This Had to Be Kinda Embarrassing . . . .
Dunno if everyone caught this, but apparently late last week the crew of an ANG C17 made a minor error.
Well, maybe “minor error” is a slight understatement. The error consisted of landing on a 3,500’ runway at an airport on an island near Tampa vice the 11,000’ runway at MacDill AFB a few miles away.
I’m guessing that landing certainly made for a high APF day for those onboard.
There was no crash, and the aircraft was apparently not seriously damaged. It was later able – after removing cargo and pax – to fly out and return to operational use.
Kudos to the pilot for managing to land safely on a very short runway. But I’m guessing he or she has a bit of explaining to do. And I’m also guessing his/her career prospects may well have taken a rather sharp downturn, at least in the short-term.
Predictably, the incident has generated a bit of discussion. I’m no aviator, so I’ll pose my questions here:
- Just how bad of a screw-up was this?
- Do the pilot/co-pilot need to start working on their resumes and/or making plans on how to use their GI-bill to get education/training in a different career field?
- Has this incident killed their chances of getting post-service employment in the commercial aviation industry?
Category: Air Force, Military issues
Holy Smokes!
Just how bad of a screw-up was this? In the words of the immortal LTjg Nick “Goose” Bradshaw: “This is not good a good idea”
Do the pilot/co-pilot need to start working on their resumes and/or making plans on how to use their GI-bill to get education/training in a different career field? Quite possibly, in the Navy they would go before a board of their peers and superiors and have to explain their actions. If they were lucky they would get a fairly painful slap on the wrist along with a suspension from flight duties for a set period of time followed by a full check ride to demonstrate that they would not do the stupid again. The other extreme is a removal from flight status completely. Depends on the board decision.
Has this incident killed their chances of getting post-service employment in the commercial aviation industry? No but it certainly doesn’t help and will make it a bit tougher.
Landed at the wrong airport? Prime candidates for commercial airline pilots. 🙂
Maybe the navigator needs a refresher course. 4 degrees variation turned out to be a big deal in this case.
The fact that the CENTCOM commander was on board amplifies the magnitude of the fuck up….
We’ve got a senator (douchebag) in Okiehoma, Jim Inhofe, that landed his aircraft on a taxiway.
His saving grace is that he votes conservative, even though he is a drunk.
Oh come on, we all know they were just testing the short field capabilities of the aircraft, lol.
As an AF weenie I can tell you that without a doubt that pilot’s career is over.
I would say someone will be flying a desk.
Who knows they might get a promotion.
There has been some word that the plane had mechanical or other issues. If that is true, then the flight crew and pilot should come out smelling like a rose. If it is not true, I suspect one and all will be finding themselves on the street pretty quickly. Perhaps Delta is hiring (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ED0sAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uM0EAAAAIBAJ&pg=6715,4142352).
LOL There is already speculation that this was staged by the AF in order to impress the attendees of the upcoming RNC in Tampa Bay :).
They are the Most Interesting Pilots in the World,
“I Dont always land at the wrong airfield, but when I do I make sure there is a VIP on board.”
Ah, come on, folks! If they start firing pilots for landing at the wrong field, especially when they are close to one another, there would shortly be no pilots left. You might or might not be amazed at how often it happens.
Ask any older pilot about landing the first time at El Paso, for instance. Military or civilian.
Of course, in today’s pc world it might be a bigger deal than it was in the past because everyone seems to be out to find “gotchas” whether they are meaningful or not.
All to say that there are a tremendous number of variables, so in answer to your questions, maybe, but probably not. Depending. Had any of the crew ever flown into this airport before that day? How are the runways marked exactly? Are they parallel? Where is the tower? Military or civilian controllers? Among others.
I find it funny that everyone is so quick to blame the pilot. Wouldn’t the navigator be the one in trouble?
flagwaver: Wikipedia says the the C17 has a crew of 3 for cargo operations – pilot, copilot, and loadmaster. Don’t believe it has a dedicated navigator. Could be wrong, though.
I’m just thinking about how many Army officers I knew who did stuff as silly as this…and got PROMOTED!
LOL #11
Unless there was some unforeseen mechanical problem, its safe to say the flight crew are pretty much done. On the other hand a good crew chief/flight engineer upon learning that the plan was going to land at the wrong field would sure as s*&t start ‘looking’ for problems with the bird, unless they would point to themselves of course. Its one thing to protect your pilot/crew if possible, its another to fall on your sword for them.
Also if they were flying the CENTCOM Commander then more then likely they have flown into MacDill on more than one occasion and should darn well know what the field looked liked. Also where the heck were the tower folks? If nothing was declared (i.e. an emergency/mechanical problem)then they should have been screaming bloody murder over the radio to the pilot, when the they don’t see the bird where it should be according to the pilot’s vector/approach updates. Unless things have changed in recent years almost all state side military air fields still have control towers which allow airfield controllers to verify the radar tracks with Mark 1 eyeball.
-Ish
-Ish
I work in an aviation related business. (Helicopter EMS, with some time on a fixed wing medical transport team), and let me put it in army terms: The pilot (PIC) is fucked. What the military aviation community will do to him, I don’t know, but the FAA is going to have his ass. Definitely a suspension, with a letter of reprimand in his file. Possibly revocation of his license, but it depends on his record if he’s had brushed with the FAA before. It doesn’t take much to bring those guys down like a hammer.
Worked with this dude on the Fixed wing EMS bird once, he took off on a closed runway by accident one night responding to a call to fly a patient from somewhere to somewhere. The FAA suspended his license for six weeks, put him on probation for two years and put a letter of reprimand in his file for five years that effectively prevented him from being hired as a Part 135 pilot for that timeframe. The big carriers wouldn’t even call him back.
And as for landing in an emergency, if he didn’t declare one before landing, I’m not too sure that he can claim it was mechanical. And as for not having a navigator, it doesn’t matter. The Pilot in command is responsible for all aviation operations once that aircraft leaves the ground.
I hear JB Hunt, Werner and Schneider National are hiring truck drivers…*cackle*
Unless the military regulations have recently changed, none of the military crewmen aboard the C-17 is required to have an FAA Pilots rating. Their military rating is all that is required. When I graduated from military flight training, if we desired, we could take our military flight records to the local FAA office and get the applicapable civilian FAA ratings. Also, military regulations specifically forbid the military from furnishing aircrew members names to the FAA. Any incident such as this is investigated by the military representative to the FAA but names are not given. In the military a flight plan is filled, crewmembers are listed on the flight plan and a passenger manifest is attached. This info is for the military only. The Pilot in Command of the C-17 will probably be grounded for an undertermined amount of time… Maybe even put before a Flight Evaluation Board to determine the cause and the disipline awarded… Could be anything from temporary grounding to more severe. I would bet that the crew was coming from the Middle East and fatigue was a major factor.
Mmm…Timothy W. Dorsey made Admiral. In 1987 as rookie F-14 pilot he was implicated by investigation board for deliberately shooting down an Air Force RF-4C during a joint exercise (two AF pilots ejected just before aircraft exploded). The then-LT Dorsey faced no criminal charges – he was however permanently grounded/wings clipped. He never apologized or explained himself.
The future Admiral Dorsey (father is retired 3 star ADM) remade himself as a Reserve intelligence officer and Inspector General. The AF pilots who ejected suffered injuries that forced them into premature retirement.
@20 What Norris said. Very well put. A few other comments: Landing at the wrong airport (or on the wrong runway) happens a bit more often than is publicized, especially when the runways of the airports involved are oriented in the same direction. Peter O. Knight’s runway is 4-22, which means that it’s oriented approximately in the directions of 040 and 220 degrees. MacDill’s runway is 5-23, and the actual headings of the runways actually differ by 11 degrees. Knight airport has no control tower. According to the story at http://www2.tbo.com/news/news/2012/jul/20/18/huge-air-force-cargo-plane-lands-at-davis-islands–ar-437276/, they would have been under the control of Tampa Int’l Airport Approach Control until the aircraft reached the general vicinity of MacDill (the story said 10 miles), at which time Tampa would have handed them off to MacDill. Tampa likely would have been following the aircraft on radar til the handoff. They would have been operating on an instrument flight plan up til that point. I would speculate that on being handed off to MacDill, the approach or local controller would have asked the pilot if he had the field in sight. If the pilot said “yes”, and traffic allowed, the controller would have the ability to cancel the aircraft’s instrument flight plan and clear the aircraft to land on visual flight rules from the point of handoff, thereby terminating any requirement to guide and monitor the aircraft on radar. The controllers would not have had any way to know that the pilot had identified the wrong airport until the aircraft was close to landing at Knight. Even on radar, the approach would probably have looked like any other normal approach because the approach path to MacDill would have taken the aircraft over Peter Knight anyway. And I seriously doubt that it would have occurred to any of the controllers to watch the aircraft to ensure it was landing at the wrong airport, and they’d have probably been busy with other traffic (I’m sure that will be part of the investigation). The photo in the story shows the aircraft landing on Runway 22. MacDill is a few miles further… Read more »
At least he wasn’t a Navy F-4 jock who landed on the wrong carrier. AW1 Tim could probably tell you what colorful language was placed on the aircraft prior to leaving. Don’t know how true it is but story has been around since at least the 70’s.
With today’s spending cuts and personel cuts…
It’s getting like it’s 1993 again…
Zero defect Military
One screw up and your toast
IF they get to stay in, and IF they get to keep thier wings, Chances for promotion? Well a snow ball in hell has a better chance.
but then again…they are Officers…so…slap on the wrist…maybee even the butt…then they got to buy rounds at the Officer’s club (if those things even exist anymore).
The Navigator (if he’s enlisted) is through.
From Air Force to “Chair Force” in the blink of an eye….
Into the wild blue yonder we go..or aim high…or whatever it is….
The AF Academy’s QB can at least complete a pass…
Thats what I have been saying for years…
@24 Marty: no navigator on the aircraft. The pilots (and the computers) do the navigating.
Maybe they should stick to running the ball…
The Aircraft Commander is done flying for the Air Force. The other pilot in the seat, and if there was one in the jump seat will have a hard time maintaining their rating as well. The LM doesn’t have to worry about anything official, but enlisted crew members eat their own young, so he will have his brothers giving him the appropriate level of s__t for years. The pilots will have absolutely no problems getting or retaining their civilian certificates from the FAA, nothing you do in uniform ever gets reported to the civilian authorities. Yes, overall, this is a MAJOR screw up. Even without any aircraft damage, there is a very good chance that the C-17 did serious damage to the facilities at the airport, it was approximately three times the maximum weight for the field. The Air Force doesn’t even question most claims of damage done to airport facilities by our aircraft
It’s a big deal. They had no idea where they were. McDill’s runway is 12000′ long and 500′ wide. The pilots deserve some kudos. Mistaking one for the other requires some major league imagination.
Should they ever interview with an airline, the question will be asked if they have ever been involved in an aviation incident. Lying on that question is an interview ender. If they get away with it in the interview and are hired and the truth comes out later…fired!
Having the big boss on board makes it a priceless moment. I don’t know if this will make it to a flight evaluation board, but unless the aircraft commander is truly a “fair haired boy,” he is toast and the copilot’s next assignment will probably be the runway control officer at Shemya AFB, Shemya, Alaska.
@19: Funny, Street.
Find an enlisted scapegoat, blame him… it was probably the load master’s fault.
There was a video associated with this story somewhere… maybe it was mil.com? The spectators’ reactions are priceless.
@ 11…..ROFLMAO! NICE!
After 20+ years in Army Aviation, I can tell you what would happen to Army Pilots. The PIC would be busted from PIC to basic pilot. He would have to completely start from the beginning as if he were a brand new pilot out of flight school. The PC, or Co-Pilot, would likely suffer the same fate.
As mentioned above me, landings at the wrong airport really aren’t as uncommon as one would think, especially when you have multiple airports in a small geographical area.
There is so much time and money invested in these pilots that unless they’ve made screw ups in the past, the first time they screw up tends to slow their promotions for a couple of years in addition to retraining. And you REALLY did not want to be an O-3 or CW2/3/4 getting knocked back to n00b status. The amount of shit you take from all your fellow Aviators can, and will, be beyond verbal hazing. I’ve seen at least two CW3’s make a fuck up like this, get knocked down to new pilot training status and then give up their wings not from the retraining itself, but from all the verbal abuse you take for being in that position in the first place.
This reminds me of the time a Piedmont Airlines 737 landed at Daniel Field in Augusta GA, after taking directions from Hartsfield (the tower at Bush Field in Augusta isn’t manned 24/7). Daniel Field is a municipal airport full of Cessnas and Pipers. The pilot, rumored to be a former Navy aviator, landed the plane safely but not before throwing the passengers around a little. The runway was a tad short for a 737…roughly half the size of Bush Field’s main runway. To get the damn thing out of there, they had to pull out all of the seats, unload most of the fuel and bring in a specially trained pilot just to get it over to Bush Field where they put the plane back in shape and flew it to North Carolina. In 1986, that qualified as “big news” for us. LOL
I was under the impression they removed the mini bar from the cockpit sometime in the late 70’s….
Back when I was AD an AF joke going around about a plane that was supposed to go to Barksdale AFB in Lousiana landed in Mississippi by mistake. When the pilot was told about it, he said,”that’s ok, I never liked Barksdale anyway.