No ammo for Marines at Egypt Embassy?
Several of you sent us this link to the Washington Beacon‘s article about the Marines in Egypt who are reporting on various forums that they had no ammo the other day when the embassy was attacked. I wasn’t going to mention it to you guys because it just looked like a published rumor which fit our perception of this administration.
But the folks at the Washington Beacon contacted us and asked if you guys knew where these rumors were coming from. I’m not so naive to think that this is the only place you hang out, so if any of you Marines know which message boards and which Marines are saying this, we’d sure like to know. Screen shots would be great, or if you could get someone to email us so we can verify or lay the rumor to rest. And y’all know how I protect my sources.
The Beacon is getting their information from Nightwatch who isn’t sourcing their comments either;
NightWatch Special Comment: Ambassador Anne Patterson’s April Glaspie moment.
Ambassador Anne Patterson, the US Ambassador to Egypt, experienced her ‘April Glaspie’ moment yesterday when she blamed Americans instead of Egyptians for attacking, storming and desecrating the US Embassy in Cairo and the US Flag.
Old hands will remember, April Glaspie, who was a rising star in the State Department’s constellation of diplomats. Her notorious conversation with Saddam Hussein in early 1990 led Saddam to believe that the US encouraged and condoned an Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.
Having worked closely with US officials for a decade in the struggle and war against Iran, Saddam understood that everything after the Glaspie talk was plausible deniability by US President Bush, 41.
Glaspie misunderstood and misjudged the Iraqi leadership and the situation in Iraq. Patterson’s operations at the US Embassy in Cairo bespeak a comparable misjudgment of the Egyptian Arab situation, its volatility and the depth of anti-American sentiment.
She did not permit US Marine guards to carry live ammunition, according to USMC blogs. Thus she neutralized any US military capability that was dedicated to preserve her life and protect the US Embassy.
In this respect, she did not defend US sovereign territory and betrayed her oath of office. She neutered the Marines posted to defend the embassy, trusting the Egyptians over the Marines.
She apparently judges that Egyptian President Mursi spearheads a democracy and a new civil order, despite the mounting evidence that Mursi disregards US interests, cavorts with US enemies, is a budding authoritarian ruler who disdains parliament and does not honor the basic obligations of diplomatic agreements and the Geneva conventions.
Readers, by definition, whenever an embassy of any country is overrun by locals in any country, everyone knows that the ambassador and senior staff must be replaced.
Category: Marine Corps
I don’t think this has been substantiated yet. HQMC has not weighed in, and little is coming out of MSG HQ.
Wow! Just Wow! I didn’t realize that “Lessons Learned” papers would get archived so quickly and forgotten about so easily over at the Foggy Bottom. Does anyone remember the 241 of Beruit anymore and the asine order from the DoS via the DoD to not have the gate guards armed because of fears of offending the locals? The same locals who were in the midist of a form of tribal genocide unseen since the early part of the 20th century.
D’oh not enough coffe. I meant unarmed.
Is it reasonable to expect anything but an official denial, if they respond at all?
Ya, when I saw that I wondered…not entirely implausible but I would be a little surprised if they didn’t have ammo if they had prior warning about the protest.
…sounds like the LCpl Underground Rumor Mill.
Be careful with this. As I am sitting here at my desk, thinking like our determined enemy, this could possibly be the type of mis-information they want in order advance their tactical position. Without a source … dangerous info! If it is not true … dangerous info! If it is true … dangerous info! We are glued to the TV here … this is not going well!
BTW. The same thing happened in Yemen in 2000. We have very short memories. We never should have been refueling in Yemen. It was a known hot bed for terrorists and Bodine refused to recognize that … the USS Cole and her crew paid the price. Read below about Bodine and FBI SAC O’Neill. O’Neill is the one who cracked the al-Qaeda code long before the term was popular. O’Neill died on September 11, 2001 at the WTC knowing the attack was coming! From Wiki: On November 7, 1997, Bodine was appointed to be Ambassador to the Republic of Yemen. Bodine’s appointment in Sana’a coincided with events of major importance in Yemen: In 1999, Bodine negotiated the release of three Americans kidnapped in Yemen. On October 12, 2000, the destroyer Cole was bombed in a terrorist attack in the Gulf of Aden. In January 2001, en route to the Yemeni city of Taiz to meet with the country’s president, a flight carrying Bodine and 90 other passengers from Yemen was hijacked mid-flight. The plane was diverted to the small African nation of Djibouti, where it landed without further incident. Bodine left Yemen as ambassador on August 30, 2001. Bodine’s career was marked by controversy surrounding Bodine’s relationship with the FBI during its investigation of the USS Cole bombing: The PBS Frontline documentary The Man Who Knew included interviews with officials such as Richard A. Clarke (the Clinton administration’s counterterrorism chief) and Barry Mawn (a former head of the New York FBI office) who stated that John P. O’Neill (an FBI agent and al-Qaeda expert) came into a personal conflict with Bodine over different perspectives on Yemen. When O’Neill briefly traveled back to New York for Thanksgiving, Bodine denied his re-entry visa, blocking O’Neill from returning to Yemen to continue the investigation on the USS Cole bombing. Frontline cited sources as saying that “O’Neill’s removal from the scene in Yemen may have seriously limited the Cole investigation,” and some have speculated that if Bodine had not blocked O’Neill’s return, the September 11 plot might have been foiled.[3] The chilly relationship between… Read more »
I will ask an Army Captain on Embassy duty at a site that I cannot mention, and ask for his take on this. He will know, but whether or not OPSEC will let him tell me is up in the air.
I follow the Doctrine Man site. He is apparently on staff at the Baghdad embassy. He reported earlier that the word through reliable personal channels was that the rumor was false. But regardless, Marines are not in charge of outside security there or at any embassy.
What gives the story credence is the absence of wounded or dead bad guys. I mean, IF there were Marines present and IF they were armed, then somebody dies c/o the USMC. That’s two too many IFS, though.
The thing is, these “Marine blogs”…can’t find ’em. Nobody can, it seems. I’ve been working my best search-fu and…nothing.
I strongly suspect the way of the Bullshit is strong with this one.
Wouldn’t the details such as that be considered sensitive information and divulging it be considered a breach of security? I don’t know as I’ve never been any kinda operator, nor a part of MSG, but it just seems like the kind of thing you would be prohibited from spouting off about.
Honestly I don’t think marines were working the outside security, because I don’t see marines letting the flag fall into the wrong hands. Maybe I am crazy, but a least for me that is huge point of honor that I would not let happen.
Everything is largely speculative at this point until or unless we know what direction was given by the RSO. I’ve known or known of several Ambassadors and Chiefs of Mission, but have generally seen the RSOs to be pretty competent.
This is not about points of honor. I am all for respecting the flag but in the end its just a piece of cloth that can be replaced. What is important is the ideals behind the flag. Killing someone over a flag is about as ridiculous as killing over a badly made youtube movie. The Marines first duty is to protect any classified equipment and information. Second is to protect embassy staff. The rest is replacable.
I just got a reply from my friend who is US Army, Embassy staff. He responded: “Our Marines are armed.”
I am sure that his brevity was because of OPSEC, but he would not bullshit us.
Point of honor or not, the ROE and operation orders would rule the actions of any Marine I’ve ever known. No matter how much a Marine would want to take to the offensive to protect the flag, orders are orders and they have their priorities.
I’m betting it’s more a case of journalistic bumblefuck than legitimate military FUBAR. Pretty sure that when the Ambassador is out of country, the Deputy Chief of Mission is in charge and probably would have been in close consultation with the RSO and likely the OIC or NCOIC of the Marine Guard Detachment.
The aforementioned paragon of journalistic excellence, who probably got a degree by trading cereal box tops for correspondence courses, likely confused ROE and weapon readiness statuses for “unloaded”.
It’s nice to see that the Pentagon is taking inquiries seriously;
“With or without a weapon, Marines are always armed,” Pentagon spokesman George Little said Thursday afternoon. “I’ve heard nothing to suggest they don’t have ammunition.”
Our buddy, Far Leftist Adam Weinstein came across a statement from the Marine Liaison Office at the House of Representatives which answers the question. The Marines in Egypt did indeed have ammo. I checked the Marine Liaison Office’s website to see if there was a Major Alex Cross (because Alex Cross is a character in some of James Patterson’s novels) and he wasn’t listed, so I called the office and verified that he does work there. So it looks like it was a rumor. There are so few of them on the internet, it seems impossible, I know, but….
Good to hear they weren’t kept from having ammo. It wasn’t too long ago that recently roused MSGs were racing out of a Marine House toward the sound of gunfire, in their underwear and bearing kitchen knifes, all because some ninny at State didn’t want the Marine Houses to have their own armory.
Well, unless there’s some proof otherwise, that settles that in my mind. The Major’s statement only confirms what I had expected.
Load. Of. Shit.
Jonn, having worked with State Department folks, I’m inclined to see some double speak here… It’s the world of not quite saying enough. My take: Yes, the Marines had ammunition (in the vault, which the SD pussies locked). As far as the policy, strongly suspect it’s country by country. I’m also not seeing an armed attack on two former SEALs not resulting in several (dozen) bad guys taking a dirt nap.
Sarah Palin was just on Fox News with Sean Hannity and brought up this very point!?
What the heck does “allowed” to have ammo mean? Either they were locked and loaded or it was in the vault.
I’m with Al T.
@15 Loach said: I am all for respecting the flag but in the end its just a piece of cloth that can be replaced.
Maybe if the flags issued to US embassies in volatile locations like Cairo were made of something that creates an ungodly stench when burned, it wouldn’t happen any more. And by ungodly, I mean worse than the worst thing you have ever smelled in your life, including your breath in the morning. 🙂
sooo I am a bit confused, there have been Americans killed, WE had Marines there!!!, AND only Americans were killed. weather they did or did not decide to defend OUR flag, Americans serving this country do not die alone when we are armed and can fight…. So did we have Marines there. If we did I’m leaning towards the rumor of no amo, & still….
I’m just saying, armed Marines, a destroyed embassy, no dead bad guys, and above all, a flag burned? I’m not buying it, either that or it’s like others have said, those Marines weren’t in charge of outside security. No matter what anyone says, no service member,let alone a Marine left alive would ever let a flag be burnt like that.
re #28
Generally perimeter security is provided by the host nation. Often times, in the event of an attack, the Marine Security contingent will withdraw into the main compound of the embassy and put the staff and classified materials on lockdown while the host nation’s security forces deal with the hostiles. It’s bad policy to have US Marines shooting foreign nationals at embassies. Barring an active shooter inside the secure working spaces of an embassy they’re basically force of last resort/dog and pony show.
k so no dog pony show, … “pull back” ya get all that. Americans died, we have no reports of a scratch… and we say we r sorry. I’m not saying we should bomb them,,, J/S
roll over till next time, y do our top dog keep giving? I don’t want my son to fight anymore. Let him be board…..
A marine ordered to stand down will, till..
You are all pussies and will remain so.
@ 32, great post! Excellent use of language and stunning logic.
Yat–what do you expect from a mouth-breathing inbred Okie?
No offense to mouth-breathing inbred Okies, anyway…
re #30
I have no idea what you’re talking about. If you want to be understood by those attempting to converse with you then I’d recommend English in this particular medium.
4 dead Americans & no other casualties.
#16 reported a response that said “Our marines are armed.”
Two things ot consider:
Our” marines “are” armed.
“Our” meaning the ones at his location, but how does he know about other places, expecially if the Ambassador has issued local orders?
“Are” meanig “now”?
Given the State Department’s focus on careeer advancement versus safety of “they’re just Marines”, do you truly think we should accept any statements at face value?
Given the interactions I had with folks in Beirut back in the day, and in the District of Criminals thereafter, there are very very few State personnel I would trust.
At 23 and others, the Marines are allowed ammo,only when head stateman unlocks the unlocks the vaught and allows the Marine to draw ammo. This is what I understand from their doublespeak.No Wounded or dead(WH) so no ammo for the Marines or the Former SEAL. CYA allthe way.