Hagel proposes to shrink Army to pre-Pearl Harbor numbers
Ex-PH2 sends us a link to MSN which refers to a New York Times article published yesterday which gives a peek into Chuck Hagel’s plan to ask Congress to cut the numbers of the Army to pre-1940 size.
The proposal, described by several Pentagon officials on the condition of anonymity in advance of its release on Monday, takes into account the fiscal reality of government austerity and the political reality of a president who pledged to end two costly and exhausting land wars. A result, the officials argue, will be a military capable of defeating any adversary, but too small for protracted foreign occupations.
The officials acknowledge that budget cuts will impose greater risk on the armed forces if they are again ordered to carry out two large-scale military actions at the same time: Success would take longer, they say, and there would be a larger number of casualties. Officials also say that a smaller military could invite adventurism by adversaries.
Yeah, well, I guess we figure that everyone on the planet is so impressed with Smart diplomacy that we’re no longer a target. I remember when we cut the number of troops in the early 90s, operational tempo (OpTempo) didn’t decrease along with the numbers. In fact, the administration that depended heavily on the use of cruise missiles to project our political goals was able to deplete our stocks of missiles without replacing them. I also remember an MP company at Fort Hood which had no training ammo for their M9s.
There are History Channel documentaries which show US troops in the 1940s training with wooden rifles because there weren’t any real rifles available. Of course, the US was able to call up troops to swell it’s ranks quickly in 1942 because we had a draft, not an advantage Hagel could draw upon in this day and age.
How ’bout we draw the EPA down to pre-Nixon numbers, or we reduce the Education Department to pre-Carter days? Or Health and Human Services Department to the pre-Johnson era? Makes about as much sense to me.
From Fox News;
Officials told the Times that Hagel’s plan has been endorsed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and protects funding for Special Operations forces and cyberwarfare. It also calls for the Navy to maintain all eleven of its aircraft carriers currently in operation. However, the budget proposal mandates the elimination of the entire fleet of Air Force A-10 attack aircraft, as well as the retiring of the U-2 spy plane, a stalwart of Cold War operations.
Good. We should reduce the Joint Chiefs to pre-1940 numbers, too, if they truly think that this is maintaining our defensive posture.
Category: Barack Obama/Joe Biden, Big Army
…all we need is double digit inflation and 20% interest rates and it really will be Carter 2.0. Hell, we even have a new Cold War brewing in the East…except this time we owe them a shit load of money. “May you live in interesting times.”
I remember in the 90’s being given 15 blank rounds for a 14 day force on force training exercise because we couldn’t afford more.
You know, when you announce that you’re cutting back on your household protection, it tends to draw the bad guys to your neighborhood.
I think this is as naive as you can get. His excuse is that we aren’t in a large land war episode. Should I send Chuckie Cheese a letter and ask him if he remembers Pearl Harbor? I could do that, along with a copy of my next book. And I could demand that he stop snooping into my computer and stealing my ideas.
@2. Those 15 blanks will seem extravagant soon. Trainees will be yelling “Bang! Bang!” before they’re through and throwing rocks as grenades.
The current Administration wants US defense to “focus on Asia”. Yet we’re cutting the “boots on the ground” part of the US military to pre-World War II levels.
God help us if we actually do have to fight in Asia. The mindset there is quite different from ours. They still realize that casualties are going to happen in war – and that “boots on the ground manpower” is essential to seizing and controlling terrain.
And they have the manpower.
In Germany during the last draw-down. Halfway through it Desert Shield/Storm rolls around. What a full blown mess. Never want to see that again.
@4, been there done that. Our machine gunners would yell “bu-bu-bu-bu-budget cuts” as the sound of them “firing” their weapons.
What they said in the early ’90s they’re saying again… we’ll still have a capable force… we’ll have a leaner and meaner military… we’ll be smaller but we’ll be able to pack a lot of punch…
As was pointed out in the article, operational tempo didn’t change. When they failed to reduce our operational commitments to match the numbers that we had, we ended up with the “sacrifice without compensation” atmosphere. Those that survived the cut ended up with the full workload. You had service members doing the job of two or three service members. This lead to longer hours “at work” while in garrison and less time for down times.
This, along with reduced retirement for new service members, and other benefits, contributed to a massive hemorrhage on the retention side of the house.
Another thing that pro military cut people don’t understand is that things were different before World War II than after. Our war inventory is more complex now and we no longer have the convenience of having the British Empire shouldering the lead.
Speaking of which, this is a repeat of the turn of the 20th Century, and the 1930s. Instead of the Germans building up their military might, we have the Chinese building up theirs in the face of us drawing ours down. This move contributes to recreating the conditions that make it possible to have to face these major conflicts again.
The Emperor will get some cover for his sequestration disaster…Bam y’know, is just following the “republican” defense chief’s proposals.
Meanwhile the White House proposes $56 billion in new spending-http://thefederalist.com/2014/02/21/the-imaginary-era-of-austerity-comes-to-an-end/
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” I’d posit that Hagel should read that, but I do believe he has. He just doesn’t care. Nor does his boss.
As 68W said, they’re going to blow another $56 Billion, but Defense has to take the fall for the rest of the government.
Just remember that the horse cavalry and the Remount were still in use prior to WWII. Yeah, they were. There’s film of that some place.
Hagel wants to get rid of the tank killers, too. I know that’s in the article, but apparently, he thinks that something so efficient, durable and well-designed is useless and not glamorous enough for today’s military.
I keep saying, I don’t care how old the technology is. If it works and does the job, keep it. Why else would we be using bullets instead of heat ray guns?
Or am I the only one who saw the photos from Kiev of the slingshots and the ballista?
I always remember this line from Monty Python “It’s symbolic of his struggle against reality”
Our armed forces will all become “Task Force Smith’s”
I am having flashbacks of the videos we were forced to watch in the early 90’s with the whole no more Task Forc Smith’s crap, only this is worse. Also curious if the Navy will be made to give up the failed experiment of the LCS or the the Navy and AF with that hung of junk F-35 cuts to both programs could save much more money.
Not to mention the threats we face now are more diverse and complex than ever before and not goign away at all. We are relying on way to much technology and going to find ourseleves in trouble before too long with hard earned lessons lost to politics and having to be paid for with blood again. History always seems to repeat it self.
With the cutbacks, feminization and social engineering of today’s military, a Task Force Smith would be an improvement.
This move has been going on for a while. Las projections I did based on past numbers given would drop the Army to below 400K if fully implemented. This continual move is dangerous for us in the long term, but also in the short term if/when we end up going into Syria. Not looking forward to these continually stupid moves by the civilians at DoD.
The good news is that Homeland Security is getting a shitload of ammo and “resources”, so we got that going for us…
The military and Veteran voters tend to be conservative traditionalists. In other words, we are of no benefit to the libs and Dems. So, screw us. It’s much more important to increase entitlements and ensure that illegal immigrants with no love for the USA are given amnesty so they can vote. And when the shit hits the fan again, they’ll be recalling to active duty the very people they’re showing their asses to now. And, you know what? Our people will show up.
Hagel is the “republican” face on Dear Leader’s ongoing efforts to decimate the military and destroy our ability to deter aggression and project force. Dempsey, Amos and the rest of those JCS yahoos are nothing but craven lapdogs. Anyone wearing all those stars who thinks it is OK to reduce the Army, for example, to pre-World War II levels in the current world environment is unfit to wear those stars.
I have a dollar that says the number of flags stays the same.
islandofmisfittoys: current SECDEF proposals keep the F-35. Not sure about the LCS.
According to historical budget figures, FY1940 defense spending was 1.7 percent of GDP. FY41 was 5.6 percent. Even if you split the difference, it’s more than we’re spending now.
If we cut to 1.7 percent, we couldn’t even be a part of NATO anymore, given that membership requirements dictate 2 percent of GDP is spent on defense, and even then, we’re still footing nearly 75 percent of NATO’s bill.
The Chinese, OTOH, are ramping up quite nicely, despite their tanking economy. Take from that what you will.
And ask those guys at Pearl, Bataan, Wake, etc., how well those cuts worked out for them in late 1941/early 1942.
I guess it’s back to Coastal Artillery and Battleships. We will have to set up permanent SAM batteries and picket patrols on both coasts. The only power we will be able to project will be by Presidential proclamations on the nightly Al Zejeera news broadcast. If china attacks Japan or S.Korea we can send a stern yet toothless diplomatic note strongly condemning their aggression. China will not be restrained by the Paper Tiger Obama is creating. I only hope they give us the time we need to arm all of our government bureaucrats, functionaries, and drones.
@24, yep, coastal artillery and battleships, but there won’t be any money for training or ammo, or fuel for the battleships.
However, the government will announce that each and every “immigrant” who manages to cross the Rio Grande will be given, courtesy of the taxpayers, a new Iphone, a new apartment, free healthcare, and will be automatically registered to vote.
@25 – you forgot to add “in the Democratic party of his choice”
@19 2/17 Air Cav
Kipling’s poem “Tommy” seems appropriate at this point (again).
http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/tommy.html
This is beyond illogical.
Thanks, Obama.
China is flexing and the world is literally in flames in many regions which were once relatively peaceful.
WTF is going on…..
The one huge mistake made in military cuts is that the ass-kissing JSOC and every Colonel and above will make cost cutting their primary mission, instead of combat readiness. They will be ranked and promoted based on how much $$$$ they save instead of how well their units can function in the field
Don’t forget you are going on Garistion Duty not combat training. The raises in Tricare is so that a suplus of funds built up again and the goverment can take it for something CONGRESS forgot about. Question,was Tricare even given a IOU or a promise ? PS Please forgive the bad spelling, Meds kicking in hard. My Baby Girl ripped me off my feet and drug me a few yards. Baby Girl is a 150 pound Rotwieller. She was protecting me from a little ankle biter being walked in the middle of the street. Joe
BOHICA!