How about some consistency
You’ve all seen how I condemned Marine Sergeant Gary Stein for continuing to run his mouth on his keyboard on his Facebook page and making stupid threats about what he would and wouldn’t do. It was immature and childish for to continue after his commanders told him to stop. Whether you think you have rights or not, you’re just begging for bad things to happen to you. And I’m not going to defend him in any way, shape or form, but the Marines should step back for a minute and think about what they’re doing. According to US News, they’re thinking about serving him a Big Chicken Dinner (a euphemism for a Bad Conduct Discharge);
A Marine who criticized President Barack Obama on his Facebook page has committed misconduct and should be dismissed, a military board recommended late Thursday.
The Marine Corps administrative board made the decision after a daylong hearing at Camp Pendleton for Sgt. Gary Stein.
The board also recommended that Stein be given an other-than-honorable discharge. That would mean Stein would lose his benefits and would not be allowed on any military base.
Now, it’s a board recommendation, so it’s not a foregone conclusion. Stein’s commander gets to make the final decision. Me? I’d like to see a little consistency from the USMC.
Recall, if you will the case of Adam Kokesh who got a General Discharge, because he cussed in writing at an officer who was investigating whether or not he wore his Marine uniform at protest. They let Kokesh continue his college career at the expense of the American taxpayer. And the same goes for their investigation of Liam Madden who represented himself as a veteran while he was “making disloyal statements during a speech in February in New York, when he says he wasn’t wearing his uniform” according to the Washington Post. Neither Kokesh nor Madden lost their benefits.
Now, the Marine Corps wants to take Stein’s benefits away after nine years of service. Now, I was all for them yanking Kokesh’s and Madden’s benefits, but since they didn’t, it hardly seems fair to pull Stein’s plug. I’d hate to think that the Marine Corps judges these things based on who is being criticized.
Category: Iraq Veterans Against the War, Marine Corps, Veterans Issues
Unfortunately, Jonn, politics DOES play a big part in what punishment is handed down.
I’m puzzled that they’re talking about throwing him out. Is that the only punishment the military uses anymore? To get rid of their personnel? Isn’t there some other punishment that could be used for this situation?
I guess its all about who is in the white house I guess…
Now that its all said and done and I have no fear of retribution. FUCK OBAMA! There are only one of two ways to look at the guy: 1) he is an incompetent fucktard 2) he is trying to fuck up this bad. I no longer am a soldier or and NCO so I can say this. If Obama doesn’t like it he can look where he falls into my COC…right below me in it. His administration sucks, he sucks and I resent the fact that he seems to be deliberately trying to get my brothers and sisters killed in Afghanistan. Now unfortunately the Marine in question should know better than to say such things. I wonder if he is openly trying to challenge something, or just hoping that he can later get his discharge changed like some less honorable individuals have in the past
…coughkerrycough…
Pinto more often than not it is the only punishment…gotta downsize.
Good thing that many of us expect no consistency?
It is unacceptable that this is happening. Set a standard, then use it. Ya know – that whole uniform standard thing. Applied to all personnel.
Lacking an ability to do that, at least make some show of wanting to appear to apply standards somewhat equally among all personnel. Seems there is no longer even any effort made toward appearing to have no bias.
Think the OTH discharge is a step better than the BCD. While I tend to agree that 9 years of service shouldn’t just be tossed, the other two examples (Kokesh and Madden) behaved badly. Stein, however, not only behaved badly but disobeyed direct orders to cease and desist and continued to behave badly – that may be what takes him a little further up the punishment tree.
Me, I think they should just fire him – put him out with a General Discharge (think I remember the term correctly) immediately. Although it will probably taked them the full remaining 4 months on his contract to decide what to do.
But see, Dave, it’s not just Kokesh, Stein, etc., who have behaved badly and been given a relatively light punishment. A lot of the folks who shagged ass up to Canada…what happened to most of those fucktards?
Last time I was read the UCMJ, desertion in wartime and firing squad were two phrases that stuck out in my mind.
The public wouldn’t stand for it Sparky, and frankly neither would the majority of those in uniform in my opinion.
Our collective world view has changed drastically where the death penalty is concerned, regardless of party. I personally fall on the side of just booting him out with a BCD, shooting shit heads like him might be personally satisfying, but would definitely be counter productive in the long run.
Appearance of consistency takes a back seat for me when it comes application of the UCMJ. Stein stepped on his crank and should pay the price. People like Kokesh shouldn’t have gotten any benefits beyond a swift kick in the ass on their way out. But if you’re worried about past cases…..take it up with past Administrations and past CM panels.
A minor point about Stein and his potential discharge. This appears to have been an administrative board vice a court-martial. The worst discharge they can recommended is therefore an OTH vice a BCD. The BCD is strictly a punitive discharge rather than an administrative one, and can only be given as part of a sentence resulting from court-martial conviction.
For clarification, there are two classes of General Discharge: Under Honorable Conditions, and Under Other Than Honorable Conditions. They are both administrative discharges, not punitive. BCD’s and Dishonorable discharges are punitive and are awarded through courts martial, not through an administrative review process. He was headed for his EAS anyway, so all he’s getting us a change in the character of his discharge.
@10: Great minds….
#10, correct.
Recall, if you will the case of Adam Kokesh who got a General Discharge, because he cussed in writing at an officer who was investigating whether or not he wore his Marine uniform at protest. They let Kokesh continue his college career at the expense of the American taxpayer.
A general discharge under honorable conditions (in slang, a “general discharge”) deprives you of the GI Bill, just like a general discharge under other than honorable conditions (in slang, OTH). A general discharge is often a great deal for a servicemember in trouble. He keeps medical benefits – sometimes a big deal – but not school money. (An OTH means you probably don’t get medical benefits or school money.)
The article you linked to in the earlier post says that Kokesh could be forced to repay the school money. I would be very surprised to learn that Kokesh actually got his college funded with a general discharge. (Unless he had multiple enlistments and got the benefits based on his earlier enlistments.)
TopGoz: guess I’d have to agree. (smile)
WTF is with the Obama admin and everything having to be settled in “court”? This Stein guy, the guys who gave their chewed up troop “correcting training” ( I guess it’s called hazing now, wtf is that?!?!) for repeatedly falling asleep on watch in Afghanistan. Give me an effin’ break. What happened to the days of taking rank, pay and time (or is extra duty too demeaning these days as well??)
Stein was a dumbass for disobeying orders (as much as I might agree with his views on “that guy” in the WH) but to discharge him and take his bennies after a fair chunk of time in the Corps seems like overkill.
#15 – Decisions like this don’t get made at the Administration level, or anywhere near that high. Commanders take the concept of “unlawful command influence” – in its broadest sense – very seriously. This is, overall, a good thing. That’s why I disagree with the premise of the post, that there ought to be “consistency” across the Marine Corps or any other service as to how misconduct is handled. The cure would be worse than the disease.
Hmmm, I’m doing my best to explain this on a thread on Facebook to people who seem to have their hearts in the right place, but I don’t seem to be getting through. If anyone cares to articulate the issue there better than I could, here is the thread: LINK
Take a stripe, let him finish and keep his benefits. The more punitive route is bullshit. This is Company Grade Article 15 territory, not Courts Martial worthy.
When you’re in uniform, you know the deal about stuff like this. Especially being an NCO. You keep that stuff in the barracks with your peers and away from Officers and your subordinates.
He deserves to lose a stripe for being stupid and not keeping his cakehole shut. What he had to say wasn’t anything special or that isn’t being said by us retired guys on his behalf. He had 4 months to go. He can’t wait 4 months? Don’t try to Drama Queen it up into something it isn’t. He isn’t being oppressed.