Imagine the ROE
The New York Times reports that the President may decide in the next “several days” what he wants to do to rescue the Yazidis, the sect which is trapped on Mount Sinjar in Iraq by ISIS/ISIL/Islamic State troops. Here, you sort out this shit;
Benjamin J. Rhodes, the deputy national security adviser, told reporters on Martha’s Vineyard that President Obama would probably receive recommendations in the next several days about how to mount a rescue operation to help the refugees, who are stranded on a mountaintop surrounded by Sunni militants. He said those recommendations could include the use of American ground troops.
But he drew a distinction between the use of American forces to help a humanitarian mission and the use of troops in the battle against militants from the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, something he said the president had rejected before and continued to oppose.
“What he’s ruled out is reintroducing U.S. forces into combat on the ground in Iraq,” Mr. Rhodes said. He added, using an alternative name for the militant group, that the deployment of ground troops to assist a rescue was “different than reintroducing U.S. forces in a combat role to take the fight to ISIL.”
Yeah, right from the start I have no confidence in anything coming out of that statement. The President will *probably* receive recommendations in *the next several days* about what to do. And the lawyers are focusing on what the definition of *combat* is. This is a rescue from a mountainous region, so I’m guess that there are no airstrips that they can secure so it involves rotary wing aircraft flying over the armed enemy at some point. Do you think the enemy will hold their fire because it’s a rescue mission and not a *combat* operation?
Given that heavily lawyered-up statement above, I can only imagine what the rules of engagement will look like. I’m not a religious person, but I’m praying like crazy for the poor fellows who will offer themselves for the operation.
From MSN:
Among the possibilities are helicopter airlifts and establishing a protected corridor to escort refugees to safety. While acknowledging that “there are dangers involved in any military situation,” Rhodes sought to distinguish a humanitarian rescue mission from deploying combat troops with the aim of “taking the fight to ISIL.
“Those dangers were tragically illuminated when an Iraqi helicopter delivering aid to the Yazidis crashed on Tuesday, killing the pilot and injuring others, including a reporter for The New York Times.
Yeah, those poor troops.
Category: Terror War
I seem to remember another humanitarian mission in Somalia that went to shit. That wasn’t supposed to be a combat mission either, but we ended up trying to nation build. The Moron In Chief will half-ass the effort with fewer troops than is needed, like he’s done everything else, leaving our troops open to attacks by ISIS terrorists who would gleefully take the opportunity to kill as many infidel Americans as they can. And don’t think for a moment they won’t try to capture some of those troops for torture and execution on live television. The idiot in the White House needs to understand, and his sycophants at the Pentagon need to make him understand that if he does reintroduce troops into Iraq, he needs to pull out all the stops.
Exactly. If this is to be done they will have to use no quarter on ISIL.
Give me a one star named Sherman and he can make a march to the mountain. That’s the only way i can see to deal with these jokers. Unless the CIC wants to just tell the Air Force to “Go Nuts”.
Nothing good is going to come of this. This is a quagmire of epic proportions and Obama’s chicken shit actions (or inactions) are going to get good men killed. Mark my words, when it’s all done, it will have been completely half assed, good men will have payed the price and ISIS/L will have a propaganda win.
I think ISIS has set the conditions for a big big ambush. This is a humanitarian, genocide, and religious situation tailor made for “Responsibility to Protect” and ISIS knows it, and knows it’s almost irresistible for this administration. I think they would take very high casualties to shoot down US aircraft. I am not saying we should help these people, but sure looks like a set-up in that sense. After all ISIS could have gone into those mountains anytime and killed all those people very easily.
It should read “I’m not saying we shouldn’t help”.
Oh, I know exactly how it will read.
“Contain, not destroy.”
God, I feel sorry for our troops. They’re being thrown hog-tied into a meatgrinder with the full knowledge and consent of the CinC.
roflmao
Why does this administration keep telegraphing military operations to Islamists?
They did the exact same shit in Afghanistan before their big surge. I think Hussein is worried about his Muslim sons more than he’s worried about anything else.
“Why does this administration keep telegraphing military operations to Islamists?”
That’s what I want to know. Just do it, don’t announce it to the world.
Just another case of that spineless bastard putting his finger in the wind.
As a Nam rotorhead, NAPE all around the mountain just before the helos come in for extaction. Lots of snakes in the air top cover. Sidenote, my wet dream is warthog for fire suppression on one of my interesting LZs in Nam. Snakes are Heuy Corbas. Joe
Joe,as another old Nam dog I like the way you’re thinking here. however, I’d take it a bit further. In 1966, my Airborne infantry company conducted patrols into areas where the B-52’s of Arc Light had conducted their carpet bombing raids. The result was a moonscape where nothing remained alive.
We could do the same thing to these ISIS assholes with the Bufs we have on Diego Garcia but that would require a CinC with a pair of balls, so I guess that’s out.
I met a FAC from Vietnam once. He said that he always called B-52’s in before he would let troops go into certain areas.
He also said that it was a body parts recovery mission after they did that bit of mission.
That is the way they should have all been run in Vietnam…
My hearts go out to all of you that served over there. I went to Alaska instead of Vietnam.
I was too young to go.
Take a few extra days …
Food, water and conditions on scene don’t matter.
Considering they have been there now (some) for over 30 days … Hell a few more days won’t hurt.
Let us know, say Monday, after 4 or 8 rounds of golf …
How can youse guys be so cynical about the ROE? I’ll have you know Nancy Pelosi is working on it right now with her grandson. Nana says they should have a rough draft done before bedtime.
The Kurds are taking Yazidi into Syria. Provide cover for them – LOTS OF COVER – and do it by night. We still have moonlight. Stealth mission.
Oh, and drop incendiaries in the general area of ISers, especially where they seem to gather in clusters, only do it at night. If necessary, blow the Mosul dam. The ISers already own it. Blow the dam to hell and back.
Can you tell I’m not in a good mood about this?
We could destroy IS, it wouldn’t be without cost, but we could do it easily enough-a perimeter set by our forces set ready to deploy and air and artillery would accomplish a great deal in fairly short order.
But we lack the will and the election and re-election of President mom jeans is proof enough of that. The only thing that most people know is that they don’t want “boots on the ground” even though most of them have no real idea what that entails. God, what a mess.
“In the next several days” – I won’t say they’re hoping the Yazidis get overrun, I’m just saying they’re hoping the problem will go away on its own before they make a call.
The admin doesn’t care if the ROE are so constraining that we take casualties. They’ve continually shown just how little they care about military personnel and vets, how much they think of our volunteer army as victims. Their attitude that only idiots, the poor, psychopaths, the gullible, and right wingnuts join the military (and really, they more-or-less lump them all together). Their condescension (and occasionally outright fear) of the military bleeds through in their statements and policies on a regular basis.
To them, its “so what if those cro-magnon morons get killed? Isn’t that what the idiots signed up for?” These guys only care what casualties will do to their public approval ratings, how it could look bad for the administration.
Where would we get enough chinooks for that. Where wuld they launch from, refuel and then offload. I guess u could get pre positioned fuel on the mountain before hand. Are they gonna off load in the Kurdish north? They could take them to Jordan. What a mess. A HBCT and robbust air could have avoided all this but Barry was asleep at the wheel.
My last deployment was during the drawdown in Kuwait in 2011. There was (and I assume still is) a BCT in Kuwait specifically for “emergencies”. Well, if this doesn’t qualify as an emergency I don’t know what does. What a clown show.
More from The Make Shit Up book that Nutless in Chief keeps in the lower left desk drawer. The ROEs I’d like to see is a devastatingly use of Napalm followed by B52 carpet bombing all the way to the border and into Syria.
So …. nothing about Mosul’s Assyrian Christians who, facing crucifixion or beheading, fled like the Yazidis? Oooooops … did I say the “C” word out loud? I was supposed to say a “minority religious group”.
humpf!
rgr1480…Roger that and Amen. God help those Christians because Obama sure as heck won’t.
Hey, “don’t fire unless fired upon” isn’t necessarily a bad ROE…
So long as no one cares how much force you send back their way.
If you want a laugh, Google Mr. Rhodes. For a Deputy National Security Advisor he has the thinnest resume in the capital. He was a speechwriter, he is married to Diane Feinstein’s national security advisor, and his brother is president of nbc news. He has a MFA in creative writing and wrote Obama’s Cairo speech “A New Beginnings”. Can you say “Spinning” boys and girls?
I can see it now. The IS group, knowing we are coming soon, will wait and not overrun the Yazidis people. Why? They have a great opportunity to now catch a bunch of American aircraft and troops vulnerable and out in the open. The “Hey guys, we’re basically mall rent a cops here according to our President. Just coming to evacuate these poor folks before you can rape, torture, bury alive and behead them. So how bout a break and just let us do our job. Sound good to you guys?”. Yea that’s gonna happen. These IS troops and all available equipment will be in place to kill everyone and anyone who gets close enough to fire anything they have at.
God bless and help our troops assigned to this duty and I mean that sincerely. I feel badly for them already and it hasn’t even happened yet. This is a recipe for disaster of epic proportions. The loss in American lives will be heavy if done according to every other Obama plan.
Unless they are planning for IS to do as I predict and waste them and everything near those mountains ahead of time. But with Obama’s bid to “drive them back and not destroy them” from his previous statements, I doubt that. The ROE will be do not to fire unless fired upon. Do not launch air strikes from (God please have them there as part of this operation) strike aircraft cover to include jets, AC-130s, Apaches and A-10s. But once they are close enough to fire small arms the hand writing is on the wall. Without a huge force for the extraction, which will take a substantial amount of time to organize with the locals there and then accomplish, as well as a huge force to protect all of them, this is going to be like Somalia. Only worse by an order of magnitude.
I only hope and pray if they do this they will do it right. But I am pipe dreaming again.
Don’t you just love an asswipe like Mr. Rhodes lecturing the dangers of mil ops to a bunch of J School grads. Hells bells, I just as soon one of the posers outed on this site deliver the lecture. At least the poser may have actually read about such endeavors. regards, Alemaster
Obummer and his boys seem to be playing the board game “Risk” to formulate strategy.
And maybe a little Nintendo to boot…
Clowns.
This is what happens when you surround yourself with nothing but academia.
So none of you guys ever heard of decoys? Broken wing maneuvers? Broken field running? Just askin’.
Well, this bit from DoD came up on my ‘breaking news’ section: US assessment team determines evacuation mission for refugees in Iraq not likely; humanitarian aid to continue – @DeptofDefense
Per the Guardian, we have SF and Marines on Mt. Sinjar as speak, their is an unused airfield that was used during the Iraq war on the top of the ridgeline. They flew in on V-22’s and being protected by the Kurds. Let us just hope that we have a few AC-130’s and A-10 close by.
That is if we have not deactivated all of the A-10’s.
Damn tough and useful aircraft in many theaters.
Present included.
Also, some Brit SAS in the area.
SECDEF Chuckie Hagel said today that the “The world is exploding all over”. I thought Dear Leader said recently that everything was calm now. I’m so confused and don’t know who to believe. /s
On the tee box, everything is calm-that is the whole world to “the one”.
ROE.
1. Get all available aid as far as food, waterm shelter and medical aid to the refugees.
2. Kill anyone that so much as looks at you cross-eyed.
Well, at least we know the general layout of the area – hard to believe 10 years ago I was on Sinjar in about 4 feet of snow – how times change…
Wait!! Hold it!! It’s official!! According to the White House, the siege is over!
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/14/iraq-evacuation-of-yazidis-on-hold-as-us-says-situation-has-stabilised
Siege? What siege? I don’t think that word means what they think it means.
OK, if there is a break in which the Yazidi can find a way to safety, I’m good with that, but to me, this is that old ‘pull back, regroup and strike again’ thing, but this time, by the ISers.
It ain’t over til the fat lady done sung.
My experience dates from NVN, so guys with experience on the ground in Iraq & Afghanistan correct me if I’m way off base. It seems that there’s something different going on with ISIS. They seem to be acting more like a traditional army than guerilla/terror groups that we’ve been facing in the past. They’re moving in larger groups, more in the open and taking and holding real estate. This seems to me to leave them vulnerable to more traditional attack.
What say the local experts?
Not been to either iraq of Afghanistan, but my observation ISIS is pretty froggy because they have been able to stand up to The Syrian Army and Iraqi forces.
They also have a number of their fighters ( including their recently killed commander) who fought the Russians in Chechnya.
They have had some experience, and success against “organized” forces that use armor artillery and air.
That being said I think they have no idea that fighting the US military after that is like going from fighting Pee Wee Herman to Mike Tyson.
There was a reason that Al Queda and the Taliban used insurgency.
The first “Battalion sized” or larger ISIS unit that launches a conventional infantry attack will be turned to red mist within 20 minutes.
Old Dog, I sincerely hope you are right.
My pa (LtCol D) veteran of WWII, Korea and Vietnam, taught me there’s really only one rule of engagement.
Kill more of them than they kill of you until they don’t want to kill no more.
Here ended the lesson
It’s a fact that we currently have THE WORST excuse for leadership in DC than we’ve ever had in US History, instead of pussy-footing around with snot-spined PC ROE’s, we need to plow through there like GEN Patton did to the Nazis! But alas, once again, I’m “Preaching to the choir”, GOD HELP AMERICA!!
Why do I have flashes of Desert One?
Same reason I have flashes of VN, Ish.
There’s just no jungle for the ISers to hide in.
I think the interesting takeaway here is that the President said there would be no re- introduction of ground combat forces into Iraq.
If I was a young troop, I would be packing my shit and getting ready for ground combat in Iraq. Because everything this ass clown says has an expiration date….everything!!