Lawrence J. Franks Jr.; deserter convicted
The New York Times tells the story of Lawrence J. Franks Jr., a West Point grad who was a medical platoon leader in the 10th Mountain Division and decided that wasn’t rigorous for him, that the lack of action led him to be suicidal after his eventful four years at the Military Academy, so he decided to bolt from Fort Drum and join the French Foreign Legion;
On Monday, Lieutenant Franks was sentenced to four years in prison and dismissal from the Army on charges of conduct unbecoming of an officer and desertion with the intention to shirk duty, specifically deployment.
[…]
In an interview last week at a hotel near Fort Drum, where the court-martial was held, Lieutenant Franks said that he actually yearned to go to war, but that his deployment was still almost a year away and in the meantime felt he could no longer control his suicidal urges.
“I needed to be wet and cold and hungry,” he said. “I needed the grueling life I could only find in a place like the Legion.”
He’s that he planned to kill himself on a pistol range by being a lieutenant – pretending to trip and discharge the weapon at himself, but then he talked himself out of that, that pesky Christian ethos thing interfered. So instead the ring knocker went AWOL.
Lieutenant Franks was taken in despite being wanted by the United States Army, and, like all other recruits, was given an assumed name. He became Christopher Flaherty and signed a five-year contract.
“We never ask where they come from, ” a French brigadier general, Laurent Kolodziej, said in video testimony from Paris. “You have people knocking on the door, just make sure they don’t have blood on their hands, and we take them in. The Legionnaires, it’s about giving someone a second chance.”
The lieutenant became a lowly legionnaire second class. Being stripped of rank, possessions and identity, woken up in the middle of the night to run in the rain, deprived of sleep and food, marched for hours on end while singing the slow, sorrowful songs that are a tradition in the Legion and harangued by sergeants who knew recruits had no one to call to complain, took the focus off his inner demons, he said.
Continue reading the main story Continue reading the main story
Continue reading the main story“Slowly, the depression went away,” he said. “I wasn’t thinking of killing myself anymore.”
So, basically, he deserted to go to war. He probably should have found another route like going to Ranger School or volunteering for Special Forces duty. I’m pretty sure that sitting in a cell for four years isn’t going to be very therapeutic. But then, no one ever accused lieutenants of being too smart.
Category: Dumbass Bullshit
Gotta hand it to the guy…he has balls……..albeit tiny, brie smelling, with a funny accent and curly moustache, but yeah, balls.
Maybe he and Bradley manning can be cell mates.. There is just not much about his story that I am buying into here.
I’ve often thought of a second career in ththe FFL. But then I realize I like where I’m at in life and it goes away
I am confused, here.
If he was in the Foreign Legion and was successful, how did he wind up getting court-martialed?
The Legion does not care. Or at least it used to not care.
He was convicted by the US Army when he turned himself in after his five year commitment to the FFL.
I see.
I do not think I would have returned all things considered, but that is just me.
Thanks for the clarification.
Certainly a new twist on the whole ‘shirking duty’ aspect. Still, a Turd, tho…
He was Active Duty army at Drum, and deserted to join the FFL.
He returned to the states and turned himself in, prompting the court martial.
At least he manned up and turned himself in
Yes, he did. And he did much good, reportedly, while in the Legion. The account makes it hard to disbelieve that he was facing personal demons and that he did what he thought he had to do to rid himself of them. Strange stuff.
Maybe he got a grip on his balls and manned up. The Legion does that to you from several of the guys I know that were in it. They are not the “kinder gentler military” that ours are turning into.
Yeah cos joining ffl isn’t manning up already, rofl
Way to go, dumbass. Do you know how few second chances people get in this world anymore? You had the perfect one through the Legion, and you blew it.
Way to ruin a perfectly good life, you brainless idiot.
Well PN,
Apparently the way the FFL works, after he serves his time and if he wants to go back, they sound like they’d let him back in.
Possibly, but when a man leaves the Legion, they give him money, a passport, a new identity. He could have come back to the states, and moved into civilian life with a clean slate — but, no more. Now he’s a deserter and a convict, and he’ll carry that with him wherever he goes, at least here. About the only place he can go back to now IS the Legion. I just hope he realizes that, because he has personally slammed and locked every door but one for his future. This dude is the painful kind of stupid, bent on self-destruction even when life hands him a bowl full of cherries.
I somewhat agree.
Though he did it the wrong way he could have made a clean start.
BUT…I have read/heard that some people want to come home (the US) and need to clean the conscious.
Still his credentials in France should still be good. he’s got a home to go to.
S&L, if I’d spent five years in the Legion doing what they do for a living, my conscience would have felt like a newly-minted gold coin. I would have considered that punishment enough for any transgressions I had in my past.
This doofus is just a glutton for punishment. If no one does it for him, he’ll do it to himself.
They are. He is now considered a citizen and can settle on any French Soil. The Legion does that for the crappy stuff they do. It really is the last stop of some odd and suspect characters giving them their last chance.
PN: he’d have had to apply to immigrate if he wanted to come to the US and stay here under that scenario. To stay, he’d have had to have applied for permanent resident alien status, or for naturalizaiton. Not sure, but I think being fingerprinted may be a part of the process for both.
Once he deserted, he screwed himself in this country. The court-martial was actually quite lenient – the maximum penalty for desertion during wartime under the UCMJ is still death. We were still shooting in both Iraq and Afghanistan in 2010.
Most foreign nationals finger print the index finger at immigration at most US airports these days. At some point, he’d have gotten picked up under his new identity in the US.
That may be in the statute, but nobody has considered death for desertion in a long time…and furthermore the later stages of Iraq/Afghanistan probably do not meet the military justice definition of “war.” But even if it does, multi-year sentences are very rare.
I prosecuted a few deserters myself…including a couple of Iraq Soldiers who overstayed their R&R. I had a hard time getting as much as 6 months and a BCD. Four years is very high by modern standards.
And some people thought it was normal and proper to let a deserter plead down to AWOL, and get a summary court-martial with 30 days jail time and an OTH administrative separation. I didn’t agree and I’m glad to say, when the case warranted court-martial, the command did it.
It’s indeed true that we haven’t executed anyone for wartime desertion since Slovik in World War II.
I personally think not trying to do so has been a mistake (Garwood should have been hanged IMO – along with one or more who deserted in Korea and later returned to US control). But that’s just me.
Except not being able to change things like those pesky finger prints and DNA. If he ever came back to the U.S. he would always have being a deserter hanging over his head. If he ever did something stupid that caused him to get fingerprinted he would pop as wanted. I don’t agree with how he went about things; but at least me manned up at the end.
So did he wear his foreign legion decorations during his court martial? 😀
Imagine the book deals…
This man has the respect of every man who is or has the honour of serving with the legion ! A place where men are made ! The proof being he faced his demons and survived ! He fought the common enemy with valor !
In one way I underrstand. Officers don’t get to choose thier branch. So getting “stuck” in Med Corps…I always feared getting stuck in Transportation. Argh.
Anycase he could have tried for SF. Ranger? For an officer NOT in an Infnatry position getting any special schools is nearly impossible.
Still he should have done his time then gone FFL.
And coming back? Why? Ok so he did the “right” thing but he’s a French citizen now. after a successful tour in the FFL he has a French citizenship (I once thought about doing joining…even learned French….)
Officers absolutely can pick their branch. Albeit it is on a merit list, but when I commisioned( ROTC, not West Point) I was REQUIRED to request two combat arms branches. This guy was in the top 15% of his year group, there is no way he would not have gotten either IN, AR, FA or heck, MP if he had requested it. This story is fishy
Not only that he could have resigned his commission and become an enlisted man. Seems he would have had a much better chance of getting to the “sharp end” and also not screwed himself in the process.
FWIW when I was in the CO Guard I had a SPC who was assigned to my section who was a USAF academy grad. He resigned his commission and still owed (I think) 5 years of service so he did it as an enlisted airman, then got out and went to law school. He was an assistant DA in Denver at the time he was in my section.
I understand how the branch seleciton works…well kinda.
I was top 5% of my ROTC and still got my fifth choice.
All in all You still didn’t get to choose. Not like enlisting where you can pretty much pick your career field. Officers, are still pretty much rolling dice weighted in certain ways…but still rolling dice.
Sure there are ways to nudge that and manuever but all in all you have to make the best of a bad assignment. I grew to love the Ordnance Corps. Wouldn’t trade it for anything.
USMA Cadet choose branches via an OML process. As a cadet that high on the OML (top 12%), Med Service Corps was his choice, as was Ft. Drum.
I think there might be a back story here…my wild ass guess is that he was looking to either go to flight school or medical school, but that didn’t pan out. This year’c class had 20 selected for MSC, and the ARmy permits about 16 per year to attend Medical school.
http://www.pointerview.com/2014/12/04/branch-night-brings-new-sense-of-belonging/
There is also the possibility that the IRS might be after him, if he didn’t file his tax returns while serving in the FFL. He wouldn’t have owed anything, but failure to file is still a crime.
Maybe but if he is now a citezen of France how would that work?
Also, why would an grad of WP pick Med if he wasn’t going into the field?
As a US citizen or national the IRS has its hooks in you for life for every dollar/euro/schilling you earn anywhere on earth.
As to your second question.
He might have picked Med (input for selection is due in September), but then didn’t get into Medical school. It happens. Then you are stuck with the branch choice.
As for the IRS. As the current Mayor of London who was born in the US, and hasn’t lived here since he was 2.
The IRS wants into the high six figures from him.
Actually, he now has dual citizenship. The SCOTUS ruled years ago that a natural-born US citizen cannot lose citizenship except via voluntarily renouncing same.
There has been alot of this (renouncing citizenship) in the press lately. People with dual status renouncing has reached an all time high, as the requirements for filing taxes (the rules as so complicated preparation can run into the thousands, even if no taxes are owed). Also, there are penalties on foreign banks that have US citizen assets, so banks are dropping customers overseas.
Also, renouncing citizenship is not free. There is a charge for the service, and you have to pay the long term capital gains tax on all of your assets at time of renounciation.
I read the NYT article. It is a very unusual case. Very. Unusual.
I’m glad he got hammered. He should have gotten more time.
I know my veteran friends in the BOP will take care of him.
If he was tried by court-martial, he’ll do his time at USDB/Leavenworth – not in a Federal pen.
Not always true. I worked for the Federal Prison system for almost 21 years. They farm out military prisoners convicted by Courts Martial all the time. I remember having ten to fifteen military inmates in our population all the time. Just depends on the seriousness of the crime.
Hmm. Learn something new daily. Thanks.
Back in the day, Boron and Vandenberg were two vacation destinations that I can remember off the top of my head.
Trent, it’s hard to believe they’d do that with an officer….in the military system, all officers go to Leavenworth. Did you ever see one?
(I had clients “farmed out” to a civilian jail pretty frequently, but it was enlisted guys with less than 30 days to serve, or doing pretrial confinement in a place that had no military prison.)
This guy sounds like an asswipe. As for his sob story, well, my Grandpa and three Great-Uncles would’ve told him to suck it the fuck up and do his job.
All four of them enlisted in the weeks following the Pearl Harbor attack, with the intent of fighting the Japs. Grandpa went into the Navy hoping to get onto a cruiser or battleship. Instead, he was assigned to a branch nobody ever heard of called the Naval Armed Guard and was stuck manning an antiaircraft gun on a Liberty Ship in the Atlantic and Med, later in the Pacific in 1945. He saw plenty of action, but not the kind he expected. Uncle Jim joined the Army to fight for MacArthur in the Philippines, but fought the krauts in Europe instead as a rifleman. Uncle Ollie wanted to fly a B-17 in the Army Air Forces, but was trained to fix them instead. So he worked his ass off to keep the 97th Bombardment Group’s B-17s running instead. Uncle Trevor thought joined the Army to fight, but spent the war as a supply clerk in Hawaii (the horror!). Rather than piss and moan about it, he made damn sure that he did his job as well as it could be done, and was proud of the fact that nothing was ever delayed getting to the guys that needed it because he dropped the ball.
And I never understood the French Foreign Legion. If so many frogs are unwilling to fight for France that they actually need such a force, then why the hell would anybody else want to do it? Maybe it’s just me, I dunno.
“And I never understood the French Foreign Legion. If so many frogs are unwilling to fight for France that they actually need such a force, then why the hell would anybody else want to do it?”
That’s gold, right there. It used to be that they really got the hardest and/or most lost cases who really had no where else in the world to go. Anybody who had options didn’t end up there.
Sounds like the USMA fella was either really mentally ill or clueless – because he really did have options.
Come on, the Legion is now seen as an elite force. Actually, it has been so for at least 50 years.
50 years?
I’d go as far as Camerone / Camarón, 1863.
65 légionnaires vs 3000 mexicans.
They have been pretty hardcore back to Mexico. It is a service for those who want a second chance no questions asked. New identity, redeem themselves before god and man, who knows? It is a function that people in the States know quite well. One of the founding principle of this country is that you can disappear and get a new start being who and whatever you want to be.
Most of the Legion is actually made up of French citizens.
In the old days of concription, the conscript force could only serve within France unless in time of War. There was no such stipulation on the Legion and the other two volunteer organization: Paratroops and Marines.
There are a lot of french people in the Foreign Legion, but when they join, they are listed as citizens from various french speaking countries (Canadian, Swiss, Belgians and all the others french speaking countries from Africa and Asia). That goes along with the new name they are given. They are pretty much breaking you as an individual (name, origin, belongings – you are not allowed to own a car or rent a flat or access your hard earned money) to make you a part of a corp. It is part of the process.
Naval Armed Guard is nothing to sneeze at. Their backup’s were USN gunners from I understood. These days they’ve been replaced by contractors…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6C5P-AYGdY
Ignorance of many US citizens about performance of French army during German 1940 attack of France is really awful. The French lost 100000 killed in the 6 weeks of battle of France in May/June 1940. A lot of ignorant people in US believe that the French didn’t fight,only because Paris was declared open city by French government, to avoid bigger destructions,as the battle was already lost. But Paris is not France, and the fightings, often fierce, were hundred miles away, mostly on Belgium border.
Perhaps you’ll notice I said “France” and “French” (okay, also “frogs,” but I also said “krauts” and “japs,” so I wasn’t singling anybody out) and not “cheese-eating surrender monkeys.” I know enough history to be well aware of how France’s manhood was bled out at Verdun, the Somme, and elsewhere in WWI, thanks in large part to the arrogant ineptitude of Joffre and Nivelle, who insisted on Napoleonic methods from their chateau headquarters while the average poilu existed in squalor, filth, and knee-deep mud from the blood of his buddies, under near-constant machine gun fire. And that LeClerc was a decent ass-kicker (De Gaulle being an overrated peacock) in WWII. And LaFayette had bigger balls than any fifty ordinary men combined.
I simply mentioned that it speaks to a sad state of affairs that France has had to rely so heavily for so long on a force made up primarily of foreigners.
The Legion isn’t “a force made up primarily of foreigners”.
It is a corps that includes foreigners “who have become sons of France not by blood received but by blood shed”.
It’s about becoming french, not being a hired gun.
That is by the way why I find the very common comparison with Gurkhas totally irrelevant.
As long as you get the point that I wasn’t shitbagging the French for being French.
Reminds me of MOH Recipient Lewis Millett. Deserted from the US Army Air Corps before Pearl Harbor because he wanted to get into the fight. Joined up with the Canadian army. Later joined back up with the US Army. he was court-martialed, convicted and was fined 58 bucks. Then promoted to 2nd LT. 2 weeks later. Fought in WWII, Korea, Vietnam. I believe his mustache has more trigger time than any of us.
Medal of Honor
Distinguished Service Cross
Silver Star
Legion of Merit (3)
Bronze Star
Purple Heart (4)
Croix de Guerre (France)
Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Millett
Well, except for the pesky little fact that Millett didn’t desert during wartime, and returned to the US military after the US entered the war. This guy did effectively the opposite.
I don’t think it’s that clear cut, as the US was entering full mobilization when Millet left, and had gone to full mobilization while he was still in Canada (September 1940).
His saving grace was that literally thousands of Americans (many of whom where in the National Guard and therefore missed the mob notice) left the US for Canada, UK, and France. The US was so short of experienced manpower that they had no choice but to take them back in and give the offenders a slap on the wrist punishment (though $58 was over a months pay in Millet’s day).
This case is different in that the US was in a conflict and the unit appears to have been either in the cycle or entering the cycle to deploy.
My sympathy is pretty limited for the guy, but I believe that the punishment is a bit excessive given the circumstances and what has been metted out to other deserters over the last decade.
As a tax payer, why do I have to bare the financial burden of his four year incarceration? Just give him a dis-honorable with a substantial fine ($500-750K)and let us all be done with it.
Luddite4Change: mobilizing in 1941? Yes. Actually at war in mid-1941? No. Therein is the difference – a very substantial one.
I also don’t recall any other officers being tried for desertion since 9/11. (Two or three for refusing to deploy, yes – but that’s not desertion.) So any comparison with other recent desertion cases isn’t particularly relevant.
An officer deserves to be hammered harder for willful misconduct than a more junior troop.
Mobilization started in the summer of 1940 with the federalization of the National Guard in August and passage of the Selective Service Act in September, by the summer of 1941 the US was knee deep in providing escorts across half the Atlantic (War in all but name).
All the guys who were members of the Guard (thousands) who were already outside the US fighting the war and failed to report were deserters at that point.
We might not care about any comparison of the former LT and enlisted deserters or other officers that refused to deploy, but it will matter when his case is no doubt appealed.
I’m not saying the guy shouldn’t be slammed (especially since he’s an officer) he rightly should. I just don’t think that 4 years of incarceration at taxpayer expense is the way to do it.
A little ingenuity could have been in order in terms of a plea bargain. How about: $750K fine, renunciation of US citizenship, and permanent bar on entry to the US. (I’d like to revoke his graduation from USMA, but I don’t know if thats possible).
As it stand now, he finishes serving his time (what ever that ends up being, I’ll bet well less than 4 years) he can go down to the French consula, pick up a new passport, start a new life, and still come back to the US when he chooses. He could even work in the US for a foreign company under his new name.
Thats just not right IMHO.
Refusing to deploy certainly can be “desertion with intent to shirk.” The case of United States v. Huet-Vaughn is exactly that…a reserve medical officer who refused to mobilize (because of her personal opinion that Gulf War I was unlawful). To be guilty of that crime, you simply have to know that your unit is going to do “important service” (which includes combat zone duty) and stay away from your unit when it does the important service. You don’t even have to want to stay away permanently (that’s a different kind of desertion).
I suppose if you stayed with the rear D but wouldn’t get on the plane you could argue you didn’t “quit your unit”…in which case you’re quite right, it would be another crime…but someone who didn’t go to the unit at all meets the elements.
Interestingly, you can also desert by joining another military service while still obligated to one service (e.g., enlisting in the Navy while you have time to run on an Army contract)…I haven’t seen the charge sheet but I’d be surprised if this guy wasn’t charged with that. Here is the statutory language:
“Any member of the armed aorces who…without being regularly separated from one of the armed forces enlists or accepts an appointment in the same or another one of the armed forces without fully disclosing the fact that he has not been regularly separated, or enters any foreign armed service except when authorized by the United States; is guilty of desertion.”
(It’s 10 U.S.C. 885(c).)
Alberich: in the 2 or 3 recent cases that I’m aware of, as I recall the individual remained under military control but merely refused to deploy when ordered. Also as I recall, none of them were charged with desertion. They were specifically charged with missing movement and/or failure to obey a lawful order.
I believe they all got booted. Not sure how much time, if any, they did, and don’t have the time/inclination to research it now.
Makes sense. Thanks!
My honorary Regimental Commander was a damn stud! I remember how highly he thought of another Wolfhound, David Hackworth. His non-comment spoke volumes.
C Co, 3/27 IN, 2nd BDE, 7th ID(L)
If he had these mental health issues it’s too bad he didn’t use them to get medically discharged and then head off to the FFL.
He didn’t go to Canada, he did turn himself in to face what he did. This is not a typical deserter case, the story lends some credence to his mental health issues. It also reveals how easy it is to hide those symptoms of depression from family members who aren’t actively looking for that problem. So on the one hand we have a guy with a mental health issue perhaps in one Bowe Bergdahl who left the reservation and managed to get kidnapped returning a conquering hero after a presidential authorization to get him back, and on the other a man who claims a mental health issue who left the reservation to fight the types of people who grabbed Bergdahl coming back a criminal and turning himself in to face his punishment.
I can respect one of these men, not so sure about the other.
Not sure I can easily tie those ends together.
The only thing I can respect about this guy is that he eventually came back to face the music, VOV. I’ll give him that much.
Otherwise, he broke his oath, avoided his sworn duty, and left his unit – and his fellow soldiers – to do his job plus their own. I don’t much give a damn about why; doing that during wartime is in my book inexcusable.
The problem I have with the four years is the inconsistency of the military in dealing with this issue.
Many other AWOL or deserters who leave to go home get the Big Chicken Dinner and a suspended sentence or 90 days or less (like Ricky Clousing)….
I understand that his actions were inexcusable to you, but for my money they weren’t nearly as reprehensible when applied contextually and historically to other situations that were punished at a lower level or basically ignored.
How is what he did all that different from the Millett story IntelPOG placed above? Man left the gunnery school by desertion, joined the Canadians and then transferred back to the US was fined a month’s pay or so….and promoted…context and historical precedent.
Since Slovik was the only one executed for desertion since the Civil War the next highest penalty was 5 years….there is some data that indicates that many deserters agree to OTH to avoid court martial and are often given that option.
Since no one has been sentenced to more than 5 years since the 1940s it appears this sentence is a bit out of proportion to current standards applied…
I understand YMMV.
Millett is an inappropriate historical precedent.
Millett was (a) not a commissioned officer at the time of his desertion, and (b) did not desert during wartime (the US was not at war in mid-1941). This guy (a) was a commissioned officer at the time of his desertion, and (b) did desert during wartime.
The former alone argues for greatly enhanced punishment (commissioned officers SHOULD be held to higher standards). The latter recognizes the fact that his offense was more severe (and subject to much more severe punishment) than the offense Millett committed (peacetime desertion).
There is no valid comparison between the two when facts are analyzed.
Well some guys who left the US at the time Millett did were swearing allegiance to the king…I don’t know if he did or didn’t that would mean renouncing your US citizenship to join the Canucks….that seems a problem. I understand your point with this guy and I get what you’re saying about a higher standard. My point was the worst sentence since Slovik (and eve Slovik was a highly unusual case, the only man executed since the 1860s for desertion) was executed has been a whopping 5 years and this guy got 80% of that sentence after turning himself him and cooperating with the US military with respect to facing consequences. That sounds like a guy who knows he fucked up, and understood there would be serious consequences and did the right thing by owning up to that and came back to do his time. I can respect someone who fucks up and has the intellectual and intestinal fortitude to submit themselves to the proper authorities. He could easily have become a French citizen under that assumed name and never come back. If asswipes who bail out and have to be brought back to their unit in a Federal Marshal transport are given 90 days or less along with their BCD I believe this sentence to be out of proportion to what’s happening on a regular basis to other deserters who have to be apprehended to face their punishment. We have senior officers who commit serious acts of misconduct and outright criminality but are protected by the good ‘ole boy network at the puzzle palace and are allowed to retire in more or less good standing. I’m not suggesting this man didn’t deserve dismissal and some incarceration, but a period of incarceration that is 80% of the maximum when others are routinely given far less sounds wrong. Especially when those others never turned themselves in. When senior officers can violate the UCMJ with impunity I find this punishment to be a bit of an oddity. You might advocate for his hanging, as you stated he was allowed to get… Read more »
I won’t dispute your assertion that higher ranks (officer and NCO) seem to get “cut slack” when court-martialed for misconduct these days, VOV. IMO, that’s true – and that is a damned shame. Higher rank means higher responsibility – and higher expectations that the individual will act correctly. When someone of high rank doesn’t, they deserve to be royally hammered. “For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.”
Yes, a lot of US citizens did indeed enlist/otherwise serve with Canadian and UK forces before the US entry into World War II. Most committed no crime at the time in doing so. A few did (desertion); some (if not many/most) of those later returned to US control and rejoined US forces after the US entered the war.
I wouldn’t argue in this guy’s case for death. It’s indeed “on the books” as the maximum punishment for wartime desertion, but I’d personally reserve that for those who deserted while deployed to a combat zone. To me, this guy’s sentence (dismissal – the officer equivalent of a DD – plus 4 years) seems about right for an officer or senior NCO who deserts while awaiting deployment during wartime.
I can respect the guy’s guts to come home and “face the music’. I cannot respect his conduct in deserting during wartime. Period.
Fair answer my friend, know that I always respect your point of view and have come to appreciate your long range perspective that I lack due to a much shorter time of service.
How is that different from the chicks that get knocked up with “deployment babies”?
If you’re talking about a female who intentionally gets pregnant prior to a scheduled deployment – plenty different. That’s not illegal. Unethical, yes – but not illegal.
If it happens during a deployment, somewhat different story. Even then, pregnancy wouldn’t be illegal per se. However, the conduct leading to same may well violate the UCMJ (Article 92, Failure to Obey Order or Regulation), particularly while deployed to the CENTCOM AOR (GO1). However, the military seemingly doesn’t have the stones to prosecute people in such circumstances these days.
But, old boy didn’t go running to Canada, screaming for a nice socialist teat; he didn’t sit at home surrounded by the hags from CodePink, crying about the immorality of war. HE JOINED THE FRAKKING LEGION! AND DID HIS TIME! AND THEN COWBOYED UP AND TURNED HIMSELF IN AND TOOK THE PUNCHES! All of you can pass judgment, or tell me whut Grandpa and Uncle Zeke did in da Big One, or whatever. He screwed up, came back, took his licks. He could have stayed away, or taken the new life, or whatever. He took the punches! It’s late to the party, but the boy has moral courage.
AWOL to go get some.
lol @ getting stuck in med battalion doing paperwork. This guy is a war fighter.
Such a shame our govt threw him in prison for 4 years while real cowards that go awol aren’t even prosecuted. Obviously this guy has legit issues.
True, he’s a fighter. He just wasn’t willing to fight for his own country after swearing an oath to do so, deserted during wartime, and chose to fight for a foreign nation instead.
Sounds kinda like what Bergdahl is alleged to have done, actually. Except the other cause for whom he deserted our Army happened not to be at war with us.
You may admire that. To me, that’s disloyal as hell. And under the UCMJ, doing so during wartime is particularly reprehensible. It’s why desertion during wartime carries death as the maximum penalty.
He was lucky, and got off fairly easy.
With the little information I am getting here I am having a hard time judging him too harshly. Right now the US Army is too blegh. He made a mistake is coming back to face the music. Comparing him to Bergdahl is way out of line. You know for a fact that comparison is BS. Millett may be a little far off, but not nearly as far off as Bergdahl.
Really? And, pray tell, what is the essential difference?
Both were in the US military. Both alleged to have willfully deserted. Both are later alleged to have willingly joined a foreign military force. So far, no difference.
The only difference is the fact that France and the US didn’t engage in hostilities within the last 5 years. I rather doubt this guy had anything to do with that fact. And remember: today’s ally can end up tomorrows enemy pretty damn quickly.
I’d have no problem with this guy’s conduct had he completed his active duty obligation or gotten kicked out of the US Army first. I have a big problem with anyone who deserts during wartime to go fight for another country or cause – regardless of who or what that country or cause might be.
Hondo I won’t bother arguing it with you. I think you have your mind set and no matter what you won’t concede. This guy was out fighting the same enemy in a different part of the world, but sure he didn’t do it by today’s rules. Which 50 years ago he may have been treated differently. Now their is no room for judgement calls just black and white thought. He had a dilemma and made a choice and now he is reaping the consequences. Honestly after five years in the Legion I don’t think he really cares what you or I think.
Fighting the same enemy? Hardly.
During his 5 years with the FFL, this guy did 2 peacekeeping missions (Central African Republic, Djbouti) and served as a GO’s bodyguard on a third (Mali). He never set foot in Iraq and Afghanistan.
He’d have done more to fight Islamic terrorism during the first 30 days of the deployment he was scheduled to make to Afghanistan before he deserted. And he’d have been serving the US national interest, not that of a foreign nation.
You’re right you won’t change my mind. The guy had a duty to his own country – one he’d willingly signed up to perform. And he consciously chose to desert during wartime instead to serve another nation.
I don’t care if he was deserting to “save his own life” or to serve as the Pope’s personal bodyguard. Doing so was wrong – period.
Not making any difference between a soldier who deserted while deployed in a war zone and a commissioned officer in medical services who deserts while stationed in the US to join an ally in an elite fighting regiment, as a simple private, fighting the very same enemy (AQIM)…
You are entitled to your opinion.
But any educated person will discard it as rubbish, since you show the analytical capabilities of five year old.
And seriously putting France and Talibans on the same level ?
I suggest less internet, more books, it’s never too late.
Obviously you are less intelligent than you believe yourself to be, “Ted”. Nowhere above do I equate the Taliban and the FFL.
My issue is not with who the man chose to join after he deserted. My issue is the fact that the man (1) deserted, (2) as a commissioned officer, (3) after having been notified he would deploy, (4) in order to fight for a foreign force, (5) during a period of wartime.
Who he later joined or why is immaterial and has no bearing on those facts. It also is immaterial to the fact that his actions left his unit shorthanded, forced others to perform his duties, and violated his oath of commissioning.
Read that again, and have someone explain it to you if necessary. I’d attempt an explanation here on a level you might understand, but at present I don’t have enough time to attempt put it into one-syllable words. From your inane comment above, perhaps an explanation of that nature will indeed be required.
Try less emotional involvement and reading more carefully to understand the actual arguments being made. That does wonders for preventing foolish comments like yours above.
I stand corrected.
It is obviously too late.
It’s never too late to learn common sense and improve reading comprehension, “Ted”. Recommend you immediately begin working on both.
I stick to my guns on the analysis.
Yet you are right I got emotional and that doesn’t help build a constructive conversation. I’m not looking down on you I just totally disagree with you.
No hard feelings.
Hondo for later reference and to mock you I will remember that in your eyes there is no difference in the French Foreign Legion and the Taliban. You are being deliberately obtuse to support your black and white argument, so I will remember this. “Taliban is equal to the French Foreign Legion,” Hondo
Welcome to TaH…
JPJ: it’s a free country, You’re free to be a damned liar if you choose, “amigo”.
A damned liar is precisely what you will be if you stand by your statement above. The record above shows clearly I never equated the Taliban and the FFL. No amount of misrepresentation or wishful thinking on your part can change that simple truth.
Besides, given a few of your own past comments here at TAH I don’t think you really want to “go there”.
Hondo what are you going to say I am crazy? Duh, I think everyone is well aware of that fact. I don’t try to hide that fact. I am not being deliberately obtuse about something just to stick with a stupid black and white argument. You expect every soldier to hold up their oaths individually when how many times has the Army or military in general broken their oath to us? How many times have they changed the rules mid-stream? If you are going to hold this guy to his oath as stringently as you claim to then I will expect you to do the same to the Army.
Call yourself whatever you like, JPJ. If you want to call yourself crazy, I won’t debate the point with you.
I also personally don’t care about whether or not you agree with me. But I do have a problem with someone baldfaced lying about what I did and did not do or say. You did that above.
As for your “breaking faith” assessment: get real. This guy wasn’t in the Army long enough for the Army to “break faith” with him. He deserted before there was ever a chance for that to happen – he appears to have been in maybe a year when he split.
For an officer to desert during wartime is absolutely unacceptable. Voluntarily serving in a foreign military while a deserter compounds the offense.
I forgot why I mainly lurk and don’t comment much. Thank you for reminding me Hondo.
You two ease up on each other, okay? It’s beginning to look like there are some frayed tempers floating around here.
Someone lying about what I did or said tends to give me a case of foul temper, PN.
Hondo.
Jason won’t because he’s too fed up with your ‘codgerness’. But I will cheerfully cuz I love watching you trip all over yourself so predictably, and really don’t give a crap what you think.
You wrote “Both were in the US military. Both alleged to have willfully deserted. Both are later alleged to have willingly joined a foreign military force. So far, no difference.
Jason wrote “I will remember that in your eyes there is no difference in the French Foreign Legion and the Taliban.”
While you (Hondo) didn’t technically equate the Taliban and the Legion, you also don’t draw any distinction between the two but used both in explaining your position, and in the greater context of the overall discussion with all it’s overtones, it essentially comes across you not thinking there is any difference between service in the Legion, and aiding the Taliban.
Jason is no liar. 🙂
As for you trying to create some kind of moral equivalency between the two events you use as examples, well, that’s even sillier than trying to equate the Millett and Franks cases.
I agree,
Coward? Nope, definitely not.
Crazy as a shithouse rat? Oh Yeah.
He’s got a whole “6-pack”, but he’s missing the plastic thingie that holds it all together.
I am having a hard time hating this guy. He left the US Army to go to the French Foreign Legion then came back to face the music in the US. Hell there was a time in the US we would have celebrated a guy like this. I would be willing to bet that he is tougher than 90% of the zero deficit military that we have today.
Pardon me if this question is answered elsewhere, but when in the history of the United States would a deserter be celebrated for having deserted just because he returned to face the charge? And who would have done the celebrating?
Certainly, I will acknowledge that there seems to be a great deal more honor roaming through his system than most with whom we deal around here, but he has a very warped way of suppressing it at times when perhaps he needed it most.
There is no honor in desertion. Having done something void of honor doesn’t mean one can never again do something honorable. Maybe that applies here, and maybe it does not.
Haven’t commented in a while, so be nice people. My wife woke me up this morning with this gem of a story. Believe it or not I was this kid’s Squad Leader back at USMA, and served in 2-22 IN with him when this shenanigans went down. None of us could figure out for the longest time where he was. Worst part was what he did to his family, leaving without a word. They didn’t find out for the longest time where he even was. The fact that he joined the legion was complete news to me, and I didn’t truly believe it until I saw the picture. He’s definitely got a few screws loose. And I question the fact that he deserted to find ‘action’ since we went to Afghanistan in January. Well now he’s famous….sort of.
Now I’m kinda confused and wondering if you are right about his mental state. If he deserted to get action knowing that you were leaving in Jan for Afghanistan it is very odd.
He served as a private in the 2nd REP which is an elite first line paratroopers regiment. I’m not looking down on commissioned officers from medical services, but he has definitely not done the same kind of mission as he would have in his original regiment at his original rank.
You can’t hate the guy, but it is also hard to feel any sympathy. The US government allowed him into the USMA and spent a ton of money/time/resources training this guy. He then told them, piss off, I want a cooler job.
To shirk your responsibility, even if it is to join the FFL, is not a sign of a quality soldier. If you support his actions, then you are saying that every combat MOS service member who gets stuck in a HQ, as a driver, or any other duty that isn’t actually combat is justified in just up and walking away to do something they feel is more aligned with what they want to do.
The military isn’t about doing what you want to do, but doing the job the military decides it needs you to do at that time. As far as the jail time, this guy swore an oath and signed a contract. Neither of those include a clause that exempts you if you don’t get to do the job you wanted. It may speak to his character that he came back to face the music, but if he was truly honorable and of sound character he never would have deserted in the first place.
Maybe his time in the FFL taught it a lot about honor and character, but that does not erase his actions.
Bingo. Well said.
It’s the story of a boy who became a man & if he write a book, I’ll sure buy this one.
Whatever you think, he choose it this way, he’ll be less a deserter every passing day.
How many people have you even heard of who deserted in order to ensure that he got into combat? I know of one, a WW II Marine. Neither of these men were legally entitled to do what they did. The Marine ended up with the Medal of Honor. Franks got a four-year prison term.
I used bad English. Mea culpa. Neither of these men was….
And although it may be a minor point, what galls me is that he took a highly coveted West Point slot from someone who probably would have, you know, honored the contract and actually served.
A lot of highly motivated, hard-charging, and highly deserving young people don’t “make the cut” because slots are so few, and it pisses me off when somebody throws one of those slots away.
When Doctrine Man posted this on Facebook my suggestion was that maybe they could’ve given him a chance to put up or shut up. Take a hitch with the Rangers while on restriction. If they’d have him. The Legion aspect tells me that he’s no coward but he broke faith and should pay for that. I just figure they could get better out of it than feeding him for four years in a cell.
BTW. My scenario assumes he reports to RIP as PV 1 with a flag on his records.
Now he’ll be all, “here come those voices again!”
Here’s what he faced when he joined the FFL. Not saying that he didn’t deserve to face the music when he got back, but he did something that was tougher than what he would have faced in his last couple of years in the Army, which makes no sense. He should have finished his tour and then joined the FFL.
Back in 1993 I did a 3 month TDY stint to Fort Bliss. At that time Ranger school still had a ‘desert’ phase and there was an RTB (Ranger Training Battalion) there at Camp McGregor, which is in the middle of the desert about 30 miles from main post.
Anyway, during part of that time, some FFL units came to train with the rangers.
I remember driving by a group of them getting ready to do some kind of training and I have to say they were the hardest looking MF’ers I think I’ve ever seen. Seriously they looked like bikers with shaved heads and without the biker gut. In fact, they looked more like convicted felons and I’m sure many of them were.
Who knows, after 4 or 5 years in the FFL, maybe Franks looks at 4 years in a maximum security prison as something of a break?
Let me net this out:
During the day and week I am NYC and DHS centric and on the weekend I am a snow ball throw to USMA and my neighbors work there …
From what I KNOW and what I HEAR … This guy is a POS!
PERIOD!
The guy is a nut job. Trying to make sense out of crazy is a waste of time.
Four years of “Duty, Honor, Country” and an outstanding education evidently cannot cure craziness.
Beretverde, that right there is probably the best post, and observation, on this whole crazy story.
All of the antiwar nutters who went to Canada to desert their posts during this war got a year incarceration. They were all enlisted, though.
Given this and all of the other circumstances, I think his sentence was a little harsh. Unlike the other deserters, he actually did put his butt on the line, albeit for one of our allies. Yes, he deserves to be convicted, and punished, but I’d regard a just punishment as being closer to one than to four.
I’d be inclined to agree, MrBill – if the guy wasn’t a commissioned officer.
IMO a commissioned officer should be held to higher standards when they willfully commit a serious violation of the UCMJ. Unlike many other cases we’ve seen recently, this appears to be a case where precisely that happened.
I do agree with you that officers should be held to a higher standard, Hondo. And if he was just a run-of-the-mill deserter like the folks Jonn mentioned, I’d have no problem with the harsher sentence. My point was only that he had some mitigating factors in his case that were not present in the others, and that when taking those mitigating factors into account, a just sentence for him might be close to what the others got. It’s all a balancing act, and of course reasonable folks may differ on where to strike the balance.
‘Fraid I see no mitigating factors here, MrBill.
He was an officer. He deserted in wartime in order to do something else, leaving his unit to pick up the slack. He then joined and served in a foreign military force. The “why” to me is, frankly, immaterial. Ditto the foreign military force he chose to join.
He knowingly broke his commitment to this nation, and his oath of commissioning, by deserting during wartime. He had other options that would have avoided desertion, but chose not to use them.
He made his bed. Let him now lie in it.
We agree that he broke faith with his comrades and his country. We disagree on whether mitigating factors exist. Reasonable people may do so. So it goes.
Agreed. Reasonable people can indeed differ.
I’am French and nobody here tell about political reasons. You must to notice he left US ARMY when O’BAMA was the 1th black president and France elected a new conservateur (pro-USA) SARKOZY. He had a problem to fight for O’BAMA, and, for him, he refused to serve for this president. This is the only good response who come in my mind, It’s exactly what i feel if i was in his boot. To serve myself for O’bama??? NO WAY! (for the new asshole French president Hollande also!)
Mr. Al Satian,
“What you’ve just said is on of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone here is now dumber for having read what you wrote. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”
(Apologies to Adam Sandler) 😉
Are you sure i’am wrong???? You’re a proud blind libtard who enlist multi-culti doctrin!… I stand with Lieutenant L.Franks and bash myself US-FORCE who do NOTHING against mestizos invaders who destroy America! VOILA! Merde alors!
I’ll bet you’re worth endless hours of entertainment in Oklahoma, if your accent is as thick when you talk as when you write!
Had the man been in the military and deserted at the time Obama became president, I’d say your argument had some merit. Such, however, was not the case — and the young man himself clearly stated he deserted and joined the Legion so he could fight.
Soldiers fight for their country, not their president.
You are the worst supporter he could ever get.
I don’t agree with the whole article, but one conclusion it reaches that I think sucks is that Bergdahl will probably walk free while this man rots for 4 years (or until he gets probation). The fair answer is to punish the 1st not to let the 2nd off but…… does anyone really see that happening?
https://medium.com/@Doctrine_Man/hidden-scars-47ed99da8af5
I respect the Legion and am a reader of Bernard Fall. I was an elisted MP and everything this guy went through was tougher than what I did. I look at this two ways. One, we no longer chalenging young men (mostly because we need to make sure the chick’s can pass) and, we are so afraid of offending people.
Men will always seek a challenge. As our military gets more PC, we will see fewer of those warriors.
The Legion is supposed to check if you are a deserter from a NATO-member military. For instance, Frenchmen are supposed to have completed their conscription if they want to join; if they have a reserve commitment they get identities as French Canadians, Belgians, or Swiss. American veterans have served in the Legion, but they had to complete their commitments first. The Anonymat (“anonymity”) is only granted if you are not wanted for a felony – the old days of taking anybody are out. They’ll take homeless guys, petty criminals, and ex-cons, but not wanted felons. Plus: serving in a foreign military, even an ally like France, suspends your American citizenship; he’d have to complete his 5-year commitment and become a French citizen and then reapply to get his citizenship back. As a foreigner, he couldn’t receive a promotion past Corporal unless he takes the qualification test. For non-citizens, the prerequisite is serving as a senior NCO or commissioned officer in another army. He couldn’t take the test unless the Legion got his records that prove he was a former commissioned officer. It sounds so crazy.
As nutty as it sounds, maybe that’s his game plan. 4 year sentence will most likely translate into about 3 to 6 months. All of the MPs convicted in the Abu Graib-ass fiasco who similar or longer sentences were out in less than 2 years.
Maybe he’s here to do his time, get full copies of all his records, including his Academics from West Point, and then head back over?
WHo knows, nothing would surprise me about this story at this point.
I was thinking something along similar lines. Its just to easy for him to start a new life in Europe under a different name, but still using the cache of having graduated from one of the best schools in the world.
And….I’m sure his French is pretty decent at this point.
SidneyBroadshead: um, that would be a “no” on the “suspends your American citizenship” part.
Prior to 1967, joining a foreign military or voting in a foreign election (along with a number of other offenses) caused loss of citizenship under the Nationality Act of 1940. However, close to 50 years ago – in Afroyim v. Rusk (1967) – the SCOTUS held that a US citizen cannot be involuntarily stripped of US citizenship. That’s been the case under US law ever since.
He needed to be cold, wet and hungry? He could live in my gardening shed. No heat, concrete floor, and he could rest his head on the lawn mower after he cleans and sharpens the blades.
Wet, huh? Well, it does rain and snow around here and I frequently run the lawn sprinkler in the sumertime. I’m sure the kids in the neighborhood would be happy to water balloon him.
And hungry? I’m sure as hell not going to feed him, even if he does basic yard work and shovels the sidewalk when the snow flies. He’d have to compete with Squirrel the Thief for birdfood and corn, and I don’t throw much unused stuff into the trash, so his dumpster foraging would be mostly futile.
Or he could just do like those runaways I saw last summer living under a bridge on the river: hang out thre, build a tiny fire, and steal out the dumpster at the local McD’s.
Hello gentlemen: If any of you have dealt with a serious unrelenting dark mood mental illness which begins in early adolescence, with “demons” of ideas of suicide within your mind to hurt yourself from age 13, throwing yourself to perform and to do something worthy while enduring plain to relieve the dark numbness, to give yourself for others and even your life for your country so you could be like your older brother, all the while never letting on to your brilliant siblings within a demanding “perfect” family of heroes, you would be able to begin to understand what really compelled this young man to drive himself to give his life, if necessary to die, for his country to relieve pain and be worthy…… If you knew of Lawrence as I do while shining from a stellar teenage brilliance intellectually and physically, a football phenom and athlete in High School, with a father who is a brilliant neurosurgeon of enormous discipline and compassion, (former President of the Society of Neurosurgeons in Oregon), himself an All American football hero while at Northwestern University in Chicago–unless you knew all this, you would never understand why Lawrence did what he did. There is not a cowardly ounce in his body, except his fear of God. Some of you have the moral intelligence to sense there is something unusual about this story. Indeed my friends, it is an exceptional story, parable like in a biblical sense. Most, if not all of you, missed the message in the New York Times interview with Lawrence. He said the only reason he did not commit an arranged suicide at Fort Drum in New York was his belief that suicide was a sin against God and Jesus Christ, who he believes literally exists, and he could not destroy his mother, father, and brothers and sister. It would have been like stabbing them to death. I know. Really. I have known the family since he was 3 years old. I am sure Lawrence, this astonishing young man I knew as a little boy, made a compelling rational decision in… Read more »
How easy is to judge someone you don’t even know. So, cast stones all of you…..