Congresswoman sticking her nose in the business of military justice
Marine_7002 sends us the story of one Marine’s exoneration is the hazing case that led to the suicide death of Lance Cpl. Harry Lew. The Marine is Sgt. Benjamin Johns who apparently caught Lew sleeping while on guard duty in Afghanistan and made Lew dig a foxhole to keep him awake. According to Johns, Lew had been caught sleeping on guard duty 4 times in the past (Marine Corps Times link);
The night of April 2, Lew was assigned to watch duty. Johns talked to him beforehand about sleeping, because Lew had already dozed four times in the 10 days since he was assigned to the squad.
Lew fell asleep again, despite assuring Johns he would stay awake.
Capt. Jesse Schweig, the lead prosecutor on the case, argued that Johns ordered Lew to dig the foxhole out of anger. Schweig said Johns took Lew’s sleeping as a personal slight, and berated the lance corporal, contrasting Lew’s actions to the behavior of other Marines.
“The implication is Lew is different — he is no longer a Marine,” Schweig said.
Schweig argued Johns was so angry he didn’t want to wait for Lew to go through the military disciplinary process — called non-judicial punishment — for sleeping because it would take too long.
Speaking as an experienced NCO; it’s called an “on-the-spot-correction”. NCOs do that every minute of every day the world over, in every country…it’s kind of their job. Not everything needs to go to the commander for an Article 15 or Captain’s Mast. It’s not hazing, the UCMJ allows NCOs the authority to make corrections like that.
But, Lew’s aunt who happens to be a congresswoman, Judy Chu, D-CA, says the verdict, which the court arrived at by hearing the evidence and based on the jury’s experience (that’s why we’re tried by a jury of our peers), is “outrageous and a travesty of justice.”
“The not guilty verdict in Sgt. John’s trial twists the knife even further into the wounds that were caused by Harry’s hazing death,” Chu said in a written statement. “This verdict shows that hazing in the military is not only accepted but in fact, imbedded very deeply into its culture, including the jury, which was comprised entirely of fellow Marines.”
Like I said, Johns was tried by a jury of his peers who understood the position in which the young sergeant found himself and he took corrective action, properly. The congresswoman should sit down and STFU, unless she wants me to start making comparisons between her and John Murtha who did pretty much the same thing in regards to the Haditha Marines.
Category: Shitbags
The dear congress critter ought to look up what was done to soldiers in the past who were caught sleeping on guard duty. She does not realize the potential risk this posed to the entire unit. All it would have taken was one Taliban suicide bomber to slip past this sleeping Marine and instead of raising cain about hazing we would have lamenting the loss of life.
Dear Congresswoman,
When you fall asleep at work four times in ten days, you’re likely to be shown the door, or at the very least given some sort of medical evaluation.
You do it ON PATROL, IN A COMBAT ZONE, you end up FUCKING DEAD.
The fact that it happened FOUR times before this action was taken shows that no, it’s not a travesty, unless you count the fact he wasn’t beaten into the ground the SECOND time it happened (the first being a little wall-to-wall counseling.)
We had a guy on my first boat who, to put it nicely, was a supreme fuckup. Never belonged on a boat, but there he was. Guy CONSTANTLY fell asleep on watch–in his case, helmsman/planesman. Yeah–driving a fucking 7000 ton submarine in all sorts of conditions and he’d fucking doze off. It got to the point where the Diving Officer (who sits above and behind the helms and planes stations) would just smack the kid in the head every 10-15 minutes, whether he needed it or not.
After he was told he was going to CO’s Mast for the THIRD time and probably shitcanned off the boat, he ate his .45 while inport on topside watch. Sad? Yup. Sorry? Not really. We’re in a business, be it in combat or at sea, or on a flightline, where ONE fuckup has incredibly bad consequences. We told the command about this kid, they did nothing. He made a decision, just like Lew did. To blame those who would have paid the dearest price for his actions isn’t fair or just either.
JaG, my take is that the congresscritter doesn’t care about the risk to the unit. The Marine was tried and acquitted, which hurt her feelings.
And, I wonder how much the prosecution really had, as the NCIS investigators took statements from those involved without reading them their rights under Article 31, UCMJ? They’ve got one Lance Corporal who pleaded guilty.
You know, thats called Dereliction of Duty, and the United States Marine Corps takes that incredibly seriously. Had this occurred during WW2, they would’ve shot his ass. He was endangering his fellow Marines, disgraced himself and the stripes he wore as a Lance, and I for one, coming from a Marine Infantry family, am not gonna shed a tear that he is gone. Now that unit can get back to closing with and killing the enemy without worrying about if their picket is watching their six during 10% security. As an Army NCO, and having been the Staff Duty NCO for a Civil Affairs Battalion on the final rotation of OIF, I would say that that Lance Corporal got off pretty light just being forced to dig the foxhole. Sleeping on duty is a serious Crash Landing (for what that means, read Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein, yeah, that book!)
It’s not hazing, the UCMJ allows NCOs the authority to make corrections like that.
No, actually, it doesn’t. “Extra miltary instruction” is allowed (technically, the authority is Rule 306(c)(2) of the Rules for Courts-Martial, rather than the UCMJ itself, but no matter). Army-side, the regulations are clear: the extra instruction has to be directly related to the thing being corrected. (Push-ups, flutter-kicks, and “the dying cockroach” are not directly related to the troop’s smart mouth or his lateness to formation. Sorry, they’re just not.)
Yes, I know. “But we did it in basic!” – doesn’t matter. “But we always did it!” – doesn’t matter. I have successfully had (minor) court-martial charges dismissed because the NCO’s decided to order “corrective training” (e.g., solo ruck marches, “volunteering” for extra duty, etc.) that didn’t relate directly to the problems in question (being late for formation). If you want them to do extra duty, you need Article 15. If you want them to do hard labor without confinement (like digging big holes as punishment for sleeping on guard duty), then you need a summary court-martial or better.
I think the law should be different, but it is what it is. Congress could change it. Since the Rules for Courts-Martial are executive orders, so could the President.
Mind you, it’s usually better to accept the low-level unlawful punishments than to mouth off about it. Sore muscles recover a lot faster than a paycheck. When I was a defense counsel, I only made an issue of it when the command tried “both-and” instead of “either-or.”
The Army is dealing with a similar situation right now. Also a Chinese-American Soldier…I really believe that because of the Lew suicide, it has exacerbated the Pvt. Chen situation and these soldier’s will pay for it to make up for the lack of guilt with the Marines. The Army jumped the gun to appease a community organization and the political forces in NYC and brought the charges before the investigation was complete.
In this instance, the errant LCPL directly endangered the lives and welfare of the Marines in his unit, showed cowardice in the face of the enemy, and showed conduct unbecoming a Junior NCO. I for one do not care if the punishment was unauthorized or not. It was appropriate for the situation.
Alberich: Maybe it’s just me – but it seems to me that here LCpl Lew was given an order to improve the survivability of the guard post via preparing a survivable fighting position rather than given extra training. That would seem to be a legit order whether or not Lew had been caught sleeping on guard duty.
It’s also possible that the LCpl Lew was given his choice between digging and explaining to “Top” or the “Old Man” why he was caught asleep on guard duty. If that was the case, my guess was it took Lew all of about 1/2 second to think before saying, “Where’s the shovel?”
Regardless, it’s a moot point. Apparently the GCM panel found Sgt Johns’ order to be valid.
Hondo’s analysis is quite valid. Kid fucked up, punishment was better than going before Top on the matter
The way I heard it the first time was that the fighting position was to be dug in such a manner that it would be hard to sleep in. I dunno, having been an NCO myself that sounds like the corrective action was appropriate.
Either way though, do any of you think that we would have heard a peep about this had Lew NOT been the nephew of a congress critter?
Here’s her contact page:
http://chu.house.gov/connect-with-me/email-judy
Stand by for shot…
Either way though, do any of you think that we would have heard a peep about this had Lew NOT been the nephew of a congress critter?
Oooohhhh!!! OOOOOOHHHH!!!! I know!!!
Hazing?? There’s the problem tight there. This is not hazing. This was not some right of passage, the kid fucked up…ALOT…Frankly, Sgt. Johns gave him more chances than he deserved. If anything Sgt. Johns showed restraint….
This is what I sent her:
Ms. Chu: I am appalled at the lack of understanding and respect you showed for the military justice system with your recent remarks regarding the acquittal of Marine Sergeant Benjamin Johns. It is understandable that you are saddened about the death of your nephew. However, your remarks stating that the verdict was “a travesty of justice” are far and away out of line.
I have every confidence that the military justice system will properly and impartially identify and punish any and all Marines who can be shown, THROUGH THE EVIDENCE (and not because of an emotional attachment to your nephew) to have contributed to your nephew’s death. In Sergeant John’s case, the evidence showed that he did NOT contribute to your nephew’s death. Finding him guilty would have BEEN a travesty of justice in itself, and you are utterly and completely wrong to imply that the jury was biased and unable to come to a proper and objective verdict.
Your bias is evident in your family relationship with LCpl Lew, and I hope you will hold yourself to a much higher (and unbiased) standard in any future comments you may have regarding this matter, or any other matter regarding the military justice system.
Semper Fidelis,
John W. Lawson
CWO-4, USMC (Ret)
Had a slacker in my squad in the ROK, for one of many performance issues he was tasked with giving the platoon a class on fields of fire and fighting positions. He had to work on the training aid the evening prior to the class. It took a while since it was January and the ground was quite frozen. I suppose he could have asked for an Art 15, but this was the least painful of his options. To his credit, that issue did not re-occur.
Well, there is only one thing left to do – name a ship after Judy Chu. After all, isn’t that what we do with congress critters who disparage the Marines (e.g., murtha)?
@14 Marine_7002: Your post caught my eye. You expressed the situation very clearly, and any response you get would be of great interest.
I always find articles like this one interesting. It reminds me of the “stress cards” that the Navy issued back in the 90’s to placate how the public perceived basic training, although what they were and what they were perceived to be were two different things. It seems that non-military personnel don’t understand that there are ways to handle situations which may not “necessarily” be inline with how it “should” be handled according to public opinion.
Back when I was a platoon commander, I would always tell my Marines the same thing when they checked in. Paraphrasing, it was along the lines of how I hated filing paperwork for stupid shit. I’d tell them that I had been in their shoes (was enlisted first) and done my share of troublemaking. Unless the Marine got arrested and I heard about it from up above, I would always rather handle it in-house. God help them if I found out about an issue from my company commander. If a Marine fucked up he would have to deal with his squad leader and platoon sergeant. If it got to me then the Marine knew he was going to get hammered.
The Gunny and I had a very firm understanding. I’d rather not NJP a Marine for just being stupid and as long as it was dealt with appropriately and no one got harmed. I always knew what was going on when a certain Marine would always “volunteer” for extra details or when he would be assigned barracks duty for days on end.
Given the choice, I can guarantee that those young Marines would rather have dealt with their NCOs than with me. Most of them learned their lesson and turned out to be outstanding Marines. Those that didn’t…well they had to deal with me and I got pissed off for filing paperwork for stupid shit.
Not relevant, but interesting; Judy Chu is the former mayor of Monterey Park, site of a shooting last month where two cops fired 10 shots at a guy in a Carl’s Junior parking lot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnvcLvVn4lw
Apparently the shooting caused complaints to the city council because apparently one of the 10 shots missed the guy and that stray bullet “might have hurt someone else.”
@ 18 Brandon B, you sound like my last Plt Ldr, which is a good thing! Lt Byrd’s rule was Crew Chief, Section Leader, Plt Sgt then HIM. If it got to him the poo was gonna hit the fan. I don’t remember anything going past me. Anything I did was fine with him as long as no one died!?
I felt that the “regular Army” had gotten kind of soft. When I was in Iraq, I was attached to a reg Army unit. We had a “cook” who was a bit retarded and they gave him to us for part of our SecFor. He kept falling asleep on the gun while on convoy in the middle of Baghad. His team leader, who was a reservist, told him 3 times to stop falling asleep. the 4th time he gave him some “wall to wall” counseling. If that cook had gone off and killed himself, it would have saved the O2 he was wasting. The same guy would never take a shower or wash his sleeping gear or clothes.
The guys in his room asked me what to do because his lake of cleaning made their room pukish. I suggested just asking him to take a shower etc…and he started to cry.
Some folks are just not built to be in the Army…or Marines.
@21 Had a Soldier like that when I was a Battery Commander. I didn’t interfere when my 1SG made him strip to his skivvies and had his section scrub him with bore brushes and soap under a field shower attached to the gun tube in the center of the gun line. After that the Soldier (or gun crew) made sure he stayed clean just to avoid the embarrassment.
Its so bad now, that I can’t even tell joe to drop and gimme 50 as an on the spot correction. I have to do up a 4856 form on him and talk down to him like a kindergarten teacher. Its obscene!
As for Leu, if he had any sense, he would have considered himself lucky to have only had to dig a fox hole. I would have insisted his happy ass stand courts martial for dereliction of duty and endangerment. If he killed himself then, would the Marines be at fault for the eventual BCD or DD that the little turdlet deserved. As for his auntie…the older I get the more I want to puke around these mambie pambie lefties.
I know that there’s the Macbeth full on Retard Competition…Can we start the Bradley Manning Brigade Competition for these shitbags?
@#16 arby:
You said: “Well, there is only one thing left to do – name a ship after Judy Chu. After all, isn’t that what we do with congress critters who disparage the Marines (e.g., murtha)?”
I’d like to know if our Navy still has any garbage scows that need naming?
#8 Hondo – Agreed, whatever their reasoning was, the panel’s made their decision. If the Marines work like the Army, “not guilty” from a CM means they can’t even chapter him for it now. I expect no one here will be losing sleep over any of that.
I’d personally hate to be stuck arguing that my client just happened to be ordering that necessary work right after the troop got caught doing wrong, but he certainly wasn’t thinking of punishment, dear me, no. But I’m not going to argue with success, either!
Did a little reading…interesting actually….a sentry sleeping on duty can face the firing squad if it directly leads to loss of life…if the little twit fell asleep and allowed an ambush to take place, a courts martial would be able to do to him what he did to him…ironic right? Actually fascinating…Mr Friggin Spock Fascinating!
Just backing up my claim….so add that to the list that this little punk should have answered for, as opposed to his NCO, who in my opinion, was being very generous.
Article 113—Misbehavior of sentinel or lookout
Text.
“Any sentinel or look-out who is found drunk or sleeping upon his post, or leaves it before he is regularly relieved, shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the offense is committed at any other time, by such punishment other than death as a court-martial may direct.”
Elements.
(1) That the accused was posted or on post as a sentinel or lookout;
(2) That the accused was found drunk while on post, was found sleeping while on post, or left post before being regularly relieved. Note: If the offense was committed in time of war or while the accused was receiving special pay under 37 U.S.C. § 310 (hostile fire pay), add the following element
(3) That the offense was committed (in time of war) (while the accused was receiving special pay under 37 U.S.C. § 310).
Hell, in the Roman army, sleeping on post or even being out of armor and sword while in the field meant summary execution.
I’ve watched the Marine Corps get softer and softer on punishment of fuckups and more and more strict on what is considered “hazing,” over the last eight years. I’ve also watched the quality of the force plummet, pretty much in parallel to said softening.
I know its pretty late in the tread to chime in, but let’s face facts, the UCMJ is if anything far more strict on such matters than any civilian court would be. If this had happened in a civilian court the best that the Sergeant would have gotten is assault, and that for berating him. It would most likely be a civil suit. Had he been convicted he could have gotten years in Levenworth, or hard labor.
further, while “corrective action” may seem harsh it is designed to keep him, and everyone around him alive. It is clear that this LCPL should never have been anywhere near the front, and it is also clear that his DI’s failed to weed him out when he first enlisted. This case and the pvt Chen case make it abundantly clear that initial entry training has got to be made more difficult, more rigorous, and longer, so that the chaff don’t slip in with the wheat. We are not in the business of making sure everyone is “actualized” or what have you.
@28 Pete, it seems to me things started going down hill when “wall to wall” counseling was done away with in recruit training. Back in the day, you screwed up, you were gonna catch hell. I wouldn’t trade for anything.
#22, we needed a commander like you…then maybe we’d got more done and not wasted time with dumbstuff, but…too we were in a different sort of branch….
#29, well, what we’re talking about isn’t a civilian offense at all – so you’re right in that sense. But the odds of this leading to years in Leavenworth (or anywhere else) are slim to none. For an enlisted man to get Leavenworth at all, he needs a sentence of 5 years or more. When I’ve seen sentences like that, it’s always for rape, child molesting, homicide, or something like.
Military sentences often come in way below the civilian kind – in part because you generally don’t have mandatory minimum sentences or even “sentencing guidelines.” See this story on child porn sentences…I’ve seen sentences of 3-14 months for the same thing in military court. Hard labor – that is, hard labor without confinement – is actually one of the mildest sentences out there; the maximum you can get is 3 months, and it’s entirely up to your command just how hard it is. (It can end up like extra duty, performed in addition to your regular workday, or they can really force you to work up a sweat, but I almost never met anyone who wouldn’t prefer it to jail time.)