did ISIS claim credit for Sandy Hook, too? I think what’s missing is the Muslim factor, LC. I agree that ISIS will claim a connection to most any act of terror but only if the terrorist is Muslim. As for meteors, that would be explained as Allah’s will, of course. So, ISIS recruits, trains, guides, and supplies Muslims to commit acts of terror and we debate whether this particular act of terror or that one properly can be assigned to them? There seems to be something wrong with that picture.
I think that’s a fair point – they’re willing to claim anything that’s likely perpetrated by a Muslim, sure. But let me step back and take a high level look at why I think how we label this is important. And in truth, it has nothing to do with the label itself – there’s no question that ISIS is a horrible, deplorable bunch of assholes that need to be wiped out. Attaching their name to this crime doesn’t suddenly make them go from ‘mildly bad’ to ‘horrendously bad’ – they’re already probably the worst group of people I can think of. What does matter is how and why this was done, as that informs our response to it. By way of analogy, let’s say a man is fighting cancer and develops a fever, so he goes to his oncologist and says he’s not feeling well. Now, there’s a good chance the cancer plays a role here, right? I mean, fuck, it’s cancer – that’s some bad shit, and it messes people up system-wide. But the treatment the doctor prescribes will depend heavily on whether the cancer is the primary cause of the fever, or if the fever is simply an opportunistic infection taking advantage of the cancer. Labeling every symptom as cancer-related doesn’t help; we need to understand the pathology of this latest issue, and treat it accordingly. In terms of national security, our response to this -shifting of intelligence resources, say- will likely depend a lot on how and why this happened. If he was converted to radical Islam a while back, and stayed under the radar for a long time, having material support and direct contact with ISIS operatives, that’ll be a different response from if he were a mentally ill sort with no direct connections to ISIS and simply heard about them in the media and declared allegiance. One isn’t ‘better’ than the other, but there is a distinction in methods that speaks to where our own efforts in combating this are potentially failing. I want to understand the pathology of this attack so I know better… Read more »
So, do we need to “take more time to understand the motive” of the “fine but misunderstood young man” in France who yesterday stabbed one policeman to death, then took the slain policeman’s wife/partner (also a police officer) and son hostage – and afterwards slit the lady’s throat? Even when, like the Pulse terrorist bastard, the French terrorist bastard told police he was doing so in support of Daesh?
And, by the way: Daesh are pikeres compared to the Khmer Rouge. The Khmer Rouge offed an estimated 2 million after they took over in Cambodia – or roughly 1 in 4 persons in the country.
Frankly, LC, I can think of FAR worse groups than ISIS. They haven’t achieved the level of inglorious basterdy that the Nazis reached, nor have they even barely approached the viciousness of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, or the Japanese prior to and during WWII.
“Grown adults who believe that an iron age war lord climbed onto a winged horse with a human head an flew into the heavens…”
I just love that particular story, but for different reasons. According to the Koran Mohammed then met all the other prophets, before ascending to talk privately with God. Now remember, that is God the almighty, all-knowing and all-powerful and he tells Mohammed to have his followers pray so many times a day (I want to say 50, but it really doesn’t matter except that it was a lot). Mohammed then descends to talk with the other prophets who ask what God told him and when he tells them they all argue that that is too many prayers. So Mo goes back up and dickers with God over this and is told a reduced number (25, I think, again-doesn’t really matter). Still too many say the prophets, so Mo goes back up and gets God down to five times a day. Now, you’d think that the supreme being would know what a reasonable number of prayers would be, but apparently not. Anyway, I think we should return to the practice of calling Islam “Mohameddanism”, because that’s what it actually is.
Negotiated Salvation. Ya, thats the rest of story. Nothing wrong with reading it and contemplating its value or using it to do some reflection about life itself.
Its a book, nothing magical or all that special about it. Neither is the Bible. Take the good and teach the absurdity of the rest.
Too many acts of violence are being done because of Mo’s delusions of grandeur.
Mind control of the illiterate is a strange thing, isn’t it?
Yes Mistress
I’m at work and can’t give you a reply of any worth at the moment. I’ll try later. I think we’re in considerable agreement, but perhaps disagree with the best course of action.
OH, crap! I left out the 20 million++ Russians who were slaughtered at the behest of Joseph Stalin. The mass graves have been under discovery since 1990.
Try harder, LC.
This dorkwad was a borderline psychotic who used ISIS as a crutch to vent his anger about some amorphous ‘something’ on other people. Get over yourself. You’re far too naive to understand this crapazoid mindset.
More like 60M offed by the Soviets between 1917 and 1987, Ex-PH2. And you missed the biggest of them all: Mao. The PRC under Mao is estimated to have offed, via deliberate government policy, nearly 76M.
Economy of style, Hobo!
Stop calling him Hobo! My Viagra will disappear again.
What? No Pol Pot? He earned his spot on the list.
Of course Stalin studied to be a Priest. He had an inside track on controlling people.
See my comments above – I covered the Khmer Rouge.
In raw numbers, the Khmer Rouge only killed about 2M. Of course, that was 25% of the population of Cambodia at the time.
Pol Pot targeted not just different religions as differences, but education, science and medicine too. Pol Pot’s Khmer Rouge were composed of Buddhists and Pol Pot himself was a communist and Theravada Buddhist.
He, like Stalin was educated by religious zealots. He attended both Catholic and Buddhist schools.
Religion had damn near nothing, if not nothing, to do with the Khmer Rouge genocide, DH. Pol Pot and his cronies were trying to create a “pure communist” agrarian state in Cambodia by skipping a number of doctrinaire intermediate stages. They were also trying to “purify” Cambodia of foreign influences and achieve self-sufficiency.
They persecuted damn near anyone who wasn’t of Khmer ethnicity, with particular attention on those having Vietnamese or Thai ancestry and those having Western education. The former was due to history – Cambodia had historically been terminated periodically as an independent state by conquest by either Vietnam or Thailand. The latter was due to their desire to create a pure Cambodian state that was both self-sufficient and free of “foreign contamination” – much like North Korea’s inane juche policy of today.
If someone had Vietnamese or Thai ancestry, or had a Western education, the fact that they were Buddhist/Catholic/whatever didn’t mean squat. Because of their ancestry or education they were in deep sh!t.
I’m not positive, but I believe Democratic Kampuchea (Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge) was also officially atheist. Best I can tell, Pol Pot was personally about as religious as Lenin or Stalin. He used it as a tool – nothing more, and nothing less.
I’d like to throw this out there if for no other reason but to get us look at this at another angle.
This IS all about religion, but more specifically how certain groups within a given religious sect view things. Other than the organization and need for world domination, I’m not seeing much difference between how ISIS interprets Islam and how anti-abortionists, anti-gay, and the like interpret Christianity. Both groups use violence and their own twisted definitions of their respective religions to advance their beliefs.
In America, abortion clinic bombers and shooters are labeled “mentally incompetent” and hauled off to the looney bin. Islamic bombers and shooters are labeled terrorists. Both groups, in my mind are religious terrorists that should to be dealt with the same way. They both present a viable threat to our country.
We should not separate terroristic acts from religion but be able to cull the religious zealots from the overall herds.
Just something to chew on….
“Other than the organization and need for world domination, I’m not seeing much difference between how ISIS interprets Islam and how anti-abortionists, anti-gay, and the like interpret Christianity.” What you put aside as “other than” is all the difference in the world. There are isolated instances of murderers who target abortionists and, invariably, they are Christian. There are isolated instances of gays being murdered for being gay but their murderers do not kill in the name of Christianity. If this is common, it is wholly unknown to me. As for organized violence and Christian denominations, I know of none. Even Westboro Church crazies don’t commit gross acts of violence. There is only one religion that advocates, commits, and foments violence in the name of their religion, with the blessings of their religious leaders: Islam. That is far different than individual Christians deep ending and committing murder.
I’ll point out one other obvious difference, 2/17 Air Cav. The proportion of radical-crazy-intolerant bigots who perpetrate acts of violence in Christian/Buddhist/Hindu/Jewish/virtually any other organized religion outside Islam is a tiny fraction of 1%. They’re shunned by the vast majority of adherents to their claimed religion.
In Islam, that proportion appears to be far larger – perhaps as large as 5-10%. And there appears to be at least a large minority within mainstream Islam who sympathize with and/or silently support them.
Army of God. Aryan Nation. KKK.
A Google search of Christian “terrorist” groups will pull up an interesting bit of info. But Hondo is correct in that the “non-Islam” connected terrorism seems to be quite tiny in proportion to the Islamic based actions.
My point is that religious zealots aren’t confined to the Islamic side of the world. We need to keep an eye on these groups too…
No religion/ethnicity/race/creed has a monopoly on intolerant, bigoted idiots. But some do seem to spawn more, percentage-wise, than the worldwide average.
I agree that violent religious zealots are not confined to Islam. The next time a non-Muslim straps on a suicide vest and runs into a crowd or flies a plane into a building with the objective of taking it down, let me know.
Well, there was that German airline pilot who tried to knock down the Alps with a commercial airliner. But he was also batsh!t crazy and shouldn’t have been allowed to fly.
But, as I recall, he didn’t do his deed in furtherance of any religious objective.
You’re right – the German guy was crazy, not motivated by religion. But I don’t believe you actually specified that the act had to be for a “religious purpose” above. The second statement simply says that you wanted to know the next time it happened. (smile)
Millions have been killed by Christians and in the name of Christianity during the past decade alone. The press in this country does not cover it. Google some information about central Africa. It goes unspoken of in the western world.
Look, the vast majority of western Christians put the rule of civil law above the teaching of any violence or domination preached in the Bible.
They take the good, moral, thoughtful, and compassionate teachings and promote that part of what the Bible says. Nothing wrong with that, admirable and honorable.
We will always have loons that gather a following of some kind. Atheist loons are no different. I deal with them daily.
What makes our way of living so different is our responsibility to stand up and defend the beliefs of those we disagree with. We have a right to believe as we wish, we are protected from getting too carried away with them by the Constitution.
I should point out, Islam preaches that civil law is pointless. Sharia law is the ultimate law. Islam is Gods final word, all other law must conform to it.
Ah, but when Atheist loons take over, the result can be spectacularly bad.
The USSR and the PRC were officially atheist. They offed 60+M and 76+M of their own citizens, respectively – in the 20th Century alone, and that did not include war casualties. They treated everyone outside of the Party rather like crap as well.
The spectacular nature of atrocities committed by loons of any kind are horrific.
The fight is against those who mandate control over freedom.
Agreed.
Some limits – “controls”, if you will – on public conduct are necessary. Under the rule of law, those limits can be both acceptable and manageable.
But when those limits begin to approach authoritarian dictatorship, you have a serious problem.
Yep, the right of dissent can never be silenced in a free society.
As Jefferson wrote, he was more concerned with becoming deft to dissent than mute to his own speech.
“Millions have been killed by Christians and in the name of Christianity during the past decade alone.” What? That Christians have been killing other Christians is beyond question. It’s that part about “in the name of Christianity” that I don’t get. Central Africa? Millions? Seriously?
Yeah, I’d also like to see documentation of that. Could be the case, but I’m having a hard time believing that our current MSM would turn a blind eye to that kind of story – it fits the agenda to a “T”.
Well, I did Google some information on Central Africa as DH suggested. The number I saw was 6,000, but that was from last August.
And, if I read it correctly, the Muslims started it.
Doesn’t count. Christians defending themselves don’t count. Christians defending themselves against other Christians don’t count either. The only parallel would be Christians killing in the name of Christianity. Today. In Central Africa. (I will also accept last Tuesday, five years ago last Tuesday, and I’ll widen it to the whole of Africa.)
No disagreement here. And 6,000 is a little shy of millions, but maybe things picked up during Lent this year.
Well, that number was from last August. Maybe things picked up during Lent.
Double-posted. Darned Internet!
So, I laughed twice.
I know this seems kind of silly, but I have this urge to find a KKKer or a neo-Nazi and ask him/her/it if they still think *Jews* are trying to take over the world.
But that’s just me.
Stupid question, but my search engine can’t seem to find the answer: How did this guy get a rifle and what had to be dozens of magazines of ammo into the club?
I would need both hands just to pull out my ID.
The ammo would be fairly easy. Last time I checked, some AR-15 mags can hold 30 rounds. Larger capacity ones are available.
It’s possible the individual at the door (if there was anyone at the door) crapped his pants and ran when he saw the guy show up with a rifle. If he wasn’t armed I can’t say I blame him.
Foxnews.com reported today that the wife of the scum killer in Orlando knew of his plans and did nothing. Did. Nothing.
That is what they are reporting.
TownHall.com has reported some ACLU lawyers are saying that “the Christian right is responsible for the Orlando shootings”.
Well, hell, the reasoning was right before us all this time and we were too stupid to see it.
I’m glad the liberals are smarternme and can splain stuff to me.