Emil Limpert and the VA
A number of you folks sent us the links to the story of Emil Limpert, a World War II veteran who says he was injured during the war in the Pacific and he finally went to the VA to see if he could get some help. Fox2 says the he enlisted the help of AMVETS to submit to the Department of Veterans’ Affairs his documentation, but the VA says that they can’t find a record of his service;
Limpert, a bit of a packrat, saved all his old paperwork. He had his discharge papers, a roster of those injured in the attack, and the X-ray taken of his leg after he returned home. On top of that he had the two bronze stars and the purple heart he earned in combat.
All that information was, with the help of a veterans service group called AMVETS, was sent to the Veteran’s Administration to apply for benefits. After two months of waiting he received a letter from the VA saying he needed to provide more proof.
Fox News says that his records may have been lost in the 1973 fire. According to Hondo, that’s entirely possible. AMVETS can help Mr Limpert restore those records if he still has the copies of documents that he claims to have.
I tend to believe Mr Limpert. We all know that the VA has a hard time responding in a timely manner to real veterans. If he was a phony, they would have immediately awarded him 70 years of back pay.
Category: Veterans' Affairs Department
I watched his story on the Fox News channel this morning. Fortunately, they gave Mr. Limpert extensive coverage and were rightly sympathetic.
I agree, Jonn….it sounds and looks like a real Vet is getting the run around by the VA.
I found documents ONLINE that PROVE he was in the military but cannot figure out how to email to the news reporters.
The case looks pretty strong for Mr Limpert.
You would think that the VA would be looking for a case like this to help a real veteran and put a positive spin on the organization.
I guess not.
So, I read this story and the TV news story and I google “Emile Limpert 1943,” guessing that there aren’t too many Emil Limperts and that something from 1943 may come up, a rather significant year for military enlistments. The first hit comes up from a site called “mooseroots.com” and this is its only entry– NAME Emil C Limpert Saint Louis Missouri– ENLISTMENT DETAILS February 26, 1943– RANK Private– AGE GROUP 21-25. Below that info is this: DATA SOURCES US National Archives
The reporter did a lousy job, as reporters usually do. This should be a relative snap to remedy but, unfortunately, finding archived draft-board and unit records (if they haven’t been destroyed) takes a great deal of time.
Per 2/17 Air Cav
“The reporter did a lousy job, as reporters usually do. This should be a relative snap to remedy but, unfortunately, finding archived draft-board and unit records (if they haven’t been destroyed) takes a great deal of time.”
The reporter did their job. They told the story of the man having difficulties dealing with the VA. Done. It is not their responsibility to do the research on the man that he could have done himself or the VA could have done himself.
You mistake my characterization of the reporter’s lousy job by assuming that I meant that the reporter should have done the legwork to confirm or corroborate the Veteran’s account. I did not mean that at all. Instead, I meant that the reporter’s job in writing the story sucks. In other words, it was a slipshod piece of work.
Seems you just have a beef with reporters in general.
How would YOU have written the story?
The reporter approached the 5 Ws and let the interviewee tell his story along with the son, Terry, speak up as well. The story showed the man displaying his paperwork and Emil talked about how they provided the documentation and at the end, the reporter, standing in front of the Jefferson Barracks VA center said the VA would not comment unless Emil signed a release for them to do so (common place for the VA).
Did you watch the video story or just read the (albeit) shitty transcript of the video that was available on the news channels website. Such a transcript does not actually convey the story in it’s entirety.
Oh please. Are you a journalism major? And, yes, absolutely, I have a disdain for reporters generally. I have this crazy expectation that paid writers write well.
Just as I expected.
It would BEHOOVE you to actually watch the original video story.
I’m happy I didn’t disappoint you. And, say, why did you place the word behoove in all caps?
Asking about behoove? Exactly how long have you been out?
Okay, this has been a curious aside, but it has run its course. Try horseshoes. Good luck.
Kinda figured you’d cop out like that.
“No man, I majored in Journalism, it was easier.” — Joe Namath responding to a journalist who asked him if he majored in Basket Weaving at Alabama.
Cav, WooGuy got poo pie for brain.
Yeah, that’s why I’m not engaging him–proving that I really do have a heart, after all.
Disagree. How many times have people on this site gone after reporters who reported on a shitbag without even being curious if that guy or gals story was remotely true.
This story may very well be true but the reporter should dig and dig on it to try and verify this guys claims.
Not sure if you have an Ancestry.com account but it has a powerful search function as well. In my misspent youth I met an older man who claimed to be a WWI veteran. When I searched for him on Ancestry.com, I was able to actually look at a copy of his draft registration he signed on June 5, 1917, upon which he had listed his prior service and rank. George McBlair, Sergeant – Artillery, Virginia State Militia, 4 yrs. (His father-in-law was a Confederate Naval Hero of some renown I guess, but he never mentioned that to me personally.)
To SGT. George McBlair and his generation. You are not forgotten.
His information is on Ancestry. Start here:
http://interactive.ancestry.com/1143/32860_244937-00061/33965983?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.com%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=32860_244937-00059
That will be Image #7 in the series, which states the transport vessel, the date.
Next image, #8, shows ship USS LCI(L) 1076, “The following men of 163rd Inf., 41st Div received 3/6/1945 trans to shore 3/10/1945
Company C”.
And then on next image, #9, scroll down to Name #69. Limpert, Emil C Pfc. 37604482
I don’t think the military lets just anyone on a troop transport ship if they weren’t actually in the military.
Newspaper clipping showing Mr Limpert bought a house under the Veterans Emergency Housing Act. Story says builder overcharged him and another vet, and govt went after builder.
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4258678/veteran_emil_limpert_bought_a_house/
Here’s a clipping with him listed on a casualty list, from the St Louis Post-Dispatch August 1, 1944:
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4258758/in_war_casualty_list_proof_emil/
Matches what I saw on the news. He was wounded in May 24 in New Guinea, not the Phillipines and was awarded the PH in September. In fairness to the VA, don’t think they never claimed/wrote that he never served. That came from Mr. Limpert. Again, it may be possible the family forgot to submit his Discharge papers and the General Orders for his PH…or someone in the VA was expecting a DD 214, which as Hondo mentioned, did not exist in the 1940s. Am sure there is more to this story than we have privy. Just my opinion. Thanks for the newspaper article.
Well, this is interesting. That means he was getting some sort of Veterans benefit in 1949. So again, there may be more to the VA/Limpart story that we are not aware. Just my 2 cents.
This comment is about the home he bought. For some reason, it did not post below to the article that m sent about Limpert’s home.
Well, let me play devil’s advocate here.
If Limpert is applying for benefits based on his status as a PH recipient, he has to show proof that he received one. Given the fact that he waited 70 years to apply for VA bennies, I’d guess that’s the case.
Purple Heart recipients qualify for VA medical benefits as members of Priority Group III – the same priority group for which former POWs and MoH recipients automatically qualify. That also comes with a waiver of many copayments.
If his discharge paperwork doesn’t show a PH, the VA may be simply asking him to show proof he actually received a PH. My guess is that’s what’s going on: the VA is asking him to document his PH, not his military service, and that got garbled in the story. A copy of his discharge paperwork would be sufficient to document his World War II military service.
If he has the original PH orders, documenting that he received a PH should be easy. If not – well, let’s say post-service X-rays taken several years later don’t exactly strike me as being absolute proof that a piece of metal in the body came from being injured in combat. Lots of other ways that could happen.
This may be simply a case of the VA doing exactly what it should do in every case: require proof of entitlement to VA benefits. Can’t really tell without more info.
Good point…I was assuming he had his PH/BS..AND the paperwork that went with them.
He should claim PTSD, not a physical combat wound, and the checks would start rolling in….I get that proof is needed and, as far as I am concerned, at 90 years of age and so long as there is some reasonable evidence that he is a WWII Veteran who served in the Pacific, pay him.
So, you’re supporting welfare these days, 2/17 Air Cav? Just “give him the money” regardless of whether or not he meets statutory/regulatory requirements, simply because “it seems reasonable that he likely served”?
I never thought you’d be an advocate for the “Free (Stuff) Army”.
Look, if the man qualifies he should get what he’s got coming to him from the VA. He may well qualify for both VA medical care (Pri Gp III as PH recipient), plus VA aid and assistance payments if his income is low enough vis-a-vis his and his wife’s living and medical expenses. But asking for the proof required by law and regulation – if that’s what’s happening here, as seems to me to be the case – is IMO hardly unreasonable.
I have always supported Welfare for people who truly need a helping hand for life’s basic necessities. This Veteran has a beef and it seems altogether plausible to me that he was wounded, that his wound was field dressed, and that he made no issue of the matter before now, because he now has a need for assistance. He is receiving red-tape form letters and he has my sympathy. That’s all. For a bureaucrat with the desire to see this situation rapidly and fully addressed, I believe that it can be. But someone in the VA has to borrow a give-a-shit and use it.
Sadly, you may be right that finding a supervisor at the VA with GaS factor higher than 10% could be difficult.
Hopefully this one gets resolved quickly. At age 90, quickly would be good.
As I said elsewhere: if he qualifies, I hope he gets everything he legitimately has coming to him.
And mea culpa. My use of the term “welfare” above was imprecise. The phrase “government giveaways” would have been a better choice of words.
I also have little problem with welfare when it’s temporary assistance for people who need it regarding basic necessities. But I do have a problem with the massive, long-term government giveaway programs that people qualify for simply by breathing, and which people use for years if not decades. These programs have IMO led to a huge dependency culture in the US today.
I’ve got a problem with that – and with me and my descendants being stuck with the bill for the same.
We all shoot too fast sometimes. No problem. I also know that you weren’t equating deserved VA benefits as welfare-state giveaways.
This happened to my grandfather who went ashore at Omahah, fought across France and had his back broken crossing into Germany. His records were lost and the only thing that proved he had a purple heart was an old photo of him at a military hospital in Europe or England wearing a robe issued by the military. A photo of him on the front lawn in pajamas and the robe with the hospital in the background. That photo was all it took to get the medical care he deserved in later life.
Here’s hoping that we have the occasional legit claim here. It would be a nice change of pace.
For what it’s worth, several family members did have records in “the fire.” It did not take long to reconstruct their records, between what they had personally, the pieces that may have been damaged in the fire but were not completely destroyed, and the redundant records kept elsewhere. Even years later.
Most vets keep their DD-214 (discharge paperwork) in a safe place. This guy submitted his DD-214 when he tried to get his VA card. This looks just like a typical VA snafu to me. Maybe when some higher ranking senator or congressman gets involved they can grease the skids to get this warrior his due. If Secretary McDonald or his deputy (Gibson)had any stones they would pick up the phone end all the crap slinging.
Retrop: if he was discharged before 1950, he doesn’t have a DD214 – the DD214 was first used in 1950. World War II vets who got out prior to 1950 have either a WD AGO form (Army) or a NAVPERS form (Navy/USMC) documenting their discharge instead of a DD214. Not sure what the USAF used between Sep 1947 and 1950.
It occurs to me that it’s also possible that the VA clerk who reviewed his application didn’t recognize his discharge paperwork because he’d never seen the old World War II version of the discharge paperwork before. An error like that shouldn’t happen, but it’s IMO fairly understandable – not that many World War II vets are making an initial application for VA benefits these days. In that case, it should also be be relatively quick and easy for the VA to fix the mistake.
I have my father’s records at the house and the USAF was using a WD form of some type; I don’t recall the nomenclature. I believe it was the same WD AGO the Army used.
If you dad’s service was WW2 he was in the Army, the USAF did not exist until 1947
Shane: while the USAF came into existence in 1947 (when DoD itself was established), the DD214 didn’t exist then. For a brief period (late 1947-1950), the USAF thus discharged people without using the DD214.
Use of the WD AGO forms would make sense, based on the USAF formerly having a part of the US Army. However, so would creation of a different form in the interim.
My guess is that they continued to use the WD AGO forms (I believe the Army did the same during that period, even though the “War Department” no longer existed.) However, I don’t know that to be a fact.
Bottom line: it’s entirely plausible that USAF personnel discharged between late 1947 and the adoption of the DD214 in 1950 received WD AGO forms as their discharge paperwork.
I thought it quite likely that the USAF continued to use the WD AGO form between creation in 1947 and adoption of the DD214 in 1950, 3E9. However, I did not know for certain either way – hence the “I don’t know what the USAF used” caveat above. Thanks for the update.
“If Secretary MacDonald or his his deputy ha any stones” – oh, Gawd, stop…yer killin’ me! Hard to type when I can’t breathe!
‘If he was a phony, they would have immediately awarded him 70 years of back pay.’
Too true, unfortunately, but let’s hope that this gets straightened out and he gets the help he’s requested. He doesn’t seem to be doing any grandstanding about what he did.
Well if it all turns out to be accurate I hope Mr. Limpert gets the help he needs.
If it turns out to be BS I still hope he gets what he needs, just not on my dime.
I searched the Ancestry.com database entitled “U.S. Army World War II Army Enlistment Records, 1938-1946”. I found a soldier named “Emil C Limpert” who enlisted as a Private on 26 Feb 1943 at Jefferson Barracks, Missouri. Maybe this is the same person?
Also, I searched Ancestry,com’s database entitled “U.S. World War II Navy Muster Rolls, 1938-1945”. I found a “Limpert, Emil C Pfc.” aboard “LCI(L) 1076” on 8 Mar 1945. He is listed with a over a hundred other US Army soldiers. The heading of the muster roll states “USS LCI(7) 1076 c/o FPO, San Francisco Calif. REPORT OF CHANGES Date of sailing March 8 1945 The following men of 163rd Inf., 41st Division received 3/6/45 trans to shore Company C 3/10/45”
In the news photograph, it looks like Mr. Limpert has a 41st Infantry Division patch in his shadow box.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/41st_Infantry_Division_(United_States)
Will they ever give him anything other than a slot on a waiting list?
They might because he has put the matter to one of his senators; otherwise, no.
I think the World War 2 archives might have his info..
VBA sucks ass. I don’t believe they are denying his status as a Veteran, or asking for more proof that he is a Veteran. I cannot tell you how many times I have received similar letters asking me to submit more evidence, if I had it. 2 months in, it is likely they are not even close to a decision.
Good point. If this was the man’s initial application for VA benefits, what he got may be a follow-up letter acknowledging receipt and telling him no decision has been made – and asking him to submit more info if he has it.
Perhaps no one told Mr. Limpert that it often takes months before a determination is made on an initial VA application for benefits. The reporter, however, should know that.
Months….while the VA is known for being slow, no one really takes the timeline seriously when it comes to their own paperwork. If this the first time he has ever filled paperwork with the VA? Filled it one and got the “need more info” letter back on first reply? As of now, the VA still has not even given their side of the story, other than the form letter.
WooGuy: the Fox2 article Jonn linked clearly implies this was the first time he’d applied for VA bennies. Frankly, I don’t see how any other interpretation would make sense.
The same article also indicate the VA apparently has a policy of not commenting on individual cases to the press unless granted authority to do so by the applicant. My guess is that’s HIPPA related, or perhaps just general VA privacy policy.
Perhaps it would BEHOOVE you to read linked articles provided as references a bit more carefully.
No Hondo….I already read the info. Had the vet gone through the process to understand just how fucked up the VA is in paperwork he would not have gone screaming into the night.
As far as BEHOOVE…..I read the articles….although it seems that 2/17 air cav never served when BEHOOVE was used which seems to indicate that he must have been in years ago for a 6 month stint….along within his refusal to answer my questions.
OK, “spell it out for you” time. 1. I’ll go out on a limb here – very safely, I think – and say 2/17 Air Cav is quite familiar with the definition of “behoove” and its usage. He was politely asking you why you were doing the equivalent of shouting the word in your comments above. (Believe me, he can be far less polite than that. He was being nice.) 2. There’s generally no need to do the equivalent of shouting in comments/discourse here. Doing so should be done sparingly, if at all. It’s considered rude when done with insufficient reason or to excess. 3. IMO 2/17 Air Cav likely did not answer your last questions because you appeared to be harping on the same point repeatedly, and he felt he had already wasted enough time trying to explain his POV to you. Frankly, I might have done the same – and possibly been even less polite than he was. 4. Your previous comment immediately above directed to me indicated you did not know whether this was the the first time Limpert had ever applied for VA benefits. The linked articles clearly imply that is the case. You apparently missed that – hence my admonition that it would behoove you to read them more carefully. The capitalization of “behoove” on my part was intentional, but was not intended as shouting. I’ll leave determining the reason I chose to do that as an exercise for you. A hint: it involves both being a bit sarcastic and polite simultaneously. 5. If you seriously did not infer from the linked articles that this was Limpert’s first VA application for benefits, you have a reading comprehension problem. In that case, you might want to check into courses to improve your skills in that area. 6. You appear new here. There’s an old maxim: “God gave us two eyes and two ears, but only one mouth.” The implication there should be self-evident – and it’s quite apropos for “newbies” here. It allows one to get the “lay of the land” – and thus minimizes the… Read more »
Hey boy…listen up. Why don’t you wait until the VA actually responds to this case. Regarding Emil, not saying he doesn’t rate it, just saying it also doesn’t help his cause when he publicly says that it isn’t about him being disabled, he filed because he ran out of money in his 90s. Poor financial planning on his part.
You have the unmitigated gall to tell an admin, “Hey boy…listen up”?!?!?!?! And your other posts clearly indicate that your situational awareness is significantly less than it should be. Lionesses, I think we might have a new chew toy!
I’m pleading ignorance to Limpert’s case. What type of benefits is he now seeking? Also, is it possible that his family accidently forgot to provde VA his dischage papers as well as his GO showing his PH? Perhaps there is more to this story that may not been addressed yet.
There is always more to the story but deadlines are deadlines and the news waits for no one, AnotherPat. In order for the VA’s take to be obtained, a release of information authorization is required and those take time. It’s always better to run with one side of a story than it is to take the time to get the entire picture and present it!
Does anyone know the name of the senator he went to for help? Some phone calls and emails supporting Mr Limpert seem in order.
2/17 Air Cav: Thank you for the feedback.
I am going out on the limb here and could be wrong. And if I am wrong, then I am wrong.
I don’t think Mr. Limpart received two (2) Bronze Star Medals.
I think he received two (2) Bronze Service Stars (Campaign Stars) for the two campaigns he participated in: Southern Phillipines and New Guinea.
Also, it looks as if he was wounded in New Guinea and not in the Phillipines on 27 May 1944.
The “Roster” was most likely General Orders 17 HQ 163rd Infantry (part of the 41st Division) which awarded him and other Soldiers the PH on 20 September 1944.
The news articles on him seem to imply that VA is denying him benefits. That is why I am asking what benefits he is seeking. VA Hospital Benefits?
Just curious. And again, on the BSM, if I am wrong, I am wrong. Perhaps other eyes may see something different than I did on the news clips. I have met folks who thought their parents/grandparents/uncles Bronze Service Stars for campaigns were the BSM because they innocently did not know. But one would think the Soldier would.
AnotherPat: as a Purple Heart recipient, Limpert would be entitled to VA medical care with waiver of most copayments (he’d qualify for Priority Group III as a PH recipient). As an honorably discharged veteran, if his income is low enough he’d also qualify for aid and assistance funds and a veteran’s pension. My guess is that he’s applying to establish eligibility for some/all of those.
Thanks, Hondo. I get confused with rules and laws changing when it comes to Veterans and their benefits. Learn something new everyday
You are a walking encyclopedia (or should I say DoD regulations). 😉
“Walking encyclopedia?” Thanks, friend – but not really. I just have looked the policies up on occasion, and am blessed with a fairly decent memory of where one can find the current info.
You absolutely have to check, though, because the rules and policies change from time to time.
When I was discharged after 32 years of service I voluntarily sent all my records to the VA. My records were 100% complete and accurate.
Since then, the VA seemingly admits to have my records, yet they seemingly have never reviewed my records …as they are always asking me to prove something or the other that is fully and completely documented in my records.
I believe Mr. Limpert 100%.
I believe him to, I just read an article on disableveteran.org on this person. Within seconds of reading it I also did a search of him and came up with his enlistment papers and other stuff. I also believe those letters the VA sends out are form letters they can pick n choose what to put on it. This choice to ask for more evidence is probably standard procedure as with everyone else and it’s everyone else who ruins it for the most deserving. He’ll get what he deserves hopefully and the VA will once again be shamed like they should be!!
I still stand on the two Bronze Stars on his discharge form as being Bronze Service Stars for his two campaigns (see my notes above). But I am now correcting myself in that I see he receive one BSM based on his CIB and I think he received that after 1947. Sorry. So, one BSM. (Could not make it out if it had a “V”.Two Bronze Service Service Stars.
And it looks as if he has orders for a Purple Heart. Again, maybe the family accidently forgot to provide those documents to the VA or the VA was looking for a PH certificate instead of looking at his Discharge paper and the General Orders?
It’s almost like the man is being punished for not using the VA system for the past 70 years even though he clearly rated it.
Here’s hoping that they put him to the head of the line as a hardship case.
I would hope so as well, JAOD. Assuming the above commentary by AnotherPat and others about his PH orders and service is accurate (I haven’t verified them), he appears to qualify at a minimum for Pri Gp III VA medical care. He may well also qualify for “Aid and Assistance” or veteran’s pension payments, depending on his income.
Any claims for disability compensation would likely IMO be a no-go, however. No VA claim for roughly 70 years post-discharge would IMO argue persuasively that no service-connected disabilities existed. The only exception I might see would possibly be for certain chronic tropical diseases – and if he’s ever taken a tropical vacation since being discharged, even that might be problematic.
[…] Lilyea at This Ain’t Hell has a typically pithy comment. And Jonn is right. If Emil Limpert was a blowfish claiming some nebulous twauma, VA would be […]
[…] Lilyea at This Ain’t Hell has a typically pithy comment. And Jonn is right. If Emil Limpert was a blowfish claiming some […]
Timing is everything, Hondo. Coincidently, received in the mail today the February 2016 VFW magazine. Low and behold: One of the articles is titled “Aiding & Attending Elderly Vets.” The article discusses the Aid and Attendance Pension that you mentioned and gives a list of required documentation that the Veteran needs to submit (as listed on the VeteranAid.Org Website http://www.veteranaid.org) in order to receive this benefit.
I just found out about Emil. He does stay at a nursing home with his wife an is not recieving VA benifits. WWII Vet he is pretty old probably needs help, a lot of help. Money is about to run out to pay for nursing home. Not sure why he hasnt recieved the help he needs. I am trying to find out the status of his claims.