AK-47s everywhere
UpNorth sends us a link to Bob Owens‘ post about the West Palm Beach police chief who can’t tell the difference between a Soviet AK-47 and an American M-1 carbine. They also can’t tell the difference between a magazine for an AK-47 and a magazine for an M-1 carbine. And if they tried to fire that ammunition through the rifle in the picture, they might be surprised. But, hey, the M1 has a wooden stock and an AK has a wooden stock. The M1 is magazine fed and the AK is magazine fed. So they’re the same right?
So we don’t know what kind of weapon Demitri Polen pointed at Officer Christopher Nebbeling, but we do know that Polen won’t do that again. Good shooting, officer, even though it took 12 rounds.
The video of the police chief’s press conference auto-starts so it’s below the jump;
Category: Guns
They don’t have to know anything about what they are doing.
How the hell does a gangster get an antique like the m1? Did he steal it from his grandpa?
“Moonfest?”
Hey, in the chief’s mind, they’re both “.30 caliber assault weapons”, so they must be the same thing, right ????!!!!
@2: several American companies made commercial versions of the GI-issued M1 carbine from the 1950’s well into the 1970’s; my bet is that this particular carbine is probably one of the post-war commercial copies…
a Universal Carbine, AK Magazine and loose 5.56mm M193
Ok, regardless of what type of rifle it is, if pointed at the cop the kid got what he deserved (even if it took the cop firing 12 rounds to do it).
The statement that it had a round in the chamber that could have penetrated the officers body armor… possibly it could have.
The fact that they completely blow the identity of this rifle though as being an AK is absolutely insane. not to mention the collection rounds and magazine, none of which would work in that rifle is an even greater display of stupidity.
One thug off the street, but man they all need some training on weapons.
Reminds me of a conversation I had with my aunt a while back. She was showing me a picture of my cousin in Afghanistan with an HK416, which she called a “semiautomatic machine gun.” I briefly facepalmed, because my aunt is a sweet lady who’s not even anti-gun. Then I had to explain to her that A) There’s no such thing, B) “Semiauto MG” is contradictory, C) It’s a rifle, not a machine gun, big difference(which i had to explain), and D) It’s select-fire (then had to explain that concept).
From my dearly-beloved and well-meaning aunt it’s one thing. From an LE chief who is trusted and PAID to accurately investigate and report facts to the public and the court, that’s another thing entirely.
He probably has a revolver with a 7 round magazine or a semi-auto with a quick loader!
@5: You forgot the JHP handgun round.
@6: Training?!?! They doan need no stinking training!! They wear a badge and get a uniform and THAT should be enough for everyone to know that that, alone, qualifies as training (through osmosis).
On a serious note: The public has a false belief that law enforcement are “experts” on firearms and they’re not. The public believes that they’re highly trained and they’re not (I’ve had that argument with many people who think that the police are the only ones who should be armed). The public believes what law enforcement tells them and that’s not just sad, but, also, dangerous (I watched a retired FBI agent lie through his teeth in a committee hearing I attended).
I was curious about the weapon with the pic show before the video link was opened. After watching the video and listening to the statement it seems that the rifle on the table is not the one from the shooting. It was another rifle. I doubt they would take a weapon from an active and open investigation, complicating the chain of evidence, just to use it for a news conference. Most likely the spokesman knowing the news media vultures “need” something to show the public the Dept. brought down something from the storage locker to appease the media. It would have been better to bring an actual AK but better something rather than an empty table so folks would be less likely to speculate that there wasn’t any weapon at all.
I found the trite comment in the original blog about the number of rounds used by the Officer to be a bit egregious. I am totally sure that all infantry in combat everywhere hit with every shot and practice strict ammo conservation, just like the armchair generals who like to critique from their keyboards. (sarcasm alert for the sarcasm detection deficient)
I hate to be picky, but those ammos look a little bit too long for that magazine clip thingy.
Why is that pistol handle stuck on a hunting rifle?
Did I miss something? Oh, yeah – I missed the paranoia that is infesting the police in Florida… and almost everyhwere else.
So the chief says the weapon was found with a round in the chamber. Unless there are other rounds and magazines we are not shown; the chief is a liar. Those rounds and that magazine will not fit into that weapon. Now don’t get me wrong. If you point a rifle (or something that looks like a rifle) at a police officer, be it loaded or otherwise, you take your own life into your hands and garner no sympathy from me. But it seems that the family could have a civil rights case against the department with the chief getting on television and making false or misleading statements about the incident. Anyone else?
NM; just re-watched the video. He says the weapon used is “very similar to this” and gestures to the one on the table. My bad I need to remember to measure twice, cut once.
Police officers are far from experts, and do sometimes use their position to sway opinion against someone or something. Years ago, as a fresh-faced 18-year-old, I got pulled for speeding on the way to the shooting range and informed the state trooper that I had two firearms in the car. He cited me for two counts of concealed weapons and the court found me not guilty of concealing a snub-nose revolver but guilty of concealing an 18″ barrel shotgun. I appealed and the cop brought my (former) gun to the court, telling the judge that it was an assault weapon with a 9-round magazine and that–in his opinion–no private citizen should own such a weapon. The judge upheld the conviction and meted out stiffer punishment so I resisted my lawyers advice to appeal again. Hell, at the rate I was going I might just be getting released. 🙂
Welcome to the world of gun ownership, fm2176! I soon became very knowledgeable on gun laws and guns themselves and learned that only rarely are cops your friend when you’re the defendant.
EX-PH2 … Don’t be silly. You did not miss a thing. Details just details … they have nothing to do with this story!
Satirical response provided by MCPO!
Thank you, Master Chief. I’m learning a LO-O-O-OT more from this blog than I ever would watching the local PDs when they have a news conference.
I’m waiting breathlessly to find out what comes next when someone points out the difference between an AK-47 and a carbine.
I think my only question about that photo is below, and refer to the photo before answering: the handle is a pistol grip, attached to a carbine. That makes – in my unexpert eyes – for a rather unwieldly, unbalanced weapon that, at best, might hit the broadside of a barn in bright daylight, but at its worst, would be likely to throw the user completely off balance and/or break/crack a rib in the process. There is nothing to use to brace the weapon for recoil. It looks like it’s been ‘remanufactured’ or maybe ‘customized’, as I do not see a folding stock on it, either.
Therefore, is this ‘weapon’ actually usable, and if so, is it safe to use?
The auto play of that commercial is almost as annoying as the clueless chief.
M-1 AK.
There.
@16: Ex-PH2, the weapon in question does have a bottom-folding stock, the stock is in its bottom-retracted position in the photo, with the metal buttstock snug against the bottom of the wood stock to the front of the trigger housing and magazine well…
That isn’t the weapon I saw in the first article. The first article I read identified the gun as an Airsoft AK-47. And it LOOKED like an AK-47, not like that abortion in the picture above.
@19: Yep, that’s the M-1 Carbine Paratrrooper version carried by paratroopers on D-Day in WWII.
It’s almost like the police and media have a ready bag filled with this stuff that they just throw on the table and take a picture of every time there’s a story involving firearms. That way, they don’t have to show the actual firearms so they can put the scariest looking stuff on display for the low information types.
Anybody read the mom’s comments? The standard “He was a good boy” and “He wouldn’t hurt nothing.” A couple paragraphs later she mentions he’s been shot twice before in drive-by’s. I can understand maybe shot once as an innocent bystander in a drive-by but twice tells me he was a hood rat
Thanks, Combat Historian. That pile of stuff looks like it was thrown together for the effect, mostly to stir up the uninformed. Since I do not know, I do ask questions – but of people who know what the hell they’re talking about, not these FL personages.
Just to clarify what this particular M-1 carbine is: It’s an aftermarket or civilian production model, as #4 mentioned above.
The M-1 carbine pictured above has the under swing wire stock and no bayonet lug.
The military paratrooper model had a much more robust wire frame attached to the rear of the stock and the bottom of the pistol grip and collapsed to the side of the weapon. It also had a bayonet lug mounted on a small barrel shroud in front of the forearm.
PH2 – an M1 is damn near recoilless; it shoots a light bullet at comparatively moderate velocities and it’s recoil is probably less than an M16 or AR15. The pistol grip is actually useful – put your off hand in front of you about a foot in front of your face. Hold it like you would be supporting a stock? then hold it like you were gripping a vetical handguard. MUCH less stress on elbow and wrist.
I think it shoudl be a law – if a cop does an exhibit like this of a weapon, magazine, ammo, etc, he should be required to make it all shoot together. Or be branded a liar.
Not trying to condone the show yet put on but it seems apparent they simply grabbed a gu out of the evidence locker and threw it out on display for the press conference.
@25 – ‘or be branded a liar’: I like that idea.
Chicago’s crime rate is now reported to have dropped by 15%, but the shootings continue and are continually reported, so who or what do I believe?
David: um, not so sure about that, amigo.
The M1 carbine shot a relatively light bullet (110 gr, relatively small case, less than 2000fps muzzle velocity). Haven’t fired it, so I can’t compare the recoil with that of an M16. But given it has 2x the bullet weight of the 5.56mm round and 2/3 the muzzle velocity, I’d guess it might well have more recoil.
On the other hand, the other M1 (the M1 Garand rifle) fired the .30-06 Springfield cartridge. I guarantee it kicked way more than a M16. (smile)
@25 – ‘or be branded a liar’: I like that idea.
I do wonder why no reporter ever asks one of those cops to put those pieces together. You know, load the bullets into the magazine – that sort of thing – or attach the magazine to the gun.
Maybe it’s just too hard?