Afghanistan. What’s the point, anyway?
The other day, we read about how the Taliban had taken back the Afghan city of Kunduz for the first time since they lost it in 2001. That the Afghan forces had withdrawn to a nearby airfield to reconsolidate. The New York Times reports that it’s probably not going to be anytime soon that the Afghan government gets control of the city. The Taliban seem to think that they have the ANA surrounded in their conclave and the US airstrikes are mostly to protect the ANA troops from the Taliban.
“The Taliban are strolling around freely like this is their home,” said Ghulam Rabbani Rabbani, a member of the Kunduz provincial council, who like many Kunduz officials had retreated to the airport but was in touch with residents. “They took a lot of weapons from the intelligence agency’s office, weapons that were stocked for arming pro-government militias. We fear that there was cash and vehicles also.”
[…]
The Kunduz police spokesman, Sayed Sarwar Hussaini, said some American Special Forces soldiers had arrived at the airport Tuesday evening — although whether they were there to call in airstrikes or to otherwise join Afghan commandos in an attack on the city was not clear.
So, now we’re dropping our troops into the middle of the action to rescue the Afghans, pretty much, from themselves. I’m sure our troops don’t mind it, but still.
From the Washington Post;
The increased support from the U.S.-led coalition comes amid growing signs that Afghan forces are struggling to repel the Taliban fighters, who were able to seize Kunduz in a lightning strike Monday, dealing a major blow to Afghanistan’s Western-backed government.
An Afghan security official in Kabul said a military fort fell to the Taliban in Wednesday’s fighting in Kunduz and that an estimated 50 security forces based at the fort had either surrendered or were captured.
In the meantime, the Associated Press reports that the generals are talking a drawdown from Afghanistan to meet the President’s timetable withdrawal for next year.
About 9,800 U.S. troops are in Afghanistan. But the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, Army Gen. John F. Campbell, has given the administration several options for gradually reducing that number over the next 15-months. The options all call for keeping a higher-than-planned troop presence based on his judgment of what it would take to sustain the Afghan army and minimize the chances of losing more ground gained over more than a decade of costly U.S. combat.
Now, the Taliban are making some late summer advances through out the country, and we’re right back where we were in 2012 discussing US withdrawal…again. the only reason that there are US troops in Afghanistan is so the president can prove that he’s serious about fight the war that he said was “worth fighting” during the 2008 campaign. But you know, what? He’s been half-assing the war through his whole term as President – he should just pull the troops out now. Tomorrow. No. Yesterday. For all the good this jerking around about withdrawal is doing for those people and that country.
The Afghans don’t want to fight for their own country and the US government doesn’t want to prosecute the war the way it should be fought, so really, what’s the point?
Category: Terror War
We’re rapidly moving back to the pre 9/11 power structure. Back to the future redux.
Which is heartbreaking beyond belief. So many good people sacrificed their lives for what?
Back in 2001, we should have simply flattened the bastards and then pulled out. With the message that if we had to come back, they’d get it 10 times worse.
As I’ve stated elsewhere, our enemies do not fear us. And when they lose that fear, all sorts of bad shit happens.
Indeed. What was the point? It certainly wasn’t to prosecute Al-Qaeda……because we are giving them money, weapons, and training for their forces in Syria.
America is like a spoiled two year old that throws a temper tantrum during breakfast. Milk, cereal, eggs, bacon, and the possibility of a calm morning……scattered everywhere. Nothing is safe. Collateral damage everywhere…..and all of this hate/discontent because of a dirty diaper.
I can only guess that there are two major factors in play. First, the Scrotum Shaver does not want to do what needs to be done for purely political reasons. Right now, he is in a holding pattern of sorts, either to preserve his fanciful legacy as he nears the end of his reign or in deference to the D hopefuls who don’t want to be associated with the pronounced failure of their pres. Second, having some troops and hardware in that shithole is like leaving the lights on and playing a radio when one is away from home for a few days. It at least gives a bad guy pause that either you’re home or, if not, that you might return at any time.
Those are my guesses. If we had a real president and a real sec of state, and a real Congress, we just might have been told just what the hell the point is.
I’m assuming that most of the readers and contributors to this blog have at least a passing familiarity with another blog, but just in case….
2/17 Air Cav, your last sentence said it all….and the opinion is shared by many. “How do you capture such a cascade of foreign policy failure in one, quick little post?
We have three main rivals in this world, all three represent in their own way the boot stamping on a human face forever; Russia, Iran, and China.”
http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.com/2015/09/a-handmaiden-to-your-rivals.html
I’m a long time reader and occasional contributor to CDR Sal’s blog. Good post!
I don’t understand why we still have people there at all.
They should have been withdrawn in toto already. The lack of real strategy is alarming. It’s more alarming than the Afghans running away from their own real estate, not defending it. Just up and run.
Remember, 0bama is a fore in policy expert.
I see what you did there.
/hole in one.
You’re both on Par with what I’m thinking as well.
Agreed. His Fore In policy is definitely not up to par….
Darn, an unexpected Bogey hit just before mine…
Although in his defense for a commie agitator in chief it is par for the course.
I am not an isolationist but at this point, given the last couple of decades, do we have any option?
Let them fiend for America then if they’re really nice, I mean open up a little to daddy, make Freedom Ring!
I have no problems with engaging forcefully on the world stage.
What I do have a problem with is the nation building bullshit. That simply turns into a retirement fund for whatever corrupt fucker is in power at the time.
Go in…open up a can of deluxe whupass…disengage.
Repeat as necessary until they get the fucking message.
We all know that will be the Russian strategy in Syria (and eventually Iraq). I bet it works.
Nation Building had worked in a prior time. Germany, Japan, South Korea were all successful. Unfortunately, it was a different time.
We have succumb to “instant gratification” which is a critical failure for Nation Building. So, yes, we dumped a shit-ton of money into Afghanistan and didn’t count where every dollar went. Even when we did, it wasn’t an immediate concern to fix the corruption. They also abused their “taking a little bit more for their family” and turned it into a lifelong business of stealing from us.
Same thing in Iraq, though Iraq was much more expensive to deal with.
We could’ve spent a tenth the amount in both countries and had them functional, but it would’ve taken a lot more time to function. They also abused our A-type personalities and used them against us to become lazy pricks.
They are still lazy, which is why the men are leaving women and children behind to go to Europe and be taken care of by someone else.
Again, unfortunately, there are hard working people in Afghanistan. The problem is they are too few and far outnumbered by the lazy and corrupt.
Nation building works best when you are largely reconstructing the whole place. What we have been trying to do is like slapping a veneer on a rotting outhouse.
Yep and we’re paying billions for that veneer.
There is now way you can compare Post WWII Europe to AFG. To Nation Build you have to have a populace that at least lives and thinks like they are in the same century that you are trying to create.
Goat fucking 13th Century Zealots are not going to get it done.
Which is also why it didn’t work in Iraq either. We were trying to change people from a dictatorship mentality that was there since the 70s and turn them into a democracy.
People who did a job at the fear of torture, did it. When they had the choice to not do anything, or do whatever job they felt like doing, they did what they wanted. In many infrastructure capacities, there weren’t people trained to take over.
Japan and Germany were nation REbuilding. The most important things like the culture, national identity, and governmental structures, were already there. S. Korea also to a lesser extent. Iraq and Afg. are tribal societies and Afgh. doesn’t even have a common language. It would take generations and more resources than we have to build viable nations in those places.
Funny thing, I recall hearing reports that 6 months after we kicked the Taliban out of power, troops were going into villages that didn’t have a clue what happened. Because quite a few of those villages didn’t care either way or have any involvement in govt issues.
Iraqi Shiites were too worried about revenge on Sunnis to prioritize other things like infrastructure as a first priority.
For a while, we were able to work with “tribal” lines and efforts.
And yes, this is also why the “Mayor of Kabul” ended up being in charge of the whole country. Far too many only cared about their family, then tribe, and not about the rest of Afghanistan.
The ineptitude of this entire administration is eclipsed only by the stupidity of half of the people in the country that actually think they are doing a good job…
Ladies and gentlemen, we are officially screwed, blue’d and tattoo’d…
This will no doubt get interesting in the future, it could be very interesting if the political system breaks down…
“We did not finish the job against al Qaeda in Afghanistan. We did not develop new capabilities to defeat a new enemy, or launch a comprehensive strategy to dry up the terrorists’ base of support. We did not reaffirm our basic values, or secure our homeland.
It is time to turn the page. When I am President, we will wage the war that has to be won, with a comprehensive strategy with five elements: getting out of Iraq and on to the right battlefield in Afghanistan and Pakistan; developing the capabilities and partnerships we need to take out the terrorists and the world’s most deadly weapons; engaging the world to dry up support for terror and extremism; restoring our values; and securing a more resilient homeland.
The first step must be getting off the wrong battlefield in Iraq, and taking the fight to the terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan.”
Thus spake Kandidate Baracka in 2007. Afghanistan was the RIGHT war. It was the one HE would win. Instead, we have nationalized and mandatory health care and gay marriage. Pardon me for laughing. And the SOB was re-elected. Pardon me for crying.
But Pokeestahn sounded so damn good. Lots of thrills went up a bunch of legs the day he made that speech.
See the hill. Take the hill. Anbandon from the hill.
Haven’t we done that before, some place in SE Asia?
Why should we pull back, regroup and start again on this?
I recall after just over a year of our being in Afghanistan, there were those presenting commentaries on the similarity between Viet Nam and Afghanistan.
yeah, and almost everyone who screamed “it’s another Veetnam” were from the part in power now.
I’m sure that B. Hussein 0bama MIGHT find time to read a statement about this from his teleprompter after he returns from his latest round of golf.
That’s only if Putin tells him to.
DA, hadasho!!
I think that the golf courses at Andres AFB and Camp David are rained out this weekend. At least this gives him an opportunity to jet out to Hollywood for another celebrity hosted fundraiser.
Yes, Afghanistan is a mess and IMHO not worth another American life. The Afghans will never stand up and fight without being backed up by external forces. Short of the coalition establishing multiple large PERMANENT bases throughout Afghanistan that country will never be stabilized. Anyone who thought “Nation Building” would succeed here has not studied history.
Three words. Rare Earth Minerals. Afghanistan has over $1T worth of these minerals waiting to be mined.
True, but what about logistics? A-stan has no railroad network, everything has to travel via pack animal, truck or air.
An interesting question. If memory serves, the Afghans have already granted mineral rights to the Chinese. Historically, the trade route most Westerners think of as it relates to Afghanistan is the old Silk Road down through the Kyber Pass and into the sub-continent of India. Such a route has always been problematic because the Afghans based a lot of their economy on extorting toll charges under threat of confiscating marketable goods such as spices.
The Chinese are probably aware of that, and might be seeing a different solution to the logistical problem. If you look at a topographical map of the area of border China shares with Afghanistan, its rugged country, but appears to have some terrain features that might allow a railroad as an option. An additional advantage is that the Chinese would likely be mostly shipping what amounts to a form of high-grade dirt, and not finished goods such as televisions or running shoes.
I have the geological survey PDF, if you want to read it. Just make a big pot of coffee.
The problem is that in order to get at that precious stuff, you have to literally strip mine the place into a hole in the ground. That means shoving the locals out of the way, pushing them aside. There is plenty of uranium ore in Iraq, too, in the mountains, but you still have to deal with the warfare.
It doesn’t matter how much mineral wealth exists there if you can’t shove the tribes out of the way.
Interestingly, the Chinese have been doing this for a few years already.
They are doing the same thing in Africa. They give money, provide jobs, etc., and are pulling minerals out and aren’t being bothered by the locals or anti-coalition forces. But they are also being patient about it instead of rushing everything based on the election cycle.
I know. I thought about that after I clicked the ‘post’ button.
So maybe, in an off-hand way, that ditzy blonde with the pearl necklace who used to work at the State Dept. wasn’t quite so far off the mark?
I know who you’re talking about. I hate even looking at her. She’s got no qualms about being a pompous ass to anyone who doesn’t believe every word she says and/or asks a “challenge” question.
The worst was when she proclaimed that the Soldiers on the FOB Bergdahl deserted from didn’t know as much about the situation as she did.
She’s the Breck Shampoo girl type, the bland, fake vanilla ice cream at a picnic with baloney sandwiches on white bread.
I went to school with two bimbos like her. Even so, even a stopped clock like her is right occasionaly.
Yes this does seem confusing but can be easily explained.
In 2007 we had a CIC that had America’s interests in mind.
In 2015 we have a CIC that has the Communist Party USA’s interests n mind.
So we have un-American activities being perpetrated in our name all across the globe. Retreat on won battlefields. The funding and arming of jihadists all across Syria and Libya.
It is truly sad.
Just curious, What won battlefields are you referring to?
All of Iraq. We completely left with no status of forces agreement. We are also leaving Afghanistan based on a time table rather than letting the conditions in the field guide our actions.
Well, respectfully we’ll have to agree to disagree about all of Iraq. SOFA is not something that we just impose on another sovereign country. If that country does not agree to the SOFA then we should pull our forces. The only exception I see to that is if its in our vital national interest. Under those circumstances we say fuck you to that country and occupy and execute whatever operations are necessary for mission accomplishment.
Regarding leaving Afghanistan. If we let ground truth be the deciding factor we should start building multiple large scale PERMANENT facilities and increasing the size of the military for the occupation. Short of that nothing is going to stabilize that shithole!
There is no point to the place anymore.
I’m not advocating a 1930’s style isolationism, but we’re dumping too much time, lives, and money into places where the people take a giant shit on our efforts and as mentioned, lining the pockets of the incompetent and corrupt government.
Start with Karzai. How many millions does he personally have right now? Make him walk out with that money, about a week after we pull out and blow in place every piece of gear we can’t carry out.
I’d say Karzai has over a billion.
Just for the fact he “owns” Coca-Cola in Afghanistan he’s got money. All the payoffs he got from Jergas and Poppy field growth in certain areas that were saved, contracts, projects, his presidential paycheck and so on.
Not bad for starting as the mayor of Kabul.
The point is that this would eliminate one of Bushes CF Albatros’ that people get to hang on Obama’s neck.
People have been screaming for years to pull out, but now that is happening and they do not like the consequences(nobody saw this coming?) they are screaming that this hot steaming pile taste like shit.
It was a shit sandwich from day 1 when we went in soft partnering with Nationals who sold us out. It smell was just covered up by a couple billions dollars worth of air freshener
Sadly, there isn’t one.
Without a nation building plan of generational occupation post conflict one might argue there never really was a point beyond wiping out the Taliban originally. Since that was never truly accomplished your question is most valid…
What is the fucking point of keeping men and women in harm’s way for a mission without parameters or definition using rules that have nothing to do with how to conduct a war…
They killed 3,000 the military lost 7,000 more killed afterwards and one starts to wonder why that is so…..
[…] The next portion is a guest post from my friend Jonn Lilyea of This Ain’t Hell, followed by a short blurb on my thoughts. […]