Manning just a backdoor for acceptance of gender reassignment
Anon in Jax sends us a link to BBC which reports that those folks who want complete acceptance of trans-gender issues in the military are using that manning dude, whatever his first name is today, to get the military to accept transsexuals and those who are confused about their sexual identity. They try to make it sound like its all for poor Bradley, but that’s not the case at all.
It’s like when the stank-ass hippies at ANSWER stood up veterans in Iraq Veterans Against the War in the front ranks of their protests like mannequins to steal their credibility for their little protests. You know, whether they were actually veterans of the Iraq War or not.
[Manning’s lawyer, Nancy Hollander] said recent reports in the US media that military officials were considering transferring Pte Manning to a federal civilian prison for treatment of gender dysphoria was “not really a positive sign”.
“To some extent it’s a trick,” Ms Hollander said. “This was leaked information from someone at the Pentagon, which is of course ironic since I doubt anyone is going to be prosecuted for that leak, but [Manning] won’t be safe in a federal prison.”
She said that Pte Manning had not suffered harassment at the military prison at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, even though her fellow inmates knew she was transgender.
[…]
“The government simply has to recognise this, to recognise there’s no reason why transgender people can’t serve in the military like anyone else,” Ms Hollander said.
She added that if military officials were not forthcoming with treatment, Pte Manning “may have to file a lawsuit to require the prison to provide the treatment it needs to provide”.
“It’s a copout by the military to say [Manning] has to move to a federal prison.”
So, like those morons at the the National Lawyer Guild, that historically communist organization that has tried to use every war to undermine the US military with the veteran anti-war movement, this Hollander woman sees an opportunity to advance the transgender agenda in the Pentagon. It’s not about Manning at all, it’s about the acceptance of the transgender lifestyle choice, you know like what the end of the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy did for “regular” gays.
Category: Military issues
Again, Transgender is a pyschological disorder. It requires massive amounts of psychological, as well as medical treatment for those who have it.
Of those who are transgender (accoriding to recent studies),they have an extremely high suicide attempt rate. As well as them also having at least one other recognised mental health issue, that would also preclude them from military service. Bi-polar disorder, manic depressive, shizo affective, border line personality disorder…
So where do these idiots declaring that they are suitable for military service get off saying this?
There may be that rare one in a million that does not have any other issues other than they were born with the wrong parts, but they are the exception. This is not “hate”, this is fact based on decades of medical research, and documented casework.
I saw a documentary a few years back that followed 4 or 5 transsexuals as they moved through the process of changing over.
The first thing that caught my attention was the concept of “overvalued ideation” which one of the psychiatrists used. He contended that the transsexuals obsessed that all would be better if they could just change sexes. The thought consumed them.
Anyway, out of the group of 4 or 5, only one (a retired AF colonel if I remember correctly!) was happy that he (she?) changed. The others found that all the problems they had before the sex change were, surprise, still there. One of them might have even committed suicide.
I just don’t buy this man or woman trapped in the body of the other sex. I always think on a classic SNL sketch (which of course I can’t find on the internet) about an Italian trapped in the body of a Japanese guy. Comedy gold! And quite the chop on the whole transsexual concept. Probably can’t find it now cause it’s politically incorrect.
I can’t find the video of it either, but the transcript is here: http://snltranscripts.jt.org/79/79mupdate.phtml about the last third of the page. Father Guido…. ahead of his time.
Ha!
And what, by the way, is the extent of this entitlement? By that I mean will Manning be able to ask for neuter next if the titty thing doesn’t work out? How about if she, and then it, decides she then it wants to return to being male in the future?
\insert Beavis and Butthead laugh/
you said backdoor
At this point, I’m more or less on board with castrating the little traitor. But seriously, stop calling him “she” and “her!”
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. He will never be a female. He will be a eunuch. His glands will still release testosterone, his pelvic area will contain a prostate gland, vas deferens, and the circulatory structure to support a (tiny) set of cock&balls. He will be devoid of uterus, clitoris, Fallopian tubes, and ovaries. He will not be female, he will not be “transgendered.” He will be a fucking eunuch.
I don’t give a rat’s tiny ballsack how the little bastard “self-identifies.” This concept of his will never, ever be anything more than wishful thinking. Thus, The Loathesome Piece of Shit Traitor Bradley Manning will be no more than a deluded eunuch in drag.
I adore your words. This is the most wise and accurately stated comment I’ve seen yet on the subject of this traitorous little skeeze. “Deluded eunuch in drag.” Oh, lord. It cannot get any better.
Manning would complain if someone hung him with a brand new rope. Can someone sew his mouth shut?
rb325th, being homosexual used to be classified as a psychological disorder and soon enough wanting to own a gun will be. I know a lot of transgender from my time in Cali. Hate to say it, most of them are just people, people who feel more comfortable dressing and acting like someone of the opposite gender. (this goes both ways, male to female and female to male) and most of them are taking steps to make that lifestyle permanent. One thing I learned is that most of them do suffer from some form of depression, as you note. The problem is that depression comes from people (friends, family, and coworkers) from not accepting them for who they perceive to be. They aren’t transgender because they are depressed, they are depressed because they feel like everyone hates them because they are transgender.
Bottom line up front: Much like women in combat roles, as long as they can do the job, who cares how they dress or act?
That said, there is no way in hell that tax payers, the government, the army, or anyone else should have to pay for their treatment or decisions. Especially in the case of a criminal.
this. all of this is true.
it is not just depression, it is in a large percentage disorders such as those I mentioned. Those are not caused by anyone else…
Bottom line, they do have those additional issues, and the psychological and medical aspect of their disorder (and it is a disorder, call it whatever you like) is far greater than other conditions a person would be prohibited from enlisting with. Never mind al lthe other excess baggage they will be carrying with them. That is not hate, that is medical fact.
I’ve read this a couple of times, and I have no idea what you are saying.
Unless its “Not accepting them damages them and because they are damaged we shouldn’t accept them”. Which is a valid logic chain I can respect as long as its constant across the board.
Which means vets who have PTS and develop depression because of how society treats them shouldn’t be allowed to serve.
I don’t agree, but I can see and respect the logic behind it.
Sgt Kane, it is NOT JUST depression which by the way is also in the DSM as a disorder itself… it is considered a mood disorder, and if you have been treated for it prior to enlistment, you should not even be allowed to enlist under the Regs.
trying to compare PTS to Depressive Disorders that pre exits is utter bull shit. PTS incurred in the Military is one thing, but to accept someone who has a preexisting condition is another.
Again, the Transgender (which is a disorder whether you like it or not) alone comes with huge psychological and physical issues. Added on to that is that almost all(93.8% in one NIH Study) will have some other personality disorder as defined in the DSM. From Depression to bi Polar, and even Schizo Effective Disorder.. 94% of that entire group. Sorry, but that alone is enough to permanently prevent the Military from taking the risk of allowing any to enlist.
The long term risks involved are too great.
Over 50% according to a survey have HIV/AIDS, 46% males and 42% females have attempted suicide…
You can try and blame that on them not “being accepted”, but those rates are through the roof compared to the rest of the population.
So you want to bring into the military someone who most likely in addition to being transgender (which again is a mental/physical disorder), who most likely has additional mental health issues, who has a 50/50 chance of being HIV positive or becoming positive, who has a greater than 40% chance of having already attempted suicide…
When you look at all the disorders/issues they are likely to have, allowing them to enlist makes no freaking sense at all!! Anyone of them alone would disqualify them.
Instant gender transformation: 185gr HP in the ear. You can call the body whatever the hell you want. Next?
Go away.
It occured to me that you probably meant only Manning and not, as I initially thought, an entire group of people. I posted too hastily, I apologize for that.
I think he just meant Manning.
I’d go for the 230gr +P SXT Ranger myself. Waste of a great bullet, but let’s be sure the job gets done.
Your second thought was correct; specific to Manning (whatever the hell his name is currently.) I don’t give a damn about anyone’s sexuality unless they are expressing an interest in me, however, treason is a whole different matter.
“…… as long as they can do the job, who cares how they dress or act?”
Really? The military shouldn’t care about how soldiers dress or act? So…. get rid of the UCMJ?
so you would toss someone from the military because he wears a skirt off duty, despite being able to do his/her job?
by that logic, the military shouldn’t care if someone robs banks or drops acid in their off hours? I happen to somewhat agree that off-duty time (if it IS off-duty) is more private, but think the logic of your argument is fatally flawed.
no, your logic is flawed. wearing a skirt is not a crime.
Neither, generally, is wearing a klansman’s garb on Saturday night, burning a cross on your own property, or hanging people in effigy. Is that the standard, whether something is legal or not?
this entire discussion is pointless if you think that crossdressing, racism, and burglary belong in the same topic. have a good one, fellas.
Right. Crossdressers are special. social norms and mores don’t apply. You can go home, but we’re keeping the ball. Also, shave your legs. They are getting nubby.
2/17 Air Cav, the problem is that social norms and mores are ever evolving. Once upon a time racism, sexism, and religious bigotry was acceptable. Now they aren’t.
My point, and I don’t know or particularly care about Stacy’s point, is that I don’t care what gender someone identifies them-self as long as they can do the job. I don’t care what’s in their pants as long as they can move, shoot, and communicate. I also don’t care if they are catholic, mormon, jewish, hispanic, black, white, irish, or who they sleep with.
SGT Kane With all due respect sir, the changes they are talking about here are far different from racism, religious bigotry or sexism. The issue here runs to two things, the well being and welfare of an effective fighting force and the changes in mores that accepted or not, are being poured down our throats with a garden hose, full blast. It has not become an issue of acceptance or tolerance on my part. It has become a name calling stereotyping of me, if I choose to believe otherwise. I become the outcast for insensitivity towards a tremendous minority of people thrusting their values and mores upon me. I am not afraid of homosexuals. However, if I offer any opinion in decent of homosexuality, I am labeled a “homophobic person”.
To be clear, the only change I’m talking about here, is allowing people who can do the job, be allowed to do the job. If women can do a combat job, let them. If transgender can, let them. If homosexuals can, let them. Hell, I’ll even go so far as to say if conscientious objectors can do the job (ala CPL Doss), let them do the job.
I’m also not advocating calling anyone names or punishing someone because they don’t agree with me.
It is what it is, I’m just of the opinion that stupid is stupid.
You know, that’s the claim made for EVERY change someone doesn’t like: “…, the changes they are talking about here are far different from…”
Interesting, eh?
2/17 Air Cav LMAO Thanks for the support. I can see it now. The SGT in post housing coming out on Saturday to mow the lawn in a skirt, peasant blouse and pumps. Or the PVT in the barracks, on his own time, strutting around in a thigh length dress and spike heels with nylons. Can anyone else see how those examples would go over like a fart in church or a turd in the punch bowl? There’s being open minded and then there’s being open minded until your brains fall out on the floor. A little common sense here for goodness sakes! Please!
Yes, lets have a little common sense here. I doubt that anyone is going to be mowing the lawn in a peasant blouse and pumps.
They’d twist an ankle!
I like to wear a kilt after duty. Am I a “fart in church”?
Gary, there are a lot of dumb regulations in the Army (I can’t speak to other services) and I’m not advocating that they be disobeyed or that they not be enforced. What I am saying is that keeping someone out of the Army (or kicking them out) for violating a stupid regulation is stupid.
The new AR 670-1 tattoo policy comes to mind here. I don’t care if a soldier has a full sleeve tat, or infidel scrawled on the back of his neck, anymore than I care if a guy shows up to formation in a skirt. All I care about is that they can close, engage, and destroy the enemies of the United States of America.
That said, I’m just a lowly sergeant and I will enforce the regulations (both those I think wise, and those I think stupid) to the best of my abilities, but lets not pretend that just because there’s a rule, regulation, tradition, or law that says something, that means that something is a good idea.
SGT Kane First, thank you for serving. Tattoos however are far different from showing up in formation in a skirt. There is a uniform for a reason. Uniformity. Uniformity provides an equal basis of visual judgement for everyone. No one is greater or lesser than anyone else when in uniform. They are all soldiers. To change that, say to allow women’s dress uniforms in a male platoon, is on the face of it, to me, absurd. It defeats the purpose of uniformity and its value to start with. Anyone who thinks it is not going to cause upset, turmoil and wreak havoc on discipline and good order within the ranks and amongst the troops privately, is just not looking at this in a reasonable fashion.
So once women start serving in infantry companies, they should have to wear pants as part of their dress uniform? I’m cool with that actually. Just like I’m down with a unified PT standard. The focus is too much on this skirt wearing thing I think, which is my fault for bringing it up.
So let me restate, I don’t care what’s in their pants as long as they can do the job.
But as I’ve said before, my opinion holds as much weight as a gnat’s fart in a windstorm.
SGT Kane As a serving Sergeant your opinion here is as valuable as anyone else. Remember, opinions are like ass holes…
That includes mine!
“treatment of gender dysphoria”. Not sure what that means but doesn’t sound like your run of the mill depression or anxiety to me. Hell it’s hard enough on Drill Sergeants now, to get a young boot’s head on straight and that’s if he is “straight” and how do I say it, “a usual guy”. Add to that the discord and dysfunction in a new platoon when the DS also has to deal with a bunch of recruits with “gender dysphoria”. Damn sad state of affairs. Can’t take care of the active duty and vets they have now and they want to pile on more upset and turmoil to the military. The POTUS, and the DoD have lost their collective minds! Who am I kidding? They had no balls or brains to start with so there’s nothing to lose there.
2/17 Air Cav, I have money that says Manning’s next plea, through its attorney, will be for a sex change operation and the money further says, the DoD will comply.
“Trainee. What in the hell is wrong with you! Stop that #$#@ing crying!”
“I can’t. I get emotional this time of the month.”
“This time of the month? But you’re a man!”
“I only look that way. Inside I’m really a woman.”
“Shit.”
↑↑↑↑↑ A few upvotes for you, 2/17.
I wonder, the government wants to take guns away from veterans who are depressed, but now they want to enlist people who have the same issues before they serve? That just doesn’t seem to be smart, but, it is the government.
UpNorth…Make that FAR WORSE issues before they enlist.
I was trying to be charitable, but you’re correct.
Much like driver’s licenses, people keep thinking that military service is a right, not a priveledge. Sorry gang, if you don’t meet the criteria (ALL of the criteria), you don’t get to join this club. If you don’t pass the driver’s test, no license. Those rules haven’t changed, why should we change the rules for military service (transgender, illegal, whatever is next). If you don’t meet the qualifications, get over it or do what it takes to meet the qualifications.
As far as Manning (or should it be Womanning) is concerned, it’s snetence is only 35 years – it should be able to wait until then to get it’s nut snipped off on it’s own dime.
nbcguy54…Thank you and my question is regarding transgender, transsexuals. Considering the huge, huge minority they are amongst the general population, why are we jumping though hoops to appease them? It’s not like WWII when blacks were fighting for equality in the military and represented a large minority within the population of America. That issue and many others I agree with without reservation. This issue of sexuality, transgender and all of its ilks is so small in numbers it isn’t even on the radar. Or shouldn’t be anyway. Not among the FAR bigger problems in the military the DoD should be concerning themselves with. It is becoming ludicrous to the Nth degree.
Backdoor … like what is that all about?
It’s sodomy. I thought that you Navy guys invented it.
2/17 Air Cav: nah, it’s just part of Naval tradition. Along with rum and the lash, if I recall Sir Winston correctly. (smile)
Ouch … My feelings have been hurt!
Wait … I don’t have any feelings.
All this is a way to force the government to pay for the expensive medications, therapy, and surgery transgenders feel they need to be complete. It has nothing to do with service and everything to do with latching onto the nanny (state)’s tit.
Pinto Nag Great point. If it is ever approved for them to serve, they will standing around the block in their high heels at the recruiters so they can get in and then get the government (taxpayers) to fund their, medication, therapy and surgeries. This is like a bad B-movie or nightmare. But I am not waking up from it!
Am I the only one getting really tired of Manning?
Every time I read an article about him, I stop and look at the same old picture just to see if I can scrutinize any details. All I can see is a whiny teenager. I don’t know if he’s actually in his teens anymore or if he was when he had the picture taken but he looks like some bratty kid my age.
He’s a traitor. That’s all. He shouldn’t get any surgery, he shouldn’t get any pay, he should be in jail for the rest of his life.
Agreed, Farflung. And “the rest of his life” should be defined as the amount of time it takes to rig up the gallows and march his little wannabe-eunuch ass to the trapdoor.
No, you’re not.
Put Manning in general population with that wig of his… they’ll make him all the bitch he could ever want to be and then some.
The Canadian military has accepted transgender soldiers, going so far as to allow them to wear the uniforms of their “target” gender. One of the finest soldiers I ever served with is a MtF Captain now and upon visiting her last year commands the respect of those she leads. They judge her on her actions not what gender she identifies as. She (then he) has earned her right in blood to defend her country and as with the end of DADT, I look forward to the day when those in our own military can do the same.
That being said, Manning is a traitorous little gremlin who deserves nothing on the taxpayers dime besides what is necessary to sustain life if for nothing more than to see him serve his complete sentence and fade into obscurity in the coming years.
Gremlin. Perfect. Well played.
Gerbil would fit too (no pun intended).
I’m going to throw in my 3 cents’ worth here, based on spending my entire life as a girl, and liking boys. Having been through many, many months of menstrual cycles with some bodacious cases of cramps that would put some of you more stalwart fellows on the floor, whimpering, vomiting, and begging for mercy, and subsequently going through surgical menopause through a hysterectomy and having to take HRT to ward off heat waves that made me feel like someone had set me on fire, I think I can say that there are many times when being a girl of the female genetic persuastion just ain’t much fun. These misguided souls who are not happy with the sex they were born to, who are depressed because they believe that they are despised for wanting to be other than what they are, do not fully understand the consequences of fully changing from one sex to another. It isn’t something you try and if you don’t like it, you return it for a refund. You’re stuck with it. If you change from male to female, you will have to take hormone therapy for life. Ditto if you make the change from female to male. And at some point, you’ll go through menopause. Sex hormones are generated in the brain, not the ovaries or testicles. Your sex drive comes from your brain. It drives your interest. One major consequence of taking a lifetime of female hormone therapy to maintain a surgical female persona is the very real possibility of breast cancer and osteoporosis. This is not something to be taken lightly. And yes, men can get breast cancer. Richard Roundtree (Shaft) had Stage IV breast cancer. It just is not talked about, as if it were some kind of perversion, but it does happen. Maybe you guys should start talking about it, and stop being so coy about your bodies. Since women don’t have prostates, in order to avoid prostate cancer, a male-to-female transgender will have to have the prostate removed. I don’t remember offhand which cancers are specific to men, other than… Read more »
Ex-PH2 Thank you for this information. It is one of the most well thought out and written comments on the thread regarding this issue. Coming from you, who knows the ups and downs of being a woman your opinion makes tremendous sense. My wife had and survived breast cancer. But when menopause came on, she could not take HRT because estrogen feeds breast cancer in a powerful way. So I watched as she suffered through it. Later a needed hysterectomy helped with some of her issues but not all. She still has terrible mood swings, which the doctor tells her that estrogen could help to level out. But then there’s the possibility of bringing on the cancer again. Additionally she has severe bone issues. All said, she opts to not have HRT for the fear of cancer again. A wise choice for her, to me. Thank you again for your input and all the information most people don’t stop to think about. Even those contemplating a sex change I am afraid.
All well said. I hope (I think) your point is that transgender is a tough enough road that it’s not to be taken lightly, and that the chances someone is frivolously claiming it to get an easier deal, is slimski to noneski.
THAT said, I have wondered about Manning’s transgender identity. I’m not in her shoes (for one thing, I’m not a flipping traitor), I don’t know her experience, I don’t want to cast doubt on the authenticity of what she feels and is, at her psychological core. What I do know, from what we’ve been told about her, is that she’s an EPICALLY emotionally messed up little attention whore. And this latest wrinkle has (IMVHO, undeservedly) prolonged her 15 minutes of fame. That’s what she lives for. Would it surprise me if this proves to be a stunt? Not in the least.
A dear friend of mine, a transgendered attorney I went to high school with (and a most well-adjusted and patriotic person, I’ll add, as well as possessed of exceptional wisdom on every mayter but the following), has adopted Manning as a cause celebre. I’ve warned her to be careful in doing so, because Manning may prove very embarrassing for her trans tribe. Caveat emptor.
Yes, my point was, and is, that this is a lifetime choice – and I emphasize the word ‘choice’ – that has long-term, and frequently devastating, consequences.
People who are not happy with themselves to begin with are unlikely to change that attitude in the end. There are studies that support this. You have to be happy with who you are mentally and emotionally for this to work.
And I agree completely that Manning’s sporadic appearances in the media are the acts of a drama queen and attention whore, not much else.
As I pointed out a few days ago, there is a man on death row, now living as a female, who has several times requested sex change surgery before he is executed and has been turned down repeatedly. If he can’t get it at taxpayers’ expense, why should Manning get it?
If this is in fact who you are, then the choice is to live as who you are in your soul, whether or not you can afford the biological mods … Or not.
But again, it comes down to whether they’re truly trans or simply unhappy about other things. The trans friends I have are (IMO) now well adjusted in their gender identities. I’m not at all convinced Chelsea is more or less than a confused, miserable attention seeker.
Sooner or later the only thing baring prospective service members from serving is religious association.
Mark my words.
The EO folk are just itchin’ to make being Catholic, Baptist or any other religious denomination that considers abortion to be murder a military-unacceptable extremist “cult or sect” because of anti-abortion “violence” to “deny civil rights” (hoovering one’s kids on demand) as the reason.
Been retired for a number of years. Wondering if military performs laser eye surgery on active duty people? If DoD/whomever relents and performs this procedure on Manning, then why not laser eye surgery for active duty? Or even breast augmentation, facelifts, etc.
I’d also surmise that Manning believes he/she is not going anywhere for the next few decades, and why not lobby for this procedure, nothing to lose. The times, they are a changing.
The military DOES offer both breast augmentation and laser eye surgery for active duty members. I am not sure about the facelift though. But when I was active duty, I looked into the laser eye surgery. At the time, they were only giving it to people who had a certain MOS and I did not have an MOS on that list so I didn’t get to partake in that. BUT…..one of the girls I worked with at Walter Reed had a breast augmentation done for free (she was also active duty) by one of the surgeons there. Does it happen all the time? Probably not, but I know she had it done. This was probably 2004 when she did it so who knows what the rules are now.
That’s a change from the ’80s… knew a couple of girls who had reductions due to recurrent back pain etc, but at that time they told me it was a one-way street- augmentation was considered optional elective surgery, and the military only did medically necessary surgery.
So my question is this: will the acceptance of transgender soldiers make the Military more combat effective? If the answer is no, then they can leave. The purpose of the Military is to FIGHT and WIN the nation’s wars. Period.
As for (wo)Manning, he can go f*&k himself with a baseball bat wrapped in concertina wire. Traitors to the United States should just be happy they are still breathing air, let alone demanding a sex change operation. Not on the Taxpayer’s dime at least.
The only ‘change’ he should be getting based off his childish temper-tantrum of an attention getting scheme (the whole wikileaks thing) is his body going from warm to cold after a short drop.
I weep for America.