On “getting over ourselves”
Chief Tango sends us a link to the Washington Beacon article about an employee at a Public Radio station in Binghamton, NY who was fired because that employee sent an email to the campaign of Rep. Chris Gibson (R., N.Y.) who also happens to be a retired Army colonel with four tours of Iraq under his belt. The email supposedly reads;
A WIOX employee used the press release to express his annoyance with Gibson’s career as a member of the military.
“Cool,” a WIOX staffer wrote in response. “Someday maybe he will find a real job like the rest of us and not live off the taxpayers [sic] money as he has done his whole life.”
I’ll admit that it was a pretty crappy thing to say and the writer is probably an illiterate asshole, but, what concerns me is the underlying issue here. That issue being that members and former members of the armed services are above criticism, and that it will cost your job to criticize them. Yeah, we have taken a lot of shit from the 99%, but a politician who runs on his military career shouldn’t be above criticism. Apparently, the Gibson campaign released the email to the media and that’s how we found out about all of this.
Coincidentally, I republished a link from our buddy, Commander Salamander last night on our Facebook page to some acclaim, that blog post was entitled “Really, some of us really need to get over ourselves” some of us referring to veterans. He quotes from Carl Forsling at Task & Purpose and so will I;
Many veterans pull the vet card anytime a civilian upsets them, be that at a government office, a bar, or a traffic stop. But the worst examples are at retail establishments. If Home Depot doesn’t give a non-active-duty veteran 10% off every single day, or Sears has a hard time processing your free gift card, guess what? They didn’t have to give special treatment to vets in the first place. So when the minimum-wage ticket clerk at an amusement park doesn’t allow you to take a fourth family member in for free admission, don’t lecture her about your extensive deployment experience.
If you have a legitimate gripe about a store’s discount policy, politely ask to see a copy. If it doesn’t include your service status or the type of ID you have, then stop. Just stop there. If you think it should include you, then calmly ask to speak to a manager. If that doesn’t work, then write a simple, concise e-mail to their corporate headquarters. No one, including other veterans, wants to hear an angry vet venting about an imaginary slight, whether in person or in a poorly-conceived YouTube or Facebook post. You’re spoiling it for everyone else. That advice goes double for spouses.
“I was in Afghanistan/Iraq/wherever” is not an answer to anything other than, “So where did you serve?” Also, no one, in or out of the military, wants to hear your story about indirect fire at the forward operating base. Let it go.
“So how will everyone know that I’m a badass soldier/Marine/sailor/airman?” Well, if you really are such a force to be reckoned with, people will know. Regaling them with unsolicited tales of bravado isn’t helping anybody. If you want to prove you’re a stand-up guy, do it with your actions, not your words.
Yeah, we’re all proud of our service and probably the only place we talk about it is here amongst ourselves and no one here shoves their war stories down everyone else’s throat because we’ve had the same experiences, we’ve all done things that the civilians can’t even imagine, but I really hate it when some of those among us use their service as a shield.
A certain Reverend Doctor comes to mind. If you watched his dumbass video, when the cops were knocking on the door of the car in which he was sleeping, at night, in a public park, the first words out of his mouth were “I’m a veteran and I have PTSD”. Honestly, I hate that.
Now, I’ll be the first to admit that I’m an asshole, and the Army made me the best asshole I can be, but, that’s what I am, I’m not going to hide behind my service in the Army to escape criticism. I’m certainly not going to get someone fired because they criticized me.
Yet, it’s better now than it was during the post-Vietnam Era when veterans of that war were shamed into silence about their careers – that ended when the Vietnam Wall was erected in DC, and the idiots came out of the woodwork. And we see it everyday here – those who did the least are the loudest about how they should be treated better by the civilians.
Many of the people here suffer from PTS, but you’d never know it. Some of you have written to us in private emails and told us how being a member of this small community have helped them deal with their problems. We have members here who have served in every US combat action since the Korean War, because, to some degree, we’ve all experienced the same things. Separately, but equally. But, we’re not shoving it down the throats of non-veterans, and yes, we have some of them among us, too.
But there are others, you can all name one, who begin every sentence with the fact that they’re “100% disabled combat Purple Heart trail assassin”. As CDR Salamander and Mr Forsling (a Marine MV-22B instructor pilot, by the way) that should only be the answer to an appropriate question, not the way to shield yourself from the realities of the world.
In summation, Mr. Gibson should announce that the inappropriate email to his campaign should not be the cause for that public radio employee’s firing. I’d hate that we live up (or down) to the expectations of the general public and bully them with our service. Over.
Category: Veterans Issues
I servedwith Chris Gibson in the 82d Airborne Division in the early 90’s. He could excel at anything he wanted to do. NPR? Enough said!
I raely pull the VET card.
However, when a civilian pisses me off I remind them of what I am cut from and how can out work, drink, study, perform and play most in a 36 hour day that preceeds another 36 hour shift!
Thanks for this post. It really pisses me off to hear about how a politician’s service in Vietnam means they wield absolute papal-esque rhetorical infallibility on foreign policy (John Kerry/Al Gore somewhat), how it’s a disgraceful witch hunt to try a Vietnam fighter ace for taking millions in bribes as a legislator (Cunningham), how a military career allows you moral kudos to plagiarize a Master’s Thesis (Walsh), and how six months at Bagram as a bulk fuel specialist means you get to cut the entire line at the DMV (not, of course, that you don’t deserve the accolades of a grateful nation for that honorable service).
Agree totally. My ultraliberal Vietnam vet brother once threw at me the fact that Jeremiah Wright was in the military. Of course, that was meant to make me say, “Well, maybe the Rev is right after all!”
I just replied that being a veteran does NOT inoculate one from being a total asshole.
“Someday maybe he will find a real job like the rest of us and not live off the taxpayers [sic] money as he has done his whole life.” – NPR radio employee.
NPR: National Public Radio
The irony – and the hypocricy (and/or stupidity) – in that comment is breathtaking. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.
Hondo I saw that too.
Can’t make it up!
Hondo…+100!!!
Concur. I’m rarely at a loss for words, but I had to sit here and just all that percolate for a couple minutes to accept that THAT guy really said THAT. Pure double-facepalm worthy.
NPR = Nuthatch Partisan Radio!
And as for the “real job” aspect – IMO John Glenn answered that canard best years ago:
http://video.wosu.org/video/2365048711/
Transcript
God, reading that gave me goosebumps. I just hope I can remember where to find this the next time I hear this tripe.
Thanks for posting that, I hadn’t heard it before either. I got goosebumps too.
I will have to keep that one handy on my phone.
“Now, I’ll be the first to admit that I’m an asshole, and the Army made me the best asshole I can be, but, that’s what I am, I’m not going to hide behind my service in the Army to escape criticism.”
Jonn you have a way with words. I too am an asshole. I know its true, people tell me all the time. If I give the Army credit for making me the best asshole I could be, does that make me special? I think not. I’m starting to wonder if asshole-ery is pretty common. Along with poorly illuminated wits and fido fornication.
All three are common. It’s part of the human condition, and the best of us try to keep them in check, most of the time.
There’s a big difference between being an asshole and being a functional asshole. Plenty of people don’t know how to focus it properly to provide purpose, motivation, and direction.
Plenty of people also think its “cool” to be an asshole and are one for absolutely no purpose or function.
That is true in the military and the civilian world.
There are plenty of fakers who are doing it and don’t have a clue how to do it, but don’t care because they get to be assholes.
I guess I can find no fault with what you, Jonn, wrote, or Commander Salamander.
I don’t pull the Vet card. I don’t feel right using it for a free meal or free coffee on Veterans Day, or for discounts at big box hardware stores, etc. I wasn’t raised that way by my Vietnam Veteran dad. Maybe it’s because of when I grew up, as well.
However, if you’re going to hang your hat on your service, when you run for public office, then you had better be ready to get some static from the limp wristed types. Grow thicker skin and drive on.
Only once did I pull the vet card. My daughter and I had been hiking in central North Carolina. After what was a long and hot day she wanted to stop for fast food. As we were eating two young men walked to the register. One had his pants just about falling off. My daughter (about 9 years old at the time) pointed it out to me. She said he shouldn’t be seen like that. I turned and in my fatherly stern voice shouted “Son! I didn’t spend 22 years in the Army to come in here and look at your ass.” They turned and looked at me and I yelled “Fix it now”. The one with the sagging pants pulled his up and the normal one pulled his up even more. I thanked them and finished eating. After we left my daughter told me not to embarrass her again. I’ve tried not to.
Nice going James, glad to see some kids still have respect for their elders.
However, I’m guessing you were typing with one hand and crossing your fingers with the other when you typed “I’ve tried not to” brother. You have a daughter, you will embarrass her plenty I’m sure…
In my opinion Forsling comes across as arrogant and preachy in his blog post. Given his background, I find his opinion lacking insight and consider it largely irrelevant to the experiences of average veterans. Bottom line is you’ve got to let Joe be Joe. Let Joe have his bumper stickers, war stories, discounts and most of all: Let him have his pride. For some of these guys, that pride, those discounts; that’s all they have. Who is Forsling to mock them for it?
I currently work at Home Depot. And have for years, even when I was active duty, and later when I was a civilian contractor. For a retail establishment, it’s not a bad company to work for. Once you learn the system.
I’ve always had heartburn with the military discount, even though I’m entitled to ask for it. For myself, I only ask for it when my purchase is above $50. It covers the taxes.
But, I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve seen it abused by self-indulgent assholes. Over less then a $1. Seriously, dude? You’re giving veterans a bad rep.
Otoh, I’ve given my discount to customers because it was the right thing to do. An older couple came in and purchased over $5k in flooring product. During our conversation, I learned that their son was on his 5th deployment to the ME, as an interpreter. When it came time to ring up the sale, I applied the military discount and saved them a large chunk. It was my way of saying “thanks for their son’s service”.
Jonn…Sorry I’m coming late to the thread. Thank you and well said. I agree completely.
I look at veterans’ discounts as an “Oh, by the way” sort of thing. If a place offers one, fine. If a place doesn’t offer one, that’s fine too.
One time, Mrs Dennis – not chevy had to buy something that was quite a bit more expensive than even the store that it would be. The sales rep asked if we belonged to any organizations. I happened to have been a member of a veteran’s organization and, “Oh, by the way, here’s my membership card”. “Bingo”, the sales rep said, “that’s good for 25% off”.
Maybe a store gives discounts for being a member of the water buffalo lodge for good relations and repeat sales. Who cares, it’s their business.
When I hear a pseudo-vet chewing out some young member of a wait staff because he can’t get a discount for having had KP detail at the last supper, that just pisses me off no end.
“In summation, Mr. Gibson should announce that the inappropriate email to his campaign should not be the cause for that public radio employee’s firing. I’d hate that we live up (or down) to the expectations of the general public and bully them with our service. Over.”
I hate to say this, but I find this terribly ironic.
TAH does a good (if not great) job signaling out phonies who use fake or embellished military service to add weight to their self-esteem, opinions or enrichments.
In this case, an employee used the station’s email account to send an email advocating a position the station did not hold. He sent the email using the station’s official email account to add weight to his opinion and embellish the stature of that opinion.
In short, he faked being the official spokesperson for the station.
I realize that you may be focusing on what he said, but I see very little difference is faking titles and awards in the military and faking titles and positions in the private sector.
If the author’s email had said something positive about Gibson, the author still has to go.
You cannot have official statements being made by unauthorized people in an organization.
You cannot have people faking to be a spokesperson for the organization without consequences.
In this case, the consequences are losing a job.
I don’t think this is an instance of pulling any vet card, and I think NPR did the appropriate thing. The staffer should be fired *regardless* of whether Gibson approves or not.
The reason is this. The comments were made on the *official* NPR account. That means it’s no longer an issue of speech rights or anything like that. It means that this becomes an official NPR statement. It’s like calling the President an asshole while in uniform. You may have every right to say that while off duty, but not while representing the service.
The same thing is true here. If NPR *didn’t* fire, or otherwise severely punish this guy, it would then become an NPR position. The problem isn’t *what* this guy wrote, but *where* he wrote it.
Pride in one’s service is one thing, when it crosses over into a sense of entitlement, that’s another. Sure, I served for a number of years and put a lot into it…and I received both tangible and intangible benefits in return. I’m still mad as the next veteran when politicos steal or propose stealing promised benefits.
Free meals, bleah. Home Depot and Lowes discount? Sure, the store is receiving positive marketing value from it, may as well save money on home improvements. I’ve spent so much money there, they should give me assigned parking near the front door.
I see no connection between the two articles.
The NPR tool has a bug up his ass aout the Military and Gibson wasn’t the one who put it there.
I imagine if the idiot would have made the same remark about a teacher, cop or city sanitation worker the same thing would have happened.
Yeah, except people in those jobs are unlikely to one day be seated in Congress with the potential be on the House Appropriations Committee. Gibson, however, is a Critter and may be on that committee one day with the Corporation for Public Broadcasting asking for more money. (Personally, I don’t get the beef, otherwise. Some wise ass made a stupid comment and was fired for that? Gnat. Sledgehammer.)
People in those jobs often are part of unions that have congress critters in their pockets.
Interesting article, but considerably better sentiments Jonn. I think the only difficult part for those of us who are reasonable is straddling the line of being proud of our service and not using it as a crutch to be assholes. I think that if more of us tried to not let people rub us the wrong way, the better off we’d all be.
I think about the NCO creed whenever my wife urges me to use my military discount. I will not use my rank or position to attain pleasure, profit or personal safety. I think it applies.
Well, at least I’m still of Lilyea’s dickweeds. When you got that, what else can ya ask for? Only time I’ve used veteran status is on employment applications. Why? Because they ask and potential employers get a tax break upon hire.
Hell, I got more out of my service–and I mean tangible benefits–than I ever deserved. And the benefits are not yet ended. They still have to bury me and give my spouse a free flag. As for discounts, never took one on anything, ever, including the annual free lunch. I don’t begrudge anyone who does. It’s just the way I am about it as, I’m sure, some of you are too.
Just so you guys know, I had an active CAC and took my family to Sea World on one of my visits home…back when I was contracting. It stayed in my pocket. Just don’t want you guys to think I was getting free rides on your backs. It’s not how I roll.
As someone who returned from a tour in Vietnam in 1966, I can tell you for sure the attitude towards veterans was a far cry from what it is today. One reason I left the Army was to finish college on the newly extended G.I. Bill which paid something like $175.00 per month and even that was resented by many non-veteran students. Even the service organizations were problematic because the WWII vets believed the lefty media that portrayed us as drug-crazed baby-killers so the reception was a little chilly for a few years. Those were not good times to be self-identifying as a veteran although I certainly never tried to hide my service. It was only after I got a job marketing pharmaceuticals to military installations, a few years post college, that I began to wear a miniature CIB or jump wings tie tack or lapel pin. And that was to let my clients know that I had been there, done that and understood the procurement system so unlike most of the civilian reps calling on them, I wouldn’t pressure them to purchase anything that was outside their purview. And it worked; I was very successful and later headed up the department. Now some of you may look at that as taking advantage of my veteran’s status but I saw it, and still do, as a good business practice of identifying with my customer base. As far as veteran discounts, I look at them as I do senior discounts: they’re not offering them out of the kindness of their hearts but as a marketing tool to bring your particular demographic into their businesses. I shop a lot with Lowes because they offer the 10% without any hassle, accepting my driver’s license as proof of service. Home Depot on the other hand, can’t get their requirements straight, sometimes accepting my DL, which here in Arkansas confirms your vet status, and sometimes not, requiring an actual DD-214. So screw Home Depot. And we’re not talking peanut purchases here; in the past decade I’ve spent close to $50,000 with Lowes so my discounts… Read more »
Pretty much my reasoning as well, although much better expressed than I likely could have offered. [grin]
I have never waved some card demanding special treatment, but I ain’t rich enough to turn down a discount if offered. That includes a plain old Senior Discount.
Shucks, I won’t even take the handicapped card out of the glove box unless I’m having a REALLY bad day.
I tweeted the CDR Salamander link last night. Thanks for the rehash.
Wow, do I feel left out. I was freakin thrilled that Texas puts veteran on our drivers license, CHL, and had nifty honorably discharged US Navy veteran license plates. I’m a happy clam.
I was at the Museum of the Pacific War in Fredericksburg TX last week and briefly expressed a few tidbits of WWII US Navy knowledge. I was asked if I served, then was warmly thanked for my service. My standard reply, “US Navy service was my honor and privilege. Honestly, I probably got more out of them than they ever got out of me.”
Having been a part of something far greater than oneself is reward enough for me, even a cold warrior swabbie such as myself.
Posted for the enjoyment of all us ‘asshole’s’.
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i6OrOZwtmA&w=420&h=315%5D
I think the only time I’ve heard/seen anybody pull the Vet card is at the VA (or online, on Facebook or forums). The first American Legion post I belonged to was the Brookline Post in Pittsburgh which has (had) lots of legit warfighters and they didn’t tolerate any bullshit loudmouths. On the other hand, I’ve been to other AL posts that seemed to be made up of Monkress and Round Marine clones. So yeah, I get the whole humility message, but one element of the NPR kerfuffle is something I’ve seen a bunch of–a lot of civilians really resent the military, not just the pay and retirement benefits, but the respect and prestige that come with a successful tour or career. Now that I’m retired I see it even more. It seems to be socially acceptable now to bash military retirees as greedy leeches who are never satisfied with their 1% COLA and constantly eroding healthcare benefit. I recently moved to Tucson from DC and am renting a house until my daughter finishes high school. The 30-something property management company rep ran a credit check and over the course of the 3 hours it took to get the rental application approved, she must have asked me three times “what the hell did you do to deserve that much money?” She even made a point to tell me that she really hated knowing that her taxes were paying my retirement check. I’ve only been here three months, but I get that vibe from a lot of folks in a military, but very liberal city. A lot of guys (and women) I know keep their service history to themselves, unless they’re among friendlies. I was always ready to talk about my 30+ year career when I was in DC, but I won’t bring it up here under normal social circumstances. Out here, you can pretty much guarantee that if there are three other people in the room, at least one of them is unhappy with the military and it might be all three. Due diligence and scrutiny by TAH, Scotty and Senior… Read more »
I take exception to the statement that exposing Posers like TAH, Scotty and SCPO Shipley makes a “substantial portion” of the public veiw veterans in a bad light.
The portion of the public that bases there opinion of veterans on the actions of FAKE veterans are too fucking stupid to have their opinions mean anything.
It’s just like the fucktards who hate all cops because people expose the shitty ones.
Just An Old Dog: he is correct regarding Tucson. It’s often referred to as capital of the “People’s Republic of Pima County” for good reason.
Lived in the region for many years, and made a load of trips there. Beautiful place, but the population in that city had their heads collectively up their 4th point of contact.
I’ve been a little uncomfortable with much of the “hero” stuff over the last few years regarding anyone in the military, both from the general public and members of the military. My service began during “that crazy asian war” and ended with Gulf War 1. From being a “baby-killer” with no greetings returning from deployment to flotillas of small-craft greeting the ship with screaming and waving people. I was glad of the change from being considered a pariah to being appreciated. But I always considered my profession as just that – a trained professional performing tasks “at the pointy-end of national policy” for my country and, while very honorable, no more than a pro doing his work. I am very concerned that the “hero” label will be over-used and mis-used like the cops and firefighters do – many cops and firefighters seem to believe and promote themselves as god-like 9/11 heroes deserving some special accolades because of being in the same profession that the true heroes of 9/11 well deserved. Sorry but just because a person chooses to be in a line of work does not automatically entitle them to treatment as heroes – I was not a hero by any means, just a guy doing the job I chose to do. I was not a hero like friends of mine in the stinking jungles of Vietnam, nor like my Marine son in Kuwait. It’s nice to be appreciated and thanks for that but, jeeze, sometime it’s really overdone and may backfire for all of us down the road. My $.02 worth.
I can agree with what you’ve said. This past week, a woman spotted me wandering the aisles at a looking for hardware items at Lowes, came up and handed me a business size card thanking me for my service and being a “hero”, too. Politely listening to her and reading the card, when she finished I put it in my pocket and thanked her, then explained to her the hero’s she was adoring are those buried in places such as Arlington, Benning, Houston, other national and many small town cemeteries across the country. I thanked her again for the card though and parted ways.
When I use the “But I’m a veteran damnit” line, it’s usually said as a joke and only with my wife. And usually it’s a sarcastic comment on some professional veteran’s actions. And the wife usually tells me me “You’re not a veteran, you’re still serving.”
I don’t think I’ve ever used any of the trappings available. I don’t ask. I don’t have vet plates. I certainly don’t think I’m entitled to any of it.
Hell, most of my friends and acquaintances didn’t even know I was a vet until I wore a ball cap from my first boat one night. About all the accolades I wanted or got was when one of my fellow poker players asked what I did in the Navy.
I told him, at which point he chuckled and said, “That explains a lot.”
And yeah, the 1st Dickweed Brigade grows daily. Proud member here, dammit!
I don’t have a problem using Veteran’s discounts when they’re offered, but I don’t go out of my way to seek them out. My ex-wife was one of those that brought it up every time she thought it could save a buck and it drove me nuts.I only had one experience with a guy that seemed to feel absolutely entitled to get his ten percent off of everything under the sun. We went to a Pizza Hut for lunch while I was at Ft Hood and he had a bitch fit when they told him they didn’t offer a military discount. Told the waitress that “we wouldn’t be coming back.” Which was news to the rest of us- we ate there about once a week. It embarrasses most of us when someone like that acts as though they are entitled to something. It’s great when they’re offered, but I would never dream of throwing a fit when they’re not. Especially when the amount in question would probably be less than a dollar. Dude was a staff NCO too which made his reaction seem even more petty to me.
Jonn, agree 100% with your sentiments on the whole asshole thing. A side effect of a career in the Marine Corps was becoming a professional asshole. My closest civilian friends (those I have known since before I enlisted) often comment on what an asshole I am. I take it as a compliment and just another benefit of my service. In my current job, working with many retired and former Marines and Sailors, as well as our active duty Sailors, being an asshole is a pre-req!! As for any benefits that I may accrue from my service, I can take them or leave them. Have I used military discounts? Hell yes. If it is offered, I will take it!! Do I go out of my way or raise hell if not offered? Hell no. As to our civilian population and the scorn some of them seem to have towards those of us that served and those that serve now, I will paraphrase a quote from one of my favorite Marines, General James Mattis “when you are in your uniform and see a woman checking you out and she is with her boyfriend, just wink at her, because she just realized she is dating a pussy.” If you did not serve and you have a problem with those who did, that is not my problem. Unless you slander our war dead or combat wounded. Then things are fixin’ to get ugly. I never was much of a street fighter, but I damn sure love to practice. I loved being a Marine. Loved almost everything about it. I will always be very proud of my service. And I get thanked on a regular basis for it. But being an active duty service member is not my life any more. I feel thankful every day that I came through 24 years in one piece and grateful that I was able to render some service to the country that has given me and my family so much. All I expect in return is my monthly thanks from Uncle Sugar and the ability to get on… Read more »
Jonn WIOX is out of Roxbury, in the Catskills. He was fired by WSKG, which is out of Binghamton. Lots of second vacation home metro NYC types in that part of the Catskills/NYS – Binghamton is historically blue collar manufacturing. Agree about the vet status abuse – makes me cringe when I see it. Also agree that he shouldn’t have been fired – we’re all big boys and girls and some random email isn’t going to make me curl up and die.
I don’t do the vet thing. I just wear my minature Ranger Tab either as a collar pin or as a tie tack. Seems to shut folks up about taking trash. Since I have a strange sense of humor, it amuses me that once they see the Tab, they tend to be pretty silent.