Here’s the Thanks We Get from the Syrian Opposition
I’ve written a few times before (here, here, and here) on events in Syria. BLUF: I think we’re making a serious mistake in supporting the Syrian rebels. We don’t seem to know – or, alternatively, don’t seem to care – who they are or what they represent. And our recent track record in Egypt and Libya doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in the current Administration’s ability to manage such crises.
Well today we have this. The folks who we’re supporting in Syria (the Syrian rebels) are apparently giving the US the finger by publicly burning the US flag.
Yeah, that’s from Infowars. But I don’t think Alex Jones and crew fabricated the video clip.
As I’ve said before: tell me again why we’re supporting these folks?
Category: Foreign Policy, Military issues, Terror War
Screw these goat rappers. Let them kill each other off and the world would be a better place.
Ughhh, stupid fat fingers. No I do not believe that haj-T tells his goats poems set to a beat.
This is one I really don’t know what to do with. On the one hand, I do not want to support the Syrian opposition for all the reasons you just mentioned. Essentially, if the Syrian rebels win it will pave the way for more Sunni related terrorist organizations in the area. At the same time however, I don’t support Assad killing thousands of innocent civilians either. This is one of those “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situations. No matter which group we support, we lose. So the instinctive reaction is to just stay the hell out of it. But then we have no influence on the final product. And that almost always bears bad for us. I always like to think “if I were president this is what I’d do.” But in this situation, I really have no idea.
Twist, I like the idea of goat rappers. It’s the inspiration for a video, especially with some narcoleptic goats in it. And hamsters. I will compose an appropriate and epic saga.
Since there are so many Syrian refugees pouring into camps across the Turkish border, it might be more diplomatic to support Turkey’s efforts to house and feed them, maybe give them stuff that they can take back later, like seeds if they are farmers, to start over once things have settled down.
On the other hand, this series of demonstrations and riots in north Africa and the rest of the Middle East may go on for a while, so it might be best to wait until after the elections in November to do anything.
So that two groups of people that don’t like us to begin with are keep spending all their time and energy killing each other.
Three point plan:
1- Withdraw all embassy & other people from the middle east. Assets too if it can be managed.
2-High altitude bomb or cruise missle (or whatever is handy) all embassies &leftover assets. After all, they’re on soverign US territory, right? Ours to dispose of as we wish,right? Anyone that’s not supposed to be in there after we’ve gone, and gets caught in the fire & explosion, well, too bad for them.
3- Drill & mine for energy assets (coal, oil, natural gas) within the US. Leave these goat rapers to drown in their oil. Or eat it. Watch it’s value plummet along with their importance in the world.
F**k ‘ em AND the camel they rode in on.
Its a balancing act. We let them down, now they will follow alternative views. Anti-imperialist rethorics for instance..they will focus on distrusting nation-states altogether..which means either Iran, China and US. But if we don’t try to understand what has just happened, they’ll rebuild alliances with Iranians because they’ll feel threatened by the global system (US militaro-industrial complex and the financial system).
Feel threatened by the global system? They’re frightened by indoor plumbing. I gotta go with Woodman on this.
What UpNorth said. The goat rapers can all go straight to hell.
A lot of people died because we stayed on the sideline.
While I understand why we did, people were killed.
Their main effort is so fragmented that they are getting exploited over fucking nonsense.
IF they cannot figure it out, FUCK THEM!
Hondo, previously, I’ve stated that by the one year mark, the Intelligence damn sure should have known who the hell is doing what and in what cafe the leaders are meeting to plan their future dictatorships. At present, who’s supporting what is more openly known to the world: The Iranians are supporting the current (Assad) regime, including with the deployment to Syria of the Quds (Jerusalem) Force, which is their “special operations” terrorist trainers, who’s mission is to train up pro-Assad “militias” or rather terrorists. These are the same people who RUN Hezbollah for the Ayatollah Khameni, and report directly to him. Hezbollah, (Iranian ran terrorists), and their religious leader, Nasrallah are calling for indefinite protests “over the video.” Al-Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood (incl. Egypt) are supporting the rebels. This includes on ground combatant terrorists and trainers. And this is a very likely source for your “protestors.” And then there is the majority, who primarily oppose Bashir Assad, and have various degrees of loyalty for Freedom and Democracy, but abhor Islamism (i.e. Iran, Muslim Brotherhood, & Al-Qaeda). At present, these groups are allied with the Islamists of MB & AQ, because frankly, no one else is giving them any kind of significant military assistance, and AQ has the greatest military prowess on the field of battle. From here, there are basically two political philsophies that can be followed: 1) Leave your enemies alone when they are killing each other. 2) Choose the best ally and attempt to use your influence to change the battlefield. There is an historical precedent. In WWII and its aftermath, Yugoslavia was up for grabs. (Ditto China.) In Yugoslavia, the Partisans were fighting the NAZIs as were the Communists, under Tito. While many on here know that Tito won, less would know that we threw our weight behind him, while he let the Partisans take the bulk of the casualties against the Nazis, and then swept through to mop up the stragglers. Yugoslavia became the edge of Iron Curtain. In China, we backed the Nationalists, who lost the mainland, and fell back to Taiwan. Later… Read more »
@11.
Nice synopsis.
To put the number of Islamist protestors in context, its about equivalent to the number of Occupier protestors, nationwide in the US. “The 99%” are hardly representative of the average American, but they certainly were rusty old squeaky wheels.
Why did we spend trillions in Iraq?
Here’s “our friends” the Iraquis burning an American flag:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/13/us-embassy-attacks-iran-iraq_n_1880773.html
Of course they have a bit more reason to protest us since we destroyed their country in order to “save it”. So much less “inept” than President Obama who shepherded democracies to Egypt and Libya and a host of Arab Countries without protracted wars and dead Americans.
insipid: does this mean you finally admit we probably left Iraq a bit early?
Insipid and Hondo step into the virtual Thunderdome. *grabs popcorn*
Sadly, sippy is like that little midget without the huge ‘tarded baby.
Enjoy your time in the pig shit, sippy.
Oh, and what you cite is what happens when liberals piss on military and diplomatic efforts. See Vietnam, et al, for more examples.
@15- Yeah, because occupying a country is a sure-fire way of getting them to love us. If only we could occupy the ENTIRE Middle East. Oh well… I’m sure if, by some miracle, Mitt gets in he’ll give it a shot.
This has come about because of reaction to an idiotic movie that was broadcast on Egyptian TV by THEIR right-wing media. It has nothing to do with any supposed mistakes on our part in supporting Democracy. This is only people who don’t understand our free-speech exercising it themeselves. Democracy is a good thing, though it can get loud and raucus at times. The belief you seem to have that it’s only valid if it is “given” to people through the force of U.S. arms is peculiar.
I know you’re rooting for a big melt-down in the Middle East so that you can proclaim President Obama’s a second Carter. Unfortunately he’s handled this with the same complete competance he handles everything:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-15/arab-protests-ease-after-days-of-rage-against-anti-muslim-film.html
Imagine that? Diffusing a situation without bombing them! I know it’s hard for neo-cons to imagine. Of couse it’s also impossible for them to impliment.
insipid: well, I agree with you. The current administration has handled the current ME crisis with the same competence they’ve shown to date in virtually everything else they’ve tried.
Allow me to recap the Administration’s “competence” in this area to date:
1. We stood by and watch while one longtime, stable ally is deposed and replaced by a regime dominated by Islamists (Egypt).
2. We did nothing while a second stable and generally Western-supporting regime is replaced by unknowns (Tunisia).
3. We actively helped replace the leadership in a third nation, which had turned from terror supporter to de facto Western supporter, has its leadership replaced by Islamists (Libya).
4. We stood by and did nothing while a second longtime ally was deposed by a questionable replacement regime (Yemen).
5. And, finally, we apparently have made a decision to support anti-American Islamists in Syria.
Yeah, that’s really great work in advancing US national interests in the Arab World. What a concept: enable your enemies and destroy your allies! Why didn’t we try that before!
Nasrallah, Ahmadinejad, and al-Zawahiri couldn’t have scripted that better if they’d done it themselves. The comparison with Carter’s clueless Middle East policies of the late 1970s is fully apropos.
Yo Instupid … please it is too early for this sh*t. It is hump day, we are all trying to concentrate and get some work done.
And, as an addendum:
6. We left Iraq about a year early, leaving a nascent regime in place that was about a year away from truly being able to manage its own affairs. As a result, anti-American interests there are causing significant troubles, and may well end up regaining control.
7. We appear to be going down pretty much the same path in Afghanistan.
@18: We occupied Italy, Germany, and Japan. We occupied South Korea. So………I think your initial argument doesn’t really stand up. I’m just sayin.
Oh for goodness sakes Japan attacked us and Germany declared war on us and was well on his way to conquering Europe. Sadam never attacked us and had been nicely contained for the previous 13 years. Plus the occupations of Germany and Japan were a good deal more docile than that of Iraq. Plus I don’t think you conservatives really want to get into the whole WWII thing since you were such ardent appologists for Germany right up until Pearl Harbor.
Hondo’s points boil down to two ideas that each can be sumarized in 3 words: We love dictatorships and We hate freedom. The Arab Spring consisted of over 100 million people throwing off tyranny and you’re having a sad because it’s not completely neat and clean. I kind of recall a few bumps in the road when we declared our freedom (cough* slavery* cough* civil war).
” Plus I don’t think you conservatives really want to get into the whole WWII thing since you were such ardent appologists for Germany right up until Pearl Harbor.”
– As opposed to you “progressives” being ardent apologists for all things communist?
My question in all of this is:
“Why are we supporting anyone else’s civil wars/revolutions to begin with?”
“Plus I don’t think you conservatives really want to get into the whole WWII thing since you were such ardent appologists for Germany right up until Pearl Harbor.”
According to Liberals the two parties switched sides after the signing of the Civil Rights Act. Which is it?
I should of said “certain Liberals”. Sorry to our left leaning friends here at TAH for my broad brush stroke.
It appears that Hondo hit a home run, and sip was left sputtering about WWII.
Oh, and sippy? The protests aren’t dying down, as Bloomberg claims, they’re spreading. See Indonesia, see Thailand.
Any bets on what happens Friday, the day that things really get rocking after the Imams fire up the crowds of goat rapers?
And, Obama’s backers, the Chinese government seems to be staging “protests” against the U.S. I wonder if that’s just a coincidence.
@23
It’s not about loving dictatorships and hating freedom. It’s about Jefferson.
Thomas Jefferson once said (and I’m paraphrasing here, I’ll go google up the exact quote if needed) “For democracy to succeed, you need an educated electorate”. I don’t think that in any terms other than the most generous can the general population of the ME be considered educated. Hell, for that matter I don’t think the general population of the US can be either. Education in this instance doesn’t necessarily mean you have a string of letters after your name. It means having a decent idea of what the hell is going on around you and having a decent idea of what the consequences of actions (or inaction) are.
This doesn’t doesn’t mean we keep and empower dictatorships.
It does mean we let them sort it out for themselves somewhat, and seek to lessen the impact to neighboring nations where we can. It does mean we can offer counsel.
However, this is a remarkably complex situation and while the back and forth in the comments of a blog are fun and all, I hope nobody is really believing that captures the actual complexity.
No, insipid. My thoughts above can be boiled down to a different four words: “promote US national interests”. Regarding the Middle East and North Africa, the US has precisely two vital national interests in that region: (1) peace/stability and (2) countering radical Islamic terrorism. The former is necessary for a healthy world economy, on which the US economy depends (oil from the ME is still essential for the economic health of many of our primary trading partners in Europe and the Pacific). The reason the second is necessary should be obvious even to a tool like you. Ergo, from the US perspective anything that promotes these two outcomes is a good thing; anything that detracts from these two outcomes is not. All other US interests in the region are secondary or tertiary. They should be pursued only when they do not conflict with one of the two US vital interests. Further: your bringing up “democracy” in this context is both a complete non sequitur and demonstrates that you are appallingly ignorant. By Western standards, none of the regimes involved in the “Arab Spring” I mentioned – e.g., Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Yemen, or Syria – are truly free democracies. That was true both before and after the Arab Spring uprisings. Want proof? Just ask the Coptic Christians about Egypt’s concept of “freedom” as it applies to them. Or former regime supporters in Libya. Or any group of dissidents in any country in the region. And to show just how absolutely clueless you are here regarding democracy and freedom in the region, consider the governments in power today in both Iraq and Afghanistan. In point of fact both the current Iraqi government and the current Afghan government are huge improvements, freedom- and democracy-wise, over the dictatorial regimes they replaced. From your remarks above, it appears you obviously would prefer their predecessors were still in power. In fact, there’s precisely one regime in the entire Middle East/North African/Central Asian region that would by Western standards be considered a free democracy, plus maybe one other on the periphery of that region. The democracy would… Read more »
@23: “Plus I don’t think you conservatives really want to get into the whole WWII thing since you were such ardent appologists for Germany right up until Pearl Harbor.”
Um; who was the Ambassador to Great Britain that was staunchly opposed to war with Germany? He was so outspoken about it that he was replaced by FDR. What was his name………..Joseph Kennedy, I think? Yeah, real staunch conservative right there.
“Plus the occupations of Germany and Japan were a good deal more docile than that of Iraq.”
Have you ever heard of the Nazi Werwolf teams?
You might want to tone down the frothing and actually study your history a smidge, before opening your piehole and revealing your ignorance.
Well there’s always their fallback position GM is alive and OBL is dead….
Of course the part they don’t mention is that we a running a 4 billion a day deficit under the “leadership” of this regime along with adding 57% to the amount of money owed to China and are well on our way to being a really big version of Greece…no offense Greeks, but I really don’t want your style of “democracy” to appear and take root in the land of the free and the home of the brave.
The other big thing about the democrats is how they love to put forth the myth that thanks to Obama the world once again respects our president…I think we are seeing the respect the middle east has for the president, our enemies know there is no consequence to burning our embassies and consulates under this administration beyond some rhetoric…the Carter analogy is appropriate on virtually every level.
VOV,
GM is alive and OBL is dead….and we will completly ignore that we bailed out Chrystler which was then bought by a foreign company.
And, now we can ignore that GM wants out from under Obama’s skirts, but he says no. And, GM is alive and shipping jobs south and overseas, on our money.