Go west, young Dan, go west
Washington Redskin’s owner, Daniel Snyder, has been targeted by the speech police for his heresy in refusing to bow to their politically correct demands to rename his team. What a turn of events it has been to watch the Redskins circling their wagons into a defiant defense while chiefly white, whooping, wild-eyed elitists and liberal journalists spin madly around them firing salvo after salvo of barbed accusations of resolute racism into their beleaguered organization. When their socially-slanted spears failed to strike any vital organs, their frustrated leaders called in the cavalry. Federal forces quickly moved to strip those cheeky Redskins of their precious (and profitable) heritage. While we can only suspect that this disabling decree was the work of the Great Father in Washington, there are some who are convinced they can smell the sulphurous residue of his political effluents all around it.
Okay, enough Indian stuff; excuse me, Native American allusions. As someone who was raised in Indian Territory after it was renamed Oklahoma – which by the way, in the Choctaw language, means red people – may I suggest to that young billionaire owner of the Washington Redskins, Daniel Snyder, that he load up his wagons and go west. After all, the state of Oklahoma’s name is about as close as you can get to that of your team and the proximity to Dallas would really ramp up that old Red River rivalry to fever status. Just imagine that headline: Oklahoma Redskins scalp Dallas Cowboys. And, hey, that’s coming from a lifelong Cowboys fan.
Of one thing you can be certain, Dan, almost every living person in Oklahoma claims to be a descendant of one tribe or another. Probably every politician and bean counter you’d have to deal with in negotiating the team’s move to Oklahoma City would be susceptible to a subtle gratuity such as a Native American discount on season tickets, the greater the DNA proof, the deeper the discount. Think about it Dan, with Oklahoma City being so centrally located, every home game could be a statewide tribal gathering, possibly making your organization eligible for some form of federal largesse reserved for organizations engaged in outreach to Native America. Install a tribal politico in senior management and you might qualify as a minority-run business.
Come to think of it, the name Dan is associated with the lost tribes of Israel and I see on your Wikipedia page that you are Jewish. Are you aware that there are some who believe the Five Civilized Tribes are descended from those lost tribes of Israel? Not only may you be able to qualify as the NFL’s first and only Native American owner, but even better, you may even be related to Fauxahontas.* Goodness, how much more incentive do you need than that to leave all those ingrate, coastal elites who have no appreciation of your heritage or your investment?
Paint your wagons, Dan, with that proud, all-American logo and go west, young Dan, go west.
*It would appear you lack the requisite high cheekbones, but, hey, if John Kerry can afford his complete overhaul, surely you can as well.
Crossposted at American Thinker
Category: Politics
Poetrooper…Great article! I am so fed up with this political correctness mayhem running rampant on our country. You know if Dan would appeal to the local tribes in his area I am sure he could get the same support from them. A word form them and it would shit down the white, liberal leftists who are out to “protect and defend the sanctity of the Native American”. Of course let’s not say they are really native Americans. Native Americans are the Europeans who colonized this continent. Indians on this continent when the whites arrived are more properly defined as “aboriginal people”, like in Australia. If you want to call them Aboriginal Americans, I’m good with it. If the Canadians call the Eskimos, Inuit and Metis people aboriginal, then why are the original peoples of the United States the same? Let’s call them what they are and not what we are told to see them as, as dictated by the left and even the North American Aboriginal Tribes themselves.
From Merriam Webster:
Aboriginal 1. of or relating to the people and things that have been in a region from the earliest time
I really fat fingered a few sentences in that last post. Sorry I hope it still makes the sense and point I was aiming for.
In my chosen faith, as a convert in The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints, i.e., the “Mormon” church, it is my belief that the Garden of Eden was located in America, and therefore, all people originated here.
After the Flood, some of the people at the Tower of Babylon migrated to America, and centuries later, at least two (02) groups of Israelite refugees migrated to America, all of which is recorded in THE BOOK OF MORMON.
American Indian oral tradition admits that their ancestors migrated here.
How shall we explain the origins of, “Spirit Cave man”, or, “Kennewick man”?
What of the numerous Viking and/or Irish structures and/or artifacts discovered here in America?
Gosh, gee whillikers, I put my reply in the WRONG place!
First let me point out that Oklahoma IS the “land of the red people”, and that’s where it got its name. But… honesty requires us to point out that they are only there because they were forcibly removed from their ancestral homeland far away and required to move there.
So…. let’s just change the name of the team. Why can’t why be honest and admit that the name wasn’t an “honor”? It was and is a racial slur. Period.
Haji. Spook. Jig. Wop. Dago. Greaser. We all know….
Tom Stedham…With all due respect I understand the point you are making. However I disagree that “Redskins” is a racial slur. The others you named yes to some and maybe to others. Greaser was not a racial slur where I grew up. It defined a certain congregation of high school kids who leaned towards a certain “look, attitude and behavior”. The same with nerds, geeks and bookworms. They may not be pleasant to hear but they are not racial. Neither do I believe redskin to be racial in the context it is used regarding the football team. In fact it was meant to invoke the pride and strong warrior attributes of the Native American Indians. Just my opinion here.
Time for an English lesson:
Redskin is a racial slur. I making a statement of fact. If you disagree then you are most likely uniformed, but don’t worry, my taxpayer-funded education is here to save you. In the English language, we assign disdain using gutteral stops, most often a hard ‘k’ or hard ‘g’. Think of any racial slur off the top of your head…I’ll wait. Was there a hard ‘k’ or ‘g’? I bet there was. Go ahead, think of some more. The only exception to this rule are racial slurs that have a specific meaning, such as Wop (an acronym for With Out Papers, referring to Italian immigrants in the 19th century). Sometimes it’s not even a racial slur with a hard ‘k’ or ‘g’; my old XO used to frequently use the term ‘cocksucker’ every time he got his panties in a wad (ironically, he was a closet homosexual, this was before DADT was repealed). It wasn’t because he thought the persons he was addressing sucked any cocks. Rather, the two gutteral stops in a row conveyed his disdain/frustration in relation to the individual.
‘Redskin’ meets the two main criteria for a racial slur, those being the identification of a distinguishing feature and a gutteral stop.
I’m the last person in the world to align myself with the thought police, but when you take the name combined with the fact that the original owner of the team was an outspoken rascist who had to be literally forced to allow black men to play on his team…well, if it walks like a duck, quaks like a duck, et cetera.
The fact that the football team for the nation’s capitol is still a racial slur (again, I’m making a statement of fact) sullies the league, the sport, and the country.
Time for a tiny lesson in the language of the plains indians, Greg. From a white boy that grew up among and ran with various families of Sioux. Actually, in order to be accepted by them and their extended families I had to earn respect and did so through various tests of character, courage, dignity, skill and honor.
So here goes. The Sioux Nations include Ogala, Hunkpapa, Cheyenne, Dahkota and Lahkota’s. Gutteral stop is used with vowels and consonents in the Dahkota/Lahkota/Nahkota dialects which the nations I listed earlier are part of.
Some words do have a hard letter but, it depends on whom is to whom, male to female or female to male in conotation.
Male to male has an entirely different conotation and meaning such as this greeting you and me might use upon meeting each other, “Hau’ ko’ la'”.
The point is, watch your hard letter usage and pay attention to your vowels and consonants. Otherwise, you may get a bunch of blank looks possibly followed up with a small amount of hearty laughter and an unfavorable action towards you.
As a young man, I was fortunate enough to be able to attend the Sun Dance up to Pine Ridge and met many tribal elders. One of them, James Holy Eagle, used to come and spend a few weeks each year with my family down to northern Utah.
Anyway, NONE of them referred to themselves as “Native Americans”. They all used the terms “Indian(s)” or “Redskins”.
Those folks who think it is a derisive or racial slur need to get over themselves and let the REAL Indians make their case. More than 90% have no problem with the team using the name “Redskins”.
I guess the white devils of the leftist diversity industry haven’t “civilized” them enough yet.
Was I giving a lesson in the language of the plains indians? I didn’t know ‘red’ and ‘skin’ were words in those idioms as well, my bad.
Oh wait, I was talking about the English language. I thought I had been quite explicit on that point. Many languages use guttural stops more often than English (German, Turkish, and Japanese come to mind), and this rule does not apply. The tribe my grandmother comes from (that’s right) even has a hard ‘k’ in the name, but the name isn’t in ENGLISH. Once again, I’m taking about the ENGLISH LANGUAGE, in which we use guttural stops to assign disdain. This extends not only to racial slurs, but also to epithets for homosexuals (of both genders), et cetera. Why do you think women find the word ‘cunt’ so much worse than ‘bitch’? Is it the literal meanings of the words themselves (a vagina vs. a female canine), or could it perhaps be the hard ‘k’ followed closely by another stop at the ‘t’? I feel like it’s the latter, but hey, what do I know.
Exactly – what DO you know? You have a theory, but the assumptions are not correct in my experience, understanding, or knowledge. By your earlier definition, that makes me a racist simply because I don’t know what you know or assume what you assume. That position is unsupportable.
Also, did the Sioux Nation name the team in question? Or was it rather a rich old white man who was well known to be a racist asshole? Again, I’m gonna have to go with the latter.
If [insert whatever term for native americans you prefer] want to refer to themselves as Redskins, I can kinda see that. Black people can use the n-word with impunity after all.
But saying a word isn’t a racial slur just because you don’t think it is despite the evidence to the contrary? Well, I’ll ya, y’all aren’t doing old white guys any favors in the stereotype department. Close-minded and racially insensitive much?
The fact is, there are [insert whatever term for native americans you prefer] who find the word offensive and are part of the effort to change the name. About 10%, according to y’all. You just don’t hear about them much since there aren’t that many. Mostly, you know, because we tried to wipe them off the face of the earth, and relegated those remaining to reservations. If 10% of those remaining find the word offensive, that’s good enough for me.
You sir, are displaying symptom’s of the recently discovered disease known as “White Guilt Complex” or “WGC”. WGC is known to infect the inhabitants of a small part of society whom are known to or have resided in small, encapsulated or insulated sections or populations of ivory league schools and or unknowingly were or are, socializing with people that are infected with WGC.
The CDC hasn’t released the figures for this disease yet. They are busy calculating the numbers and interpreting the results still from 2009 when it first surfaced in full force. Thank you for participating in this survey. It is greatly appreciated.
As soon as the CDC does release those numbers or year end stat’s I am sure you will be one of those who will be the last to recognize how badly you’ve been infected.
It is suggested that good, healthy doses of bright light and the absorption of generous amounts of common sense, tend to cure this disease I’ve just described.
See dat? ayez kin uz dem big ten dolla wurds jus’ like u…but, dey wunt buy a two dolla cup of coffee. PS: I caught the slam part pertaining to certain orifices but, mama wuud kick my azz from here to the rez n back if ayez were to use it, brau.
First off, I’m only half white, so I don’t feel guilty about shit.
Second off, common sense would dictate that if you’re given overwhelming evidence to support a position, and answer with personal attacks rather than disputing the arguments set forth with something akin to factual evidence to the contrary…well, it makes you look like a closeminded dick.
By your definitions, the term “redneck” is also a racial slur, right?
Who on earth would name a sports team after a racial slur? When I came back from Vietnam would I have named a team “The Dinks”, The Slowps”, The Moon Faces”, The Gooks”? Ah,no. And the owner being a “racist”. Well maybe he was with Blacks but how does that prove he was a racist against Native Americans? I am suing a candy manufacturer because I’m offended. Get ready to pay out “Cracker Jack”. Hey, if I can get 9 more percent of the population will you support my effort?
I simply cannot wrap my mind around the notion that somebody would name a sports team after somebody they do not admire.
valerie…In my one humble opinion, it was used as a reference of respect to the strength and pride of the Native American Indians. Not as a racial slur against them. It was intended to invoke the best attributes of the Native Americans not to denigrate the. If the intention was to use a name to denigrate a race or group of people, I could think of a couple dozen other names they could have used which are racial and are inappropriate slurs. As I began, just my one opinion and it is only worth what one opinion is worth.
Without putting words in Valerie’s mouth (post) ; I believe that was her point. At least that’s the way I read it.
Oldav8r…I may have misread and thus misspoke. If I did I intended no offense whatsoever. To valerie, please know I meant no offense and if I misread the intent of your post, please forgive me.
Upon rereading valerie’s post again, I see I did miss her entire point and intent. I am sorry valerie. I did not mean to take you to task, however that is how it came out. So again, please forgive my mistake and ignorance. I will be more mindful in the future.
Taking a name after someone you don’t admire? For those not in the know, other than CWO5USMC who was there in the beginning, Hack Stone came down from Heaven. Actually, Beverly Hills. Hack Stone is/was the worst character ever, from the worst ever action-adventure film (Terror In Beverly Hills), portrayed by the second worst actor, ever, that being Frank Stallone. He came in second to his brother Sylvester. If you have the stamina to sit through the entire movie, you can actually feel your ASVAB score dropping.
Yeah …. Like the Minnesota Vikings. Or, are we now supposed to call them the Minnesota Norsemen. Or Minnesota Danes ….
That’s a good point. In the 10th thru 13th centuries Viking was as nasty a term as you could use to identify the Norsemen. It denoted the violent, heathen, blood thirsty raider. Much like todays modern football players. It could be considered a slur by the PC police.
@ ROGER IN REPUBLIC, Et Alii:
My blood is fifty percent Danish, as my biological (I was adopted) maternal grandparents emigrated from Denmark to settle in Wyoming.
I love the idea that my Viking ancestors were so well known for being “violent, heathen, bloodthirsty raiders”!
I for one find the name “Washington Redskins” offensive.
They need to lose the “Washington” part.
ROGLOL ! ! !
GOOD one!
Sorry.
Fat Fingered Typo!
ROFLOL ! ! !
GOOD one!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
AW1Ed…You are the MAN!
AW1Ed, you didn’t post a spew alert!
Laughed hard enough to startle the birds!
I am a native American, but I don’t have any American Indian ancestors.
In the family that adopted me, my paternal grandmother was Hummingbird, a full blooded Cherokee, which makes my deceased father, half Cherokee, and my sisters, one quarter Cherokee.
However, I am not Cherokee, for Cherokee law does not recognize adoptions of folks born without American Indian blood.
The renowned humorist, Will Rogers, was fond of observing that Americans love the American Indians so much, that nearly every American claims to have some American Indian ancestry.
Especially when running for political office!
I don’t claim to be Native American. Sure, my family has some ancestry here or there, but that doesn’t mean I am Native American. If a drop of blood in the bloodline meant ancestry, then I’m one of the most world-blooded people there is. My family heritage can go back to vikings on one side and Portuguese sailors on the other. So, with that mix, I am every race!
All points logistics.
Sorry
When I wrote “I’m a native American”, I was referring to the fact that I was born in the United States of America, and that therefore, regardless of race or ethnicity, makes me a, “native American”.
To ascribe the epithet, “Native American”, to ONLY the American Indians complies with the Marxist tactic of disenfranchising the hated White Man, to further reinforce the concept that we White folks don’t belong in this land, that we are unwanted aliens.
Corrrrrrect! John!
My Great Grandfather was an old Indian fighter. My Great grandmother was an old Indian.
“Why can’t why be honest and admit that the name wasn’t an “honor”? It was and is a racial slur. Period.
Haji. Spook. Jig. Wop. Dago. Greaser. We all know….”
There’s a little problem with that line of reasoning and it is this: When was the last time someone was overheard to use the word Redskins other than in reference to the football team? Those other terms are flat-out slurs. Period. They were slurs 80 years ago and they are slurs today. I hear Redskins and I think of the SOBs I used to pray the Giants would beat. This whole politically correct crap is too much. Now they are trying to break the trademark protection to eliminate the owner’s economic inducement to retain use of the team name. Funny thing about that is that others will be eager to use what they now have to be licensed to use. This will have the unintended effect of our seeing MORE Redskins-emblazoned junk than we do now.
The town where I grew up in SoCal sits between several Indian Reservations. Roughly 1/3 of the kids I went to school with were Indians. Some good friends and coworkers are Indians.
Yes, I say “Indian.” Why? Because in my whole entire life, I have not met a single one who called him- or herself “native American.” They either use the name of their tribe and band, “Indian,” or both.
I myself am a native American. Yes, I’m white. I was also born here, as we’re my parents, grandparents, great- and great-great-grandparents, etc. since at least 1855. That makes me a native by any definition of the word.
I don’t pretend to speak for every Indian (unlike some liberals), and I recognize that they have many legit grievances. But I haven’t yet encountered a single one who gave rat’s ass about the name of Washington’s football team.
2/17 Air Cav…I agree on all points except Greaser. I was defined as a greaser growing up. We were all white, we loved cars, certain music and hung together. We were our own extra school social club. I never considered it racial. However if the post was referring to Greasers in regards to Puerto Ricans, for example, as I have heard them referred to by NYC folks, then I agree it is a racial slur. Just my one experience and one opinion. Just like butt holes, I too have one and it is worth only that.
In my early days “greasers” referred to he guys who favored slicked-back hair and muscle cars. The Elvis worshippers, not the Brit or acid/hippie rock types. I was probably almost 20 before I ever heard it used to refer to Mexicans, and again, it was primarily due to their hairstyles, not any racial meaning. Don’t know for sure but I suspect the origins of calling Puerto Ricans that stem from the hair as well. (Hard to tell, the Puerto Ricans in my family wear their hair pretty short! No hair grease/gel etc.)
And while I’m at it, I can’t for the life of me understand the appeal the name Redskins had for the team in the first place. The Indians were outgunned, outmanned, and, most importantly, regularly lost. and today the Indians are heavily dependent on alcohol. gambling revenue, and, where gambling revenue isn’t a factor, they are on the public dole. you know, I am beginning to like the D.C. football team’s name more and more.
Wow, way to generalize my entire culture and family.
my too
Well, generally speaking–and I was generally speaking–where was I wrong in what I said, specifically? That you don’t like it doesn’t make it wrong.
Gee I don’t know maybe the fact that you making light of the fact that an entire race was massacred and oppressed because they were primitive and in the way and then you proceed to claim they all have drinking problems and are on the “dole”. Your right just because I don’t agree with something doesn’t make it wrong, your ignorant racist views make it wrong.
What’s racist about wjhat he said? Not a damn thing he said is incorrect, so stuff it, Travis.
Indians depend upon alcohol, tobacco and casinos for the bulk of their income. Being on tribal lands, folks can go there to shop for liquor and smokes without having to pay exorbitant taxes. Or at least fewer taxes. Almost all the Casinos in this country are owned by various tribes of Indians. That money also goes back to the members of the tribe.
And, except for the Little Big Horn action(s), they normally WERE outgunned, outmanned and outmaneuvered.
So, yeah.
I’m Indian, my families Indian , the bulk of my friends are Indian, none are drunks and strangely none depend on the casino or the government for their income so not really sure where your “facts” come from but I’m guessing from somewhere up your buddies ass.
An entire race was massacred? If that is so, how is it you are walking amongst us, bro? The rez I grew up on and around is still there along with it more radicalized members of the nation. True, there massacres but, an entire race was not wiped out. Actually, there were massacres on both sides where a village or small town of either were slughtered but if you want to dredge up the far distant past that neither of us have a thing to with, then I’m gonna say you suffer extensibly from “White Guilt Complex” as well.
I grew up and ran with Ogalala/Hunkpapa/Northern Cheyenne and because of proximity generally associated with Tetons due in part to attending catholic churches and school.
Since you threw down your race card, that ends any particpation on your part in any discussions. Think I’mma give you the name “He With No Legs”.
Keyboard sponsored by: “Made in China”.
Speelchecka courtesy of: Fast Fingers, LLC., a wholely owned subsidiary of Rez Dawg Industries,Inc.
PETA statement: No electrons, animals or sufferers of white guilt complex were needlessly harmed in the typing of this comment.
Copyright 2014 Rez Dawg Industries, Inc., is an equal opportunity offender of sensitive feelings.
I’m not your Bro and please do tell about all your Indian friends that are drunks and living off the “dole”
Away back in 1962, for a very brief time, up until I was kicked out and ran away from home, I was a student at Pine Forest High School in Cumberland County, North Carolina.
The school’s team was called the “Rebels”, a caricature of Confederate soldiers, as the local population was justifiably proud of that heritage.
But, after the implementation of compulsory racial integration, which was FORCED on us at bayonet point by our own government, Pine Forest High School changed the team’s name to, “Mustangs”.
It really does look like someone is doing his best to break the trademark status of the WR team, which is a profitable line of business. There was a simmilar dustup at the U of I a few years back about the mascot, Chieff Illiniwek, which I never understood.
But as we all know SO well, there are people who will take offense if the breeze blows the wrong way, and who would complain if they were the first people seated in an empty restaurant.
OK, ditch the hitherto unoffending nominative, period. In fact, ditch the damned city of Washington, DC, and find another location to play ball as Poetrooper suggested, using a completely different team name.
I suggest the Wandering Okies.
That’s easy enough to remember, it’s colorful, and no one could possibly find fault with a team name that has its roots in history.
Alas, Miami University dropped the team name Redskins rather a while ago.
Actually many of the so-called ethnic slurs are simply linguistic corruptions of legitimate terms in their original languages. Many are descriptive of perceived stereotypes by other ethnic groups.
Check out these sites and you will see what I’m referring to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs_by_ethnicity
By the way, notice that the term redskin was originated by the Indians themselves to differentiate their race from whites.
Their is a list of bad words that the Army’s EO team came up with a few years ago. I made the mistake of hitting the print button without looking. OMG & WTF if I remember right it was 164 pages. All evil words that little snow flaks wanted to ban.
The truth is stranger than fiction.
That’d be *special little snowflakes* 😎
Neat! Just picked up a whole list of shit-talking words to use!
I am a Redskins fan. Always have been.
They change the name and I will quit watching the NFL.
But maybe that is not a bad thing. If everyone were to turn off their sets for a year the NFL would have to acquiesce to the demands on the fan.
No more $300 tickets, $12 beers, blackouts in your own city, unruly drunks, etc.
Food for thought.
GT. I’m sorry you’re a fan of such abject failures. Perhaps this is why all the brouhaha with the name. No one complained during the Hog and Joe Gibbs years…
Trade Dan Snyder and then back to HTTR
🙂
Hell, I am excited just when we score.
He’ll, I’m excited when I score too. With a three year old and an eight month old that doesn’t happen as much as it used to!
Not sure if this is Race card or Victim card.
But I think its definitely a $$$$$$$ card. So somebody has to pay up so the offended folks can feel better about their self low esteem.
Victim card…thrown down by several radicalized indians. Their widdle fweelings of indignation and rightiousness surfaced like a pimple on my left ass cheek. lol.
If these uptight assclowns find the word “Redskins” offensive, just sit them in front of a TV and show them episodes of F-Troop until their fucking heads explode. Problem solved.
Ah, yes, the Hekawi tribe, originally known as the Fukawi tribe until the censors caught on…
I remember a sermon I heard in church a few years ago when the Priest referred to political correctness as “A social and spiritual suicide” and I have to agree. I also see it as a cancer on society and every time I hear about someone “being offended” I just want to go up to them and say like my Dad always would, “HERE’S A NICKEL, GET A LIFE!”. I read an article linked to Drudge a few days ago where Harry Reis was drooling and sniveling in front of the snooze cameras over it, and I hope this also bites the demo-rats and RINOS in the ass in November!!
Time for an English lesson:
Redskin is a racial slur. I making a statement of fact. If you disagree then you are most likely uniformed, but don’t worry, my taxpayer-funded education is here to save you. In the English language, we assign disdain using gutteral stops, most often a hard ‘k’ or hard ‘g’. Think of any racial slur off the top of your head…I’ll wait. Was there a hard ‘k’ or ‘g’? I bet there was. Go ahead, think of some more. The only exception to this rule are racial slurs that have a specific meaning, such as Wop (an acronym for With Out Papers, referring to Italian immigrants in the 19th century). Sometimes it’s not even a racial slur with a hard ‘k’ or ‘g’; my old XO used to frequently use the term ‘cocksucker’ every time he got his panties in a wad (ironically, he was a closet homosexual, this was before DADT was repealed). It wasn’t because he thought the persons he was addressing sucked any cocks. Rather, the two gutteral stops in a row conveyed his disdain/frustration in relation to the individual.
‘Redskin’ meets the main criteria for a racial slur, those being the identification of a distinguishing feature and a gutteral stop used by people of one ethnicity to describe people of another.
I’m the last person in the world to align myself with the thought police, but when you take the name combined with the fact that the original owner of the team was an outspoken rascist who had to be literally forced to allow black men to play on his team…well, if it walks like a duck, quaks like a duck, et cetera.
The fact that the football team for the nation’s capitol is still a racial slur (again, I’m making a statement of fact) sullies the league, the sport, and the country.
Brilliantly stated sir.
You fail to understand the true meaning.
Simpleton.
Green Thumb…Thank you. I thought Greg’s input was just a more well thought out version of something VWP would say. Hey Greg, just want to know what time it is, not how to build a watch.
Oh, Greggy! If that was an English lesson you concocted, it was a pisspoor one. More like a prissy attempt at history.
You DO know it was the French who got the local tribes to start scalping their neighors for wampum, don’t you?
My statement wasn’t referring to history at all. Which is interesting, as I have a degree in that very subject (which is also why I did in fact know that it was Europeans who introduced scalping to the native tribes of the Americas, beginning with the Iroquois). If you could please illuminate me as to the references of my post that are historical in nature rather than linguistic (aside from the team being started by a racist dick), that’d be great.
How can you discuss the language without bringing history into it? Your telling us how and why specific terms developed or devolved into racial slurs was steeped in it. Denying that you brought up “history” in your previous posts doesn’t make it so. (Rather like your claims that something is so does not prove it’s existence at all.)
Since you seem to have missed my point all along – you can certainly claim that a word or a phrase represents racism in your head, but you can NOT claim that the same is true for any other individual on the planet.
Meanwhile, you used more than a couple of terms which are highly offensive to me personally. So what? Avoiding being offended is a choice that most of us make multiple times each day. We used to call it being thin skinned to opt otherwise. (No doubt that someone somewhere is offended by THAT term as well.)
“In the English language, we assign disdain using gutteral stops, most often a hard ‘k’ or hard ‘g’.”
Trying to get my head around this…hypothetically, if I were to call you a pussy, you would not pick up on the disdain? Seriously? What about moron? Dumbass?
If you were to hypothetically do that, then I’d laugh and laugh and laugh.
I never that that ONLY words with guttural stops can assign disdain; rather that they are used most commonly in epithets, be they racial, sexual, or otherwise. I even gave you time to think it through, and you still had issue “getting your head around it.”
So you calling me a moron would make me laugh and laugh and laugh.
Well, first you say that pejorative words in the English language are supposed to contain those specific sounds. Then you say they don’t have to. Which is it, Greg?
Please spare me the florid bullshit about how I’m just a dumb redneck unworthy to stand in the presence of an intellectual Titan such as yourself.
I think I got it now…the use of the guttural hard k or hard g is neither necessary or sufficient to connote disdain or express epithet. Great insight. Thanks Greg.
Will ask again, since you have graced us with basically the same stuff twice in the same thread:
“Redneck” is also a racial slur, right?
Racial slur, no…epithet, yes. Thank you so much for bringing that term up, as it illustrates my point beautifully.
The point I’ve been trying to make is that in English we use guttural stops to assign disdain for people of a different race, gender, sexual orientation, and yes, even socio-economic background. It’s so widespread in the English language that works even between people of the same race. Without getting too deep into the etymology of ‘redneck’, it was first used in the US by a wealthier, more urban sector of the white population to describe poorer, more rural folks. Specifically, since the latter had to work outside, their necks were sunburnt (since to those of a higher social strata, working outside was for various poor people of non-European origin). So, just like ‘redskin’, it includes a guttural stop and a distinguishing feature. One is simply a racial epithet while the other is socio-economic in nature.
While in recent years, ‘redneck’ has been reclaimed by those it was originally aimed at, much like the common use of the n-word by black people, its origin was most certainly not complementary.
So, you refuse to even use your own definitions within the constraints you determined. How utterly hypocritical of you.
The point you are attempting to make is absurd. While you may indeed use all that guttural clap trap in the ways that you describe, it certainly doesn’t mean that the rest of us do. Many, if not most or all, of us are able to speak and use words without any disdain whatever.
If you use words that way, or even know other people who do, why are you attempting to justify it by projecting it on the rest of us? That is just silly. And intellectually ridiculous.
The people I run with are not racists, but I would never attempt to say that because my small chunk of the world behaves without prejudice that no one else does. Because we can find someone or a small group which behaves in one way or another does not translate to an entire population behaving that way.
considering the percentage of words int he English language that have a hard glottal stop, this is almost a self-fulfilling statement.
As part native american myself I ask mr.snyder to go to his temple and ask if anyone their has a problem if he renames the team the jewskins.
And the nation of your part native americanism is?
The part that ran down his momma’s legs.
His Indian name is Chief Fuckstick of the Wannabe tribe.
Sparky, more likely the Fkawees, the tribe notorious for getting lost as in,
“Where the fkawee?”
Yeah, I laughed at that…
Hey, look! It’s another racist, self-loathing, projecting liberal assdouche who claims (with zero substantiation and even less truth) to be part Indian! Another Fauxcahontas, if you will.
VWPissant, if you have a drop of American Indian blood in you, then I’m a Chinese jet pilot. You do realize that real Indians absolutely hate Fauxcahontas poser turds like you, right?
And notice VWP’s tinge of anti-semitism so popular among the socialist left.
Just STFU vietnam whatever.
“Jew” is a correct term, you idiot.
Who cares? I mean really who give a flying fuck what they are called.
Its a game that grown men play. They get paid really really well to play it. They get to go college for free because they can run, tackle, catch a ball or whatever.
Its a game, for the life of me I will never understand it or any other sports appeal to those not playing it.
I hear people say my team, they spend small fortunes on tickets, they fight about it, I dont get it.
Rant over
E4U Thank you for the reason. I mean it’s not like we are renaming the military branches, The Redskins, The Queers, The Spooks and The Airy Fairies.
The previous comment was an example only and not written with any intent on my part to cause offense to any group or people. So nobody get your nickers in a twist.
Got some great new names for them, all befitting the city of Washington:
The Washington:
Scandal
Corruption
Incompetence
Oathbreakers
Coverups
Fibbers
Lollygaggers
Pond Scum
Freeloaders
Handouts
Taxers
Lobbyists
Sellouts
Reamers
Deadbeats
Crackheads
Dimebags
Felons
Perjurors
Ballsacks
Taints
You left out The Twoholes.
Along with what VWP had to say, how bout The Foreskins? Hard K though….too guttural Greg? I didn’t really get the criteria down.
I sure that Greg gets it down…..
He seems to be that type, you know? 😉
I didn’t think it’d be that difficult to understand, but I guess I have to break it down for you knuckledraggers (see what I did there? naw, you probably didn’t).
Disdain is a word that means to look upon or treat with contempt; to despise.
In the English language, we most often assign disdain verbally with guttural stops. While this is not always the case, it makes for using a hard ‘k’ or ‘g’ sound in the word very common when speaking an epithet of any kind, whether it be referring to someone of a different race, gender, sexual orientation, or just someone you don’t like. The examples of this in the English language are so numerous as to be hard to dispute from a statistical standpoint.
For instance, since AW1 inferred I felate men, I could just come out and call him a punkass cocksucking motherfucking faggot. While I can’t be sure, I feel like the odds are good that he neither has punks in his ass, nor sucks cocks, nor fucks his mother, nor is a homosexual. But note how that sentence (especially said aloud) invokes an emotional response. It is not its literal meaning, but rather the way those words are spoken that makes the sentence so offensive.
Also, tack a sir on that, you fucking knuckledragger.
You can say what you like, but you’re still wrong.
You’re also an insufferable little crapweasel talking down to everyone around you with your bombastic bloviating bullshit.
So, feel free to type away. It just reinforces everyone’s opinion of you. 🙂
So, by tacking a “sir” on that, what exactly are you implying? Hard S? Make is soft and hissy. Should I stand at attention because I was an enlisted soldier? Bah.
Because (and put an extra sound on that B would you, just for effect, hmm?) you are just another SFB who wants to get completely literal with the jargon of english language and interpretation. No one here gives a rat’s ass for your (hard Y) take. Because as long as the indians don’t take the name “Redskins” personally,
your superiorly (soft S) complex breakdown falls on deaf ears.
There you go again – moving from an incorrect assumption into the real world here. Yeah, we all see exactly what you did there.
What emotional response was it that you expected to illicit? Was it something other than laughter?
Your clue for the day: Your assumptions say much more about you than any of us, Greg. Your assumptions about us are simply wrong, therefore the conclusions you draw after following a path of fractured logic are also wrong. Your choice to dig in with your incorrect assumptions instead of learning something from the collected wisdom here only shows your narrow mindedness.
I am not a Cracker. I am a Saltine American.
As seen at another site. How about the Washington Deceivers?
Hey, how about the Washington Bullets??!!
Oh, wait….
A different Sport, but before they became the Minnesota Twins, The Washington Senators were a running Joke. They made a play on the old quote about George Washington.
“First in War, first in Peace and Last in the American League”.
Okay…..
The Redskins have been down this path before, back in 1999. A Federal Judge overruled the PTO and that was that. Until about 2006 or so, when a Federal Judge AGAIN stepped in to help the Redskins.
I fully expect this latest bullshit ruling to be overturned in court as well.
BUT……. I have a solution to the situation.
Have the team replace the logo with a potato. Voila! Problem solved. 🙂
Great solution!
This was all the work of the Patent Office, which refused to renew the trademark status of the team’s name. Trademarks are lucrative bits of business that allow a corporate entity to be the sole owner and sole profiteer for something, which in this case is mugs, T-shirts, souvenir footballs, yadayadayada, all with the Redskins’ name and logo on them.
Without the exclusivity of trademark status, the team loses cash income. The comment accompanying the news report was that this allows ANYONE WHO WANTS TO USE THE NAME REDSKINS
I did not get to finish because something bumped me out, but here goes.
Without the exclusivity of trademark status, the team loses cash income. The comment accompanying the news report was that this allows ANYONE WHO WANTS TO USE THE NAME REDSKINS CAN DO SO WITHOUT GETTING SUED FOR TRADEMARK INFRINGEMENT.
Yes, it is THAT simple, and it has nothing to do with whether or not the team’s name is offensive to any specific group of people.
And if you will remember from your grade school history class, the Indians were called Indians because Columbus thought he had found the East Indies (India, Ceylon, etc.), and it was not a pejorative then, any more than calling someone from India an Indian.
This whole thing is utter BS, and all of you know it, so discussing the origins of this group and the slurs at that group is wasting your energy on nothing. This is a crap decision by the Patent Office, they’ve been blocked from it before, and it will happen again if the trademark loss gets blocked again.
Oh, but guess what?!? It’s all on your tax dollars! So who gives a shit?
Whatever happened to referring to those who are from tribal nations as being from tribal nations? Back in the day, the terms “Indian” and “Native American” were equally incorrect ways of referring to indigenous populations of North America.
My big picture view is that it is none of my business what a business owner chooses to call his business. That the full force of government would come down on the man and his business is disgusting.
If someone is stupid enough to think that this was about a particular group being offended, then I’m offended by them and their stupidity. It’s about money, nothing more. ‘Redskins’ is a trademarked word. If this is about ethnicity, then you should know that the so-called native Americans started migrating here from Siberia by way of the ice-covered Bering Sea sometime between 40,000 years ago and 12,000 years ago. Other tribes called the Red Paint people migrated here at the same time across the northern Atlantic ice fields from Europe. They are called the Red Paint people because their remains found in shallow graves in both Europe and northeastern America have traces of red ochre mixed in. This is archaeology, not some fanciful idea on my part. Yes, there’s evidence that Viking explorers went inland from Martha’s Vinyard, back in the long ago. Because they immigrated to this continent so far in the past, they’re now native Americans. Well, MY ancestors migrated here starting back in the 17th century, and kept coming, and have been here ever since. I was born here, so that makes me native American, too. For some reason that still escapes me, my LAST name – my FAMILY name – has been consistently misspelled, mispronounced, made fun of because it rhymes with some vegetable, and generally turned into a slur, so often that I’ve considered dropping it and using a different family name that can’t be kicked around like a ripe puffball until the owner (me) explodes – although I never actually did. It’s not that there’s anything wrong with my last name, but apparently instead of people understanding its original meaning in Saxon English, it’s turned into everything from an inappropriate ethnic pejorative (I’m not Jewish) to something that can be altered to suit the whim of the user, because he can’t pronounce words of more than one syllable. Now, this has nothing to do with me, but with the braindead people I worked with, who were quite willing to poke fun at me, but didn’t like it if I returned it by bending their… Read more »
Ex-PH2 Thank you and well said. I was getting really worn with Greg, the intellectual, smarter than all of you, snob. But my anger was outweighing my reason in posting a response to him. You said it so well for me.
Again, thank you and Greg, go back to your intellectual endeavors and please feel free to laugh at the rest of us ill informed, lower than you citizens. After all your White Man’s Guilt Syndrome is sure causing you to point out the differences between yourself and all of us, lower people. Intellectually speaking of course. Amazing what rattles around in some folks minds. One of the reasons I am so glad I am out of college, long ago and no longer have to suffer superior minded, fools like Greg.
1) I’m half white, and not guitly about shit. I can, however, recognize reasonable arguments and factual evidence.
2) If you go back to my original post, I was trying to explain a feature of the English language that many people aren’t really aware of. Again, the examples are so numerous as to be statistcally undeniable. If y’all would really like me to (re)do the research legwork on guttural stops and/or the etymology of the specific word, I don’t reckon it’d take me all that long.
3) I do aplogize if the way I said it made people feel not good. I didn’t figure the folks around here to be so thin-skinned. My bad. Instead of any valid arguments against the position I set forth, I was treated initially and consistently with personal attacks. Like many of you, I suspect (well, now I know), I don’t respond well to those; my usual fallback is sarcastic dickishness.
4) Olive branch, bros.
5) My orignal postion, summarized: Since ‘Redskin’ includes both a guttural stop and a distinguishing characteristic, it is consitent linguistically with most racial epithets. As such, it shouldn’t be the name of a team in the National Football League.
6) I’m open to any and all reasonable rebuttals and/or disputing evidence.
Actually, you seem to have very selective short term memory working for you there, Greg. There have been quite a few reasoned arguments posited to you which you have chosen to ignore. We have might conclude that you have no rational response, hence the irrational one instead.
How is it my business, or yours, what the owner of any business calls his business? If the name offends either of us, we are not compelled to support the business. That is the real issue here for me.
There really haven’t, but stick a pin in that, we can circle back to it. The irrational responses did not begin with me, friend.
I ask you to consider where I’m speaking from my mind and where I’m speaking from my heart: I agree with you completely that if one finds the name of a business offensive they do not have to support it. I love to watch that particular team lose. However, I think there’s a bigger issue here than commerce. This is our National Sport(before we get into it about baseball vs football, baseball is the national past time, please concede me this one thing), and the team of our nation’s capital. While it is indeed a business, it also represents a city and by extension a nation. If they were called the Snyder Redskins and they played in the Chamber of Commerce Football League, I’d feel different about it. They’d represent someone and something else entirely.
The linguistic characteristics of the name are objectively pretty easily identifiable. Subjectively, maybe you’re right and it’s not my business. But I’ve bled for my country and I love football…so I feel like having that word represent that team besmirches the league, the sport, and the country. Obviously I’m not alone in this, otherwise we wouldn’t be having this conversation because no one would be writing blog posts about it.
No, there is nothing “national” about it just because it happens to be in DC. It’s a business enterprise which no more represents national values than do the plethora of other businesses in and around DC. Someone chose to locate them there, but much like all the demonstrations on the Mall over the years, they only represent some Americans and not others.
I agree that Washington isn’t the national team. I was referring to the league and the sport of football as a whole and how it reflects on our national character. Shouldn’t our institutions (be they sport, art, business, government, or culture) reflect who we are as a people and who we want to be? I feel like they do, or at least they should. It seems to me that alot of the problems that are elucidated on this blog are due to people in the institutions of government, business, and the senior ranks of the military losing sight of that.
Why do we like football and baseball while the rest of the world goes batshit crazy over the world cup? I like to believe it’s because we’re different. I like to believe that it’s why people still immigrate here in droves every year, because of the promise of ‘Murica. Since I love my country, I don’t like seeing one of its unique institutions sullied; the sport of football has enough problems without a professional team keeping a racial slur that reflects a very dark part of our history as a mascot.
Ex-PH2,
I found your comments interesting on so many levels, I really do appreciate them. I’m not being sarcastic, nor a dick. Bear with me.
While I agree with you that there is a monetary aspect to this, I believe there’s more. For instance, I find the fact that the word ‘redskin’ pre-dates ‘trademark’ by a century and a half (1690s vs 1838) very interesting. If a word existed before the concept of trademarking did, how much does its meaning change between its initial usage, its common usage, and its trademarked usage? If so, wherein lies the point at which it no longer retains its original meaning (and the connotation within it)?
I appreciate that your archaeological references are spot on, but let’s skip past the word ‘viking’, as it has been so commonly misused from its original meaning that it now describes a people instead of an activity (which is a pretty big jump, linguistically) and is not accurate when used in conjunction with ‘explorer’.
Going from changing someone’s name to ‘Fuckstickson’ to the “strong need in humans to elaborate on the differences between you and me, and between our clans and tribes and social groups, sometimes in unpleasant ways” was beautifully put. You illustrated what I was trying to say amazingly succinctly, thank you.
But then you came after me, which I don’t get since I hadn’t replied to anything you said nor addressed you personally. Then came the insults, making fun of my name (which I’m not scared to use, and funny since you had previously mentioned disliking people turning your name into a pejorative), and some poetry followed up with some hard ‘k’s at the end. Nice bro. Fist bump.
I get it, you didn’t like my tone, and maybe I wasn’t expressing myself in the most constructive manner. Even so, thanks for helping me illustrate my point. Let me reiterate that I’m not trying to be sarcastic, nor a dick.
I am married to an “Indian” and she thinks the whole thing is stupid. She is not offended by the term Redskin, as I am sure the majority of “Indians, redskins, etc” are not offended by it.
It seems that the PC police that are trying to make sure the football team changes their name, are all liberal, white-guilt idiots. I have not seen an Indian say anything. However, if there are some out there, I’m sure they have been talked into being victims by those that are making the big deal out of the whole situation.
I have so many different “bloods” coursing through my veins that IF I wanted to be a victim or be offended by something/anything, I could. Sometimes being a victim is a choice. they could decide to not let it bother them. It seems to me that there are a lot more important issues out there to worry about.
Maybe the Indians that are offended by the name (if there are any) should “own” the name and be proud of it. Then Harry Reid would have to find something else to try to take focus off of what a POS he is, and what a mess he and the rest his party and the admin. he works for are making out of our country.
Greg, You are a snob and have become boring.